View Full Version : Should Hdb flat owners be allowed to buy pte property n vice versa: Discussion
princess_morbucks
09-05-14, 07:55
"@STcom: Should HDB flat owners be allowed to buy private property? Should private property owners be allowed to buy HDB flats http://t.co/L6IMzV2vLB"
https://upload.facebook.com/TheStraitsTimes/photos/a.10150602946322115.373647.129011692114/10152021221432115/?type=1
Thermofisher
09-05-14, 08:58
Yes! Why not?! Money rules!
pc owners may have the need for bigger space such as more children, take care of parents etc. if they cannot afford to change to bigger pc would have to go for hdb. the current time bar of 30 mths is unreasonable.
pc owners may have the need for bigger space such as more children, take care of parents etc. if they cannot afford to change to bigger pc would have to go for hdb. the current time bar of 30 mths is unreasonable.
you can buy resale HDB, they say
CondoInterested
09-05-14, 10:11
A reply to this piece of 💩 below?
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=21407
Yes! Why not?! Money rules!
then why private pty owners not allowed to buy HDB and must sell off private if they do so?
CondoInterested
09-05-14, 11:10
The question is not why pte cannot buy hdb?
The question should be,
1. For those who sell hdb to buy pte. Why sell hdb to buy pte? Didn't our first PM say don't sell hdb?
2. For those first property is pte. Why bother when you didn't even buy hdb in the first place?
3. For those MTB. Why didn't buy before the law is implemented?
By the way, when the pte no hdb law implemented, MOP has changed from 1 yr to 3 yrs and 5 yrs. Plus BTO 3 yrs to build totals to 8 yrs. Have you think of how much the price moved for pte in 8 yrs?
The question is not why pte cannot buy hdb?
The question should be,
1. For those who sell hdb to buy pte. Why sell hdb to buy pte? Didn't our first PM say don't sell hdb?
2. For those first property is pte. Why bother when you didn't even buy hdb in the first place?
3. For those MTB. Why didn't buy before the law is implemented?
By the way, when the pte no hdb law implemented, MOP has changed from 1 yr to 3 yrs and 5 yrs. Plus BTO 3 yrs to build totals to 8 yrs. Have you think of how much the price moved for pte in 8 yrs?
1. that old man tell u to jump, u ask 'how high?'
2. hdb is unattractive or cannot be an aspiration?
3. why shouldnt there be a law on hdb when there is one on private?
Btw why bto? cannot be resale?
I support the ruling that private property owners should not be allowed to buy HDB though I am affected as if it is allowed many would buy and increase the demand and hence price of BTOs which is not sustainable in this tiny island...no space to built and young families would be out of reach for a home. Spare a thought for the young, they not only have to fight with FT but also have difficulty buying their first homes. In this small island where space is a constraint why keep buying so many property to rent? Is there such a huge demand and are you not encouraging overcrowding?
If rich enough to buy private, should be able to retire either by keeping yr hdb for rental if started with hdb. If started with private then should not use hdb but other private if want rental.
I support the ruling that private property owners should not be allowed to buy HDB though I am affected as if it is allowed many would buy and increase the demand and hence price of BTOs which is not sustainable in this tiny island...no space to built and young families would be out of reach for a home. Spare a thought for the young, they not only have to fight with FT but also have difficulty buying their first homes. In this small island where space is a constraint why keep buying so many property to rent? Is there such a huge demand and are you not encouraging overcrowding?
If rich enough to buy private, should be able to retire either by keeping yr hdb for rental if started with hdb. If started with private then should not use hdb but other private if want rental.
Thanks Mummy. Good views.
Actually private can buy HDB. Sell private home within half year of getting HDB.
Then wait 5 years for flat to MOP. Then buy another private apartment again. This 5 year MOP (occupying HDB without private properties) is what qualifies HDB buyers to buy private apartments. It's already part of the unwritten rule.
Thanks Mummy. Good views.
Actually private can buy HDB. Sell private home within half year of getting HDB.
