View Full Version : D9 and D11, which district is better?
Hi, I am a newbie in this forum and I am now looking for a condo in the central region for own use, budget is about 1.8-2m.
Initially, I want to look for an old freehold condo in D9 (2-3 rooms).
However, after looking for several units in D9, my agent suggests me to look for condo in D11 and keep saying that D11 is better than D9 for school network and future growth potential. I note that the price for D11 condo is similar to that in D9, so I am confuse whether D11 is really better than D9 in term of growth potential.
I would like to obtain the views from all of you before making the decision. Thanks.
Hi, I am a newbie in this forum and I am now looking for a condo in the central region for own use, budget is about 1.8-2m.
Initially, I want to look for an old freehold condo in D9 (2-3 rooms).
However, after looking for several units in D9, my agent suggests me to look for condo in D11 and keep saying that D11 is better than D9 for school network and future growth potential. I note that the price for D11 condo is similar to that in D9, so I am confuse whether D11 is really better than D9 in term of growth potential.
I would like to obtain the views from all of you before making the decision. Thanks.
With the limited inform, this is the view from me.
Nobody know which area got better growth potential, if anyone know they must be very rich.
tonymontana
26-07-17, 20:19
Hi, I am a newbie in this forum and I am now looking for a condo in the central region for own use, budget is about 1.8-2m.
Initially, I want to look for an old freehold condo in D9 (2-3 rooms).
However, after looking for several units in D9, my agent suggests me to look for condo in D11 and keep saying that D11 is better than D9 for school network and future growth potential. I note that the price for D11 condo is similar to that in D9, so I am confuse whether D11 is really better than D9 in term of growth potential.
I would like to obtain the views from all of you before making the decision. Thanks.
both good, just different type of living.
D9 is more for happening , cosmopolitan city living. bars, dining, shopping.
D11 is more for peaceful, more family oriented activity, good schools .
if it's for own use, there must be a reason you chose D9. So contrast whatever image you have of living near orcahrd vs say watten estate.
Why must you consider D9 and D11 only. Why not other areas? Look closely at the Masterplan and you will know when and where to buy next.
Why must you consider D9 and D11 only. Why not other areas? Look closely at the Masterplan and you will know when and where to buy next.
I studied the master plan but dunno when and where to buy?
Many people asking me this question, and I just have no answer
anythingwhatever
26-07-17, 23:48
I studied the master plan but dunno when and where to buy?
Many people asking me this question, and I just have no answer
Buy Geylang or Jurong best. :p
There is no one single answer.
It depends on purpose and time frame to look at.
What's one's age, stability of income, size of income, family situations...
One man's meat may be another's poison. No need to advise actually.
As long as it meets one's objective of purchase. There is a reason why it's called real estate. But what's reality differs from person to person.
tonymontana
27-07-17, 08:44
Buy Geylang or Jurong best. :p
both district i dislike. Geylang will always be geylang, stigma is there. and Jurong is overpriced.
I'd go for D15 for growth story. it's near enough to PLQ.
tonymontana
27-07-17, 08:53
I studied the master plan but dunno when and where to buy?
Many people asking me this question, and I just have no answer
me neither. i just go with gut feeling. and my gut feeling tells me i prefer d9 for investment , own stay i prefer d10 or d11.
(although all three d9,10,11 are great investment areas)
I will look for PLAB flight path property.
I will look for PLAB flight path property.
I already got one in the bag.
http://www.maphotosg.com/constraints-rsaf-air-bases/
Many thanks to all of you.
Several points of feedback:
1) I open this topic is to verify what my property agent say - D11 is better than D9 in term of schools and future growth potential, is true or not. The answer is for schools it may be true, but for growth potential D9 vs D11 vs other districts, there is no clear answer.
2) Why I only look for D9 & D11? It is because I work in Raffles Place and I want to buy a condo that is near my office.
Currently, I live in the countryside and spend 1 hour (door to door) x 2 everyday in transportation, which is painful.
I also note that the prices (per sqft) in other districts are quite similar to D9 & D11, e.g. Tanjong Pagar (little bit higher than D9), Telok Blangah (little bit lower), Tiong bahru (similar), Queenstown (little bit lower but no freehold), parkway parade (little bit lower but far from my office), Bishan & Toa payoh (both are little bit lower but far from my office). It seems that D9 & D11 are better in terms of price & environment compare with other districts.
3) As I only have limited budget and the market seems movement now, I decide to pick the condos in both districts as long as it can fit my budget and look nice.
new2mondrian
27-07-17, 13:09
Depends on what you like. Personally I like D9 better. Walkable to Orchard/Somerset, lots of F&B options especially if your apartment is near Robertson Quay, tonnes of FH/999 years options and nearer to Raffles Place. Budget wise, it is doable to find a decent 3-bedroom condo that is 10-15 years old in that area. Happy hunting.
stalingrad
27-07-17, 21:35
Depends on what you like. Personally I like D9 better. Walkable to Orchard/Somerset, lots of F&B options especially if your apartment is near Robertson Quay, tonnes of FH/999 years options and nearer to Raffles Place. Budget wise, it is doable to find a decent 3-bedroom condo that is 10-15 years old in that area. Happy hunting.
Why is it such a big deal that it is walkable to Orchard/sumerset? What is there that is worth your time to visit? Orchard/Sumerset is dying a slow death. No one goes there except those looking for a hooker.
People like you are only suitable to live in the OCR to squeeze with the foreign workers....... :playful:
Why is it such a big deal that it is walkable to Orchard/sumerset? What is there that is worth your time to visit? Orchard/Sumerset is dying a slow death. No one goes there except those looking for a hooker.
Many thanks to all of you.
Several points of feedback:
1) I open this topic is to verify what my property agent say - D11 is better than D9 in term of schools and future growth potential, is true or not. The answer is for schools it may be true, but for growth potential D9 vs D11 vs other districts, there is no clear answer.
2) Why I only look for D9 & D11? It is because I work in Raffles Place and I want to buy a condo that is near my office.
Currently, I live in the countryside and spend 1 hour (door to door) x 2 everyday in transportation, which is painful.
in both districts as long as it can fit my budget and look nice.
If u have children, it would be more painful for the children on the road than you. So D11 is better than D9 if ur thinking and your children can get into those schools. If not D9 would be a better one.
On top of this, u may change job....then ru going to change your house as well
BTW..getting a grab could be a cheaper choice.
I studied the master plan but dunno when and where to buy?
Many people asking me this question, and I just have no answer
Laguna, you hear?
Buy where it is getting more and moar congested.
You mean like Payar Lebar where for the past 10 years the traffic is already very heavily congested, and it will become even more heavily congested because Gov want to make it a 2nd CBD and it is becoming a huge construction site BUT there is no space to widen the roads there?
Think I have a good idea: Ban all heavy vehicles and lorries within that area and make them transport goods by MRT, oh hack!, might as well ban all vehicles within that area and everybody takes MRT and transport goods by MRT, and congestion problem solved! Like that Gov don't have to spend a single cent to expand roads and can still collect more money from THOUSAND years historical peak land sale price! :applouse:
Laguna, you hear?
Buy where it is getting more and moar congested.
Laguna, you hear?
Buy where it is getting more and moar congested.
yaya, I am here..
congested ? depends on which sector of population ur talking about.
Hospital is the worst...then perhaps..old folks home and then hawker centre
Look at Cairnhill....block to block...forget about it...I need space and peace to have a proper life
You can try here:
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/place/Jln+Arnap/
Quiet landed area within 500m from Orchard MRT station and Ion.
It is like you go from a bustling shopping area into a peaceful quiet heaven..........
If you wanted condos, then it could be here:
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/dir/''/paterson+residence+google+map/
(choose the pool view units)
or
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/dir/''/paterson+suites+google+map/
The above are all RARE freehold landed and private condos in CCR within Orchard area, near Singapore's bustling prime shopping belt and yet located in a quiet and peaceful corner (not congested area).
yaya, I am here..
congested ? depends on which sector of population ur talking about.
Hospital is the worst...then perhaps..old folks home and then hawker centre
Look at Cairnhill....block to block...forget about it...I need space and peace to have a proper life
What's more, condos like Paterson Suites and Paterson Residences are now going for $2300 psf or less, they are all FREEHOLD, and much more value for money and in more prestigeous locations along Paterson Road / Paterson Hill area (just opposite Singapore most expensive private condo, The MarQ @Paterson, which once sold at $6840 psf!),
as compared to Martin Moderns, a 99-years leasehold private condo also selling at $2300+ psf (the HIGHEST PRICED condo in that area despite being 99-years leasehold surrounded by mostly freehold properties), in a much lousier location, near a noisy temple and much further from Ochard shopping area and MRT station.
