View Full Version : Roles of MCST/Council
proud owner
14-01-15, 19:26
Dear guru Bros and Sis,
With respect to Strata Titles, I have the following questions :
1. What is the role of MCST ?
2. What is the purpose of the residents' council ?
in my condo, the council has absolute power. The condo manager is a mere muppet. He does whatever the council tells him.
he knows nothing about what the council is thinking or planning to do.
Where residents email the council, they do not reply at all. Simply ignore anything and everything that they are not interested in or not beneficial to them personally.
When residents ask the condo manager about their emails, the manager can only say : I really don't know, if they don't reply nothing I can do ... when I ask the council members, they tell me ,,, YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW. etc
Shouldn't the council be People person ?
Shouldn't the council be doing things that improves the value of the condo ? or make living there better ?
Regulators
14-01-15, 19:42
Vote the chairman out
proud owner
14-01-15, 19:51
Vote the chairman out
unfortunately, 75 pct of the residents are tenants and not eligible to vote.
in fact they kind of elected themselves and formed the new council in Nov 2014.
will have to wait till Nov 2015 before we can vote him out.
Wah, your council acts like KINGs! :crushed:
Dear guru Bros and Sis,
With respect to Strata Titles, I have the following questions :
1. What is the role of MCST ?
2. What is the purpose of the residents' council ?
in my condo, the council has absolute power. The condo manager is a mere muppet. He does whatever the council tells him.
he knows nothing about what the council is thinking or planning to do.
Where residents email the council, they do not reply at all. Simply ignore anything and everything that they are not interested in or not beneficial to them personally.
When residents ask the condo manager about their emails, the manager can only say : I really don't know, if they don't reply nothing I can do ... when I ask the council members, they tell me ,,, YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW. etc
Shouldn't the council be People person ?
Shouldn't the council be doing things that improves the value of the condo ? or make living there better ?
Is this a Chairman problem or is this a whole council problem (i.e. whole council are kaki of the Chairman)?
Knowing this will make a lot of difference.........
They can't possibly have voted themselves in without convening an AGM.
Yours a newly TOP condo and a newly formed MCST?
unfortunately, 75 pct of the residents are tenants and not eligible to vote.
in fact they kind of elected themselves and formed the new council in Nov 2014.
will have to wait till Nov 2015 before we can vote him out.
proud owner
14-01-15, 21:32
Is this a Chairman problem or is this a whole council problem (i.e. whole council are kaki of the Chairman)?
Knowing this will make a lot of difference.........
They can't possibly have voted themselves in without convening an AGM.
Yours a newly TOP condo and a newly formed MCST?
I am new to this condo ... but the condo is old ... in D10...
The chairman is the problem .... he sort of gathered his gang and nominated themselves, got in basically becos there was no others keen ...
He dictates all decisions ... the members are his friends
The worst part is the condo manager ... within 6 mths changed 3 managers all cannot tahan him ...
so I am hoping to find out from everyone here ... the real roles of council members... maybe I will go Strata board and report their wrong doings
Ok, are you referring to the condo called "Pxxx Sxxxx"?
When you want to go Strata Title Board, you need to have concrete evidence of wrong-doing, otherwise you will be regarded as the problem instead, especially they have so many pointing fingers at you and you are the only one defending yourself, it become a case of their words (so many mouths in unison) against your words (you are alone)!
Most importantly, do your neighbours (owners) think that they are the problem?
Your best bet is to get sufficient support from other owners to vote them out in the AGM.
In fact, you don't even need to wait till next AGM. If you can get support from 20% votes in your estate, you can request to convene an EGM to vote them out. However, doing so may "beat the bush and alert the snake". They will be alerted and come with more supporting proxy votes during the EGM. Wait till next AGM to vote them out and catch them off-guard is better.
As to your question on role of MCST council members, yes, Condo Manager is supposed to report to MCST council, and council makes the final decision (not Condo Manager).
I am new to this condo ... but the condo is old ... in D10...
The chairman is the problem .... he sort of gathered his gang and nominated themselves, got in basically becos there was no others keen ...
He dictates all decisions ... the members are his friends
The worst part is the condo manager ... within 6 mths changed 3 managers all cannot tahan him ...
so I am hoping to find out from everyone here ... the real roles of council members... maybe I will go Strata board and report their wrong doings
proud owner
16-01-15, 21:02
Ok, are you referring to the condo called "Pxxx Sxxxx"?
When you want to go Strata Title Board, you need to have concrete evidence of wrong-doing, otherwise you will be regarded as the problem instead, especially they have so many pointing fingers at you and you are the only one defending yourself, it become a case of their words (so many mouths in unison) against your words (you are alone)!
Most importantly, do your neighbours (owners) think that they are the problem?
Your best bet is to get sufficient support from other owners to vote them out in the AGM.
In fact, you don't even need to wait till next AGM. If you can get support from 20% votes in your estate, you can request to convene an EGM to vote them out. However, doing so may "beat the bush and alert the snake". They will be alerted and come with more supporting proxy votes during the EGM. Wait till next AGM to vote them out and catch them off-guard is better.
As to your question on role of MCST council members, yes, Condo Manager is supposed to report to MCST council, and council makes the final decision (not Condo Manager).
Not so easy.
the problem is about 75 % of the residents are tenants ... very difficult to even find or contact the owners ... only MCST has their contact details ... so very tough to gather the required % to call for EGM
Regulators
16-01-15, 22:22
This kind of situation is the most problematic. The only way is to gather an interest group of owners to put pressure. Property agencies have a way to get the contact details of owners of individual units including their alternative contact addresses even if they are not staying at the address, not sure if you can engage the help of some agent. The reason why I know this is because I received offers by agents to sell a condo i wasnt living in at a different address I was putting up.