Then wait 5 years for flat to MOP. Then buy another private apartment again. This 5 year MOP (occupying HDB without private properties) is what qualifies HDB buyers to buy private apartments. It's already part of the unwritten rule.
Normal this subject are from empty vessel and someone who like to seek attention, they normal don't bother to find out the facts and make a lot of noise.
Normal this subject are from empty vessel and someone who like to seek attention, they normal don't bother to find out the facts and make a lot of noise.
Honestly I had a friend who downgraded. She did it so as to really retire.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatPublicScheme?OpenDocument
http://www.np.edu.sg/library/resources/subjectguides/wci/Documents/05.09.10sc.pdf
as long as spore got hdb flat this question will be asked OVER N OVER again...
invigorated
09-05-14, 15:32
Thanks Mummy. Good views.
Actually private can buy HDB. Sell private home within half year of getting HDB.
Then wait 5 years for flat to MOP. Then buy another private apartment again. This 5 year MOP (occupying HDB without private properties) is what qualifies HDB buyers to buy private apartments. It's already part of the unwritten rule.
Very good points made by kelonguni and mummy. The 5 year MOP somewhat levels the field and HDB probably knows that the profiles of both group of buyers are quite different.
If CM bars the purchase of pte by HDB dwellers, prices will go further south.
CondoInterested
09-05-14, 16:31
1. that old man tell u to jump, u ask 'how high?'
2. hdb is unattractive or cannot be an aspiration?
3. why shouldnt there be a law on hdb when there is one on private?
Btw why bto? cannot be resale?
1. Got meh? If have then must be selectively deaf to stupid advice, right?
2. So it's the first property pte buying people's problem and not hdb dwellers' problem, right?
3. Because 8 yrs (bto) or 5 yrs (resale) has level the playing ground, right?
5 yrs (resale), pte also move very far liow.
https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31.0-8/10257556_10202626956008008_2397346487981583254_o.jpg
http://www.2ycapital.blogspot.sg/2012/08/my-first-property-ended-in-loss.html
My first property ended in a loss
As mentioned in my first posting, i will share with you my property investment journey. My first foray into the property market is via the most obvious and common one. The HDB. There weren't any HDB grants during my time and we couldn't afford one near our parents as we have only started working. We couldn't afford the Executive Condo either. My starting pay was only $1,850 per month to be exact. During our time, there were only 3 choices, Woodlands, Jurong or Sengkang. Not much of a choice, so we selected the "cheapest" location in the north zone as Sengkang was much more expensive.
The problem with picking the north zone is that it is very far from our parents' place and once the baby came, we have to move near to the care-givers. In the end, we hardly stayed in the flat there. The problem is that under HDB rules, we cannot buy any property within 5 years and cannot lease it out either. The rules were extremely strict even back then. In the end, we kept it empty for almost 5 years. To top up our stupidity, we spent $40k on renovations.
The picture shows you the various points where we buy our flat. We bought exactly at the peak and sold at the bottom. What "perfect timing"!
We bought the HDB executive flat for $380,000, add another $40,000 on renovations = $420,000. We hardly stayed there. You can see the market was in a doldrums from 2001-2005.
Lesson 1 - Buy a property only if you intend to stay in it or rent it out.
We couldn't stay in it and we couldn't rent it out due to the rules. It was basically a white elephant. We could have 'secretly' rent it out but it was illegal to do so. Having said that, if you own a HDB flat today and is eligible to rent it out, my advice is that you keep the goose that lays the golden egg unless the offer is too compelling and you have better use for the proceeds. The yield from HDB flat is one of the best you can find.
Lesson 2 - Don't buy a property that comes with so many restrictions
The second lesson I learnt was that try to buy a property with less restrictions. The fact that I cannot buy another property or sell within 5 years are restrictions imposed to ensure that I do not abuse the "market subsidy"which i supposedly received when i bought the HDB executive flat.
Lesson 3 - Don't be greedy when buying HDB flat!?
