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frumnat
27-06-17, 10:40
So over one conversation on property, a friend lamented the private property prices in Singapore is VERY HIGH and decided not to commit to a condo and just decided to stay put in his HDB flat. But he went to say he just changed his car to a MERCEDES COUPE and his wife just bought a BRAND NEW Japanese car. Wow, I just smiled and went “Oh, right…..!”

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 10:54
So over one conversation on property, a friend lamented the private property prices in Singapore is VERY HIGH and decided not to commit to a condo and just decided to stay put in his HDB flat. But he went to say he just changed his car to a MERCEDES COUPE and his wife just bought a BRAND NEW Japanese car. Wow, I just smiled and went “Oh, right…..!”

Please do remember to thank him for donating to Singapore's economy the most.

We need more people to buy cars actually.

frumnat
27-06-17, 11:08
Please do remember to thank him for donating to Singapore's economy the most.

We need more people to buy cars actually.

Lol... Between a nice car and a next pte property, what would you buy? :D

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 11:54
Lol... Between a nice car and a next pte property, what would you buy? :D

Millenials would definitely buy cars first.

frumnat
27-06-17, 12:09
Millenials would definitely buy cars first.

My friend is gen x though...

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 12:41
My friend is gen x though...

Gen X might prefer to buy flat first, then buy car.

Millenials may choose to buy car first without flat.

But we are stereotyping a little.

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 15:02
Lol... Between a nice car and a next pte property, what would you buy? :D

Sorry, forgot to answer your question.

I would secure property first then buy the cheapest MIJ new car I can find. By the time the MIJ car is traded in or renewed, I would have recouped the cost of the car running errands and sidelines, at the same time buying one or two more properties.

After that, should be trade in car to buy another to accommodate growing family size if I can afford, or secure an old car to renew. After that max one more property.

After that, how many more ten years do you have?

Cars overall "tax" is probably 400% of its cost price, get one already a luxury in SG, why buy two per family?

frumnat
27-06-17, 15:43
Sorry, forgot to answer your question.

I would secure property first then buy the cheapest MIJ new car I can find. By the time the MIJ car is traded in or renewed, I would have recouped the cost of the car running errands and sidelines, at the same time buying one or two more properties.

After that, should be trade in car to buy another to accommodate growing family size if I can afford, or secure an old car to renew. After that max one more property.

After that, how many more ten years do you have?

Cars overall "tax" is probably 400% of its cost price, get one already a luxury in SG, why buy two per family?

My sentiments exactly. Just waiting for you to say that! :)

Singaporeans are infatuated with property and car. MANY ones however prioritise the latter which is one of the worst investments, even if it can qualify as one. It’s all so common to see people live in HDB flats and drive Mercedes S-class, Jaguar or even Porsche. All the annual depreciation and running costs… I simply don’t get it. After 10 years, a car get scrapped or renewed. After 10 years, a property loan gets pared down by approx. 1/3. It’s not difficult math.

frumnat
27-06-17, 15:44
Having said all I said, Mercedes coupe is darn chio! Lol

star
27-06-17, 16:02
When u r buying a $100k car u r spending another $100k for petrol, maintenance, parking, insurance, road tax, erp, fines, loan interest if any over a period of 10yrs. Total about $200k

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 16:37
When u r buying a $100k car u r spending another $100k for petrol, maintenance, parking, insurance, road tax, erp, fines, loan interest if any over a period of 10yrs. Total about $200k

I doubt it is another 100K. Maybe 50K to 80K more. Insurance 10-15K, petrol 24-36K, ERP can be avoided if one strategises his location or travel patterns, parking another 6-20K (mostly can be avoided if live in private estate), maintenance another 10-20K.

Again it depends on how it is being used. A family of 4 or 5 can justify a 160K private transport budget over 10 years because 5 separate public transport use will trend toward or more than 100K over the same period. The additional 50-80K is expenditure to buy time and comfort.

The additional 80K bill per 10 years can be easily justified through living in a much more private estate not that well served by public transport, with a "not near MRT or public transport" discount of 10% or more. At least that's how I justify it.

The costs were easier to justify 10 years ago, but now, one can use Grab or Uber to justify further.

frumnat
27-06-17, 16:37
When u r buying a $100k car u r spending another $100k for petrol, maintenance, parking, insurance, road tax, erp, fines, loan interest if any over a period of 10yrs. Total about $200k

Just nice for a D9 1BR downpayment...

