View Full Version : URA: Max 6 Tenants in Private Properties
anythingwhatever
11-05-17, 22:08
Latest Cooling Measure is now out:
https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/buy-property/about/leasing/residential.aspx
Discuss...
"The only exception in which the occupancy cap does not apply is when a private residential property is entirely occupied by the same family unit."
Many landed house will be impacted, also private apartment specialised for foreign workers like in geylang, st michael and macpherson area.
Many landed house will be impacted, also private apartment specialised for foreign workers like in geylang, st michael and macpherson area.
But that would further lower the vacancy rates?
It may be good, depending on how one look at it.
If you spend a million dollar and your neighbor rent their unit to FW would you want to spend the million dollars?
But that would further lower the vacancy rates?
I don't think URA is going after vacancy rates, they get too many complaints on FW in Condo.
It is cheaper to house FW in Condo than the dormitory.
https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18358958_10210479921807245_56982456819393620_o.jpg?oh=91504e5e80b81039b0ee0b8fc5f653b1&oe=59AF6584
bargain hunter
12-05-17, 08:15
there are still 2 more years to go if u sign/renew the tenancy with more than 6 foreign workers by this sunday.
anythingwhatever
12-05-17, 08:19
It may be good, depending on how one look at it.
If you spend a million dollar and your neighbor rent their unit to FW would you want to spend the million dollars?
But that would further lower the vacancy rates?
I don't think URA is going after vacancy rates, they get too many complaints on FW in Condo.
It is cheaper to house FW in Condo than the dormitory.
The record is "50" in two 2BR units:
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/50-workers-found-crammed-into-two-condo-units
For me, it's good. I never rent to more than two or three persons and prefer them to be related.
But those buy to rent landed will kenna big.
The policy is biased against those with huge units.
No wonder landed price last quarter suddenly dropped by about 2%...
hmm...about 2.5 months from passing law to URA issue guideline.
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-short-term-home-rental-illegal-under-new-law
it was mentioned that article
"The new law will also limit the number of unrelated tenants in private apartments to six, down from the currently allowed eight. "
will it have any impact ?
no aware of any news of actions taken against AirBnb and those hosts despite new law being passed in 2017-02-26.
those who stayed within the old guideline (8) will continue to stay in the new guideline (6).
those who stay on the gray area will continue to stay in the gray area.
does the above guideline forbid hot bunking? it maybe interpreted that only 6 occupants INSIDE the unit at the same time. with hotbunking, a total of 18 occupants, 6 at each 8hour time slots.
With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties. I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year.
With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties. I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year.
what were unclear previously? what were unclear about max 8 occupants and min of 6 months? and penalties of fines of up to $200k and jail up to 1 year were also not clear?
it is the enforcement part that is lacking.
what were unclear previously? what were unclear about max 8 occupants and min of 6 months? and penalties of fines of up to $200k and jail up to 1 year were also not clear?
it is the enforcement part that is lacking.
The penalties are heavier now. Recently revised.
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-short-term-home-rental-illegal-under-new-law
The clarity also encourages more active whistleblowing.
Do what you want, but don't ever get caught.
so were previous penalties unclear or not heavy enough ?
how were the officials not clear nor stanceful previously ?
or penalties not heavy enough = law not clear enough ?
Just think Uber / Grab and Private Hire cars, and you will see how this works.
so were previous penalties unclear or not heavy enough ?
how were the officials not clear nor stanceful previously ?
or penalties not heavy enough = law not clear enough ?
Airbnb are still advertising daily rentals for private properties, and they didn't bother to enforce? Otherwise why nobody get caught yet?
They can set all kind of laws they want, but if they don't enforce, it is just that - "a piece of paper"! People then think that they can just ignore the "law" because they are just for "show", wayang...............
hmm...about 2.5 months from passing law to URA issue guideline.
http://www.straitstimes.com/politics/parliament-short-term-home-rental-illegal-under-new-law
it was mentioned that article
"The new law will also limit the number of unrelated tenants in private apartments to six, down from the currently allowed eight. "
will it have any impact ?
no aware of any news of actions taken against AirBnb and those hosts despite new law being passed in 2017-02-26.
those who stayed within the old guideline (8) will continue to stay in the new guideline (6).
those who stay on the gray area will continue to stay in the gray area.
does the above guideline forbid hot bunking? it maybe interpreted that only 6 occupants INSIDE the unit at the same time. with hotbunking, a total of 18 occupants, 6 at each 8hour time slots.
Likely to be based on neighborhood report. More tenants more noise and neighbor not happy, knowing the rule they will happily report to mgmt or police (?).
先礼后兵。
Airbnb are still advertising daily rentals for private properties, and they didn't bother to enforce? Otherwise why nobody get caught yet?
They can set all kind of laws they want, but if they don't enforce, it is just that - "a piece of paper"! People then think that they can just ignore the "law" because they are just for "show", wayang...............
In this case, the authorities seem to emphasise more on the number rather than the duration.
You can sense the stance from the articles.
Numbers and address wise, my tenants tell me the authorities check it through their employers and are quite serious about it.
Just think Uber / Grab and Private Hire cars, and you will see how this works.
thank you for mentioning uber/grab.
but instead of sidetracking, let's get back to the statement
"With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties. I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year."
we are only at the 1st part "With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties."
have not even begin to discuss the 2nd part "I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year."
so let's begin again:
how were the previous rules/guidelines not clear?
is this why you say the rules are unclear?
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/real-estate/short-term-rental-its-in-the-phrasing-of-contracts
i know you make no money by telling me or anybody else here, i can only depends on your charity to enlighten me (& the rest of us.)
bargain hunter
12-05-17, 14:01
companies who own landed can continue to house their workers there since they are not "rented"?
the way i see it, the introduction of the new rules/guidelines is a matter of saving face for the authorities.
if authorities start enforcing the previous rules in 2017, questions would arise why they did not strictly enforce the rules in 2016,2015 for example. it would be uncomfortable.
by tweaking the old rule slightly and introducing it as new, if and when they enforce the new rule in 2017, they can justify it by saying it is the new law. old rule, old fines would kind be "forgotten" as if they didnt exist.
as kelonguni mention, 先礼后兵. who would be the "lucky one". after that life goes on.
by the way, nowadays does taxi driver still ask rear passengers to put on seatbelt?
companies who own landed can continue to house their workers there since they are not "rented"?
interesting question, would it come under the home office scheme?
In essence, growth of technology meant lots of new disruptive technologies emerged.
Govt will let free market run a while, continue to collect feedback, then study in details during review.
It's the same with HDB and private ownership and where to stay, Uber and Grab, piracy issues, short term stay, milk powder marketing costs.
Once details are finalised and impacts are studied carefully, the finalised stands are made clear to all. Uber and Grab and private hire cars was passed, short term stays are stopped, after careful review.