You can try here:
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/place/Jln+Arnap/
Quiet landed area within 500m from Orchard MRT station and Ion.
It is like you go from a bustling shopping area into a peaceful quiet heaven..........
If you wanted condos, then it could be here:
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/dir/''/paterson+residence+google+map/
(choose the pool view units)
or
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/dir/''/paterson+suites+google+map/
The above are all RARE freehold landed and private condos in CCR within Orchard area, near Singapore's bustling prime shopping belt and yet located in a quiet and peaceful corner (not congested area).
You know there value properties that are busy on weekdays but quiet on weekend with garment pumping in lots of money in the next 5-10 years.
yaya, I am here..
congested ? depends on which sector of population ur talking about.
Hospital is the worst...then perhaps..old folks home and then hawker centre
Look at Cairnhill....block to block...forget about it...I need space and peace to have a proper life
You mean like Payar Lebar where for the past 10 years the traffic is already very heavily congested, and it will become even more heavily congested because Gov want to make it a 2nd CBD and it is becoming a huge construction site BUT there is no space to widen the roads there?
Think I have a good idea: Ban all heavy vehicles and lorries within that area and make them transport goods by MRT, oh hack!, might as well ban all vehicles within that area and everybody takes MRT and transport goods by MRT, and congestion problem solved! Like that Gov don't have to spend a single cent to expand roads and can still collect more money from THOUSAND years historical peak land sale price! :applouse:
Not I said one.
yaya, I am here..
congested ? depends on which sector of population ur talking about.
Hospital is the worst...then perhaps..old folks home and then hawker centre
Look at Cairnhill....block to block...forget about it...I need space and peace to have a proper life
True.
Then Landed should be the option for you.
tonymontana
30-07-17, 12:25
Laguna, you hear?
Buy where it is getting more and moar congested.
singapore property in general, blue chip investment within this region.
and furthermore - d9,10,11 - blue chip investment within this island.
so anywhere in those three district should be good!
furthermore TS is looking for older freehold condo, and prices have dropped for 16 quarters.
should be quite safe, No?
tonymontana
30-07-17, 12:31
What's more, condos like Paterson Suites and Paterson Residences are now going for $2300 psf or less, they are all FREEHOLD, and much more value for money and in more prestigeous locations along Paterson Road / Paterson Hill area (just opposite Singapore most expensive private condo, The MarQ @Paterson, which once sold at $6840 psf!),
as compared to Martin Moderns, a 99-years leasehold private condo also selling at $2300+ psf (the HIGHEST PRICED condo in that area despite being 99-years leasehold surrounded by mostly freehold properties), in a much lousier location, near a noisy temple and much further from Ochard shopping area and MRT station.
1000 years 1000% Agree. Good pick, however check the quantum. The problem is the quantum. at 4m a pop for PS you could get a reasonable freehold house, No?
that's why i said before, if I'm worth 30m , things are different.
as compared to Martin Moderns, a 99-years leasehold private condo also selling at $2300+ psf .
My agent took me to visit Martin Modern show flats last weekend. The condo is very pretty. During my 1 hour visit, 5 units had been sold out.
As the market is moving now.........I just wonder if it is good to buy one unit of Martin Modern or continue looking for the 2nd hand condo (most of the units that I have visited are 2nd or 3rd floor =.=).........
new2mondrian
31-07-17, 18:56
With budget of $1.8-2mil, you can consider the nearby FH Oleanas Residences (the high floor units have pretty much unblocked views, and some can see the Marina Bay Area); or Aspen Heights which is 999years.
However, Aspen is a huge development, hence chances of enbloc can be remote. For Aspen, the ones facing Oxley have pretty much unblocked views of Orchard/Somerset/Dhoby Ghaut area too.
Japanese and Koreans somehow love that area due to its proximity to Liang Court, so if your unit comes with a bathroom that has a bathtub, do remember to keep the bathtub. This is a priority for the Japs.
Temple wise, it is quite ok in terms of noise. Not much foot traffic there, except for some elderly folks who go there on the 1st/15th day of lunar calendar. They are not rowdy, and most come via public transport. It is a pretty nice area to live in. Away from the truly noisy/rowdy crowd (esp during Soccer season) at Robertson Quay, but walkable. Fort Canning station (DTL) is not far (before Liang Court), or Somerset MRT (NSL) is also walkable. Fort Canning Hill is awesome for evening strolls too.
Go walk around the neighbourhood. Most of the FH/999 year condos there are around $1450-$1600 psf, and $1.8-2m can get you a decent sized 3-bedder. Good luck with your search!
[QUOTE=new2mondrian;529384]FH Oleanas Residences or Aspen Heights [QUOTE]
I will ask my agent to arrange a visit to these 2 condo.
BTW, in my case, your opinion is that getting a relatively old Freehold/999yr condo unit (such as Oleanas Residences or Aspen Heights) is better than buying a new 99yr unit (such as Martin Modern), right?
new2mondrian
01-08-17, 11:26
[QUOTE=new2mondrian;529384]FH Oleanas Residences or Aspen Heights [QUOTE]
I will ask my agent to arrange a visit to these 2 condo.
BTW, in my case, your opinion is that getting a relatively old Freehold/999yr condo unit (such as Oleanas Residences or Aspen Heights) is better than buying a new 99yr unit (such as Martin Modern), right?
There is no right or wrong. It goes down to the price point. I have two 99 yr condos in my portfolio as well. It goes does to location, and the psf. Martin Modern is not a bad buy for self stay, especially if u are looking at the three bedders which are going ard $2-2.1m.
But I am an investor and my focus is on psf, location and yield. From this perspective, older condos provide better value. Hope I am making sense.:)
But I am an investor and my focus is on psf, location and yield. From this perspective, older condos provide better value. Hope I am making sense.
[Thanks.
1) I just note that there is a condo call "visioncrest residence", which appears to be close to Dhoby Ghaut MRT.
However, my agent tells me that this condo is getting old but the price is not cheap...about 1900-2100per sqft and it is difficult to rent out.
Same comment for Urbana and The Regalia.
It is true? What is your opinion on these condos?
2) My agent also took me to visit Trilight 2 room last weekend, I like this project but the maintenance fees are very high, close to SGD700. Why the fees can be so high?
I am sorry that I have asked many questions.
However, I have pressure to make the decision asap, but I still have no idea which one I should buy. =.=]
new2mondrian
01-08-17, 19:06
That area has two categories of tenants - (1) the value hunters who cannot pay more than $4k, but the family size still requires a 3 bedder, and (2) the well paid Caucasians and Jap tenants who can pay between $4.5k-6k, but with strong preference for big/new projects like Rivergate. For (i), such tenants go for old condos like Euro Asia Court, Riveria Point, Regalia, Pacific Mansion. You look at squarefootresearch, the rental contracts all fall between $3200-3900, translating into $3psf. If you are paying $1.3-1.5m, yield still holds at ard 3%, before maintenance fees. If you are paying $1.9-$2m (as in the case of Regalia), yield sucks. Anyway quick thoughts below.
Visioncrest - location is not bad, though there are a few things going against it. It is next to Tank Road Hindu temple, and that is the start/end point of Thaipusam procession every year. The temple itself is huge. It is also within ERP, so you pay to go home. The biggest concern is the land plot in front of the development. The parcel is also zoned residential/commercial. Your unit will be staring into someone's apartment if anything comes up in front of it.
Urbana - not bad, about 10 years old. Rental holds up at $4.5psf on average.
Regalia - did you view the unit? If you have, and are asking this question, I rest my case. Otherwise, go and view. Pay attention to the size of the rooms and the overall efficiency of the floor plan, cos these are the things which no amount of renovation can overhaul. Development is old. Close to 25 years if I am not wrong.
Trilight - no idea. I am not a D11 person. The proximity to schools (ACS, SCGS) is the biggest selling factor in my view, which is only useful for self stay (asssuming kids are in these schools) and not a huge selling point to tenants. Depending on where u get, morning traffic can be bad. Anyway, I know nuts about D11, so plse take my words with a huge barrel of salt. D10 is nice though. If I have moolah, I'd prefer D10 over D11/D9.
Trilight - no idea.
Let me share this then, 2 bedders. High floor, some with good facing, nice.
Internal layout is no good. Super huge bay windows, and also there is no recess area for the private lift landing.
Landscape....reasonable but too small
Thanks new2mondrian. It is very detail and information.
1) For your comment on Visioncrest - Tank Road Hindu temple and the land in front of the development, I am a little bit confuse. Are you referring to The Imperial?