PropVestor
27-06-17, 17:19
My sentiments exactly. Just waiting for you to say that! :)

It’s all so common to see people live in HDB flats and drive Mercedes S-class, Jaguar or even Porsche.

I have friends who are like that and their logic is this. They do not carry their HDB around but you get to see their car(s)! They drive their Beemers and Audi A6 back to their HDB. Nothing wrong with that but it can be weird to sometimes see more luxury cars in HDB carpark than a private condo one. Jurong West Blk 3XX has a Bentley parked there with season parking.

I drive an old Honda and I get approached by Uber sales folks to join their team! I am sure they do not get that. I guess its all about image and first impression which is 'priceless' for them. You should have seen my expression when they asked me 'have you heard of uber driver program?'. That was an interesting experience at Seah Im Carpark.

2 cents,
PropVestor

frumnat
27-06-17, 17:19
I doubt it is another 100K. Maybe 50K to 80K more. Insurance 10-15K, petrol 24-36K, ERP can be avoided if one strategises his location or travel patterns, parking another 6-20K (mostly can be avoided if live in private estate), maintenance another 10-20K.

Again it depends on how it is being used. A family of 4 or 5 can justify a 160K private transport budget over 10 years because 5 separate public transport use will trend toward or more than 100K over the same period. The additional 50-80K is expenditure to buy time and comfort.

The additional 80K bill per 10 years can be easily justified through living in a much more private estate not that well served by public transport, with a "not near MRT or public transport" discount of 10% or more. At least that's how I justify it.

The costs were easier to justify 10 years ago, but now, one can use Grab or Uber to justify further.

If I have my way, I will do without car and just rely on Grab and Uber. So convenient to call on my phone and no need to wait or park when I reach my destination. A bonus to you if the driver can stop anywhere indiscriminately just for you. Haha!

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 17:26
Agree as well. Cars and properties are getting to be personal and individual preferences. Everyone work their Maths separately.

I haven't got to Uber / Grab yet both as driver or as passenger, but its a possible retirement job I am keeping in view.


If I have my way, I will do without car and just rely on Grab and Uber. So convenient to call on my phone and no need to wait or park when I reach my destination. A bonus to you if the driver can stop anywhere indiscriminately just for you. Haha!

teddybear
27-06-17, 17:26
Are you talking from experience?

Anyway, my experience is that other than price of a car, the other running costs will total average about $1k pm, $12k per year, so $120k over 10 years (so can't be $50k-$80k).



I doubt it is another 100K. Maybe 50K to 80K more. Insurance 10-15K, petrol 24-36K, ERP can be avoided if one strategises his location or travel patterns, parking another 6-20K (mostly can be avoided if live in private estate), maintenance another 10-20K.

Again it depends on how it is being used. A family of 4 or 5 can justify a 160K private transport budget over 10 years because 5 separate public transport use will trend toward or more than 100K over the same period. The additional 50-80K is expenditure to buy time and comfort.

The additional 80K bill per 10 years can be easily justified through living in a much more private estate not that well served by public transport, with a "not near MRT or public transport" discount of 10% or more. At least that's how I justify it.

The costs were easier to justify 10 years ago, but now, one can use Grab or Uber to justify further.

frumnat
27-06-17, 17:41
I have friends who are like that and their logic is this. They do not carry their HDB around but you get to see their car(s)! They drive their Beemers and Audi A6 back to their HDB. Nothing wrong with that but it can be weird to sometimes see more luxury cars in HDB carpark than a private condo one. Jurong West Blk 3XX has a Bentley parked there with season parking.

I drive an old Honda and I get approached by Uber sales folks to join their team! I am sure they do not get that. I guess its all about image and first impression which is 'priceless' for them. You should have seen my expression when they asked me 'have you heard of uber driver program?'. That was an interesting experience at Seah Im Carpark.

2 cents,
PropVestor

Wah Bentley takes the cake! I suspect the HDB dwellers who drive swanky cars are probably second hand car dealers. Then again everyone has their right to spend their own hard earned money… Makes money sense or not is another issue. I have heard of the logic of driving car around and not the house but I don’t buy it. Just doesn’t make financial sense…. But I agree have face lah. Audi A6 also very chio!

Kelonguni
27-06-17, 18:23
You need to forgive my MIJ OCR travel experience.

The past 10 year experience was even lower actually, but I was projecting costs to go up in the years ahead.

By the way, which is the conti car you use to drive around the CCR estate?




Are you talking from experience?

Anyway, my experience is that other than price of a car, the other running costs will total average about $1k pm, $12k per year, so $120k over 10 years (so can't be $50k-$80k).

frumnat
28-06-17, 08:57
You need to forgive my MIJ OCR travel experience.