Need more evidence?
thank you for mentioning uber/grab.
but instead of sidetracking, let's get back to the statement
"With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties. I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year."
we are only at the 1st part "With official clarity and stance, agents cannot claim ignorance and there will be clear penalties."
have not even begin to discuss the 2nd part "I think this will drastically reduce vacancies by the end of the year."
so let's begin again:
how were the previous rules/guidelines not clear?
is this why you say the rules are unclear?
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/real-estate/short-term-rental-its-in-the-phrasing-of-contracts
i know you make no money by telling me or anybody else here, i can only depends on your charity to enlighten me (& the rest of us.)
thanks kelonguni. please bear with me, i am what you may called dense. (the unkind word is stupid).
from the post above, do you mean to say the previous rules were clear (max 8 occupants, min 6 months) but for some reason or another, the rules were not strictly enforced? perhaps the reasons for not strictly enforcing were what you posted above.
Rules could never be fully enforced as long as there are humans. Drugs are illegal, unregistered vice is illegal, but they still persist. The authorities must choose their fights - which are the worst problems to tackle?
There may be some law conditions that need to be modified before the authorities can pick up the fight.
For example, I remember recently they modified the authorities of the police to conduct search without warrant or something. May be related to the ultimate enforcement of tenancy rules. At present, it is more for entertainment nightspots flouting rules, but it can be further extended.
This is more serious nowadays due to the threat of terrorism.
thanks kelonguni. please bear with me, i am what you may called dense. (the unkind word is stupid).
from the post above, do you mean to say the previous rules were clear (max 8 occupants, min 6 months) but for some reason or another, the rules were not strictly enforced? perhaps the reasons for not strictly enforcing were what you posted above.
Latest Cooling Measure is now out:
https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/buy-property/about/leasing/residential.aspx
Discuss...
First need to read this https://www.99.co/blog/singapore/preventing-illegal-subletting-a-guide/
While there are a number of strict guidelines set in place by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), these rules are largely concerned with restrictions on structural layouts, minimum length of stay, tenancy agreements and overcrowding. As such, private homeowners themselves have to ensure that tenants do not engage in illegal subletting of the premises.
before trying to understand https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/buy-property/about/leasing/residential.aspx
The Singapore Parliament passed a new law which makes short term rental illegal in Singapore. The amended Planning Act makes it illegal for property owners to rent out rent out entire apartments and rooms on a short-term basis unless they have permission from the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) to do so.
http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/News-Page/ID/2527?category=Parliamentary%20Speech
In fact, the cap of 6 persons was the original cap that used to be in place before. This cap was raised to 8 in 2008 to ease a crunch in the housing supply for workers. Since then, we have built up a good supply of alternative accommodation catering to groups other than families, such as hostels for students and dormitories for company employees and workers. So we believe it is timely to revert to the cap of 6, which was what it used to be before 2008. As for reviewing the HDB limits, I think that is a separate matter which is not within the remits of the Planning Act, because the HDB controls are regulated separately. We would be happy to do the review of the occupancy cap for HDB flats on a separate basis.
anythingwhatever
13-05-17, 08:27
First need to read this https://www.99.co/blog/singapore/preventing-illegal-subletting-a-guide/
While there are a number of strict guidelines set in place by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), these rules are largely concerned with restrictions on structural layouts, minimum length of stay, tenancy agreements and overcrowding. As such, private homeowners themselves have to ensure that tenants do not engage in illegal subletting of the premises.
before trying to understand https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/buy-property/about/leasing/residential.aspx
The Singapore Parliament passed a new law which makes short term rental illegal in Singapore. The amended Planning Act makes it illegal for property owners to rent out rent out entire apartments and rooms on a short-term basis unless they have permission from the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) to do so.
http://app.mnd.gov.sg/Newsroom/News-Page/ID/2527?category=Parliamentary%20Speech
In fact, the cap of 6 persons was the original cap that used to be in place before. This cap was raised to 8 in 2008 to ease a crunch in the housing supply for workers. Since then, we have built up a good supply of alternative accommodation catering to groups other than families, such as hostels for students and dormitories for company employees and workers. So we believe it is timely to revert to the cap of 6, which was what it used to be before 2008. As for reviewing the HDB limits, I think that is a separate matter which is not within the remits of the Planning Act, because the HDB controls are regulated separately. We would be happy to do the review of the occupancy cap for HDB flats on a separate basis.
Interesting... Will HDB be the next target? :)
We just need to examine the vacancy rates for next quarter to ascertain.
From the news reports, it appears that many private homeowners have been renting out spare bedrooms. Or renting out individual rooms to separate groups.
It will be interesting to see how low the vacancy will trend to with this. Because some can rush to renew, I think it will only fall to 7.5%.
Interesting... Will HDB be the next target? :)
Every rule, guideline, Act (law) are all calibrated to ensure the property market function at it best.
2007 before I went oversea, HDB are only allowed to rent out the whole unit after fully paid or 10 years MOP. But because of the large intake of FW, HDB reduce it to 5 years MOP and HDB need not be fully paid when buying Private.
To understand Singapore property market, one need to read the economic, MOM, trade data, MOE, etc. all are interlink and will affect the decide outcome from Ah Kong.
The day where 535,000 become 1,550,000 in 4 years are over whether it will happen again only TIME can tell.
The Money printing is only getting to be worst and everyone knows it, only those who know, refuse to know and don't want to know.
If one can buy and think can wait, rule, guideline, Act (law) will change then today can buy tomorrow cannot.
Buy where you can hold not where you can meet the minimum and you should be safe.
ITs a good thing. coz people who go and segement a landed and lease out small little rooms should be stoped
ITs a good thing. coz people who go and segement a landed and lease out small little rooms should be stoped
Landed property and big condo units will crash... a lot of people buy with the mindset tat I can rent to many groups of tenants and sub-divide there units....obscene rent they get....finally the garment is doing something ....👏👏👏👏👏
But one or two bedders will or even the compact 3 bedders that are designed to cater for up to 6 people will Huat!
Landed property and big condo units will crash... a lot of people buy with the mindset tat I can rent to many groups of tenants and sub-divide there units....obscene rent they get....finally the garment is doing something ....👏👏👏👏👏
anythingwhatever
14-05-17, 12:35
But one or two bedders will or even the compact 3 bedders that are designed to cater for up to 6 people will Huat!
That's why the logic of the new ruling seemed a bit flawed...
Should be based on the number of bedrooms, subject to a cap of say 9 pax, similar to those for HDB.
What if the bedrooms are 3m x 1.5m each and they partition into 30 bedrooms?
Current ruling is equally flawed! What if they squeeze 6 people into a mickey mouse unit of 200 sqft?