2) For Regalia, I have no chance to look at it as my agent has banned this condo.
I will continue my D9, D10 and D11 hunting in the coming weekend.
new2mondrian
02-08-17, 18:33
Apologies, my bad. Visioncrest is down the road from Tank Road temple, hence not next to it. But the comment on the empty plot of land in front stands. If your unit looks at Chicago Booth building, it should be fine. But if it looks to the empty land beside Chicago Booth, then something may come up right front.
The whole D9/10 has very wide pricing range even for FH. Even the relatively newer (10 years or less) FH like Shanghai One are transacting at 14xxpsf. Hence u can look around.
Totally irrelevant but still interesting though, I think South Buona Vista road area is severely undervalued. The condos there are all freehold, except for Vista Park. And most FH condos there are transacting at $9xx-$11xxpsf. It is not far from One North/Rochester Road area, where all properties are 99-year and transacting at 20-30% price premium. When the tunnel between South Buona Vista road to Normanton Park Road is done, South Buona Vista will have direct connectivity into Queensway/PIE. If I am to sink money into anything right now, I'd be looking seriously into sinking more into that area, rather than D9/10/11.
Too bad no dry powder, hence sharing here for all the fellow kakis. Anyway happy searching!
Apologies, my bad. Visioncrest is down the road from Tank Road temple, hence not next to it. But the comment on the empty plot of land in front stands. If your unit looks at Chicago Booth building, it should be fine. But if it looks to the empty land beside Chicago Booth, then something may come up right front.
Totally irrelevant but still interesting though, I think South Buona Vista road area is severely undervalued. The condos there are all freehold, except for Vista Park. And most FH condos there are transacting at $9xx-$11xxpsf.
Thanks.
I just ask my agent to arrange visits for South Buona Vista road area, but she tells me that the price should be around 12xx-15xxpsf for those condos that are close to haw par villa mrt station or Pasir Panjang mrt station.
The Orient is selling at 19xx psf.
Those that are still asking for 11xx psf are small projects and not close to mrt stations. Anyway, I will take a look in this area to see if there is any good buy.
https://www.24oneresidencess.com/
This one is 500m from Haw Par Villa MRT.
https://www.24oneresidencess.com/
This one is 500m from Haw Par Villa MRT.
This one only has 24 units and it is selling at 17xx-18xx psf
The orient is a small project too, only 52 units.
new2mondrian
03-08-17, 17:52
Yup took a quick look at propguru.
You are out of luck with South Buona Vista. Last year tonnes of sellers asking for 9xx-11xxpsf. This year the units for sale in that area were really few. From an investment standpoint, that is a great area due to low psf, lack of units and no lack of tenants from Science Park, Biopolis, Mediapolis, Fusionpolis and Mapletree business city. Looks like sellers who wanted to sell have sold. Anyway, u can focus your search back to D9/10/11.
By the way, just to share - this is my dream property. If I have the money, I'd get a unit at The Peak. It sits on top of a hill, surrounded by parks and greenery, and it is the only development up that hill. If you have time, u can drive up just to kaypoh. :)
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/project-listings/the-peak-20808/sale/1
tonymontana
03-08-17, 18:14
Yup took a quick look at propguru.
You are out of luck with South Buona Vista. Last year tonnes of sellers asking for 9xx-11xxpsf. This year the units for sale in that area were really few. From an investment standpoint, that is a great area due to low psf, lack of units and no lack of tenants from Science Park, Biopolis, Mediapolis, Fusionpolis and Mapletree business city. Looks like sellers who wanted to sell have sold. Anyway, u can focus your search back to D9/10/11.
By the way, just to share - this is my dream property. If I have the money, I'd get a unit at The Peak. It sits on top of a hill, surrounded by parks and greenery, and it is the only development up that hill. If you have time, u can drive up just to kaypoh. :)
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/project-listings/the-peak-20808/sale/1
while it is true that the location here is pretty easy to rent out (mapletree city is nearby), do note that at the end of SBV road where viva vista is will see two more developments coming (the stretch between SBV and the west coast flyover). i believe roxy pac and oxley bought up the old developments there to redevelop (lotus and harbour view condo). there are experienced property investors who dislike SBV road location, and amenities (other than the MRT) are lacking (there's nothing to eat there if you're not driving. always end up eating at the corner jizar opposite the old cold storage). If i had the budget for D9 i wouldn't consider this area, although it also boils down to what kind of bargains one can find. just personal opinion.
Thanks.
My luck is not good.
The market is moving now and my agent keep chasing me to make decision quickly.
The problem is that the units that are available for visit are all low floors - 2nd to 4th floor and there are many people visiting the condos during my visit (open house).
It is difficult for me to make the decision.
Anyway, I will take some rest if I cannot find a good target.
Keep moving on fast. Consider multiple agents and multiple developments.
Thanks.
My luck is not good.
The market is moving now and my agent keep chasing me to make decision quickly.
The problem is that the units that are available for visit are all low floors - 2nd to 4th floor and there are many people visiting the condos during my visit (open house).
It is difficult for me to make the decision.
Anyway, I will take some rest if I cannot find a good target.
Never buy any private condo estate <100 units. You will live to regret it (just like so many other older birds).....................
This one only has 24 units and it is selling at 17xx-18xx psf
The orient is a small project too, only 52 units.
Problem with Pasir Panjang road and south bourna vista road is the heavy traffic and traffic congestions during peak hours. Don't have space to expand the road too because quite many houses on both sides close to the road.
Not a good place for own stay.
And looks like there are going to be many many more new developments coming up to compete with existing resale properties there...........
while it is true that the location here is pretty easy to rent out (mapletree city is nearby), do note that at the end of SBV road where viva vista is will see two more developments coming (the stretch between SBV and the west coast flyover). i believe roxy pac and oxley bought up the old developments there to redevelop (lotus and harbour view condo). there are experienced property investors who dislike SBV road location, and amenities (other than the MRT) are lacking (there's nothing to eat there if you're not driving. always end up eating at the corner jizar opposite the old cold storage). If i had the budget for D9 i wouldn't consider this area, although it also boils down to what kind of bargains one can find. just personal opinion.
We see eye to eye finally.
It's FH here though and tenants may prefer to walk or take public transport to work in the close vicinity.
Problem with Pasir Panjang road and south bourna vista road is the heavy traffic and traffic congestions during peak hours. Don't have space to expand the road too because quite many houses on both sides close to the road.
Not a good place for own stay.
And looks like there are going to be many many more new developments coming up to compete with existing resale properties there...........
We see eye to eye finally.
It's FH here though and tenants may prefer to walk or take public transport to work in the close vicinity.
see mi eye.. that guy is a worm. dont have eye.
tonymontana
03-08-17, 21:19
Problem with Pasir Panjang road and south bourna vista road is the heavy traffic and traffic congestions during peak hours. Don't have space to expand the road too because quite many houses on both sides close to the road.
Not a good place for own stay.
And looks like there are going to be many many more new developments coming up to compete with existing resale properties there...........
i never said SBV/Pasir panjang not good
i think it's pretty ok for own stay. i certainly wouldn't mind. mondrian mentioned peak @ balmeg i visited a friend there a while back, it's nice. only thing is looking for food is gonna be a problem if i don't drive.
but my point is this area is NOT better than D9 like robertson/river valley.
i also think mount faber / telok blangah should be better than SBV. there's a very old red brick condo there faber lodge or something. haven't been inside but i'd imagine it's a nice place to stay too.
minority,
Wow!
Didn't know you the BIGGEST LIAR here is still around to spill more LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 thing I am very SURE is that nobody will see EYE TO EYE with YOU otherwise he/she will also become BIGGEST LIAR like you here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hornybastard:
Wow!
minority the BIGGEST LIAR here is still around and continue to spill more LIES?????? :middle-finger2:
minority,
Since you are still around here, why not you confirm to us whether you are claiming that Olam has rigged its book in order to avoid paying taxes on capital injection???? (since you claimed that PUB must pay taxes on Gov's capital injection!) :im-a-gonna-get-u:
The truth actually is, your statement suit you very well:
DONT COME F**K LIE LAH.
BLOODY LIAR!!!!
minority,
More bullshit from you? Ha ha ha!
If capital injection must be included as revenue/profit, then why Olam put "Capital Injection" as an item in "Cash flows from investing activities"?
You can see the FACTS here in Page 19:
http://49tmko49h46b4e0czy3rlqaye1b.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Olam_Financial-Report_FY16.pdf
So, if based on what you said, capital injection must be included as revenue/profit, then are you telling us that Olam is then trying to avoid income taxes by putting "capital injection $" as "Cash flows from investing activities"?