It was very funny to see the reactions when i tell people i lost money from HDB. They basically couldn't believe it. I have to tell you that i was greedy. I thought to myself, "HDB sure can make money if you buy directly from them". I cannot be more wrong. hahaha. I bought the biggest flat available to me instead of 4 or 5 room flats and as you know, executive flat received the lowest "market subsidies"from the government. After 5 years, i decided to sell my flat at a loss and move on but the joke was that there were many unsold units at my flat even after 5 years. At the time when i was selling my flat, HDB was selling the unsold units in my block for between $220k to $280k. It took me more than 10 months to finally find a buyer and the buyer was a PR family and they offered me $295k for my HDB executive flat. But the real joke was HDB writing a letter to me, wanting an explanation from me why i sold my flat for $295k when the valuation was $340k. I gladly replied that i would love to sell it to them for $340k if they are willing to buy. (As a side note, my bro-in-law bought a 4 room flat in Sengkang and after 5 years, sold it for a good profit).
Lesson 4 - Cut loss and move on
By 2005, i have lost enough money from the stock market to know how to cut loss and learn about market cycles. I wanted to free up my CPF to buy into properties at better locations and catch the next property cycle. The fact that I don't even stay there and couldn't rent it out provided the catalyst to do something about it. As you can see, my first foray into the property market is a painful one. Lost at least $100k if i include part of the renovations. Sigh. It was painful lesson which i will never forget but I will treat the $100k as an expensive school fees. There are no better schools to teach you about what life really is. Enjoy the life journey.
http://2ycapital.blogspot.fr/2012/09/dont-sell-your-hdb-flat-if-you-can.html
Don't sell your HDB Flat if you can!
It is interesting for me to make that statement considering that i share with you that my first property purchase ended in a loss.
The times has changed because the rules have changed. Previously, we were unable to rent out the HDB in its entirety and the rules were pretty stringent. However, under the current rules, owners who have fulfilled certain conditions will be able to rent out their flat.
One of my closest relatives have an executive flat and the family shifted back to their parents' place and were renting out their flat for the last 2 years.
Imagine the rental is $2,500 a month (on the low side) x 12 = $30,000. That is a cool $30,000 a year in the pocket. They have bought the flat directly from HDB for much lower than $300,000. Nevertheless, if i use $300,000 as the cost (including interest), the yield is an unbelievable 10% each year! Where on earth can you find such good stream of passive income going into your pocket every month! If i am allowed to buy a HDB flat and rent it out, i will definitely consider it even if the yield is not as high as theirs. :)
As such, if you are in a very enviable situation where you can buy a private property or own one without having to sell your HDB flat, then by all means, make use of this opportunity to create a stream of passive income for yourself. It is one of the highest interest yielding assets around.
My relatives, unfortunately, did not heed my advice. They sold the executive flat for $650,000 in April this year. After they sold, my friendly advice to them was this "Now that you have no position in the market, the greatest difficulty for you is to resist the urge to buy a property."
They now get very excited whenever they read news of HDB flat being sold for $1m or that prices of private properties are not coming down, etc etc. They are now technically "homeless" and are afraid that they will miss the property cycle again. They now go property hunting every weekend and my guess is that they will get into one in the next 6 months.
That goes back to my property beliefs. It is very difficult to time the market and by being vested in one property at any time, you will feel less urge to "chase the market". I am currently vested in one and watching by the sideline, ever ready to get into a second property when the timing is ripe. In the mean time, I will continue to save up.
Happy investing and wish you success in your pursuit of financial freedom. :-)
Those who no need HDB already, should return the hdb to the pool. want to earn passivie income or investment or whatever, go to private.
Proplive123
09-05-14, 17:26
For those who intent to upgrade to PC can do by integrity.
Don't think about by holding your HDB can help to fund your income and support PC purchase.
Too much of back charge from now and future.
invigorated
09-05-14, 17:34
For those who intent to upgrade to PC can do by integrity.
Don't think about by holding your HDB can help to fund your income and support PC purchase.
Too much of back charge from now and future.