Not so easy.
the problem is about 75 % of the residents are tenants ... very difficult to even find or contact the owners ... only MCST has their contact details ... so very tough to gather the required % to call for EGM
If you really want to, you could:
1) raise valid and serious issues about the estate, put it in black-and-white (e.g. email) to MA. Ensure that MA raise to MC (ask MA to forward such email evidence to you).
2) See whether these issues get addressed by the MC. Make sure that the MA point fingers to MC (so that MC cannot have excuse saying it is the MA that is not trying to resolve the issue, although you know it is because MC not giving instruction/permission to MA to resolve the issue).
3) If not addressed, then raised again.
4) After 6 months or more, issues not resolved, and MCST shows no effort to resolve, then with all evidence you have on hand, you can raise to Strata Title Board.
However, if your estate has been very well managed, above won't work because there is no excuse for you to raise to Strata Title Board........
The real issue, being the Chairman is in cohort with majority of council members, you will probably never be able to prove that....
Not so easy.
the problem is about 75 % of the residents are tenants ... very difficult to even find or contact the owners ... only MCST has their contact details ... so very tough to gather the required % to call for EGM
I have been in MC for 4 years now. It is not an easy job (no pay and lots of work).
So the best way for you is to JOIN the MC yourself, and then you can influence.
By the way, ANY owner can request to attend the MC meeting (but cannot speak unless MC allows you to speak). You can observe a few times and then request to speak.
http://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf
darkseed73
20-01-15, 10:49
Why don't u tell us what sorts of "wrong doing"?
If there is no complains except from u then maybe u should "when in rome, do as the romans do"
While you may like to think that all MC members volunteer to work free for the estate and are honourable, this is not true for all.
I know of cases where some people want to be in the MC because of self-interests and kick-backs to their business associates, friends and family members etc and in turn those people will do the same in their own MCSTs and reciprocate. They are able to do so when most of their Kakis are the MC, supporting each other (as the "majority"), and they are hostile and/or try to dissuade other people joining the MC, and make things difficult for the other MC members who are not in their gang in the hope that they will leave the MC so that they have full say on what they want to do with contracts, who to give to etc and there is nobody who will get more information and hence able to start "digging" and expose on them.... Very often, such MCs will always try to restrict the number of MC members that can be elected to a very small number so that they can have majority control and say over how the estate will be run, including awarding of contracts etc, and they will manipulate the Estate Manager to become their puppets (after all the EM have to take order from MC)......
If everybody in this world is so "noble", there will be no war, no discrimination, no self-profiteering, no administering of changes/policies/rules to benefit mostly themselves to the detriment of the majority etc, everybody can live a reasonably stress-free and happy life with no monetary worry as long as they are willing to work (and not work so hard and still don't get paid enough for a decent living) etc................
I have been in MC for 4 years now. It is not an easy job (no pay and lots of work).
So the best way for you is to JOIN the MC yourself, and then you can influence.
By the way, ANY owner can request to attend the MC meeting (but cannot speak unless MC allows you to speak). You can observe a few times and then request to speak.
http://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf
The accounting personnel of the MA of a condo I owned had made mistake in payments (over-payments of a few thousand dollars), leading to losses to the condo estate. The MC of our estate tried to request the MA to shoulder the responsibility for the losses but the MA had since resigned and ignoring our request for them to bear responsible. Anybody here know any cheap and effective way to proceed from here (short of engaging lawyer to sue them for the money)?
Can such cases be brought to Strata Title Board?
Any cheap way other than engaging lawyer to sue them?
I believe they think that a few thousand dollars is not a big enough figure for us to engage lawyer (since legal fees will be as much if not more than the amount we are trying to pursue), hence the nonchalant attitude (even though we have evidence of their oversight).
Singapore has laws to regulate the professional conduct of estate agents, MCST council members, and soon shop retailers etc, yet no law to regulate the professional conduct of Managing Agents??? What a big cock-up! Is the MND sleeping???
The accounting personnel of the MA of a condo I owned had made mistake in payments (over-payments of a few thousand dollars), leading to losses to the condo estate. The MC of our estate tried to request the MA to shoulder the responsibility for the losses but the MA had since resigned and ignoring our request for them to bear responsible. Anybody here know any cheap and effective way to proceed from here (short of engaging lawyer to sue them for the money)?
Can such cases be brought to Strata Title Board?
Any cheap way other than engaging lawyer to sue them?
I believe they think that a few thousand dollars is not a big enough figure for us to engage lawyer (since legal fees will be as much if not more than the amount we are trying to pursue), hence the nonchalant attitude (even though we have evidence of their oversight).
Singapore has laws to regulate the professional conduct of estate agents, MCST council members, and soon shop retailers etc, yet no law to regulate the professional conduct of Managing Agents??? What a big cock-up! Is the MND sleeping???
If the over payment amounts to misappropriation of funds or cheating, then should report to Police.
While you may like to think that all MC members volunteer to work free for the estate and are honourable, this is not true for all.
I know of cases where some people want to be in the MC because of self-interests and kick-backs to their business associates, friends and family members etc and in turn those people will do the same in their own MCSTs and reciprocate. They are able to do so when most of their Kakis are the MC, supporting each other (as the "majority"), and they are hostile and/or try to dissuade other people joining the MC, and make things difficult for the other MC members who are not in their gang in the hope that they will leave the MC so that they have full say on what they want to do with contracts, who to give to etc and there is nobody who will get more information and hence able to start "digging" and expose on them.... Very often, such MCs will always try to restrict the number of MC members that can be elected to a very small number so that they can have majority control and say over how the estate will be run, including awarding of contracts etc, and they will manipulate the Estate Manager to become their puppets (after all the EM have to take order from MC)......
If everybody in this world is so "noble", there will be no war, no discrimination, no self-profiteering, no administering of changes/policies/rules to benefit mostly themselves to the detriment of the majority etc, everybody can live a reasonably stress-free and happy life with no monetary worry as long as they are willing to work (and not work so hard and still don't get paid enough for a decent living) etc................
