Would you buy a unit that is flipping?

[Property_Owner]

What are you people comments?:)

[condoinvestor]

why not, all depends on the overall price and if you have the spare liquidity

[vin002]

What are you people comments?:)

Why not? I still have to thank the seller for buying and holding the unit for 2.5 years since launch as previously I still cannot afford... :p

[Property_Owner]

Why not? I still have to thank the seller for buying and holding the unit for 2.5 years since launch as previously I still cannot afford... :p

brother, flip option. Not sub sale.

[bargain hunter]

are there many people successful in flipping options recently? i doubt so. I would not unless the asking price of the option is really so attractive, which I doubt so anyway.


brother, flip option. Not sub sale.

[sun]

"Many flippers in this forum" Flipping is good. Othrerwise where got counrage to buy at high price. Because they hope can flip more higher, market then start rolling. Thanks flippers.

[kgchong]

sorry, what is the diff between flipping and sub-sale?

[bargain hunter]

property owner is referring to the flipping of options (ie those 14 day expiry option to purchase). think we all thought interpreted it as sub-sale, which i think is more acceptable to buy from (especially if its at a discount to buyer's price) :)



sorry, what is the diff between flipping and sub-sale?

[Regulators]

i will avoid it unless i know the profit margin for the seller is not so high and there is further upside to the pty. Must also compare the prices of new launches in that area to see if subsale units are cheaper or more expensive than developer sales. these days developer sales are very high and not much profit can be made from subsale or resale which is why i can see investors moving to the heartlands where 500 to 600psf condos are still available....

[Condorich]

i will avoid it unless i know the profit margin for the seller is not so high and there is further upside to the pty. Must also compare the prices of new launches in that area to see if subsale units are cheaper or more expensive than developer sales. these days developer sales are very high and not much profit can be made from subsale or resale which is why i can see investors moving to the heartlands where 500 to 600psf condos are still available....

plus lower risk and supported by HDB prices. Worst case scenario, sell HDB or rent it out and camp at Condo for a while. Best case is to sell the condo before TOP with a big margin (profit). Either way, go in for the long term committment of at least 5 years or more. Plus Luck!

[Regulators]

for those owning hdb n cndo, best is stay condo n rent hdb to finance condo. Dnt need to sell either just cntinue stayng in condo for free with hdb rental.
plus lower risk and supported by HDB prices. Worst case scenario, sell HDB or rent it out and camp at Condo for a while. Best case is to sell the condo before TOP with a big margin (profit). Either way, go in for the long term committment of at least 5 years or more. Plus Luck!

[Condorich]

for those owning hdb n cndo, best is stay condo n rent hdb to finance condo. Dnt need to sell either just cntinue stayng in condo for free with hdb rental.

That is one option.
Another option is to continue to stay in HDB and rent out Condo.

Reasons for staying in HDB could be near to parents, near to primary schools intended for enrollment, fully paid up with ease of mind etc.

Rental from condo could be used to finance condo installments while earning an income to accumulate capital for capital repayment/offset the interest hike.

Either way, a poor guy staying in a 3 room flat could be owning a few condo's and you don't know that he owns private property. Have a take away thought.

[Property_Owner]

i will avoid it unless i know the profit margin for the seller is not so high and there is further upside to the pty. Must also compare the prices of new launches in that area to see if subsale units are cheaper or more expensive than developer sales. these days developer sales are very high and not much profit can be made from subsale or resale which is why i can see investors moving to the heartlands where 500 to 600psf condos are still available....

My pal, sorry but I would say tat a good investor will only move inwards if they want to get richer. How much psf gain can those heartland condo have? Livia can gain 200psf? Maybe...in 5 years time. Ardmore area you be surprise that prices can be difference of 500psf in few months time. So where is better to out in money if you want to get richer and fast:)

[Condorich]

My pal, sorry but I would say tat a good investor will only move inwards if they want to get richer. How much psf gain can those heartland condo have? Livia can gain 200psf? Maybe...in 5 years time. Ardmore area you be surprise that prices can be difference of 500psf in few months time. So where is better to out in money if you want to get richer and fast:)

With no offence to property owner. What you say is true but I would like to raise a valid point.

If one has the money, it is best to invest in a freehold good class bungalow in District 9,10,11. Better if able to get them at a low or lowest point. That one has the most potential for capital gain. However, not everyone has the money for the downpayment or for the monthly installments. The essence of it is that you see a 'golden opportunity' but you cannot! touch it, hold it and keep it. Having a appetite that is too big, it becomes a 'golden trap'.

