View Full Version : Leasehold Versus Freehold - The Comparison Continues (2016)
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have been told that since a few years ago, gov has changed their strategy and they will no longer increase the plot ratio of 99-years leasehold land while it is being occupied. That means, even if they want to revise the plot ratio for 99-years leasehold land, they will do so only after they have taken back the land at the end of the 99 years lease.
So people who hope to buy old low floor 99-years leasehold developments now for plot ratio increase and enbloc windfall would just be dreaming!
Agree, the government going to spend billion and let the 99 years leasehold rot beside the billion dollar spend just like Golden Mile.
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have been told that since a few years ago, gov has changed their strategy and they will no longer increase the plot ratio of 99-years leasehold land while it is being occupied. That means, even if they want to revise the plot ratio for 99-years leasehold land, they will do so only after they have taken back the land at the end of the 99 years lease.
So people who hope to buy old low floor 99-years leasehold developments now for plot ratio increase and enbloc windfall would just be dreaming!
Agree, the government going to spend billion and let the 99 years leasehold rot beside the billion dollar spend just like Golden Mile.
Interesting, you created a new nickname just to post this debate? What is your original nickname? Just curious why the secrecy? Isn't online forum already anonymous?
Even without increasing the plot ratio, old condos can still be enbloc, this is because they were never built up to the maximum. The recent enbloc of Vista Park is an example, where the plot ratio is 1.4 but has been built up to only 0.7, hence after enbloc the developer will be able to fully built up to 1.4.
I like people quote words from the Air.
When you read this type of quote you know the person don't know what he or she talking.
But there are many more that are already over-built, like Pacific Mansion :doh:
Even without increasing the plot ratio, old condos can still be enbloc, this is because they were never built up to the maximum. The recent enbloc of Vista Park is an example, where the plot ratio is 1.4 but has been built up to only 0.7, hence after enbloc the developer will be able to fully built up to 1.4.
https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/older-freehold-apartments-below-1000-psf-are-value-money-buys
Older freehold apartments below $1,000 psf are value-for-money buys
By Fiona Ho / EdgeProp | December 29, 2017 1:00 PM MYT
If you buy a house not to stay in, but only for its land, and the price is not too high, of course get Freehold.
Buy to actually stay, there are many more considerations to make.
https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/older-freehold-apartments-below-1000-psf-are-value-money-buys
Older freehold apartments below $1,000 psf are value-for-money buys
By Fiona Ho / EdgeProp | December 29, 2017 1:00 PM MYT
oldfreehold
04-01-18, 07:16
But there are many more that are already over-built, like Pacific Mansion :doh:
Pacific Mansion was built on the land with plot ratio 2.8. Current plot ratio is 3.84. The collective sale GFA is based on 3.84 instead of 2.8 and developer don't need to pay development charge. But can forget about pacific mansion, the owners there are just too greedy and the asking price is unrealistic. asking 938m, PPR 1908psf.
https://www.clc.gov.sg/documents/books/research-workshop/2017/balas-table.pdf
https://www.clc.gov.sg/documents/books/research-workshop/2017/balas-table.pdf
But $1 today would not be worth the same 99years later due to the “time value of money”
tonymontana
04-01-18, 19:34
https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/older-freehold-apartments-below-1000-psf-are-value-money-buys
Older freehold apartments below $1,000 psf are value-for-money buys
By Fiona Ho / EdgeProp | December 29, 2017 1:00 PM MYT
there are reasons why these properties are cheap. First and foremost, I don't think much of geylang location or balestier. pandan valley is good but pretty old. still, of the four mentioned, I would take PV anytime over the rest.
PropVestor
05-01-18, 09:08
there are reasons why these properties are cheap. First and foremost, I don't think much of geylang location or balestier. pandan valley is good but pretty old. still, of the four mentioned, I would take PV anytime over the rest.
Agreed. The main reason for its 'depressed' prices are mainly due to its location. For a city fringe location like the above, it should be alot higher but it is not.
I have owners who compared Little India Conservation Area shophouses with Geylang ones. At times, I really wanted to ask them 'Which is easier to sell'?
PropVestor
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/69969
In March this year, Minister for National Development Lawrence Wong wrote on the ministry’s blog that for the “vast majority” of the public housing flats that Singaporeans “buy,” “the leases [of these flats] will eventually run out, and the flats will be returned to HDB, who will in turn have to surrender the land to the State.”
Wong then dropped the bombshell on Singaporeans: “as the leases [of the flats] run down, especially towards the tail-end, the flat prices will come down correspondingly.”
So what does this mean?
“The Minister confirmed that the value of the flats will be zero at the end of their 99-year lease,” opposition politician Gerald Giam from the Worker’s Party explained – he had asked the then-Minister for National Development Khaw Boon Wan a similar question as well in 2013.