Its not fair to generalise. I have been a member of MC for many years and my main objective is to ensure that the MC does not spend funds extravagantly and end up increasing Maintenance charge. Many of my friends who serve in MC are also serving for the same reason. The secondary objective is to ensure peace and quiet and proper maintenance of the condo. Whilst there bound to be bad hats in every society, there are also equally high number of honest people around.
I am not saying all MC members are like that, but just that there are some that are like that (and enough to give bad reputation to all). I am giving examples of how to spot these people and sniff them out, as proud owner may have just encountered such people in his condo...............
Its not fair to generalise. I have been a member of MC for many years and my main objective is to ensure that the MC does not spend funds extravagantly and end up increasing Maintenance charge. Many of my friends who serve in MC are also serving for the same reason. The secondary objective is to ensure peace and quiet and proper maintenance of the condo. Whilst there bound to be bad hats in every society, there are also equally high number of honest people around.
As we don't have evidence as what you suggested, we could only treat it as an over-sight on the MA's accounting personnel BUT the MA should be responsible for their staff's over-sight...
If the over payment amounts to misappropriation of funds or cheating, then should report to Police.
Can such cases be brought to Strata Title Board?
Any cheap way other than engaging lawyer to sue them?
I believe they think that a few thousand dollars is not a big enough figure for us to engage lawyer (since legal fees will be as much if not more than the amount we are trying to pursue), hence the nonchalant attitude (even though we have evidence of their oversight).
=======================================================================================
There are many "cheap" ways:
1. Find out whether the MA is part of an MA association. If yes, tell them you are going to call the Association;
2. Tell them you are going to call BCA (and actually call BCA to get an officer's number and e-mail);
3. Tell them you are going to call their bank;
4. Stand ready to take legal action (because when you win, the legal fees will be likely paid by the MA);
(A lawyer's demand letter can start as low as hundred over dollars -demand letter has no court involved).
In short, if you have done your home work and take things seriously, they normally will take you seriously and the issue will be resolved faster than you could imagine.
Thanks,
As we don't have evidence as what you suggested, we could only treat it as an over-sight on the MA's accounting personnel BUT the MA should be responsible for their staff's over-sight...
MC office bearers are the ones to sign the cheques, how can over payment be possible?
We are rejecting cheques almost every month due to LDs (Liquidation Damage) are not sufficiently deducted.
Please remember MCs hold ultimate responsibility (regardless of the fact they are not paid). MA is just agent.
BCA will go after MC office bears (and then all MC members.) if things go badly wrong.
Very often, such MCs will always try to restrict the number of MC members
MC numbers are decided in AGM. How can they control the numbers if you have already done your "ground work" to get enough people to attend the AGM?
Singapore has laws to regulate the professional conduct of estate agents, MCST council members, and soon shop retailers etc, yet no law to regulate the professional conduct of Managing Agents??? What a big cock-up! Is the MND sleeping???
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22d5027d68-dd92-4311-a3bf-07692781cb44%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0
Building Maintenance and Strata Management Act
It controls MA as well.
“managing agent” means a managing agent appointed under this Act
REGULATIONS have more details.
http://www.bca.gov.sg/publications/BMSM/BM_strata_mgt_reg.html
The BMSMA has no "teeth" on MAs (unlike those on MC members), and Strata Title Board do not deal with MAs conduct that has nothing to do with Maintenance of estate......... So you see, loopholes everywhere! MND is sleeping is it? Laws to regulate conducts of MAs have been touted many years ago but it seems to die off after raising to URA/MND there................
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22d5027d68-dd92-4311-a3bf-07692781cb44%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0
Building Maintenance and Strata Management Act
It controls MA as well.
“managing agent” means a managing agent appointed under this Act
Generally, people who have no ulterior motives will never think about "getting enough people" to attend AGM to support them.
It is only those people who have ulterior motives that will do so, ask for proxy from other owners of the estate, then turn up in AGM to demand to restrict number of council members to the number they put up together and kick every other people who wanted to be elected as council members out so that they control the whole MC and do whatever they want thereafter. When people do such things, clear as sky what their motives are isn't it? :fox:
MC numbers are decided in AGM. How can they control the numbers if you have already done your "ground work" to get enough people to attend the AGM?
Not so simple because they are cunning foxes, they know the laws and the costs to various venues to pursue much better than we do.
The current EM of the new MA probably trying to act blur, don't know how to go forward etc etc, because they do not offend the other MA company, which is a VERY BIG BOY MA company (a local name) in Singapore. Think about it, a VERY BIG BOY local MA company whose boss do not even want to bear responsibility for their own staff's over-sight over a few thousand dollars!
1. Find out whether the MA is part of an MA association. If yes, tell them you are going to call the Association;
Thanks. Will tell MC to check this out.
2. Tell them you are going to call BCA (and actually call BCA to get an officer's number and e-mail);
No use, They simply ask you to consult lawyer... Wow! What a useless bunch of people there! They formulate the BMSMA without law with teeth to bite MA!
3. Tell them you are going to call their bank;
How? Don't think bank will care, none of their concern right?
4. Stand ready to take legal action (because when you win, the legal fees will be likely paid by the MA);
(A lawyer's demand letter can start as low as hundred over dollars -demand letter has no court involved).
Legal way is not cost-effective, because few people going to sue for a few thousand dollars and pay a few thousand dollars or even more of legal fees right? We are not sure whether we can recover the legal costs from them.
It is actually partly our current MA fault because if they didn't burst the 1 year deadline, small claim court is the cheapest and easiest solution to resolve. Not sure whether our current EM from current MA is trying to shield the other party that is why purposely drag and drag with no action for more than 1 year?
Can such cases be brought to Strata Title Board?
Any cheap way other than engaging lawyer to sue them?