I think adding another criteria relating min area per person (e.g. min 200 sqft per person) should be more reasonable, subject to a max cap, say 8 (like now).
In this case, a mickey mouse unit of 300 sqft can only house 1 and not 6 people.........
That's why the logic of the new ruling seemed a bit flawed...
Should be based on the number of bedrooms, subject to a cap of say 9 pax, similar to those for HDB.
anythingwhatever
14-05-17, 13:52
What if the bedrooms are 3m x 1.5m each and they partition into 30 bedrooms?
Current ruling is equally flawed! What if they squeeze 6 people into a mickey mouse unit of 200 sqft?
I think adding another criteria relating min area per person (e.g. min 200 sqft per person) should be more reasonable, subject to a max cap, say 8 (like now).
In this case, a mickey mouse unit of 300 sqft can only house 1 and not 6 people.........
That would be an alternative too.
Though a MM unit should be minimally for 2 person (e.g. a pair of childless couple) lah... :)
Anyway, now that there is ruling clarity, we know what we need to do.
https://propertynet.sg/updates-rental-rules-regulations-singapore-hdb-private-condoec/
MARINE company boss Thavaseelan Kumarasamy rents rooms for his workers in three HDB flats in Boon Lay.
It is a win-win situation for him and his employees from India. The flats are located near the shipyards in Tuas, where the men work, and are surrounded by amenities.
Rent is also cheaper. Mr Thavaseelan pays $250 for each worker a month, compared to $300 a month at a purpose-built dorm.
But this arrangement will end soon. From May 1 next year, non-Malaysian workers from the marine and process sectors, including the chemicals and pharmaceutical sectors, will not be allowed to live in public housing.
"My workers like their privacy in the flats and I save cost. But I have to move them out soon," said Mr Thavaseelan, general manager of Tech Offshore Marine.
Other new rules are forcing employers to move their foreign workers to purpose-built dorms.
Last week, in a circular to building owners and developers, the Urban Redevelopment Authority said it would no longer allow new temporary dorms to be built in 12 industrial estates.
These were usually converted from old factories and could be used for up to three years. But conditions tended to be cramped and dirty.
Purpose-built dorms are generally well-maintained and come with amenities, but bosses said the rents would hike their wage bills by 20 per cent, which might be passed on to consumers, said Mr Melvin Ong, director of construction company Fonda Global.
There are about 700 temporary dorms housing some 100,000 low-skilled foreign workers - a quarter of the 385,000 here who need accommodation.
Another 200,000 live in purpose-built dormitories. The rest are elsewhere, such as in public housing or temporary quarters on worksites.
Migrant worker groups have been critical of conditions in factory-converted dorms and support the new plans to house workers in proper dorms. But Migrant Workers' Centre chairman Yeo Guat Kwang said the authorities must continue to enforce standards at all types of housing, including converted dorms.
Activists warned that some bosses may cut the salaries of workers to offset higher costs and called on the authorities to take action against unscrupulous bosses.
"Hopefully, after more purpose-built dorms are up and running, competition will keep rents reasonable," said Mr Alex Au, vice-president of Transient Workers Count Too.
Nine purpose-built dorms will be built over the next two years to add about 100,000 beds.
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/hdb/bosses-get-ready-to-move-workers-staying-in-flats/a/189319
http://www.propertyfactsheet.com/foreign-workers-renting-hdb-flats-must-be-registered-as-subtenants/
Foreign workers renting hdb flats must be registered as subtenants before their addresses can be updated in the online foreign worker address service (OFWAS)
1. The Ministry of Manpower (MOM) will be making changes to the registration of HDB residential addresses in MOM’s OFWAS, for foreign workers on Work Permits.
2. With effect from 1 March 2016, employers must first ensure that their foreign workers have been registered as subtenants in HDB’s subletting system, before the workers’ residential addresses can be updated in OFWAS. Real estate agents and their salespersons who are appointed by home owners in the leasing out of HDB premises to foreign workers or are securing HDB premises for foreign workers on behalf of employers are advised to remind their clients to ensure that foreign workers are correctly and promptly registered in the HDB’s subletting system.
3 MOM would also like to remind all estate agents and their salespersons of the existing regulations (refer to table below). MOM will not hesitate to take enforcement actions, against any employers who fail to register the worker in OFWAS.
https://www.cea.gov.sg/docs/default-source/module/speech/14571986-bb0f-41ce-954e-87e354991dc4.pdf
Before 15 May 2017.
each occupant should have at least 10 sqm of space. The maximum number of occupants in a residential unit is eight, no matter how big the unit is
https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13726555_10207887534199175_1656062516212869003_n.jpg?oh=adc2c2c08356dab711027fa86d98ae95&oe=59C2F8B0
This two bedroom condo rented to FW.
With effect from 15 May 2017, the maximum number of unrelated occupants that may be accommodated in a property is six.
The new ruling doesn't have this old ruling limitation "each occupant should have at least 10 sqm of space. The maximum number of occupants in a residential unit is eight, no matter how big the unit is"
More demand for One Bedroom for FW housing.
LPPL
Huat Ah.....
Why people rent condos for their FWs?
Isn't HDB flats cheaper and can squeeze more people inside?
Before 15 May 2017.
each occupant should have at least 10 sqm of space. The maximum number of occupants in a residential unit is eight, no matter how big the unit is
https://scontent-sit4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13726555_10207887534199175_1656062516212869003_n.jpg?oh=adc2c2c08356dab711027fa86d98ae95&oe=59C2F8B0
This two bedroom condo rented to FW.
Why people rent condos for their FWs?
Isn't HDB flats cheaper and can squeeze more people inside?
HDB don't allow FW rental.
More expensive to use HDB also.
Private got free parking and cheaper.
Why people rent condos for their FWs?
Isn't HDB flats cheaper and can squeeze more people inside?
Can at least soak in swimming pool or gym, even if it's small ones.
Singapore hot and nowadays people more health conscious, but want comfort when they exercise.
Oh I see, luckily it is only for OCR private condos.
CCR condos are just too expensive for employers and not worth to do so compared to OCR condos. :cool:
Can at least soak in swimming pool or gym, even if it's small ones.
Singapore hot and nowadays people more health conscious, but want comfort when they exercise.
Not sure what you are referring to. I am talking about swim and gym.
You mean CCR cannot swim and gym? Or landed?
Oh I see, luckily it is only for OCR private condos.
CCR condos are just too expensive for employers and not worth to do so compared to OCR condos. :cool:
anythingwhatever
14-05-17, 17:42
Oh I see, luckily it is only for OCR private condos.
CCR condos are just too expensive for employers and not worth to do so compared to OCR condos. :cool:
Not sure what you are referring to. I am talking about swim and gym.
You mean CCR cannot swim and gym? Or landed?