I'm puzzled how this has to do with integrity.. some hdb flats are already pricier than condos. It's not as though it's free.
At best, a HDB provides a safety net as it is protected from bankruptcy.
Govt fault again.
population increae so much but infrastructure didnt increase by much.
reduce hdb supply until price go up by so much.
anybody cab post a chart showing hdb construction from 90s to now?
the chart will show little hdb constructed.
Anyway, private cannot buy hdb is a temporary thing. If can buy, the hdb price up somemore and people xomplain more.
when hdb price stabilise, govt have lots of hdb stock, only then private can buy hdb.
Hdb buy private, not going to disturb price of hdb.
private buy hdb, will kacau price of hdb.
phantom_opera
09-05-14, 18:30
from http://www.teoalida.com/singapore/btolist/
2001-2005 22 BTO 12483 units
Estimated average flat size 91.67 sqm
2006 6 BTO 2357 units
Estimated average flat size 82.66 sqm
2007 10 BTO 5488 units
Estimated average flat size 83.23 sqm
2008 12 BTO 7789 units
Estimated average flat size 87.75 sqm
2009 13 BTO 9112 units
Estimated average flat size 80.27 sqm
2010 22 BTO 16023 units
Estimated average flat size 81.34 sqm
2011 39 BTO 25294 units
Estimated average flat size 83.40 sqm
2012 40 BTO 27084 units
Estimated average flat size 85.12 sqm
2013 34 BTO 25215 units
Estimated average flat size 84.95 sqm
2014 24300 units planned
according to http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10221p.nsf/0/d4a0f107613b79944825766200236310/$file/Key%20Statistics.pdf
1996-2000 building # is 157,919 units
:doh:
Wow. Thanks!
from http://www.teoalida.com/singapore/btolist/
2001-2005 22 BTO 12483 units
Estimated average flat size 91.67 sqm
2006 6 BTO 2357 units
Estimated average flat size 82.66 sqm
2007 10 BTO 5488 units
Estimated average flat size 83.23 sqm
2008 12 BTO 7789 units
Estimated average flat size 87.75 sqm
2009 13 BTO 9112 units
Estimated average flat size 80.27 sqm
2010 22 BTO 16023 units
Estimated average flat size 81.34 sqm
2011 39 BTO 25294 units
Estimated average flat size 83.40 sqm
2012 40 BTO 27084 units
Estimated average flat size 85.12 sqm
2013 34 BTO 25215 units
Estimated average flat size 84.95 sqm
2014 24300 units planned
according to http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10221p.nsf/0/d4a0f107613b79944825766200236310/$file/Key%20Statistics.pdf
1996-2000 building # is 157,919 units
:doh:
....
according to http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10221p.nsf/0/d4a0f107613b79944825766200236310/$file/Key%20Statistics.pdf
1996-2000 building # is 157,919 units
:doh:
Thanks for rhe info.
Yes it is :doh
Building hdb also have boom and bust cycle :doh
from http://www.teoalida.com/singapore/btolist/
2001-2005 22 BTO 12483 units
Estimated average flat size 91.67 sqm
2006 6 BTO 2357 units
Estimated average flat size 82.66 sqm
2007 10 BTO 5488 units
Estimated average flat size 83.23 sqm
2008 12 BTO 7789 units
Estimated average flat size 87.75 sqm
2009 13 BTO 9112 units
Estimated average flat size 80.27 sqm
2010 22 BTO 16023 units
Estimated average flat size 81.34 sqm
2011 39 BTO 25294 units
Estimated average flat size 83.40 sqm
2012 40 BTO 27084 units
Estimated average flat size 85.12 sqm
2013 34 BTO 25215 units
Estimated average flat size 84.95 sqm
2014 24300 units planned
according to http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10221p.nsf/0/d4a0f107613b79944825766200236310/$file/Key%20Statistics.pdf
1996-2000 building # is 157,919 units
:doh:
Thanks for that.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31.0-8/902312_10201558229930524_1982722385_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31.0-8/10293693_10202534407014341_1291476269126367145_o.jpg
Value of Gold
https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31.0-8/1599835_10202016248500702_1230443225_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1959829_10202328927717487_1239206489_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10152042_10202328932637610_550403372_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/1795597_10202428797134160_1564115595739607988_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/858840_10202482601719241_4077004730682416184_o.jpg
Govt fault again.
population increae so much but infrastructure didnt increase by much.
reduce hdb supply until price go up by so much.
anybody cab post a chart showing hdb construction from 90s to now?
the chart will show little hdb constructed.