I believe they think that a few thousand dollars is not a big enough figure for us to engage lawyer (since legal fees will be as much if not more than the amount we are trying to pursue), hence the nonchalant attitude (even though we have evidence of their oversight).
=======================================================================================
There are many "cheap" ways:
1. Find out whether the MA is part of an MA association. If yes, tell them you are going to call the Association;
2. Tell them you are going to call BCA (and actually call BCA to get an officer's number and e-mail);
3. Tell them you are going to call their bank;
4. Stand ready to take legal action (because when you win, the legal fees will be likely paid by the MA);
(A lawyer's demand letter can start as low as hundred over dollars -demand letter has no court involved).
In short, if you have done your home work and take things seriously, they normally will take you seriously and the issue will be resolved faster than you could imagine.
Thanks,
proud owner
21-01-15, 21:04
Why don't u tell us what sorts of "wrong doing"?
If there is no complains except from u then maybe u should "when in rome, do as the romans do"
the said condo has retail units... all are privately owned except for 1 unit which the developer kept since the condo was built. They wanted it to be managed by the MCST, for operators to sell drinks/food for the residents. Sort of a club house kind of thing, where pool and gym and function room users can purchase snacks, drinks etc.
Its an old condo.
for the past 20 over years, there had been at least 3 different operators.
After the last operator left in 2013, it has been left vacant. The unit is equipped with 1 and 3Phase power supply.
My neighbor approached the chairman of the council then and proposed to run a café/bakery.
The council was very much in favor of it. and a TA was granted to him sometime in April 2014.
He then applied to NEA for a food license and was told to submit all relevant documents.
All went ok. NEA then told him that he could start his renovation. After which NEA would need to inspect the unit before the license can be issued.
All this while, he liased with the council via email and through the condo manager.
He began his renovation, approved by the MCST. Spent $10k.
He also purchased coffee machine, oven, fridge, etc ... another $20k
in July when he tried to 'activate' the 3phase power, he was told by Singapore power (SP) that it could not be used. The original 3phase cable had been laid some 20 years ago and never been used. Past operators only used 1 phase power. SP said a new cable had to be laid. This would cost at least another $8k.
(Although the TA stated that the unit is leased 'As it is' condition, it is still the MCST's responsibility to ensure that everything under the MCST to be in 'working conditions')
After 2 mths of back and forth discussion with Sp to find a solutions, finally SP suggested that he could tap the 3phase supply from another source which is used to run the pool and gym.
By which time it was Nov 2014 and a NEW COUNCIL WAS FORMED.
My neighbor then approached the new council to seek then cooperation and help to allow him to tap the 3phase supply.
This is when everything turns ugly.
The new chairman is a veteran. He has lived there from day 1.
He has been members and chairman on several terms over the years.
He questioned my neighbor why the need to have 3 phase when the previous operators needed only 1 phase.
he explained that past operators sold drinks, and used microwave to heat up precooked, prepacked food. Hence household appliances was enough.
Since he plans to run a proper café, with freshly baked food, he purchased proper commercial equipment and these need 3phase power.
The chairman (Lets name him CCB), then said to my neighbor (V for victim) that the TA stated clearly 'As IT IS". hence CCB is not willing to allow V to tap the 3phase power.
V explained that the 3phase cable was originally there , just it is now confirmed that it cannot be used.
V said that he wants to bring fresh food to the residents and not microwave pre-cooked food. He asked CCB " don't you want better quality food for the people of this condo?"
CCB replied " NO"
V then pressed for an answer, CCb said the council would discuss and "get back to you"
V asked when ? 1 wk ? 2wk ?
CCB said " we will get back to you"
V said that this case has dragged for over 3 mths and he needed an answer soon. V asked again for a time frame.
CCB said again " we will get back to you"
2 weeks passed. V didn't hear from the mcst.
V asked the condo manager LL (Lan lan) if the council had given any reply yet. LL said " I really don't know"
"I am so sick and tired of handling this council. They don't tell me anything. when I ask CCB if he has replied to you, he told me " YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW"
What an A hole right ?
V then went to talk to the equipment suppliers and managed to Downgrade his appliances that run on 1 phase.
V then email the mcst that he was not waiting any longer for a reply and that he had downgraded his equipment and that he would apply to NEA for an inspection and then start operation.
The following day, V received an email from the MCST asking him to return the Key to the café.
V refused, explaining that as a tenant he has the right to hold on to the key. ( in fact after the renovation V has left 1 set of key with the condo manager)
2 days later, V received another email from the mcst.
it says " The TA is not void as you have failed to comply with the terms and conditions"
V wrote back to ask which T and C in particular has he not complied with.
the reply was " it is self explainatory"
till now V has no idea what went wrong.
The condo manager also don't know. This is why I name her LL ( lan lan ...as a condo manager , the council keeps everything from her)
A lawyer friend advised V to sent an OBJECTION email to the council. stating roughly that if they try to stop him from operating even with a legal TA, he will take legal action against the MCST.
The council simply ignored and still wouldn't give a straight answer.
In Jan, V received a registered letter from ACRA, that someone has complained that he is operating legally on the registered address.
V submitted the TA , PUB bills etc to ACRA to prove that he is the legal tenant.
ACRA 'kind of' accepted these documents but said, the complainant was the MCST. and if the mcst denies you, there is nothing acra can do but to ask V to de-register his business'.
after spending 10k on renovation and 20k on equipment, V is not allowed to operate. In fact he is being kicked out.
The mcst basically got a 20yr unit renovated free of charge...
This is why I ask :
what is the role of council members ?
shouldn't they be doing everything to make the condo facilities better ? instead of trying to stop V from doing somethingfor the residents?
throughout this period Nov to Jan the council has not replied to V which CCB said he would, nor reply to any of V's queries.