How about RCR? :)
I mean employers will deem CCR to be too expensive and not worth it to rent for their foreign workers to stay since they have much cheaper alternative - those private condos in OCR.
Also cheaper to rent OCR landed than CCR landed since they are much cheaper, they can (previously) squeeze 40 people into a terrace house or semi-D......
Without these new ruling, for very large construction companies, it may be worth it to rent GCB too because they are so large and can even build addition extensions outside the main building to house >200 people.
GCB rental may be large in absolute figure but actually much cheaper in terms of $psf in monthly rental!
E.g. they rent for $20k pm but divide by 200 people means only $100 per person pm! :dog:
Not sure what you are referring to. I am talking about swim and gym.
You mean CCR cannot swim and gym? Or landed?
Actually all regions are subject to same condition.
One sharing a 9-1 private property can only rent a 6-1 unit whether it's CCR, RCR or OCR, and costs will go up by 50%
6-1 should allow most owners to cover mortgage and other costs; I think the extra 3 is creamed off to support those landlords who have difficulties finding tenants.
The numbers came in but dissipated with sharing. So newcomers into the system will be "forced" to manifest in speedy reduction of vacancy.
After this phase, GLS round 2 since 2010 to 2013 should begin very soon. The bull is just around the corner!
I mean employers will deem CCR to be too expensive and not worth it to rent for their foreign workers to stay since they have much cheaper alternative - those private condos in OCR.
Also cheaper to rent OCR landed than CCR landed since they are much cheaper, they can (previously) squeeze 40 people into a terrace house or semi-D......
Without these new ruling, for very large construction companies, it may be worth it to rent GCB too because they are so large and can even build addition extensions outside the main building to house >200 people.
GCB rental may be large in absolute figure but actually much cheaper in terms of $psf in monthly rental!
E.g. they rent for $20k pm but divide by 200 people means only $100 per person pm! :dog:
anythingwhatever
14-05-17, 21:22
The bull is just around the corner!
http://s1.ticketm.net/tm/en-us/dam/a/4ea/271f6684-04ab-4978-867b-9a88f8cdf4ea_28811_CUSTOM.jpg
I guess Gov is trying to save the dorm operators. Apart from FW, I can't imagine who would want to squeeze with 7 other unrelated tenants in a unit before this ruling.
Price war in workers’ dormitories
By Cecilia Chow / The Edge Property | November 18, 2016
In Singapore, firms in the offshore and marine (O&M) sector were hit when crude oil prices started to fall in 2014. Keppel Corp, for example, announced last month that its O&M business shed 8,000 jobs, or 26% of its workforce, in the first nine months of the year to September. Sembcorp Marine likewise said it had laid off 8,000 workers this year.
The slowdown in the overall economy has also affected companies in the manufacturing and construction industries. According to the Ministry of Manpower, the manufacturing sector lost 3,700 jobs in 3Q2016, marking its eighth consecutive quarter of decline. Owing to a slump in private-sector construction activity, the construction sector as a whole saw 5,200 jobs cut in 3Q2016. This contraction in construction and manufacturing is said to have affected mainly work permit holders.
“We are the first to know when a company lays off workers because it will send us a lease termination notice,” says Shamkumar. “The challenge is to fill the vacancy. There is a penalty for early termination of a tenancy agreement, but we are flexible on that point.”
Shamkumar is targeting to drive occupancy rate to at least 95% over the next three years. One consolation is that the government will not be releasing any more sites for new purpose- built workers’ dormitories for now, he says.
The number of purpose-built workers’ dormitories listed on the Ministry of Manpower’s website is 54, with an aggregate of close to 250,000 beds.
https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/price-war-workers%E2%80%99-dormitories
Hard to say actually.
My colleague shares a 3BR condo rent with family members including in-laws. I believe the total number of members is 8, several of which are children.
Under this ruling, they should still be able to rent due to relations.
On other occasions, I have heard of multiple room rentals to separate groups (sometimes including Singaporeans), and it seems to be quite common if you visit certain sites like rentinsingapore or some Facebook sites.
I guess Gov is trying to save the dorm operators. Apart from FW, I can't imagine who would want to squeeze with 7 other unrelated tenants in a unit before this ruling.
Price war in workers’ dormitories
By Cecilia Chow / The Edge Property | November 18, 2016
In Singapore, firms in the offshore and marine (O&M) sector were hit when crude oil prices started to fall in 2014. Keppel Corp, for example, announced last month that its O&M business shed 8,000 jobs, or 26% of its workforce, in the first nine months of the year to September. Sembcorp Marine likewise said it had laid off 8,000 workers this year.
The slowdown in the overall economy has also affected companies in the manufacturing and construction industries. According to the Ministry of Manpower, the manufacturing sector lost 3,700 jobs in 3Q2016, marking its eighth consecutive quarter of decline. Owing to a slump in private-sector construction activity, the construction sector as a whole saw 5,200 jobs cut in 3Q2016. This contraction in construction and manufacturing is said to have affected mainly work permit holders.
“We are the first to know when a company lays off workers because it will send us a lease termination notice,” says Shamkumar. “The challenge is to fill the vacancy. There is a penalty for early termination of a tenancy agreement, but we are flexible on that point.”
Shamkumar is targeting to drive occupancy rate to at least 95% over the next three years. One consolation is that the government will not be releasing any more sites for new purpose- built workers’ dormitories for now, he says.
The number of purpose-built workers’ dormitories listed on the Ministry of Manpower’s website is 54, with an aggregate of close to 250,000 beds.
https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/price-war-workers%E2%80%99-dormitories
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 10:38
Can at least soak in swimming pool or gym, even if it's small ones.
Singapore hot and nowadays people more health conscious, but want comfort when they exercise.
that means the cooling measures will help to ease the mickey mouse oversupply?
that means the cooling measures will help to ease the mickey mouse oversupply?
I think support HDB and other medium sized condo more.
Most who opt for MM don't tend to have more than 3 tenants.
Not that oversupplied nowadays also with many people living singly or couple.
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 11:51
I think support HDB and other medium sized condo more.
Most who opt for MM don't tend to have more than 3 tenants.
Not that oversupplied nowadays also with many people living singly or couple.
as bro arcachon pointed out, NOW they can kekeke. 6 to a 1 bedder of 3xx sq ft. lol. > 5% yield.
as bro arcachon pointed out, NOW they can kekeke. 6 to a 1 bedder of 3xx sq ft. lol. > 5% yield.
They always could have done that. But seldom see 4 persons staying in a 40 sqm space. Mainly retirees and single with kids or married without kids.
Or maybe I was frog in the well.
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 12:18
They always could have done that. But seldom see 4 persons staying in a 40 sqm space. Mainly retirees and single with kids or married without kids.