You claimed that:
SHOW ME IN IRAS SAY GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTION ARE NOT TAXABLE?? SHOW ME!!! PROVE ME WRONG!
...
COMPANY A NEGATIVE GET A CONTRIBUTION FROM COMPANY B AND A END THE BOOKS POSITIVE! SO SHOULD HAVE NO TAX!!!???? WTF LOGIC???
Based on what you claimed, Olam should have reflected the "capital injection $" into revenue/profit in Income Statement and pay the corporate income taxes for this amount! By putting "capital injection $" in "Cash flows from investing activities", Olam has avoided paying corporate income taxes for this amount!
So minority, are you accusing Olam of trying rig its book to avoid paying income taxes (and considering that Olam if majority-controlled by Temasek!)????????
minority,
Don't come here to bullshit to malign Olam and Temasek ok?! :tsk-tsk:
OH HOW IS INJECTION INTO A COMPANY NOT BE CONSIDERED INCOME? DIDN'T THE BOOKS END UP POSITIVE AFTER??? SHOW ME IN IRAS SAY GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTION ARE NOT TAXABLE?? SHOW ME!!! PROVE ME WRONG!
SO A F**K LIKE YOU RUN COMPANIES
COMPANY A NEGATIVE GET A CONTRIBUTION FROM COMPANY B AND A END THE BOOKS POSITIVE! SO SHOULD HAVE NO TAX!!!???? WTF LOGIC??? COZ BOOKS WAS POSITIVE BEFORE INJECTION???
AND COMPANY B WAS POSITIVE BUT AFTER THAT CONTRIBUTION TO A BECOME NEGATIVE??? SO NO TAX FOR COMPANY B TOO?????
DONT COME F**K LIE LAH.
FACT IS BOOKS WAS POSITIVE AFTER CONTRIBUTION THUS TAX ARE PAID!
SO DONT COME TWIST THE FACT THAT PUB WAS NEGATIVE BEFORE GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTION!!!
COME COME U DONT AGREE I CHALLENGE U GO MAKE A POLICE REPORT ON CORPORATE FRAUD!!!! GO!!! SHOW US LEH!!!!
BLOODY LIAR!!!!
see mi eye.. that guy is a worm. dont have eye.
Thanks.
My luck is not good.
The market is moving now and my agent keep chasing me to make decision quickly.
The problem is that the units that are available for visit are all low floors - 2nd to 4th floor and there are many people visiting the condos during my visit (open house).
It is difficult for me to make the decision.
Anyway, I will take some rest if I cannot find a good target.
If it is not what you want, no need to feel pressured to commit.
Problem with Pasir Panjang road and south bourna vista road is the heavy traffic and traffic congestions during peak hours. Don't have space to expand the road too because quite many houses on both sides close to the road.
Good night Uncle Teddybear.
I note that you are an active member in this forum and it appears that you are very familiar with the property market.
I would like to obtain your view:
1) Based on the current market, do you suggest me to continue looking for 2nd hand condo in D9,10,11 or shift my focus to other districts or go direct ahead for new launch, such as martin modern?
2) As the market seems recovering (actually quite bullish based on what I have seen), if I cannot find any target in this weekend, do you suggest me to wait for a while until the market cool down or don't stop and continue my property search?
3) Do you think the recent property market recovery is a long lasting one, say at least last for 1-2 years.
Actually, I am very surprise that the market hardened despite the U.S. keep increasing interest rate!
Thanks.
Local interest rate has continued to dip as USD fell like crazy and should continue to do so with Trump in charge.
new2mondrian
04-08-17, 00:13
If it is not what you want, no need to feel pressured to commit.
Well said! :)
DCC, agents' interests may not always be aligned with yours. Agents are looking for a quick sale, so they move onto the next deal. Waiting out with you and scour for good deals, hence dragging out the entire process and injecting a lot more uncertainty in whether they can earn a cent out of you, is not in their interests. Have to do your own legwork too. Good luck!
oldfreehold
04-08-17, 07:38
About Pacific Mansion, those high floor city view unit also quite nice to stay . Space , space , space. Spend 150k can Reno until swee swee. Can achieve 5000 to 6000 per month rental.if rent out by rooms. Need to manage though. Select slightly better tenants , not hard to find. Now not many listings , wait for en bloc fail , maybe can steal one unit.
oldfreehold
04-08-17, 09:59
District 9 also can look at Sophia area, I have viewed one unit @ Sophia residence, compact 3 bed rooms 1027Sqft sold @ 1.6M only. Super good location, relatively new, by guocoland, much better value than those new launch.
Local interest rate has continued to dip as USD fell like crazy and should continue to do so with Trump in charge.
As I am not a banker (nor property agent), I know nothing about SG interest rate mechanism. Is SG interest rate pegged to US interest rate or it is decided by MAS/SG bond yields?
As US keeps increasing interest rate next year, would MAS force to follow and increase the rates?
Well said! :)
DCC, agents' interests may not always be aligned with yours. Agents are looking for a quick sale, so they move onto the next deal. Waiting out with you and scour for good deals, hence dragging out the entire process and injecting a lot more uncertainty in whether they can earn a cent out of you, is not in their interests. Have to do your own legwork too. Good luck!
Yes, I will switch to other agent if I still cannot find any good buy.
But I can only visit the condo during weekend and I know that it is difficult to arrange a visit under the current market condition (not the fault of my agent).
I will also request my agent to arrange visits to Sophia Residence and Pacific Mansion
Singapore does not regulate interest rate, but it moderates the exchange rate against a basket of currencies.
If US increases its interest rate continually but USD continues to depreciate, it will have nett zero impact on SG interest rates even if it were our biggest export partner.
A strengthening USD plus increasing interest rates for USD (transient period during and after Trump election), that was a wee bit worrying. That period is over for some time and US has reverted back to their old patterns again.
But we all know at the end of the day, Trump is a businessman, so he can only go a certain direction.
As I am not a banker (nor property agent), I know nothing about SG interest rate mechanism. Is SG interest rate pegged to US interest rate or it is decided by MAS/SG bond yields?
As US keeps increasing interest rate next year, would MAS force to follow and increase the rates?
PropVestor
04-08-17, 13:11
But we all know at the end of the day, Trump is a businessman, so he can only go a certain direction.
His protectionist stance is to keep US dollar deflated for as long as it can so that goods manufactured in the US (or so he thinks it should) will be cheaper and easier to export. However, the Feds are trying very hard to justify upward trending in the near to mid term. This is counter intuitive as borrowing costs will be higher which prevented those companies from setting up shop here to start manufacturing.
This deadlock stance will keep spiralling until Congress decides which way to go. From Trump perspective, it is always about 'America First' and the world second. He will not care much about the interest rates as opposed to keeping the Red Necks happy with job promises. What an interesting world of ironies we live in today.
From the way I see it, locally, our dollar should not strengthen any much higher so that foreign investors can keep coming to set up shop and churn the economy. Including the property market.
2 cents,
PropVestor
tonymontana
04-08-17, 17:28
About Pacific Mansion, those high floor city view unit also quite nice to stay . Space , space , space. Spend 150k can Reno until swee swee. Can achieve 5000 to 6000 per month rental.if rent out by rooms. Need to manage though. Select slightly better tenants , not hard to find. Now not many listings , wait for en bloc fail , maybe can steal one unit.
i did a check recently, 1.6m rental 3k. hardly stellar. The same unit was in the region of 450k in 2006 to 2007. So you'll be fighting against all these old timers.
many "nighclub" hostess looking types hanging around outside in the late evenings, going to work. (alright, to be fair, i haven't visited this area around evenings for a long time already).
I doubt DCC (who is buying for own stay) would like pacific mansion.
Why you call me "Uncle"? I could be "Auntie" you know? Who knows, I could be younger than you! :scared-1:
Anyway, actually everybody has different view, so you should read all our views here and make your own decision.
However, if I am you, I would:
1) I will only focus on Feehold D9,10,11 condo (no 99-years leasehold).
Don't buy any condo estate with <100 units.
Only buy those condo estates with sufficient facilities - meaning should have reasonable size swimming pool, should have at least 1 tennis court for about 150 units (meaning if 600 units should ideally have 4 tennis courts).
You will say difficult now, yes, difficult for new launch because they mostly sucks because trying to squeeze many units into 1 estate with insufficient facilities!
2) I would wait for the property crash to come (likely 2020 or thereafter) if buying OCR. However, D9-D11 is not really expensive at this stage (vs OCR), so there are bargains to be had (selectively).