According to V, during the renovation period, many residents approached him to ask when the café will be up and running.
almost 75% of the residents are expat tenants, they use the pool, gym, everyday ... and they want to be able to buy some snacks, or refreshment..
This is the actual story.
So bros and sis, apart from taking legal action, what can V do ?
wah lau bro ... the CCB really CCB ... he is out to make your friend live difficult.
Anyone know CCB personally?
Worse case scenario, sue MCST for lost of opportunity for willfully terminating the contract ...
The CCB really CCB!
Questions:
1) Has your neighbour started operating the cafe?
2) If not, what is stopping him from operating?
3) Is your neighbour paying the rental?
4) With proper TA and rental paid, there is no reason the MCST can back out of what they signed and agreed to. This is like a landlord trying to take back the premise after signing a TA to the tenant.
5) ACRA has no right nor authority to meddle in this issue right? If they ask your neighbour to de-register his business, he should ask ACRA to put it in black-and-white.
6) This is a typical case of a Chairman thinking he is a big fxxk! :pig:
You neighbour should not talk but ask for written explanations in black-and-white from MCST, and make sure signed by somebody in the MC who will be held accountable (not the Estate Manager). Otherwise, can just ignore MCST until they give your neighbour in legal letter.
7) Oh yes, if Chairman said is MCST decision to kick your friend out, your neighbour should ask them to put their decision in the Council meeting minutes. Then get a copy of the meeting minutes and seek legal advice.
the said condo has retail units... all are privately owned except for 1 unit which the developer kept since the condo was built. They wanted it to be managed by the MCST, for operators to sell drinks/food for the residents. Sort of a club house kind of thing, where pool and gym and function room users can purchase snacks, drinks etc.
Its an old condo.
for the past 20 over years, there had been at least 3 different operators.
After the last operator left in 2013, it has been left vacant. The unit is equipped with 1 and 3Phase power supply.
My neighbor approached the chairman of the council then and proposed to run a café/bakery.
The council was very much in favor of it. and a TA was granted to him sometime in April 2014.
He then applied to NEA for a food license and was told to submit all relevant documents.
All went ok. NEA then told him that he could start his renovation. After which NEA would need to inspect the unit before the license can be issued.
All this while, he liased with the council via email and through the condo manager.
He began his renovation, approved by the MCST. Spent $10k.
He also purchased coffee machine, oven, fridge, etc ... another $20k
in July when he tried to 'activate' the 3phase power, he was told by Singapore power (SP) that it could not be used. The original 3phase cable had been laid some 20 years ago and never been used. Past operators only used 1 phase power. SP said a new cable had to be laid. This would cost at least another $8k.
(Although the TA stated that the unit is leased 'As it is' condition, it is still the MCST's responsibility to ensure that everything under the MCST to be in 'working conditions')
After 2 mths of back and forth discussion with Sp to find a solutions, finally SP suggested that he could tap the 3phase supply from another source which is used to run the pool and gym.
By which time it was Nov 2014 and a NEW COUNCIL WAS FORMED.
My neighbor then approached the new council to seek then cooperation and help to allow him to tap the 3phase supply.
This is when everything turns ugly.
The new chairman is a veteran. He has lived there from day 1.
He has been members and chairman on several terms over the years.
He questioned my neighbor why the need to have 3 phase when the previous operators needed only 1 phase.
he explained that past operators sold drinks, and used microwave to heat up precooked, prepacked food. Hence household appliances was enough.
Since he plans to run a proper café, with freshly baked food, he purchased proper commercial equipment and these need 3phase power.
The chairman (Lets name him CCB), then said to my neighbor (V for victim) that the TA stated clearly 'As IT IS". hence CCB is not willing to allow V to tap the 3phase power.
V explained that the 3phase cable was originally there , just it is now confirmed that it cannot be used.
V said that he wants to bring fresh food to the residents and not microwave pre-cooked food. He asked CCB " don't you want better quality food for the people of this condo?"
CCB replied " NO"
V then pressed for an answer, CCb said the council would discuss and "get back to you"
V asked when ? 1 wk ? 2wk ?
CCB said " we will get back to you"
V said that this case has dragged for over 3 mths and he needed an answer soon. V asked again for a time frame.
CCB said again " we will get back to you"
2 weeks passed. V didn't hear from the mcst.
V asked the condo manager LL (Lan lan) if the council had given any reply yet. LL said " I really don't know"
"I am so sick and tired of handling this council. They don't tell me anything. when I ask CCB if he has replied to you, he told me " YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW"
What an A hole right ?
V then went to talk to the equipment suppliers and managed to Downgrade his appliances that run on 1 phase.
V then email the mcst that he was not waiting any longer for a reply and that he had downgraded his equipment and that he would apply to NEA for an inspection and then start operation.
The following day, V received an email from the MCST asking him to return the Key to the café.
V refused, explaining that as a tenant he has the right to hold on to the key. ( in fact after the renovation V has left 1 set of key with the condo manager)
2 days later, V received another email from the mcst.
it says " The TA is not void as you have failed to comply with the terms and conditions"
V wrote back to ask which T and C in particular has he not complied with.
the reply was " it is self explainatory"
till now V has no idea what went wrong.
The condo manager also don't know. This is why I name her LL ( lan lan ...as a condo manager , the council keeps everything from her)
A lawyer friend advised V to sent an OBJECTION email to the council. stating roughly that if they try to stop him from operating even with a legal TA, he will take legal action against the MCST.
The council simply ignored and still wouldn't give a straight answer.
In Jan, V received a registered letter from ACRA, that someone has complained that he is operating legally on the registered address.
V submitted the TA , PUB bills etc to ACRA to prove that he is the legal tenant.
ACRA 'kind of' accepted these documents but said, the complainant was the MCST. and if the mcst denies you, there is nothing acra can do but to ask V to de-register his business'.
after spending 10k on renovation and 20k on equipment, V is not allowed to operate. In fact he is being kicked out.