Or maybe I was frog in the well.
old rules was min. 10 sq m. per pax so it was capped at 4 for 400 sq ft but now with the new rules, there's economies of scale.
Here in SG we are grouching about not enough space when each of us probably have 25sqm or more.
There we have people willing to take 7 sqm per pax.
Interesting.
old rules was min. 10 sq m. per pax so it was capped at 4 for 400 sq ft but now with the new rules, there's economies of scale.
Their policy looks great but when they implement all shit appear.
Or I could be wrong, this is what they intend to help the OCR and the low budget investor.
At the same time, it reduces the benefits of those who buy way bigger than what they require (say a 5 bedder) and rent 2 bedrooms out.
Some multi generation households rent out 2 or 3 HDBs to support 1 huge private household (still allowed), and further rent out the private rooms (disallowed) if over 6 persons.
Not they willing lah!
They have NO CHOICE because that is what their employer willing to provide!
Just like squeezing 30 people into a terrace house!
Here in SG we are grouching about not enough space when each of us probably have 25sqm or more.
There we have people willing to take 7 sqm per pax.
Interesting.
So you saying this measure is actually squeezing the employer to pay up more for overall rent.
Not they willing lah!
They have NO CHOICE because that is what their employer willing to provide!
Just like squeezing 30 people into a terrace house!
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 12:56
may i ask if anyone knows, how much does it cost to house 1 foreign worker in dormitories?
I don't know the intention of the measure, so I can't comment.
However, I can only comment on the net effects of the measure that it would probably produce (my opinions):
1) Employers cannot no longer squeeze more people into a BIG property unit (even landed also max 6 people when previously they tried to squeeze 30 people or even more!).
2) Yet Employers now can squeeze more people into small units, like studios and mickey-mouse units to a max of 6 people (if they want to save costs).
3) Employers with many workers now may have no choice but to house their workers in special-purpose-built worker dorms, which according to newspapers, will cost these employers so much more than housing them in privately-owned residential properties. So yes, it increases the costs to these employers, and we would expect these to be passed to consumers.
So you saying this measure is actually squeezing the employer to pay up more for overall rent.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/search-property/dormitory-beds/rent
This says $300.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/search-property/dormitory-beds/rent
This says from $190
Here says S$300-350 pm.
http://studentry.sg/2016/02/04/singapore-largest-dorm/
may i ask if anyone knows, how much does it cost to house 1 foreign worker in dormitories?
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 13:31
$350 each for 6 in a mickey mouse 1 bedder of 3xx or 4xx sq ft in geylang (where the oversupply is). good yield rite?
1 bedroom + 1 living room can be used for the 6 beds.
Even take $350 X 6, the rent close one eye also $1,800 to $2,000.
Like that how to crash anything TB bro?
Even take $350 X 6, the rent close one eye also $1,800 to $2,000.
Like that how to crash anything TB bro?
Personally, I prefer to rent to couple or small families if I have an MM unit though.
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 13:50
Personally, I prefer to rent to couple or small families if I have an MM unit though.
of course lah. but some mortgagee sales of MM units starting to creep in mah. and many others < $2k also can't rent out. but now, there is the option to innovate.
of course lah. but some mortgagee sales of MM units starting to creep in mah. and many others < $2k also can't rent out. but now, there is the option to innovate.
The option has always been there, at least up to 4 pax.
But more of passing over the excess persons to the vacant units I suppose.
But the landlords who rushed to renew >6 tenants several years ahead, I am also not sure if they ultimately lugi big cos if vacancy goes down very fast in the next quarters, they will be stuck with large number of tenants at a fixed lowest rent price.
I hope and trust the authorities will calibrate this well.
may i ask if anyone knows, how much does it cost to house 1 foreign worker in dormitories?
“The market is very different now,” says Shamkumar Subramani, CEO of TS Management Services, the operator and co-owner of Tuas View. “It used to be in the $300 range per worker just 12 months ago. Now, it is down to the $200-to-$250 range.”
Generally, companies sign a one-year tenancy agreement, but the operator also offers the flexibility of three- to six-month leases for those with foreign workers on a project basis, he says.
https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/price-war-workers%E2%80%99-dormitories
So many 2bed going for $2k. 3pax in each room. Free parking lot and easier to find girlfriends on Sunday too.:wink-new:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing/property-for-rent/2?property_type_code%5B0%5D=CONDO&property_type_code%5B1%5D=APT&property_type_code%5B2%5D=WALK&property_type_code%5B3%5D=CLUS&property_type_code%5B4%5D=EXCON&property_type=N&maxprice=2000&beds%5B0%5D=2
Including arachon's favorite Terrasse.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/20647250/for-rent-terrasse?ref=ls%7C%7C15%7C2
Changi Court, layout pretty decent.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/5609486/for-rent-changi-court?ref=ls%7C%7C19%7C2
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 15:15
do note that construction/marine workers who stay in dormitories cannot stay in residential apartments. next level is office admin staff at $400. 6*4 = $2.4k for 2 bedders?
Before 15 May, 2b $2k / 8pax = $250/pax
After 15 May, 2b $2k / 6pax = $333/pax
Just nice above $300, that was the price of dorm a year ago.
Before this regulation $250 is not far from dorm pricing yet employer still need to arrange transport to fetch them to/fro from Tuas. Time is money. those old Geylang apt/terrace lot of FW, like "mini Chinatown".
do note that construction/marine workers who stay in dormitories cannot stay in residential apartments.
I thought restriction is only hdbs, pte too?
"Workers in the marine and process sectors, including the chemicals and pharmaceutical sectors, will no longer be allowed to be housed in HDB flats from 1 May 2015, said media reports"
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2014/11/73198/foreign-workers-in-certain-sectors-barred-from-pub
Anyway O&G a lot of layoffs, dorm vacancy rate is even higher now.
Wow! Falling OCR private properties rental has attracted employers to rent private properties for foreign workers and cannibilised the dorms' business!
So the rules changed would give more business to dorms?
“The market is very different now,” says Shamkumar Subramani, CEO of TS Management Services, the operator and co-owner of Tuas View. “It used to be in the $300 range per worker just 12 months ago. Now, it is down to the $200-to-$250 range.”
Generally, companies sign a one-year tenancy agreement, but the operator also offers the flexibility of three- to six-month leases for those with foreign workers on a project basis, he says.
https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/price-war-workers%E2%80%99-dormitories
So many 2bed going for $2k. 3pax in each room. Free parking lot and easier to find girlfriends on Sunday too.:wink-new:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing/property-for-rent/2?property_type_code%5B0%5D=CONDO&property_type_code%5B1%5D=APT&property_type_code%5B2%5D=WALK&property_type_code%5B3%5D=CLUS&property_type_code%5B4%5D=EXCON&property_type=N&maxprice=2000&beds%5B0%5D=2
Including arachon's favorite Terrasse.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/20647250/for-rent-terrasse?ref=ls%7C%7C15%7C2
Changi Court, layout pretty decent.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/5609486/for-rent-changi-court?ref=ls%7C%7C19%7C2
Wow! Falling OCR private properties rental has attracted employers to rent private properties for foreign workers and cannibilised the dorms' business!