Giam explained: “all HDB [public housing] flats are sold to Singaporeans on a 99-year lease. We are technically not home owners, but lessees.
As such, Giam said, “I asked the Minister for National Development, during the 20 January 2014 Parliament sitting, what the value of HDB flats would be once their leases expire.”
High prices, zero value
Singaporeans will no longer “own” their homes. The homes that they pay one of the highest housing prices in the world to “buy” will have zero value.
But Khaw added that there is a “Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) [which] is part of the Government’s estate renewal strategy for older estates.
“It offers an opportunity for flat owners to buy a new replacement flat with a fresh 99 year lease,” he added.
For a while, it looked like there was a way out. Khaw said this in 2014.
But four years later, in March this year, Wong put the lid on any such hope. He retorted: “please do not assume that all old HDB flats will be automatically eligible for SERS.”
He dropped another bombshell: “only 4% of HDB flats have been identified for SERS since it was launched in 1995.”
In other words, at the current pace that SERS is being implemented, 96 percent of HDB public flats will most likely have their leases run out, these Singaporeans will no longer own their homes, and their homes will have zero value.
......................
The government does not want to release a breakdown on how housing prices are determined, but now, we have an estimate – land costs could make up as much as 60 percent of the prices of new HDB flats. In Singapore, the government owns about 90 percent of the land. There is not much available information on the land sales statistics but some scattered statistics can be found. The Singapore Land Authority (SLA) manages the land sales system. In 1997, it earned S$14 billion in land sales, which was a historical record. In 2006, revenue grew to $6.2 billion, before reaching S$12.4 billion in 2007 to hit a ten-year high. And in 2012 alone government receipts from land sales totalled the equivalent of £9.1 billion (US$11.7 billion), according to the book, 'Rethinking the Economics of Land and Housing'. Surely, this is not a “pittance.”
...................................
s social commenter and past president of Singapore’s Society of Financial Service Professionals Leong Sze Hian pointed out, in its reporting of the budget surplus to Singaporeans, the Singapore government does not follow the standard framework as set out by the International Monetary Fund (IMF)'s Government Finance Statistics.
In the estimated budget surplus that the Singapore government reported for FY2016, it reported only S$3.45 billion. However, in a separate cash surplus, there is an additional S$10.1 billion reported under the category, “Sales of Land”, Leong said. As he explained, this figure should have been included as revenue under the budget surplus, according to IMF guidelines. However, the Singapore government has omitted this figure.
Leong calculated that the cash surplus for the ten years from 2005 to 2014 would be S$189.8 billion, or billions of dollars in land sales that the government would have earned that it does not report to Singaporeans in the budget surplus.
Freehold ultra luxury sufferred biggest loses in this year:
https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/unit-marq-sold-4-9-000000841.html
So what if it is freehold? Always buy the cheapest u have a better chance to make good profit for 99yrs leasehold.
PM confirmed that nobody wants to live in 100 year old mansion owned by Teddybear.
buyer_east
26-08-18, 16:15
With VERS, it means there will be unlimited supply of land to build houses on. Will the freehold title still hold much value under the assumption that land supply is limited?
With VERS, it means there will be unlimited supply of land to build houses on. Will the freehold title still hold much value under the assumption that land supply is limited?
Do you know the difference between HDB and Private Condo?
buyer_east
26-08-18, 19:01
Do you know the difference between HDB and Private Condo?
Yes I do.
The government can decide whether to build HDB or sell to private, right?
Yes I do.
The government can decide whether to build HDB or sell to private, right?
HDB lessee got no shared on land, they only rent the airspace.
Private got a share on land call strata title. When the plot ratio increases the land value increase.
With VERS, it means there will be unlimited supply of land to build houses on. Will the freehold title still hold much value under the assumption that land supply is limited?
With vers, meaning no old people will sell the lease back to govt and lock their cpf into retirement acct and need to stay in bto studio or camp by the beach.
How many old people have sufficient min amount in cpf, and can afford to sell at low price back to govt and buy back a bto at same size.
Vers is just rubbish. Buying back low price and building new bto to sell higher price.
Govt realised sers giving back replacement bto flat,making citizen richer and govt poorer at govt expenses.
Vers is just rubbish. Buying back low price and building new bto to sell higher price.
Govt realised sers giving back replacement bto flat,making citizen richer and govt poorer at govt expenses.
You are right, over the years more benefit from HDB are remove to ensure worker needs to work otherwise we will have a nation of landlords.
Only those who got time to reprogram their worker mindset get to see the light.
Worker are program to work overtime to get higher pay so that they don't have time to learn and upgrade.
Sad to say the truth but how many can see the truth.
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