The past 10 year experience was even lower actually, but I was projecting costs to go up in the years ahead.

By the way, which is the conti car you use to drive around the CCR estate?

A relative once drove BMW X6 and Volvo S90. If not for deep pockets, the cars will so easily die of thirst.

Wonder what teddybear drives? 7-series?

tonymontana
28-06-17, 09:53
Wah Bentley takes the cake! I suspect the HDB dwellers who drive swanky cars are probably second hand car dealers. Then again everyone has their right to spend their own hard earned money… Makes money sense or not is another issue. I have heard of the logic of driving car around and not the house but I don’t buy it. Just doesn’t make financial sense…. But I agree have face lah. Audi A6 also very chio!

For me, I just like the feel when driving a Beemer , audi or merc, even though they cost a bomb. japan car no kick lah. has nothing to do with financial sense, YOLO right.

tonymontana
28-06-17, 10:11
A relative once drove BMW X6 and Volvo S90. If not for deep pockets, the cars will so easily die of thirst.

Wonder what teddybear drives? 7-series?

it's not the petrol, but rather the maintenance on these cars are quite high. then again, maintaining a subaru or a honda isn't cheap either. coupled with the COE these days, cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. however i lasted only a month when i went car-less a while back. so there.

PropVestor
28-06-17, 10:45
I guess its tough when you need to ferry elderly and children around. Where I live there is no MRT (TEL is still some years away) or even a bus stop within 15 minutes walk. Blame it on my choice of location then.

So Tonymontana, I know what you mean.

frumnat
28-06-17, 10:48
For me, I just like the feel when driving a Beemer , audi or merc, even though they cost a bomb. japan car no kick lah. has nothing to do with financial sense, YOLO right.

Guess I am practical. I like as many properties as possible. Like you say, YOLO dei...!

frumnat
28-06-17, 10:54
I guess its tough when you need to ferry elderly and children around. Where I live there is no MRT (TEL is still some years away) or even a bus stop within 15 minutes walk. Blame it on my choice of location then.

So Tonymontana, I know what you mean.

Sounds like landed location. Yup it’s tough especially if your house is tucked far right in a serene corner. I agree during the times I need to ferry elderly and children, having a car is such blessing and I thank God for it. :D

frumnat
28-06-17, 10:59
I remember going to an acquaintance’s GCB once. I pity the FDWs if they are not ferried to the main road outside. Even riding bicycle is dangerous because of the steep slopes leading to the house.

PropVestor
28-06-17, 11:09
For me, I just like the feel when driving a Beemer , audi or merc, even though they cost a bomb. japan car no kick lah. has nothing to do with financial sense, YOLO right.

I cannot imagine Al Pacino in a non-continental. It has to be black and tinted windows too. Real badass black M5 maybe?

Kelonguni
28-06-17, 11:13
Sounds like landed location. Yup it’s tough especially if your house is tucked far right in a serene corner. I agree during the times I need to ferry elderly and children, having a car is such blessing and I thank God for it. :D

I do see a trend of some Singaporeans getting a little sick and tired of the amenities and the hustle and bustle.

This peace and serenity in Singapore, even with a bit of inconvenience, may get to be more treasured as we readjust priorities, especially when such adjustments come also with a reduction in prices.

That's the gap a car helps to fill.

But it might or might not work out for rental propositions, dependent on lots of other factors.

tonymontana
28-06-17, 11:31
I cannot imagine Al Pacino in a non-continental. It has to be black and tinted windows too. Real badass black M5 maybe?

Haha, no lah. just a basic model, buying used saves a lot. also, . some of the components on these cars break down at an alarming rate. so much for german tech.
my point was that car is an expense, same as restaurant meals, drinking at pubs, holidays etc.

frumnat
28-06-17, 11:38
Haha, no lah. just a basic model, buying used saves a lot. also, . some of the components on these cars break down at an alarming rate. so much for german tech.
my point was that car is an expense, same as restaurant meals, drinking at pubs, holidays etc.

What expenses? My wife says restaurant meals and holidays are for experience. Lol

PropVestor
28-06-17, 11:40
If for some God given chance that my place get the en-bloc (I know fat hope), what do you think of such a development? Would you pay $4mil+ (FH) for this? Not entirely exclusive and you get 2 carpark lots per unit and swimming pool.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/14897404/for-sale-seven-crescent-freehold-cluster-bungalow

In a rather quiet location (still need a car or two) but 8 mins walk to future Tanjong Katong MRT. Its just a stone throw away from my current place and I kinda like the area. Im sorry to OT from car thread but we need to tie back to properties somehow right?