So the rules changed would give more business to dorms?
OCR falling rental is always ur concern right? ;)
URA can only level the playing field for dorm operators, whether dorms getting more business is up to market forces. Geylang apts will be a good indicator, must monitor.
“The market is very different now,” says Shamkumar Subramani, CEO of TS Management Services, the operator and co-owner of Tuas View. “It used to be in the $300 range per worker just 12 months ago. Now, it is down to the $200-to-$250 range.”
Generally, companies sign a one-year tenancy agreement, but the operator also offers the flexibility of three- to six-month leases for those with foreign workers on a project basis, he says.
https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/price-war-workers%E2%80%99-dormitories
So many 2bed going for $2k. 3pax in each room. Free parking lot and easier to find girlfriends on Sunday too.:wink-new:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing/property-for-rent/2?property_type_code%5B0%5D=CONDO&property_type_code%5B1%5D=APT&property_type_code%5B2%5D=WALK&property_type_code%5B3%5D=CLUS&property_type_code%5B4%5D=EXCON&property_type=N&maxprice=2000&beds%5B0%5D=2
Including arachon's favorite Terrasse.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/20647250/for-rent-terrasse?ref=ls%7C%7C15%7C2
Changi Court, layout pretty decent.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/5609486/for-rent-changi-court?ref=ls%7C%7C19%7C2
So Smart, I think they only rent Terrasse others too expensive for them to rent.
Before 15 May, 2b $2k / 8pax = $250/pax
After 15 May, 2b $2k / 6pax = $333/pax
Just nice above $300, that was the price of dorm a year ago.
Before this regulation $250 is not far from dorm pricing yet employer still need to arrange transport to fetch them to/fro from Tuas. Time is money. those old Geylang apt/terrace lot of FW, like "mini Chinatown".
URA help them to move to condo. FW need better living place.
Now RES busy looking for FW to rent condo.
Soon you will have mini mart at condo for FW.
anythingwhatever
15-05-17, 19:02
I thought restriction is only hdbs, pte too?
"Workers in the marine and process sectors, including the chemicals and pharmaceutical sectors, will no longer be allowed to be housed in HDB flats from 1 May 2015, said media reports"
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2014/11/73198/foreign-workers-in-certain-sectors-barred-from-pub
Anyway O&G a lot of layoffs, dorm vacancy rate is even higher now.
Manufacturing Sector also affected:
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/new-hdb-rental-rules-for-work-permit-holders
tonymontana
15-05-17, 19:02
Personally, I prefer to rent to couple or small families if I have an MM unit though.
there is a stipulation for private property that each occupant must be accorded space of at least 10sqm , hence for a MM unit , not more than 3-4 per unit. (assuming a 40 sqm unit).
https://www.99.co/blog/singapore/rental-regulations-in-singapore-a-must-know-guide/
Strangely speaking, that rule disappeared from the rulebook.
What's left is only the tenant number.
there is a stipulation for private property that each occupant must be accorded space of at least 10sqm , hence for a MM unit , not more than 3-4 per unit. (assuming a 40 sqm unit).
https://www.99.co/blog/singapore/rental-regulations-in-singapore-a-must-know-guide/
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 20:41
there is a stipulation for private property that each occupant must be accorded space of at least 10sqm , hence for a MM unit , not more than 3-4 per unit. (assuming a 40 sqm unit).
https://www.99.co/blog/singapore/rental-regulations-in-singapore-a-must-know-guide/
yes. that was what sparked off the discussion. the minimum 10 sq m per pax rule is gone.
yes. that was what sparked off the discussion. the minimum 10 sq m per pax rule is gone.
Could also be a sign that more drastic changes are about to be made to our population policy.
Anyway we can only speculate and see what transpires, but it is definitely a good position to be in.
$350 each for 6 in a mickey mouse 1 bedder of 3xx or 4xx sq ft in geylang (where the oversupply is). good yield rite?
1 bedroom + 1 living room can be used for the 6 beds.
That would be unliveable...My 1+1 currently rented to 3 JCU students, still ok...I think max is 4 people in a 452 sq FT space...rented at S$2200 per month at Sims Ave opposite Aljunied Mrt.
I can envisage a 1+study high ceiling unit being compartmentalised into 3 sections but I wonder how comfortable 6 people can be squeezing into it. Maybe if all same gender still possible. Need to customise furniture though.
That would be unliveable...My 1+1 currently rented to 3 JCU students, still ok...I think max is 4 people in a 452 sq FT space...rented at S$2200 per month at Sims Ave opposite Aljunied Mrt.
Mine currently has a queen sized bed in the living room and double decker single beds in master room...so can fit 4 people..
Dining room has a table and sofa for 2...
bargain hunter
15-05-17, 22:35
I can envisage a 1+study high ceiling unit being compartmentalised into 3 sections but I wonder how comfortable 6 people can be squeezing into it. Maybe if all same gender still possible. Need to customise furniture though.
maybe 1 bedder is pushing it. 2 bedder with 2 toilets can try to fit in 6. :courage:
Yeah, my 1+1 only had 1 bathroom and only 452sq ft...3 -4 people already very squeezy...my tenants r young teenage students so not so fussy...
tonymontana
15-05-17, 22:40
4 people in a MM unit! that's tight.
3 actually...but their girlfriends come over...:)
tonymontana
15-05-17, 22:42
yes. that was what sparked off the discussion. the minimum 10 sq m per pax rule is gone.
oh, and right you are too . The 10 sqm per pax is a good rule to have. I thought both new rule (max 6 unrelated persons) and 10 sqm rule apply, but I see URA has indeed removed the 10sqm rule from their circular. definitely weird.
Interesting setup. Thanks for sharing.
I did not quite consider more tenants cos it's likely to create a bigger mess and more headaches later. Contented with basic couple or individual.
Unless sectioning is commonly adopted and proven with good tenant profile or near certain institutions or organization...
Mine currently has a queen sized bed in the living room and double decker single beds in master room...so can fit 4 people..
Dining room has a table and sofa for 2...
Interesting setup. Thanks for sharing.
I did not quite consider more tenants cos it's likely to create a bigger mess and more headaches later. Contented with basic couple or individual.
Unless sectioning is commonly adopted and proven with good tenant profile or near certain institutions or organization...
U r welcomed...took us a few months and we figured instead of renting S$1800 to couples or singles , might as well rent more as 2 bedder...we r lucky as some even rented as Low as S$1700...