The same principle would go for HDB's, though cheaper, they will move in tandem with the movement in property prices, smaller risk, smaller gain and smaller lost. It is that simple.

[Property_Owner]

With no offence to property owner. What you say is true but I would like to raise a valid point.

If one has the money, it is best to invest in a freehold good class bungalow in District 9,10,11. Better if able to get them at a low or lowest point. That one has the most potential for capital gain. However, not everyone has the money for the downpayment or for the monthly installments. The essence of it is that you see a 'golden opportunity' but you cannot! touch it, hold it and keep it. Having a appetite that is too big, it becomes a 'golden trap'.

The same principle would go for HDB's, though cheaper, they will move in tandem with the movement in property prices, smaller risk, smaller gain and smaller lost. It is that simple.

Don't feel offenced by you at all. We here to share and chat. Agree on your point. My advice is always, buy low then sell high. Cash out and wait for next fire sale. Buy something better, sell then buy something better again. It's a cycle, do that and you upgrade your portfolio. To me yes, buying a GCB is of course a good option for captial gain, but with all money put in one property, your risk is 100%. Why put all the eggs in one nest?

[Property_Owner]

property owner is referring to the flipping of options (ie those 14 day expiry option to purchase). think we all thought interpreted it as sub-sale, which i think is more acceptable to buy from (especially if its at a discount to buyer's price) :)

I think I notice about flippers is that they are very focus in the condo they eye. They know more then agents. They will buy e cheapest unit and flip for a profit. Depends, sometime big amount or small. But their prices is still much cheaper then market price. Tat why they dare to take the risk. 2007 is the year of flippers, they just started again but dun think too many recently. dun know why.

[jc]

I think it is the final psf that counts, be it buy from flippers or owners, n whether one believes there are further upside to the unit/ project. But once option exercise i would believe the owner would want to sell at higher px to compensate for stamp duty, etc.

I think it is the physcology that is tickling our mind. Given a choice, most would want to be the Flipper rather than the Flippee :)

[Regulators]

Hi Property Owner,

With all due respect to you and your vast experience and multimillion-dollar portfolio, I must point out a flaw in what you have just said.

You are right that properties in the prime district can escalate to 500psf above your buying price, but you may perhaps want to take out a calculator and do some simple maths for the sake of argument.

If you buy two 1500sf condos in the suburbs costing $500psf and later manage to sell each condo at $700psf, the gross profit will be $600000 for the amount invested. If you buy a 1000sf unit for $1600psf ($500psf higher) and later sell it at $2100psf, the profit is only $500000. Bear in mind that the capital outlay for the 2 condos in the suburbs is only 1.5 million compared to the 1 condo in the prime location at 1.6 million. If you claim to be a property investor, you should know which is a better investment.

Just my 2 cents worth...:)


My pal, sorry but I would say tat a good investor will only move inwards if they want to get richer. How much psf gain can those heartland condo have? Livia can gain 200psf? Maybe...in 5 years time. Ardmore area you be surprise that prices can be difference of 500psf in few months time. So where is better to out in money if you want to get richer and fast:)

[Regulators]

also bear in mind one thing. good investors are people who turn what little they have into maximum profit yield, not showing people the ability they have to throw lots of money in one property. :D

[Property_Owner]

Hi Property Owner,

With all due respect to you and your vast experience and multimillion-dollar portfolio, I must point out a flaw in what you have just said.

You are right that properties in the prime district can escalate to 500psf above your buying price, but you may perhaps want to take out a calculator and do some simple maths for the sake of argument.

If you buy two 1500sf condos in the suburbs costing $500psf and later manage to sell each condo at $700psf, the gross profit will be $600000 for the amount invested. If you buy a 1000sf unit for $1600psf ($500psf higher) and later sell it at $2100psf, the profit is only $500000. Bear in mind that the capital outlay for the 2 condos in the suburbs is only 1.5 million compared to the 1 condo in the prime location at 1.6 million. If you claim to be a property investor, you should know which is a better investment.