3) Property market will continue to hum along for next few years till the next crash.
4) No surprising to me. My view is that the more US increase interest rate, the more property price and stock price will go up (until everything crash)!
Good night Uncle Teddybear.
I note that you are an active member in this forum and it appears that you are very familiar with the property market.
I would like to obtain your view:
1) Based on the current market, do you suggest me to continue looking for 2nd hand condo in D9,10,11 or shift my focus to other districts or go direct ahead for new launch, such as martin modern?
2) As the market seems recovering (actually quite bullish based on what I have seen), if I cannot find any target in this weekend, do you suggest me to wait for a while until the market cool down or don't stop and continue my property search?
3) Do you think the recent property market recovery is a long lasting one, say at least last for 1-2 years.
Actually, I am very surprise that the market hardened despite the U.S. keep increasing interest rate!
Thanks.
Why you call me "Uncle"? I could be "Auntie" you know? Who knows, I could be younger than you! :scared-1:
Anyway, actually everybody has different view, so you should read all our views here and make your own decision.
However, if I am you, I would:
1) I will only focus on Feehold D9,10,11 condo (no 99-years leasehold).
Don't buy any condo estate with <100 units.
Only buy those condo estates with sufficient facilities - meaning should have reasonable size swimming pool, should have at least 1 tennis court for about 150 units (meaning if 600 units should ideally have 4 tennis courts).
You will say difficult now, yes, difficult for new launch because they mostly sucks because trying to squeeze many units into 1 estate with insufficient facilities!
2) I would wait for the property crash to come (likely 2020 or thereafter) if buying OCR. However, D9-D11 is not really expensive at this stage (vs OCR), so there are bargains to be had (selectively).
3) Property market will continue to hum along for next few years till the next crash.
4) No surprising to me. My view is that the more US increase interest rate, the more property price and stock price will go up (until everything crash)!
OCR, I don't really see a price crash, barring a major event similar to 1998 AFC.
However, the market is increasingly fragmented meaning we will be seeing more and more CCR pricing in RCR and probably also OCR in future. For example, the new units for The Albracca enbloc will probably be in today’s CCR price range.
Therefore, if a buyer is willing to pay CCR price range today, he should look at CCR units to buy. There are right-sized units to be considered.
As for TS, I will suggest that he should find out what he wants firstly. He must like the area he is buying, and the only way to know the area is to walk the ground. Evaluate a property the old-fashioned way; location, facing, space, layout etc. Don't buy a property based solely on price, price is not value.
In Bazi FS theory, there is a saying “one is not looking for the property, rather the property is looking for its owner”. The appropriate property will look for him.
oldfreehold
05-08-17, 13:56
i did a check recently, 1.6m rental 3k. hardly stellar. The same unit was in the region of 450k in 2006 to 2007. So you'll be fighting against all these old timers.
many "nighclub" hostess looking types hanging around outside in the late evenings, going to work. (alright, to be fair, i haven't visited this area around evenings for a long time already).
I doubt DCC (who is buying for own stay) would like pacific mansion.
1.6M 1528 sqft fully usable space. Only 1000+ psf. It's a D9 freehold. In 2007, the unit cost more than 1M. 450k maybe 1994 price. Rental easily 4k for whole unit, those tenant will rent the whole house and sublet, max rent easily achieve 5k to 6k. @1.6m, which d9 freehold can achieve that ? Some more, it has en bloc potential. Those old freehold in D9 and D10 are truly gold mine .
For own stay, buy those high floor city facing unit also not bad, layout is very efficient and stunning view. Of coz, if you have 3M budget， go for river gate.
I made an offer on Sunday (the unit is asking for 2.2m and I offer 2m) and was rejected by the owner yesterday night.
As 2m is the maximum that I can afford, I will look for another condo.
oldfreehold
08-08-17, 09:32
2m budget go for Sophia area, Sophia residence also not bad. 2m can get a compact 3 bedder. Location superb.
2m budget go for Sophia area, Sophia residence also not bad. 2m can get a compact 3 bedder. Location superb.
I can only afford 10XX sqft (mid floor) of Sophia Residence.
The problem of this project are:
- Sophia Road entrance is next to Peace Centre with some night clubs
- The open kitchen and big balcony
Anyway, will consider it if no better choice.
I made an offer on Sunday (the unit is asking for 2.2m and I offer 2m) and was rejected by the owner yesterday night.
As 2m is the maximum that I can afford, I will look for another condo.
Mind sharing the listing? Just to sense the market and to see if the owner is `serious'. PM me if you prefer. Thanks in advance!
I can only afford 10XX sqft (mid floor) of Sophia Residence.
The problem of this project are:
- Sophia Road entrance is next to Peace Centre with some night clubs
- The open kitchen and big balcony
Anyway, will consider it if no better choice.
Do note the contractor or was it the sub-con went bust. Project completion was delayed so be careful when considering this project. I would avoid this coz i'm not sure if the previous contractor had cut corners (since it was facing financial issue) and what pressure the new contractor was under to complete the project...
tonymontana
08-08-17, 10:45
1.6M 1528 sqft fully usable space. Only 1000+ psf. It's a D9 freehold. In 2007, the unit cost more than 1M. 450k maybe 1994 price. Rental easily 4k for whole unit, those tenant will rent the whole house and sublet, max rent easily achieve 5k to 6k. @1.6m, which d9 freehold can achieve that ? Some more, it has en bloc potential. Those old freehold in D9 and D10 are truly gold mine .
For own stay, buy those high floor city facing unit also not bad, layout is very efficient and stunning view. Of coz, if you have 3M budget， go for river gate.
in 2004, 520k, 1528 sft. I remember quite clearly during recession time, it was very cheap. even there were units asking below 500, no takers.
as for your mode of rental, yes, i agree, but that is a troublesome way of doing rental, potentially got lots of problems , but for whole units rental you can check rental contracts is 3k+ only.
26 Jun 2004
8
#03 - xx
1,528 sqft
142 sqm
S$520,000
(S$340.21 psf)
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,700 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,400 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,000 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,700 1300 to 1400 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,300 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 3,500 1500 to 1600 Jun-17
PACIFIC MANSION RIVER VALLEY CLOSE 09 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1500 to 1600 May-17
Mind sharing the listing? Just to sense the market and to see if the owner is `serious'. PM me if you prefer. Thanks in advance!
Sorry, cannot share the listing now as I am still looking for a condo with limited budget and many buyers are competing with me.
I can only say that all condos that I have visited are in D9 and D11.
in 2004, 520k, 1528 sft. I remember quite clearly during recession time, it was very cheap. even there were units asking below 500, no takers.
as for your mode of rental, yes, i agree, but that is a troublesome way of doing rental, potentially got lots of problems , but for whole units rental you can check rental contracts is 3k+ only.
26 Jun 2004
8
#03 - xx
1,528 sqft
142 sqm
S$520,000
(S$340.21 psf)
Execuse me, where can I get 2003-2004 transaction price?
Sorry, cannot share the listing now as I am still looking for a condo with limited budget and many buyers are competing with me.
I can only say that all condos that I have visited are in D9 and D11.
Haha...no worries. But dun worry lah....there are plenty of supply out there for you to pick and choose. But try to go for quality product, better to pay a bit more and get a smaller unit with better attributes than just the biggest you can find
True only for OCR 99-years leasehold private condos............
Yet ironically people are buying OCR 99-years leasehold private condos at THOUSAND YEARS historical peak price as though there is serious shortage................... :ashamed1:
Haha...no worries. But dun worry lah....there are plenty of supply out there for you to pick and choose. But try to go for quality product, better to pay a bit more and get a smaller unit with better attributes than just the biggest you can find
excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.
My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?
Thanks.
tonymontana
17-08-17, 19:27
excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.
My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?
Thanks.
1) Whatever CPF monies that were used to fund the property (down or monthly) will be accrued and the prevailing rate of CPF OA will apply to the accrued amount. I think it's 2.5% currently, but the CPF OA interest rate may change. Not to worry, every time you log in your myCPF portal, you will see the amount of "accrued interest" itemized very clearly, (including amount used for property), so you will have a blow by blow account at any time.
2) It depends what your plan is, and whether your returns can outperform the 2.5% CPF OA interest. some people say YES cos the money is "stuck" anyway so better to use it, some people say NO cos the loan interest rate is lower than the CPF interest.
anyway good luck.
excuse me, I am doing mortgage assessment now (I am going to give another offer tonight).