The China students r nice...did not even request for a TV and bought their own double decker beds and extra furniture.
Ideas tie in well with ST online front page on Nano flats in HK.
Remember the young always think and behave differently from the older generations.
tonymontana
17-05-17, 11:33
I thought that these MM units are no longer the popular thing to invest in these days given the falling rentals? wonder if that's true and what are the opinions of owners / landlords holding MM units ? anyone?
Based on the messages Govt is sending right now and the current situation, they will be the next in thing again. My speculation only.
So far most of us with this have no issues. Investor friendly.
I thought that these MM units are no longer the popular thing to invest in these days given the falling rentals? wonder if that's true and what are the opinions of owners / landlords holding MM units ? anyone?
tonymontana
17-05-17, 19:02
Based on the messages Govt is sending right now and the current situation, they will be the next in thing again. My speculation only.
So far most of us with this have no issues. Investor friendly.
Good to know.
Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).
Super bull stage, to encourage buyers to hold off purchases, will be to set very high bar for them. They will save and wait.
Once that is over, everything returns to normality. Worldwide modern trend in city everyone starts small.
Good to know.
Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).
anythingwhatever
17-05-17, 20:26
Good to know.
Contrary to what I seem to hear all the time that MM units are too small and only benefit a tiny segment of the populace, these small units are the first to be sold out in many of the new launches. (grandeur park, seaside resi, etc).
Affordability, Higher Yield and Stabilizing Prices:
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-units
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental
tonymontana
17-05-17, 21:12
Affordability, Higher Yield and Stabilizing Prices:
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-units
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental
OK, but a couple of caveats:
1. yields are based on current rentals and current transacted. Not for those bought at higher prices circa 2012-2013 (ie at the height of the shoebox craze)
2. rentals are dropping as we speak.
3. yields calculated do not take into account vacancy rates - which is quite hard to compute based on transactional data. Based on media estimates, you probably have to knock off additional 10% discount on the calculated yields.
Where is viva vista in the list?
Eh as I have shared, I bought in 2012, and prices have continued to rise from then. Both yields and prices have continued to grow.
Rentals have hit a bottom limit in my view because any lower, it would compete directly with HDBs. Any lower, CPF will also easily cover.
These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...
OK, but a couple of caveats:
1. yields are based on current rentals and current transacted. Not for those bought at higher prices circa 2012-2013 (ie at the height of the shoebox craze)
2. rentals are dropping as we speak.
3. yields calculated do not take into account vacancy rates - which is quite hard to compute based on transactional data. Based on media estimates, you probably have to knock off additional 10% discount on the calculated yields.
Where is viva vista in the list?
Correction: Yields fell to 3 plus% as prices have continued to grow.
These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...
I am more interested in Jurong Gateway performance.
The rule will make the cost of production higher. It will make less competitive
tonymontana
17-05-17, 22:08
Eh as I have shared, I bought in 2012, and prices have continued to rise from then. Both yields and prices have continued to grow.
Rentals have hit a bottom limit in my view because any lower, it would compete directly with HDBs. Any lower, CPF will also easily cover.
These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...
don't get me wrong, i 'm not against shoeboxes. What you shared is good to know.
How do you calculate vacancies based on actual electrical bills? I estimate vacancy rate by taking the number of listings on property portal divide by total number of units. It's a rough estimate. Wondering if there is a better way to estimate vacancy.
tonymontana
17-05-17, 22:09
Correction: Yields fell to 3 plus% as prices have continued to grow.
These average yields are actual yields, and vacancies based on actual electrical bill have been on constant trajectory downwards for several quarters since a few quarters back...
I am more interested in Jurong Gateway performance.
You bought J Gateway? I find the psf hard to swallow.
If you got money, what will you do.
1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
2. Buy share
3. Buy property
You bought J Gateway? I find the psf hard to swallow.
Nah, that's our king of OCR, use it to take reading about head of OCR. But recently I think got overtaken.
Mine is one of those on the list of good yields listed.
don't get me wrong, i 'm not against shoeboxes. What you shared is good to know.
How do you calculate vacancies based on actual electrical bills? I estimate vacancy rate by taking the number of listings on property portal divide by total number of units. It's a rough estimate. Wondering if there is a better way to estimate vacancy.
Listing is definitely inaccurate. When I advertised, there were at least 3 duplicate unit post just on one website.
The vacancy based on electrical bill report is by URA. Read the quarterly report 2017Q1.
Now obviously buy shares, so many opportunities and easy to sell (not like OCR private properties, you will be paying HISTORICAL PEAKed PRICE if you buy now and then get stuck for 10+ years before even break-even (not even considering mortgage interest) like those Bishan buyers in 1997?)
If you got money, what will you do.
1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
2. Buy share
3. Buy property
tonymontana
18-05-17, 00:23
If you got money, what will you do.
1. Put in the Bank to wait for depreciation.
2. Buy share
3. Buy property
I have seen older generation did (1) only and as inflation rose as they got older, their lifestyle moved from middle class to lower middle class. (2) and (3) is OK, both have risks. I do think property is the safest, however I do see too many people have their whole life earnings ploughed into property. some people are saying property might crash, however, one thing is for sure, developers are paying higher and higher prices for land banking over the years. Imagine 20 years ago a plot in tanjung rhu was sold for only 300psf ppr, look at the land prices now.
tonymontana
18-05-17, 00:34
Listing is definitely inaccurate. When I advertised, there were at least 3 duplicate unit post just on one website.
The vacancy based on electrical bill report is by URA. Read the quarterly report 2017Q1.
That's average / overall vacancy reported in media, am i right? I'm looking to estimate vacancy for a specific project. Any ideas? I am resorting to ad hoc methods currently (listings count, lights at night, number of shoes outside units etc).
Yes, that is why property developers are most profitable! This is because they just flip papers (sell you just "papers" for properties you buy, so buying land at PEAK price is not a concern to them as long as they can flip quickly to YOU!), and then when property prices CRASH later, it is you who are holding the BABIES (not them)! They already pocketed your money!
No wonder even companies like Popular (sell books), Aspial (sell jewelleries), 2nd Chance (sell clothings) all want to become property developers too!
I have seen older generation did (1) only and as inflation rose as they got older, their lifestyle moved from middle class to lower middle class. (2) and (3) is OK, both have risks. I do think property is the safest, however I do see too many people have their whole life earnings ploughed into property. some people are saying property might crash, however, one thing is for sure, developers are paying higher and higher prices for land banking over the years. Imagine 20 years ago a plot in tanjung rhu was sold for only 300psf ppr, look at the land prices now.
tonymontana
18-05-17, 00:38
Yes, that is why property developers are most profitable!