Gurus, please speak.

PropVestor
28-06-17, 11:50
Haha, no lah. just a basic model, buying used saves a lot. also, . some of the components on these cars break down at an alarming rate. so much for german tech.
my point was that car is an expense, same as restaurant meals, drinking at pubs, holidays etc.

A basic M5 is still a M5. haha

tonymontana
28-06-17, 23:55
If for some God given chance that my place get the en-bloc (I know fat hope), what do you think of such a development? Would you pay $4mil+ (FH) for this? Not entirely exclusive and you get 2 carpark lots per unit and swimming pool.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/14897404/for-sale-seven-crescent-freehold-cluster-bungalow

In a rather quiet location (still need a car or two) but 8 mins walk to future Tanjong Katong MRT. Its just a stone throw away from my current place and I kinda like the area. Im sorry to OT from car thread but we need to tie back to properties somehow right?

Gurus, please speak.

I love that location, but 7 crescent is cluster houses, not really a "bungalow". I would rather go for a individual titled house in the same neighbourhood. A 3400 sft (land) semi-dee is "ONLY" 5M (jalan seaview). BTW this is just talking for fun, there is no way I can afford either. :p

frumnat
29-06-17, 10:24
I love that location, but 7 crescent is cluster houses, not really a "bungalow". I would rather go for a individual titled house in the same neighbourhood. A 3400 sft (land) semi-dee is "ONLY" 5M (jalan seaview). BTW this is just talking for fun, there is no way I can afford either. :p

There are lots of fans of cluster housing. Personally, I would go for all or nothing. All meaning full facilities condo. Nothing as in detached house without shared facilities.

aspirations
29-06-17, 12:30
lived along Jalan Seaview for a large part of my life
amazing area, now made even better and more accessible with Tanjong Katong MRT at the doorstep (but have to wait 5 more years la)
I think an old semi-d in the area will set u back $5m.. while some of the newly renovated ones will be up to $6m+.. still, probably a better investment than 7 crescent which much of the exclusiveness is tainted by the fact that its cluster housing

if u have even more $$$ to spare, u can even try peach garden (nice bungalows in there), or the goodman/ branksome area... or even the less talked about Walton/Clacton road houses which are v v atas

frumnat
29-06-17, 13:42
lived along Jalan Seaview for a large part of my life
amazing area, now made even better and more accessible with Tanjong Katong MRT at the doorstep (but have to wait 5 more years la)
I think an old semi-d in the area will set u back $5m.. while some of the newly renovated ones will be up to $6m+.. still, probably a better investment than 7 crescent which much of the exclusiveness is tainted by the fact that its cluster housing

if u have even more $$$ to spare, u can even try peach garden (nice bungalows in there), or the goodman/ branksome area... or even the less talked about Walton/Clacton road houses which are v v atas

Love the houses in those areas. Nice, big and atas! But I am a very practical person. The property has to be a home (and double up as good investment) and not just a house.

Coming back to my original point – I would prioritise spending on a private property FIRST before spending on a nice continental car.

I know many think otherwise but that is just my personal thought.

PropVestor
29-06-17, 16:40
lived along Jalan Seaview for a large part of my life
amazing area, now made even better and more accessible with Tanjong Katong MRT at the doorstep (but have to wait 5 more years la)
I think an old semi-d in the area will set u back $5m.. while some of the newly renovated ones will be up to $6m+.. still, probably a better investment than 7 crescent which much of the exclusiveness is tainted by the fact that its cluster housing

if u have even more $$$ to spare, u can even try peach garden (nice bungalows in there), or the goodman/ branksome area... or even the less talked about Walton/Clacton road houses which are v v atas

Looks like we are neighbours. The recent revamps of the D and semi-Ds in the last 10 years has been tremendous.

I have friends living along Peach Garden and I know what you mean about large, spacious and quiet bungalows. The price also very nice.

Whenever I ride my bicycle to CCHS in Goodman Road when I was a teenager, I never thought much about the houses there. Eyed one at Arthur Road some years ago but finances did not check out. Now it is 9-10mil per pop.

Again, let me dream about the en-bloc first....keep day dreaming.

Thanks for the comments. I also agree that holding back on an expensive car is one of the best decision I made today like what frumnat mentioned. But I do get the look-downs amongst my peers. Suck thumb.

PropVestor