The banker tells me that I can use my CPF ordinary account for down payment, afterward I can choose to use part of my monthly CPF contribution to pay for part of the mortgage, which seems to be very good. However, for the fund that I "borrow" from the CPF, I need to pay interest back to CPF when I sell the condo in the future.
My questions are:
1) How much interest I need to pay when I sell the condo? Any link I can find the information? (my agent and the banker don't know the answer =.=)
2) I only have limited budget, just enough to make the down payment and paid all the expense/tax/fees. Is it a good idea to use CPF balance & monthly CPF contribution for my property?
Thanks.
So far my two PC using cash because I cannot get return more than 2.5%.
1) Whatever CPF monies that were used to fund the property (down or monthly) will be accrued and the prevailing rate of CPF OA will apply to the accrued amount. I think it's 2.5% currently, but the CPF OA interest rate may change. Not to worry, every time you log in your myCPF portal, you will see the amount of "accrued interest" itemized very clearly, (including amount used for property), so you will have a blow by blow account at any time.
2) It depends what your plan is, and whether your returns can outperform the 2.5% CPF OA interest. some people say YES cos the money is "stuck" anyway so better to use it, some people say NO cos the loan interest rate is lower than the CPF interest.
anyway good luck.
Thanks.
One more question.
If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?
Thanks.
One more question.
If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?
Yes, still accrued till the day u sell the property or close the account
https://www.gov.sg/factually/content/top-4-cpf-myths-debunked
True, so never sell.
https://www.gov.sg/factually/content/top-4-cpf-myths-debunked
True, so never sell.
Very clear! Thanks!
You guys are experts in property!
(BTW, my 2nd offer is still pending, need to view the condo again this weekend.)
Didn't know there is such "factually" website....................
Can they answer my CPF Life's questions factually (instead of ignoring them)?!
https://www.gov.sg/factually/content/top-4-cpf-myths-debunked
True, so never sell.
tonymontana
18-08-17, 15:46
Thanks.
One more question.
If I stay in the condo for a very long time until I retire, do I still need to pay the interest? i.e. is there any cap/time limit for the interest accrual period?
I get you. The accrued interest and principal withdraw should be refunded by you if you sell your property before 55.
Once past 55, if you dispose of said property, you still need to refund the accrued amount, whereby the correct min sum will be put aside (if shortage) and also your medisave account, after which the remainder will be paid you in cash.
It's here, happy reading:
http://www.mortgagesupermart.com.sg/resources/new-cpf-housing-refund-policy
(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".
Amber Woods
18-08-17, 16:44
(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".
If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.
Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.
If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.
Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.
I believe the accrued interest is the amount you would have collected (earned in interest) if you had left the money in CPF.
https://www.gov.sg/factually/content/top-4-cpf-myths-debunked
Hence, it is only right that if we were to sell our home, we should return what we have borrowed (i.e. the principal amount) plus the interest we would have earned had the money not been taken out from our CPF account (accrued interest). This amount is returned to our own CPF accounts for our future retirement needs.
I get you. The accrued interest and principal withdraw should be refunded by you if you sell your property before 55.
Once past 55, if you dispose of said property, you still need to refund the accrued amount, whereby the correct min sum will be put aside (if shortage) and also your medisave account, after which the remainder will be paid you in cash.
It's here, happy reading:
http://www.mortgagesupermart.com.sg/resources/new-cpf-housing-refund-policy
(in a way, you're refunding back what you withdrew plus interest, so essentially you're paying yourself back for your retirement. So, "pay the interest" in this case isn't the same as , for eg, paying your mortgage interest - which goes to the bank. So don't worry about this accrued interest, it's supposed to be yours anyway. Or in layman's term: "ownself pay ownself".
Your answer is very clear. Thanks.
Yes, I am a marginal buyer and I need to use my CPF money as my budget is very tight, especially under the current market (the property index is still dropping but in reality both the asking price/transacted prices in central region are increasing quickly).
For my 2nd offer, I am still waiting for the owner respond.
Most likely, it will be rejected.
If you had not drawn out your CPF for property, the amount left in your CPF would receive compounded interest for that number of years. The opportunity cost of using your CPF for property is the lost of interest earned from CPF which is 2.5% beside having to pay for the accrued interest.
Having said that, without CPF, many marginal buyers will not be able to buy property. So for people who are cash rich, leave your CPF alone.
Honestly, the cash rich will deploy their CPF from the OA. With their cash, they can easily find instruments above the 2.5% given by CPF on the OA account.
Don't believe, ask Teddy. If Teddy disagrees, I will be very surprised and would like to hear the rationale.
Amber Woods
18-08-17, 17:30
Honestly, the cash rich will deploy their CPF from the OA. With their cash, they can easily find instruments above the 2.5% given by CPF on the OA account.
Don't believe, ask Teddy. If Teddy disagrees, I will be very surprised and would like to hear the rationale.
That is correct if you are capable of generating returns of more than 2.5%. FH property gives average return of 2.5% and come with risk. Investment grade bonds return about 4%.
For some cash rich, they may prefer to leave their CPF alone to earn interest as part of their investment portfolio.
So if you are above 55 years and have cash in your OA, go ahead and draw out the cash to invest in bonds if you are motivated by the additional 1.5% (4% - 2.5%). If you prefer risk free and already vested in bonds and property, you may want to leave the cash with CPF as part of your diversified portfolio.
If you are a savvy investor, by all mean draw out your OA be it you are below or above 55 years.
Actually, cash rich is subjective.... definition of cash rich is not defined here (am not asking u to define). A person with 2 mil will have means to generate > 2.5% and still can leverage.
That is correct if you are capable of generating returns of more than 2.5%. FH property gives average return of 2.5% and come with risk. Investment grade bonds return about 4%.
For some cash rich, they may prefer to leave their CPF alone to earn interest as part of their investment portfolio.
So if you are above 55 years and have cash in your OA, go ahead and draw out the cash to invest in bonds if you are motivated by the additional 1.5% (4% - 2.5%). If you prefer risk free and already vested in bonds and property, you may want to leave the cash with CPF as part of your diversified portfolio.
If you are a savvy investor, by all mean draw out your OA be it you are below or above 55 years.
Amber Woods
18-08-17, 18:03
Actually, cash rich is subjective.... definition of cash rich is not defined here (am not asking u to define). A person with 2 mil will have means to generate > 2.5% and still can leverage.
That is correct.
Again, CPF and CPF Life are meant for the poorer people to survive their old age. For the middle class and the rich, each of us will have to decide how best to make use of our CPF. Our risk profiles and needs are different so no model answer.
PropVestor
21-08-17, 13:43
The qualifier and assumption for any investment is you get to see ALL of it while you (not as legacy) still can. Even if CPF promises me double digit XX% returns, I will not wing it because there is a mortality probability that I might not see ALL of it. The CPF analysts will have put in this equation based on our nation's health. Sorry to report that it is getting worse than ever before even we are living longer. This can dent a very big hole for our nation's wealth. Does this then puts me off CPF? Of course not. It is a wonderful safety net system which I dare say is one of the best in the world. MediShield is just as awesome.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/singapores-health-care-system-holds-lessons-for-u-s/
We are living longer yes, but we have more diseases than ever before so much so National Day Rally has to touch on this. IMHO, I have doubts I can touch all of whatever I have saved inside CPF. Like I said, this is a national social financial system therefore it also means not all of us will benefit from it equally. Just like $5,000 means differently to all of us. Those in D9/10 will see it very differently from those in one room flats.
Consistent 4-5% for property returns may be small or insignificant to some of us but at least I get to use it now for whatever I please. Just like options, futures, bonds and whatever you can invest in except CPF. Maybe some of you are of age to withdraw some of it. I am not even sure I can live till 55 on some days when my 40+ year old friends are already six feet under.
2 cents,
PropVestor
Very true. I suspect two groups of people may actually draw more from CPF in their lifetime - the least stressed and the obscenely rich, especially if they incorporated good diet and exercise to their advantage.
The majority of us at this forum, stressed out at work and no time to eat well and exercise well, most likely we will be forking out the bills for the other two groups, unless we attain the stage of passive income handling all our daily expenses and quickly incorporate those factors into our lives. Those in stressful investment schemes also deal with an additional layer of stress that limits one's lifespan.
May all be blessed.