The mcst basically got a 20yr unit renovated free of charge...
This is why I ask :
what is the role of council members ?
shouldn't they be doing everything to make the condo facilities better ? instead of trying to stop V from doing somethingfor the residents?
throughout this period Nov to Jan the council has not replied to V which CCB said he would, nor reply to any of V's queries.
According to V, during the renovation period, many residents approached him to ask when the café will be up and running.
almost 75% of the residents are expat tenants, they use the pool, gym, everyday ... and they want to be able to buy some snacks, or refreshment..
This is the actual story.
So bros and sis, apart from taking legal action, what can V do ?
proud owner
21-01-15, 23:58
Hi Teddybear ...
the answers are below your questions ..
Questions:
1) Has your neighbour started operating the cafe?
NO.
The procedure is to do reno, then get NEA approval , then NEA will issue licence, then he can start operation.
He is stucked at the final part when the 3phase power could not be activated.
Then the CCB can into the council and the saga began
2) If not, what is stopping him from operating?
A lawyer friend did advise him that he could take the risk and go ahead and get NEA to come for inspection and then start operation.
But V is not sure what other cards CCB would draw again...
3) Is your neighbour paying the rental?
The TA actually stated that rent to start ONLY upon NEA issuance of licence.
4) With proper TA and rental paid, there is no reason the MCST can back out of what they signed and agreed to. This is like a landlord trying to take back the premise after signing a TA to the tenant.
The TA is legit, the rent, deposit, insurance etc will all be settle before the start of operation.
So now his 'loss' is the renovation and equipment.
For some reason, the MA drafted the TA that way that he only start paying upon getting the licence. and the previous council has agreed and signed.
5) ACRA has no right nor authority to meddle in this issue right? If they ask your neighbour to de-register his business, he should ask ACRA to put it in black-and-white.
6) This is a typical case of a Chairman thinking he is a big fxxk! :pig:
You neighbour should not talk but ask for written explanations in black-and-white from MCST, and make sure signed by somebody in the MC who will be held accountable (not the Estate Manager). Otherwise, can just ignore MCST until they give your neighbour in legal letter.
Problem is that CCB doesn't reply to any email at all. He gets the condo manager to send.
Between April 2014 to July 2014 (3mths) the condo manager changed 3 times.
First one left because he lives too far from the condo,
The Second one came for only 1.5 mth. Apparently almost got into a fight with that CCB, which at that time was not even in the council but constantly go to MA office and question the condo manager over these and that.
7) Oh yes, if Chairman said is MCST decision to kick your friend out, your neighbour should ask them to put their decision in the Council meeting minutes. Then get a copy of the meeting minutes and seek legal advice.
proud owner
22-01-15, 00:03
wah lau bro ... the CCB really CCB ... he is out to make your friend live difficult.
Anyone know CCB personally?
Worse case scenario, sue MCST for lost of opportunity for willfully terminating the contract ...
The CCB really CCB!
I attended the AGM in 2013 and 2014 ... he really really very very rude to everyone .. and even shouted SHUT UP to the council and chair of the AGM.
Apparently he is one of the few who bought and still living here since day 1... he has been council member and chairman before in the last 20 to 30 years ...
I spoke with a few old timers living here ... they said the problem with the condo is that 75 pct of residents are tenants ...cannot vote ..
the remaining 25 pct don't even bother to attend AGM .. so he goes around collect veto ... and every 5 to 6 years he will run the council ...
rumor is that every 5 years ...must paint the condo ... and he has many contractor contacts ..
rumor also that in the past it cost 700k to 800k to paint the condo .. but when he was chairman .. that year will be 1 mio over ..
problem is when he runs the council ... the res t of the members are his gang ..
this I cannot prove also heard from old memebrs ...
proud owner
24-01-15, 21:56
so any present / past council members care to comment ?
So I suppose the 3phase power is no longer a problem?
If that is the case, your neighbour should just get the NEA aproval and license and start operation.
If the CCB comes to disturb, then deal with him legally as long as your neighbour follows the TA faithfully and did not breach any terms.
If they say your neighbour breach any terms, then ask for them to put down in black-and-white which specific terms they are talking about. your neighbour should tell them that he will not entertain verbal accusation.......
If CCB or Estate Manager (EM) says the MC say this and that, then ask CCB or EM to put down their claim in black-and-white.
If they say is the MC decision, then ask them to show you MC meeting minutes that record such decision.
Also, note that MC decision must be pasted on Notice Board within 7 days after MC meeting, failing which your neighbour can challenge such decision to be not enforceable and not valid.
Everything they claimed about your neighbour, ask them to put down in black-and-white. What they say to your neighbour just VERBALLY only, your neighbour can ignore.............
I suppose this is the only best way to deal with these trouble-makers, deal with them legally, and gather every evidence in black-and-white (for later use).
If they persisted, depending on the situation, may need to call Police and/or seek legal means as well in future, depending on their next action..........
Hi Teddybear ...
the answers are below your questions ..
Questions:
1) Has your neighbour started operating the cafe?
NO.
The procedure is to do reno, then get NEA approval , then NEA will issue licence, then he can start operation.
He is stucked at the final part when the 3phase power could not be activated.
Then the CCB can into the council and the saga began
2) If not, what is stopping him from operating?
A lawyer friend did advise him that he could take the risk and go ahead and get NEA to come for inspection and then start operation.
But V is not sure what other cards CCB would draw again...
3) Is your neighbour paying the rental?
The TA actually stated that rent to start ONLY upon NEA issuance of licence.
4) With proper TA and rental paid, there is no reason the MCST can back out of what they signed and agreed to. This is like a landlord trying to take back the premise after signing a TA to the tenant.
The TA is legit, the rent, deposit, insurance etc will all be settle before the start of operation.
So now his 'loss' is the renovation and equipment.