No wonder even companies like Popular (sell books), Aspial (sell jewelleries), 2nd Chance (sell clothings) all turn to become developers!
Don't buy brand new from developers. Buy resale, older freehold properties, in good locations.
When one is able to figure out the motivation those behind buying new launches, he is also able to see if there is indeed bullishness in this market.
Teddy seems to be ranting all the times, but he is honest.
Most of us here are honest; it's just we see a different side of the coin.
When one is able to figure out the motivation those behind buying new launches, he is also able to see if there is indeed bullishness in this market.
Teddy seems to be ranting all the times, but he is honest.
New cap on tenants for private homes, deadline looms for agents, landlords to ink deals
MAY 13, 2017
From Monday, landlords can rent out to no more than six unrelated persons; no change to HDB cap
Ng Jun Sen
When she moved out of her family home last year, Ms Yvette Lim, 34, thought she could eventually sublet her old bedroom to help her family pay the rent.
With a floor area of 4,500 sq ft, her spacious Choa Chu Kang house, where six of her family members now live, could easily accommodate a few more tenants, she calculated.
But her plans have been dashed.
From Monday, landlords can rent out private homes to no more than six unrelated persons. If there are six related people living in the residence, no tenants are allowed.
The move reduces the occupancy cap from eight previously.
Existing tenancy agreements with seven or eight tenants will be allowed to run their course until May 15, 2019, but after that, the rules will kick in regardless of the contract's expiration date, said the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) in a letter on Thursday to registered property agents .
For HDB flats, the maximum sub-tenants allowed for a three-room unit and a four-room or bigger unit remain unchanged, at six and nine respectively.
Ms Lim, an administrative assistant, told The Straits Times: "Eight was just nice for us, but it's a pity now because the house will be quite empty. One of the five bedrooms will be unused."
Responding to queries from The Straits Times, a URA spokesman said the rule change ensures that residential premises are "consistent with the character of the local community and integrate better with the neighbourhood".
He added that it takes into account "the strong supply of alternative accommodation" that caters to non-familial groups of occupants, such as hostels for students and dormitories for company employees.
Some residents and property watchers The Straits Times spoke to welcomed the move, saying it will reduce disruption and noise caused by overcrowded units.
PropNex Realty chief executive officer Ismail Gafoor said: "Private properties are meant to be exclusive, with owners of the development having the quiet enjoyment of the facilities and lifestyle. In order to maintain this exclusivity, the cap of six tenants is reasonable."
However, landlords such as Mr Peter Chiado not agree. The retiree, who is in his 60s, relies on rental income from his four-bedroom unit in Pacific Mansion in the River Valley area. He lives there with five tenants and hopes to get two more.
Mr Chia will have to take down his advertisement if he is unable to rent out the empty bedroom in his 1,500 sq ft apartment by Monday. This is a loss of $900 to $1,200 in potential monthly rent, he said.
The new rule will also affect home-sharing such as Airbnb. The URA is studying the option of creating a new category of private homes that will allow short-term rentals.
An occupancy cap of six means that future home-sharing hosts will not be able to lease out an apartment to, say, two large families, said International Property Advisor CEO Ku Swee Yong.
Some analysts wondered if the occupancy cap could have better reflected the size of the home.
Said Cushman & Wakefield research director Christine Li: "A better implementation could have been to peg occupancy caps to the number of bedrooms, similar to that for HDB flats."
URA said this is not the case as there are various types of private property, from small apartments to bungalows. Said a spokesman: "We have simplified the control for greater clarity to the public by not adopting a stratified occupancy cap control based on unit sizes."
Thursday's announcement gave three days for real estate agents to react and could trigger a surge in rental contracts being renewed or signed over the weekend, said ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim.
On social media, some agents have started asking landlords with a sizeable number of tenants to quickly renew their tenancy pacts.
Said Mr Lim: "We have not seen any surge of sign-ups yet, but we do not rule out that some landlords will try (to do so) over the next few days, before May 15 arrives."
Mr Lim believes HDB occupancy caps may soon follow suit.
"There is a possibility that HDB may align the caps accordingly since the spirit of this rule change is to prevent overcrowding within residential units," he said.
anythingwhatever
21-05-17, 09:57
[B][SIZE=5]
Mr Lim believes HDB occupancy caps may soon follow suit.
"There is a possibility that HDB may align the caps accordingly since the spirit of this rule change is to prevent overcrowding within residential units," he said.
Next question: How soon will HDB follow suit?
Looks more like a matter of when than if....
Next question: How soon will HDB follow suit?
Looks more like a matter of when than if....
HDB already got strict rules for subletting, the number is just to calibrate to ensure FW not using Condo as Dormitory.
Subletting period
The minimum subletting period for each subtenant must be 6 months per application. You are not allowed to sublet your flat or bedroom on a short-term basis as it may disrupt the living environment and pose security concerns for our residents.
The subletting period is indicated in the approval letter, up to a maximum of 3 years if all the subtenants are Singaporeans or Malaysians. The maximum is capped at 1.5 years for non-Malaysian non-citizen subtenants. Non-citizens refer to Singapore Permanent Residents and foreigners. You are required to reapply for approval each time you sublet your flat or renew the subletting application.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/renting-out-a-flat-room/renting-out-your-flat/subletting-regulations
anythingwhatever
22-05-17, 10:28
HDB already got strict rules for subletting, the number is just to calibrate to ensure FW not using Condo as Dormitory.
Subletting period
The minimum subletting period for each subtenant must be 6 months per application. You are not allowed to sublet your flat or bedroom on a short-term basis as it may disrupt the living environment and pose security concerns for our residents.
The subletting period is indicated in the approval letter, up to a maximum of 3 years if all the subtenants are Singaporeans or Malaysians. The maximum is capped at 1.5 years for non-Malaysian non-citizen subtenants. Non-citizens refer to Singapore Permanent Residents and foreigners. You are required to reapply for approval each time you sublet your flat or renew the subletting application.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/renting-out-a-flat-room/renting-out-your-flat/subletting-regulations
Oh, I meant the current cap of Max 9 tenants in HDB... Maybe down to 6 soon like Private?
Responding to queries from The Straits Times, a URA spokesman said the rule change ensures that residential premises are "consistent with the character of the local community and integrate better with the neighbourhood".
He added that it takes into account "the strong supply of alternative accommodation" that caters to non-familial groups of occupants, such as hostels for students and dormitories for company employees.
The new rule will also affect home-sharing such as Airbnb. The URA is studying the option of creating a new category of private homes that will allow short-term rentals.
The logic behind the move if consistent should already outlaw airbnb.
Oh, I meant the current cap of Max 9 tenants in HDB... Maybe down to 6 soon like Private?
Possible, when dormitory charge 250 per head.
challenger
22-05-17, 22:00
Do you think there will be impact to dual-key units?
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