The qualifier and assumption for any investment is you get to see ALL of it while you (not as legacy) still can. Even if CPF promises me double digit XX% returns, I will not wing it because there is a mortality probability that I might not see ALL of it. The CPF analysts will have put in this equation based on our nation's health. Sorry to report that it is getting worse than ever before even we are living longer. This can dent a very big hole for our nation's wealth. Does this then puts me off CPF? Of course not. It is a wonderful safety net system which I dare say is one of the best in the world. MediShield is just as awesome.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/singapores-health-care-system-holds-lessons-for-u-s/
We are living longer yes, but we have more diseases than ever before so much so National Day Rally has to touch on this. IMHO, I have doubts I can touch all of whatever I have saved inside CPF. Like I said, this is a national social financial system therefore it also means not all of us will benefit from it equally. Just like $5,000 means differently to all of us. Those in D9/10 will see it very differently from those in one room flats.
Consistent 4-5% for property returns may be small or insignificant to some of us but at least I get to use it now for whatever I please. Just like options, futures, bonds and whatever you can invest in except CPF. Maybe some of you are of age to withdraw some of it. I am not even sure I can live till 55 on some days when my 40+ year old friends are already six feet under.
2 cents,
PropVestor
Very true. I suspect two groups of people may actually draw more from CPF in their lifetime - the least stressed and the obscenely rich, especially if they incorporated good diet and exercise to their advantage.
The majority of us at this forum, stressed out at work and no time to eat well and exercise well, most likely we will be forking out the bills for the other two groups, unless we attain the stage of passive income handling all our daily expenses and quickly incorporate those factors into our lives. Those in stressful investment schemes also deal with an additional layer of stress that limits one's lifespan.
May all be blessed.
https://www.facebook.com/Diabetes-1071473759546520/
There is a cure problem is not many believe it is so simple, save money, save Time.
Type 2 diabetes is 100% curable.
It's a food illness. Too much fats.
A whole foods plant based no oil diet will reverse it.
But... most people can't give up meat, dairy, eggs & oils.
PropVestor
22-08-17, 01:29
Knowledge is power. Now our nation wants to set things right from infant to pre-primary. Subjects will certainly include healthy living for the tiny tots. Stubborn mind is hard to change when older. That includes me!
Wishing you all great health.
After being rejected twice, I am able to buy a condo unit in D11.
High floor, close to MRT, freehold, around 1200 sq ft, SGD 2m.
Thanks everyone for your advices.
After being rejected twice, I am able to buy a condo unit in D11.
High floor, close to MRT, freehold, around 1200 sq ft, SGD 2m.
Thanks everyone for your advices.
Do you mind sharing which development? Sound rather attractive for 1670 psf
Do you mind sharing which development? Sound rather attractive for 1670 psf
Wait until sales conclude then share safer. At least sign OTP.
It's a kelong world...
tonymontana
24-08-17, 18:03
Wait until sales conclude then share safer. At least sign OTP.
It's a kelong world...
yes, absolutely.
and personally, i don't like to share share too much. things can become complicated. esp if your new neighbours are reading this forum.
tonymontana
24-08-17, 18:04
After being rejected twice, I am able to buy a condo unit in D11.
High floor, close to MRT, freehold, around 1200 sq ft, SGD 2m.
Thanks everyone for your advices.
congrats and enjoy your new purchase
Do you mind sharing which development? Sound rather attractive for 1670 psf
No need to share. The psf seems cheap just because the condo is old and the project is small, that's all.
The timing is not good (suddenly many people want to buy property and they have more budget than me!),
my luck is bad (most condos that allow me to visit are very low floor),
and my agent is not helpful (keep chasing me to make offers). >.<
proud owner
24-08-17, 22:36
1200 sqft
2mil ?
thats 1667 psf
i do not know how new or old it is ... but how is 1667 psf cheap ?
my friend bought just 2 mths ago ... a FH in D11
walking distance to Novena station
2500 sqft at 2.33 mil
thats 932 psf
it is an old condo.
I believe your friend didn't buy a "condo", he just bought an "apartment" with limited to no facility or he bought one with lots of un-usable space like roof-top terrace?
For FH condo (with facilities) in Novena area of 1200 sqft (without useless space), $1667 psf is already the cheapest you can hope to get......
What do you expect when Hougang 99-years LH 1200 sqft (but actual usable space only like 960 sqft (much less than the 1200 sqft FH older condo)) already selling at >$1500 psf? :cheers1:
1200 sqft
2mil ?
thats 1667 psf
i do not know how new or old it is ... but how is 1667 psf cheap ?
my friend bought just 2 mths ago ... a FH in D11
walking distance to Novena station
2500 sqft at 2.33 mil
thats 932 psf
it is an old condo.
proud owner
24-08-17, 22:55
I believe your friend didn't buy a "condo", he just bought an "apartment" with limited to no facility or he bought one with lots of un-usable space like roof-top terrace?
For FH condo (with facilities) in Novena area of 1200 sqft (without useless space), $1667 psf is already the cheapest you can hope to get......
What do you expect when Hougang 99-years LH 1200 sqft (but actual usable space only like 960 sqft (much less than the 1200 sqft FH older condo)) already selling at >$1500 psf? :cheers1:
yes you are right
it has no swimming pool ...
just a club house, play ground , security guard..
it is PURE 2500 sqft of internal space ..
4 huge ensuite bedrooms ( can put 2 king bed)
huge living room
huge dining room
huge kitchen
1 store room
1 maid's room
1 toilet for maid
The problem with such big apartment unit is that there are very few willing buyers!
When people buy private strata-title properties, they are looking for facilities, so no facility is a killer!
Next, to renovate a 2500 sqft unit, the person will need to fork out about $100 psf = $250,000 for renovation!
Most Singaporeans has no such cash to spare, so DIE DIE must buy OVER-PRICED new 99-years LH property (can borrow 80% and don't need to renovate).
It is easy to foresee that such apartment unit's price will be difficult to appreciate as not many willing buyers around.
Also, I guess the location your friend bought the unit is in the "poorer" area, that is, behind Tan Tock Seng Hospital, which is not a favorable area (that is why so "cheap" in terms of $PSF), and actually the walk to Novena MRT station is not direct, can be easily >10 mins!
yes you are right
it has no swimming pool ...
just a club house, play ground , security guard..
it is PURE 2500 sqft of internal space ..
4 huge ensuite bedrooms ( can put 2 king bed)
huge living room
huge dining room
huge kitchen
1 store room
1 maid's room
1 toilet for maid
proud owner
25-08-17, 00:21
The problem with such big apartment unit is that there are very few willing buyers!
When people buy private strata-title properties, they are looking for facilities, so no facility is a killer!
Next, to renovate a 2500 sqft unit, the person will need to fork out about $100 psf = $250,000 for renovation!
Most Singaporeans has no such cash to spare, so DIE DIE must buy OVER-PRICED new 99-years LH property (can borrow 80% and don't need to renovate).
It is easy to foresee that such apartment unit's price will be difficult to appreciate as not many willing buyers around.
Also, I guess the location your friend bought the unit is in the "poorer" area, that is, behind Tan Tock Seng Hospital, which is not a favorable area (that is why so "cheap" in terms of $PSF), and actually the walk to Novena MRT station is not direct, can be easily >10 mins!
they have started renovation... about $180k
actually there are very few to no seller in that project... hardly available ... hard to find FH 2500 sqft and below 1000 psf
yes abt 10mins walk to MRT.. but very quiet environement ..
they also have PH units that are like 5000 sqft
they have started renovation... about $180k
actually there are very few to no seller in that project... hardly available ... hard to find FH 2500 sqft and below 1000 psf
yes abt 10mins walk to MRT.. but very quiet environement ..
they also have PH units that are like 5000 sqft
Some like Big Apartment others like tiny, to each his own.
When one age his or her need change.
When you stay in a nursing home you have nothing.
PropVestor
25-08-17, 12:30
When you stay in a nursing home you have nothing.
While it might be a taboo to stay in a nursing home for some age group in Singapore, there will be quite a few to choose from a few years from now. I am not against staying in one in the future. Those in Australia looks pretty good too. I just hope to be able to afford better elderly care services in future.
You might not have nothing if you set up your sunset finances prudently. For example, if your high end nursing home costs $5K a month, your investment rental collected each month may be able to cover it or most of it. Critically, who is the one watching these finances for you which to me is of higher concern. A sunset trust fund maybe? Just a thought.
2 cents,
PropVestor
proud owner
25-08-17, 21:32
My question to all here ... for your opinions please ...
1200 sqft FH condo 1667 psf
2500 sqft FH Apt 932 psf
which is expensive ? taking into account :
both being FH D11
1200 sqft 2500 sqft
condo ( full facilities) an Apt ( playground, car park , club house , security guard )
closer to MRT 10 mins walk to MRT
which is EXPENSIVE ?
oldfreehold
25-08-17, 21:48
My friend bought investment D9 freehold unit @1.61m , 1040psf. Compared to nearby 99LH selling @2000++ psf.