Anyway, private cannot buy hdb is a temporary thing. If can buy, the hdb price up somemore and people xomplain more.
when hdb price stabilise, govt have lots of hdb stock, only then private can buy hdb.
Hdb buy private, not going to disturb price of hdb.
private buy hdb, will kacau price of hdb.
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/market-trends/will-there-be-a-housing-oversupply-in-Singapore-in-2013-2014/
http://www.singaporepropertycycle.com.sg/charts/Singapore-Property-Price-Index-and-Population-to-Housing-Stock-Ratio.jpg
well some say its a Singapore Right to won a HDB. so this cannot be taken away.
well some say its a Singapore Right to won a HDB. so this cannot be taken away.
Don't worry, everyone will have a HDB.
They have to reduce BTO because they are building other things during the period. Construction is part of the GDP when all building project e.g. Hospital, school, Air Base, Port, Infrastructure ....... is carry out at the same time, where to find the worker, material and money.
Don't worry, everyone will have a HDB.
They have to reduce BTO because they are building other things during the period. Construction is part of the GDP when all building project e.g. Hospital, school, Air Base, Port, Infrastructure ....... is carry out at the same time, where to find the worker, material and money.
Construction is one of the backup engine we have to keep the economy and jobs going. take that away u going to see many un happy people in the streets.
but to fuel the construction u need a growing economy if not kau kau reserve to keep the upgrading going in the lao period.
Construction is one of the backup engine we have to keep the economy and jobs going. take that away u going to see many un happy people in the streets.
but to fuel the construction u need a growing economy if not kau kau reserve to keep the upgrading going in the lao period.
1. People will be back in their own country they came from.
2. You don't need to go into reserve, you can sell Bond.
Introduction to Singapore Government Securities (SGS)
Singapore Government Securities (SGS) were initially issued to meet banks' needs for a risk-free asset in their liquid asset portfolios. In 1998, MAS spearheaded efforts to enhance the efficiency and liquidity of the SGS market as part of its strategy to develop Singapore as an international debt hub. This was further refined in May 2000 with the introduction of a focused issuance programme aimed at building large and liquid benchmark bonds, primarily through larger issuance of new SGS bonds and re-openings of existing issues to enlarge the free float and occasional bond purchase programmes to re-channel liquidity from off-the-run issues to benchmark bonds. Since then, the SGS market has grown significantly, making it one of the fastest developing bond markets in Asia.
Unlike many other countries, the Singapore Government does not need to finance its expenditures through the issuance of government bonds as it operates a balanced budget policy and often enjoys budget surpluses. This allows the government to focus on the development of Singapores capital markets instead, and the issuance of SGS serves primarily to:
i. build a liquid SGS market to provide a robust government yield curve for the pricing of private debt securities;
ii. foster the growth of an active secondary market, both for cash transactions and derivatives, to enable efficient risk management; and
iii. encourage issuers and investors, both domestic and international, to participate in the Singapore bond market.
As the fiscal agent of the Singapore Government, MAS is empowered by the Development Loan Act and the Government Securities Act to undertake the issue and management of securities on behalf of the Government.
The amount of SGS issued is authorised by a resolution of Parliament and with the President's concurrence. Each year, MAS seeks approval from the Minister for Finance for the total SGS issuance amount for the new financial year. MAS decides, in consultation with the SGS primary dealers, the timing and amount of individual bond issues.
http://www.sgs.gov.sg/SGS%20Home/The%20SGS%20Market.aspx
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