For some reason, the MA drafted the TA that way that he only start paying upon getting the licence. and the previous council has agreed and signed.
5) ACRA has no right nor authority to meddle in this issue right? If they ask your neighbour to de-register his business, he should ask ACRA to put it in black-and-white.
6) This is a typical case of a Chairman thinking he is a big fxxk!
You neighbour should not talk but ask for written explanations in black-and-white from MCST, and make sure signed by somebody in the MC who will be held accountable (not the Estate Manager). Otherwise, can just ignore MCST until they give your neighbour in legal letter.
Problem is that CCB doesn't reply to any email at all. He gets the condo manager to send.
Between April 2014 to July 2014 (3mths) the condo manager changed 3 times.
First one left because he lives too far from the condo,
The Second one came for only 1.5 mth. Apparently almost got into a fight with that CCB, which at that time was not even in the council but constantly go to MA office and question the condo manager over these and that.
7) Oh yes, if Chairman said is MCST decision to kick your friend out, your neighbour should ask them to put their decision in the Council meeting minutes. Then get a copy of the meeting minutes and seek legal advice.
it is a number game.
1) try to make friend with the chairman;
2） make more friends who stay there;
3) make even more friends in AGM;
When you have enough numbers, tones will change.
As for the painting, make sure sinking fund is as little as possible. So whoever wants to mis-use it, he needs to have EAGM to have one time charge. You will see more people to attend the meeting when money is involved.
It is very important to keep the sinking fund LOW.
the said condo has retail units... all are privately owned except for 1 unit which the developer kept since the condo was built. They wanted it to be managed by the MCST, for operators to sell drinks/food for the residents. Sort of a club house kind of thing, where pool and gym and function room users can purchase snacks, drinks etc.
Its an old condo.
for the past 20 over years, there had been at least 3 different operators.
After the last operator left in 2013, it has been left vacant. The unit is equipped with 1 and 3Phase power supply.
My neighbor approached the chairman of the council then and proposed to run a café/bakery.
The council was very much in favor of it. and a TA was granted to him sometime in April 2014.
He then applied to NEA for a food license and was told to submit all relevant documents.
All went ok. NEA then told him that he could start his renovation. After which NEA would need to inspect the unit before the license can be issued.
All this while, he liased with the council via email and through the condo manager.
He began his renovation, approved by the MCST. Spent $10k.
He also purchased coffee machine, oven, fridge, etc ... another $20k
in July when he tried to 'activate' the 3phase power, he was told by Singapore power (SP) that it could not be used. The original 3phase cable had been laid some 20 years ago and never been used. Past operators only used 1 phase power. SP said a new cable had to be laid. This would cost at least another $8k.
(Although the TA stated that the unit is leased 'As it is' condition, it is still the MCST's responsibility to ensure that everything under the MCST to be in 'working conditions')
After 2 mths of back and forth discussion with Sp to find a solutions, finally SP suggested that he could tap the 3phase supply from another source which is used to run the pool and gym.
By which time it was Nov 2014 and a NEW COUNCIL WAS FORMED.
My neighbor then approached the new council to seek then cooperation and help to allow him to tap the 3phase supply.
This is when everything turns ugly.
The new chairman is a veteran. He has lived there from day 1.
He has been members and chairman on several terms over the years.
He questioned my neighbor why the need to have 3 phase when the previous operators needed only 1 phase.
he explained that past operators sold drinks, and used microwave to heat up precooked, prepacked food. Hence household appliances was enough.
Since he plans to run a proper café, with freshly baked food, he purchased proper commercial equipment and these need 3phase power.
The chairman (Lets name him CCB), then said to my neighbor (V for victim) that the TA stated clearly 'As IT IS". hence CCB is not willing to allow V to tap the 3phase power.
V explained that the 3phase cable was originally there , just it is now confirmed that it cannot be used.
V said that he wants to bring fresh food to the residents and not microwave pre-cooked food. He asked CCB " don't you want better quality food for the people of this condo?"
CCB replied " NO"
V then pressed for an answer, CCb said the council would discuss and "get back to you"
V asked when ? 1 wk ? 2wk ?
CCB said " we will get back to you"
V said that this case has dragged for over 3 mths and he needed an answer soon. V asked again for a time frame.
CCB said again " we will get back to you"
2 weeks passed. V didn't hear from the mcst.
V asked the condo manager LL (Lan lan) if the council had given any reply yet. LL said " I really don't know"
"I am so sick and tired of handling this council. They don't tell me anything. when I ask CCB if he has replied to you, he told me " YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW"
What an A hole right ?
V then went to talk to the equipment suppliers and managed to Downgrade his appliances that run on 1 phase.
V then email the mcst that he was not waiting any longer for a reply and that he had downgraded his equipment and that he would apply to NEA for an inspection and then start operation.
The following day, V received an email from the MCST asking him to return the Key to the café.
V refused, explaining that as a tenant he has the right to hold on to the key. ( in fact after the renovation V has left 1 set of key with the condo manager)
2 days later, V received another email from the mcst.
it says " The TA is not void as you have failed to comply with the terms and conditions"
V wrote back to ask which T and C in particular has he not complied with.
the reply was " it is self explainatory"
till now V has no idea what went wrong.
The condo manager also don't know. This is why I name her LL ( lan lan ...as a condo manager , the council keeps everything from her)
A lawyer friend advised V to sent an OBJECTION email to the council. stating roughly that if they try to stop him from operating even with a legal TA, he will take legal action against the MCST.
The council simply ignored and still wouldn't give a straight answer.
In Jan, V received a registered letter from ACRA, that someone has complained that he is operating legally on the registered address.
V submitted the TA , PUB bills etc to ACRA to prove that he is the legal tenant.