Which is more expensive ?
Definitely not fair to compare in this way.
One is pacific mansion, the other is Martin Modern. Someone prefer new and facilities , someone only looking at rental yield and potential.
But for own stay , would go for Yong An if have budget !
Age of unit? Purpose of purchase?
Expensive also depends on the intention.
For shiokness of space (although never use mostly) or to physically house large families 2500 sqft better. When enbloc should also be selling more space.
For newness of the environment or for rental, I presume smaller units easier to manage?
My question to all here ... for your opinions please ...
1200 sqft FH condo 1667 psf
2500 sqft FH Apt 932 psf
which is expensive ? taking into account :
both being FH D11
1200 sqft 2500 sqft
condo ( full facilities) an Apt ( playground, car park , club house , security guard )
closer to MRT 10 mins walk to MRT
which is EXPENSIVE ?
I guess the maintenance fees between Pacific Mansion will be very different too.
tonymontana
26-08-17, 00:14
My question to all here ... for your opinions please ...
1200 sqft FH condo 1667 psf
2500 sqft FH Apt 932 psf
which is expensive ? taking into account :
both being FH D11
1200 sqft 2500 sqft
condo ( full facilities) an Apt ( playground, car park , club house , security guard )
closer to MRT 10 mins walk to MRT
which is EXPENSIVE ?
Not enough info to answer.
You can only say something is EXPENSIVE if you compare the exact same thing.
For eg: if I buy a plate of noodles at AMK for $3, but the same plate of noodles (same amount and similar quality) in a mall at $7, then the second plate is EXPENSIVE.
So to answer your question, you need to compare the two units to their respective peer units in their respective developments.
For eg: If the 1200 sft condo has transacted for 1800psf average, then it is not expensive at 1667psf.
But if the second condo is normally transacted at 800psf, then your friends' 932 psf is expensive.
Btw, 2.3m puts some landed freehold terraces within it's budget.
which is more expensive is really subjective if you are buying for own stay..........
Some people prefer condo with facilities but do not need so big space will prefer the 1200 sqft.
Those who need big space will go for 2500 sqft at the expense of facilities (that is called no choice, else might as well go go for 2500 sqft with facilities if money is no concern).
However for investment purpose with intention of renting out, obviously the 1200 sqft FH condo with facilities at $1667 psf is more worth buying than the 2500 sqft without facilities.
My question to all here ... for your opinions please ...
1200 sqft FH condo 1667 psf
2500 sqft FH Apt 932 psf
which is expensive ? taking into account :
both being FH D11
1200 sqft 2500 sqft
condo ( full facilities) an Apt ( playground, car park , club house , security guard )
closer to MRT 10 mins walk to MRT
which is EXPENSIVE ?
1200 sqft
2mil ?
thats 1667 psf
i do not know how new or old it is ... but how is 1667 psf cheap ?
my friend bought just 2 mths ago ... a FH in D11
walking distance to Novena station
2500 sqft at 2.33 mil
thats 932 psf
it is an old condo.
Most likely, your information is not up-to-date.
The price increased sharply in recent months (the property index is not reflecting the truth).
I think your friend's transaction had been completed 2 mths ago (i.e. he bought it 4-5months ago).
for those used to be 1000psf 5 months ago, the current price is around 1200 psf
those used to be 1300-1400psf, the current price is around 1500-1700psf
those used to be 1600-psf, the current price is around 2000psf.
Unless your friends' condo is in very bad condition, the price had already increased by 15%-20% based on my observation.
It is very hard to find a condo (around 1200psf) with good condition under SGD2m in D9 and D11
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 13:42
For rental if same location, 2500 sqft without facilities vs 1200 sqft with facilities. Most probably the bigger one can get more.
It has much more space to play with. Now days , the first thing tenant look at is price and location. 2500 sqft means you can have 6 to 8 single rooms , near Novena Mrt, easily $900 per month . Can any 1200 sqft condo below 2M near Novena get 7200 per month ?
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 13:43
District 9 , 2M hard to 1200 sqft condo, those old apartment maybe .
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 13:47
You can still find some bargains in resale market, new launch price will go up higher next year.
You have not rented private condos to tenants (with no sub-letting) before?
If you have you will not give these kind of answers.
Most tenants don't need 2500 sqft space. They just want nice and well maintained property with full facilities!
If you are talking about allowing sub-letting for prime luxury condos, then i don't know what to say............. Your condo will "cui" in no time!
For rental if same location, 2500 sqft without facilities vs 1200 sqft with facilities. Most probably the bigger one can get more.
It has much more space to play with. Now days , the first thing tenant look at is price and location. 2500 sqft means you can have 6 to 8 single rooms , near Novena Mrt, easily $900 per month . Can any 1200 sqft condo below 2M near Novena get 7200 per month ?
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 15:41
2M budget won't get you any luxurious freehold condo in D9 and D11. You are comparing 2500 Sqft old apartment with 1200 sqft freehold condo below 2M near Novena. Of coz the old one will achieve higher rental yield, min renovation cost, the rest leave to the agent to manage.
1200 sqft in Novena with full facilities should be able to get about $4000-$6000 p.m.
The 2500 sqft apartment near Novena - how much rental can you get without sub-letting? I know these very old but large apartment probably only going for $3000-4000+ p.m.
And if with sub-letting can fully rent out or not also questionable. People who want to rent just a room usually very cost conscious, they probably choose some much cheaper place than Novena.
2M budget won't get you any luxurious freehold condo in D9 and D11. You are comparing 2500 Sqft old apartment with 1200 sqft freehold condo below 2M near Novena. Of coz the old one will achieve higher rental yield, min renovation cost, the rest leave to the agent to manage.
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 17:00
Any freehold condo near Novena under 2M can rent out @6k ? Those old apartment at least can do sub letting, 900 per month you can rent out all the rooms in 1 month time for the whole apartment , and master bed room can rent much higher,agent will do for you. Since it's already so old , just keep it clean and min Reno will do. And personally I feel those old freehold have much greater potential than those new ones.
tonymontana
28-08-17, 18:03
For rental if same location, 2500 sqft without facilities vs 1200 sqft with facilities. Most probably the bigger one can get more.
It has much more space to play with. Now days , the first thing tenant look at is price and location. 2500 sqft means you can have 6 to 8 single rooms , near Novena Mrt, easily $900 per month . Can any 1200 sqft condo below 2M near Novena get 7200 per month ?
you can't rent out 6-8 rooms to different people.
Max 6 people now?
Even then, the property will "cui" (become very dilapidated) very quickly, and then the rental rate will drop much further. These kind of rental are just not sustainable.
you can't rent out 6-8 rooms to different people.
oldfreehold
28-08-17, 18:52
Yes, after contract ends, only rent to 6. But rents sure more than those small , nice condo. Sustainable or not , not up to you to say , there are many agents specialized in this.
tonymontana
28-08-17, 19:53
Max 6 people now?
Even then, the property will "cui" (become very dilapidated) very quickly, and then the rental rate will drop much further. These kind of rental are just not sustainable.
total not more than 6 unrelated people in a unit. just thinking of renting to 6 different people makes my head spin.
Sure a lot of problems, a lot of damages nobody will want to bear responsibility (and landlord have no way to pin-point to 1 particular individual and hence end up have to foot the bill for all repairs).............
total not more than 6 unrelated people in a unit. just thinking of renting to 6 different people makes my head spin.
tonymontana
28-08-17, 20:54
Sure a lot of problems, a lot of damages nobody will want to bear responsibility (and landlord have no way to pin-point to 1 particular individual and hence end up have to foot the bill for all repairs).............
landlord who do this subdivision of property internally for multiple tenant are the old school type.. actually i know of one personally. i;m sure he make a lot. the property was quite rundown.
1) The condo unit is for my own stay. 1200sqft for 2-3 ppl is big enough.
2) 2500sqft unit is selling for about SGD3m now, which is completely out of my budget. Even at 2.33m, the sum lump is still too big for me.
3) I am sure that the quality and location of my condo is much better than the "2500sqft" unit.
*******************************************************************************
The price increased sharply in recent months (the property index is not reflecting the truth).
I think your friend's transaction had been completed 2 mths ago (i.e. he bought it 4-5months ago).
for those used to be 1000psf 5 months ago, the current price is around 1200 psf
those used to be 1300-1400psf, the current price is around 1500-1700psf
those used to be 1600-psf, the current price is around 2000psf.
Unless your friends' condo is in very bad condition, the price had already increased by 15%-20% based on my observation.
It is very hard to find a condo (around 1200psf) with good condition under SGD2m in D9 and D11
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