ACRA 'kind of' accepted these documents but said, the complainant was the MCST. and if the mcst denies you, there is nothing acra can do but to ask V to de-register his business'.
after spending 10k on renovation and 20k on equipment, V is not allowed to operate. In fact he is being kicked out.
The mcst basically got a 20yr unit renovated free of charge...
This is why I ask :
what is the role of council members ?
shouldn't they be doing everything to make the condo facilities better ? instead of trying to stop V from doing somethingfor the residents?
throughout this period Nov to Jan the council has not replied to V which CCB said he would, nor reply to any of V's queries.
According to V, during the renovation period, many residents approached him to ask when the café will be up and running.
almost 75% of the residents are expat tenants, they use the pool, gym, everyday ... and they want to be able to buy some snacks, or refreshment..
This is the actual story.
So bros and sis, apart from taking legal action, what can V do ?
Maybe the new council has vested interest and a new tenant lined up and therefore wish to kick out or void the current TA by dirty means.
Having sunk in thousands already. Should just seek legal recourse.
OK, it seems that BMSMA has regulation on conducts of Managing Agent:
Duty and liability of council members and officers
61. —(1) A member of a council shall at all times act honestly and use reasonable diligence in the discharge of the duties of his office.
(2) A member of a council, or an officer or an agent or a managing agent of a management corporation, shall not use his position as a member of the council or as an officer, an agent or a managing agent of the management corporation to gain, directly or indirectly, an advantage for himself or for any other person or to cause detriment to the management corporation.
(3) Any person who commits a breach of any provision of this section shall —
(a) be liable to the management corporation for any profit made by him or for any damage suffered by the management corporation as a result of the breach of any such provision; and
(b) be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both.
(4) This section shall be in addition to and not in derogation of any other written law or rule of law relating to the duty or liability of members of a council.
(5) In this section —
"agent" includes a banker, a solicitor or an auditor of a management corporation and any person who at any time has been a banker, a solicitor or an auditor of the management corporation;
"officer" includes a person who at any time has been an officer of a management corporation.
[LT(S)A, s. 67]
So it seems that in the case of MA making mistake and causing losses to the MCST, we can bring MA to STB to hear the case.
Also, while bringing MA to STB will incur some costs ($500 application fee + other hearing fees), we can apply to STB to have these costs awarded/compensated to us by the MA if we are confident of winning the case.
Thanks!
REGULATIONS have more details.
http://www.bca.gov.sg/publications/BMSM/BM_strata_mgt_reg.html
i having the same problem with my cond and a particular family behave as though they can lord over their fellow residence owner. planning to throw all the existing council member out next AGM. stupid council member clamp visitor car who unknowingly park at basement carpark without any warning at maximum allowable amount uu der strata act of sgd 200
you can start contact the owner through mailbox and info them or invite them to join snd form new council. need to take the lead and parepare ownself yo be in the council member. i am planning to do the same to kick out our current arrogance and secretive council member
they are people who cannot bear to see someone else success? seem like it is one person dictatorship to run the place he according to his wishes. just garner support to vote this person out
knightswatch
19-05-18, 13:41
Dear guru Bros and Sis,
With respect to Strata Titles, I have the following questions :
1. What is the role of MCST ?
2. What is the purpose of the residents' council ?
in my condo, the council has absolute power. The condo manager is a mere muppet. He does whatever the council tells him.
he knows nothing about what the council is thinking or planning to do.
Where residents email the council, they do not reply at all. Simply ignore anything and everything that they are not interested in or not beneficial to them personally.
When residents ask the condo manager about their emails, the manager can only say : I really don't know, if they don't reply nothing I can do ... when I ask the council members, they tell me ,,, YOU DONT NEED TO KNOW. etc
Shouldn't the council be People person ?
Shouldn't the council be doing things that improves the value of the condo ? or make living there better ?
I am new to this forum but I have lived in many condos before. The role of the MCST basically is the (a) upkeep of the condo and (b) finding ways to help raise the value of the condo. Not many MCST can do the second part. Many many try their best to do the first part but struggle. Why?
1. MCST work is pro bono thus rely on condo manager too much
2. Condo managers have no motivation (it's just a job to them)
3. No oversight on condo managers and property management agencies (the messier the situation, the more they are needed)
4. Good and able MCST members have day jobs so MCST job is not their priority
5. Most retirees (not all) who run MCST only care about cutting costs
I have lived in condos where the Chairman and the MCST members will not give out their contacts or make a huge fuss if their contacts are given out. I have lived in condos where it's the exact opposite- chairman was willing to give out mobile and email.
There is also a newer breed of MCST that is more advanced and use technology a lot. But even with technology, the condo have to be careful because there are many types of vendors. In one of my condo, we implement their system for free but vendor just disappear after that because it's free; no support. It is full of annoying ads and I get so many phone calls from property agents and other nuisance calls. What is irritating is when you book bbq pits or function rooms or tennis courts, there are so many hidden charges.
My other condo seems to be doing something right. The system is some subscription but MCST use it to run the condo. Important is MCST can use it to MANAGE the condo. Our chairman say the company even gives suggestions based on what we residents feedback about. Every resident can see all the feedback. Even old idiots like me can use. Even our security guards can use. Since MCST using it to manage, we stop increasing maintenance fees. All facilities can book for free. No need to keep chasing the condo manager. The app on my phone is Digital MCST. I share this since this topic is about what MCST role is.
knightswatch
20-05-18, 12:00
Its not fair to generalise. I have been a member of MC for many years and my main objective is to ensure that the MC does not spend funds extravagantly and end up increasing Maintenance charge. Many of my friends who serve in MC are also serving for the same reason. The secondary objective is to ensure peace and quiet and proper maintenance of the condo. Whilst there bound to be bad hats in every society, there are also equally high number of honest people around.
I agree 100%. I've seen good ones and bad ones. The good ones will have foresight and determination to do the right thing. They will put measures to guard against undesired behaviours.
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