Just my 2 cents worth...:)
I know your intention. You math is correct. Nothing wrong. Getting 600000 in 2 years and getting 500000 in less 1 year which one is better choice? It's about ball game. location location

[Regulators]

no need 2 years lah, when prime starts moving, how can OCR properties take mre than 1 year later to move? Remember px rise in ocr brought on by ccr first and it usually happen a few mths to half a yr after ccr moves.
I know your intention. You math is correct. Nothing wrong. Getting 600000 in 2 years and getting 500000 in less 1 year which one is better choice? It's about ball game. location location

[teddybear]

Can a person rent out the HDB? I thought HDB has a criteria where even if you own a condo, you have to stay in HDB? (otherwise you need to sell the HDB?).


for those owning hdb n cndo, best is stay condo n rent hdb to finance condo. Dnt need to sell either just cntinue stayng in condo for free with hdb rental.

[new2mondrian]

Can a person rent out the HDB? I thought HDB has a criteria where even if you own a condo, you have to stay in HDB? (otherwise you need to sell the HDB?).

after occupancy of 3 years (for resale units) and 5 years (for brand new units) in a HDB, u can rent the whole unit out.

[jitkiat]

after occupancy of 3 years (for resale units) and 5 years (for brand new units) in a HDB, u can rent the whole unit out.

But u need to get written permission from HDB. I wonder whether any case rejected b4?

[Regulators]

must lock 1 room and go back off and on to show that you are still physically present there. You can only rent out whole unit if you have satisfied a minimum occupation period, but not sure how many years. The rule is a bit stupid but many people flout it by still renting out whole unit. Always remember, you can do anything, just dont get complaints from the neighbours.



Can a person rent out the HDB? I thought HDB has a criteria where even if you own a condo, you have to stay in HDB? (otherwise you need to sell the HDB?).

[new2mondrian]

But u need to get written permission from HDB. I wonder whether any case rejected b4?

not that i know of. maybe if anyone in this forum knows of any, do share. :)

but honestly speaking, nothing beats the HDB in rental yield. I have a good friend who owns 3 private properties, and yet still has a 3-room HDB flat at Farrer Road (within 1km of Nanyang Primary) which he bought more than 10 years ago for $180k. Till todate he's still renting it out to hopeful parents at $2.5k a month; and he never needs to engage the services of an agent to find a tenant. That's akin to 17% returns. Fantastic yield. None of his other private properties can deliver this sort of yield consistently over a 10-year period.

[Regulators]

if i can guy many hdb flats, i will buy 3 or 4 liao, pay everything in cash and collect rental income every month. :cheers6:



not that i know of. maybe if anyone in this forum knows of any, do share. :)

but honestly speaking, nothing beats the HDB in rental yield. I have a good friend who owns 3 private properties, and yet still has a 3-room HDB flat at Farrer Road (within 1km of Nanyang Primary) which he bought more than 10 years ago for $180k. Till todate he's still renting it out to hopeful parents at $2.5k a month; and he never needs to engage the services of an agent to find a tenant. That's akin to 17% returns. Fantastic yield. None of his other private properties can deliver this sort of yield consistently over a 10-year period.

[Condorich]

also bear in mind one thing. good investors are people who turn what little they have into maximum profit yield, not showing people the ability they have to throw lots of money in one property. :D

I like to invest in toto, 50 cents only and win big

can consider big sweep and 4D too.

[cool_rrk]

BTW flipping has one advantage. Your downside is 1% max and upside can be any amount.

But of course you must be well versed about the market and be able to assess the value proposition of the flip.

[Regulators]

toto and big sweep is almost like sweeping money into the longkang lah. ROI is zero except for the satisfaction of holding on to the ticket and dreaming for a few days before revealing the sad reality....:doh: :doh:


I like to invest in toto, 50 cents only and win big

can consider big sweep and 4D too.

[cheerful]

not that i know of. maybe if anyone in this forum knows of any, do share. :)

but honestly speaking, nothing beats the HDB in rental yield. I have a good friend who owns 3 private properties, and yet still has a 3-room HDB flat at Farrer Road (within 1km of Nanyang Primary) which he bought more than 10 years ago for $180k. Till todate he's still renting it out to hopeful parents at $2.5k a month; and he never needs to engage the services of an agent to find a tenant. That's akin to 17% returns. Fantastic yield. None of his other private properties can deliver this sort of yield consistently over a 10-year period.

Check HDB website?
sub-letting
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10206p.nsf/WPDis/Subletting%20Your%20Flat%20/%20RoomOverview?OpenDocument


It was said that ....

HDB flats sold under the Home Ownership Scheme are meant for owner-occupation by the owners and their families. However, flat owners may sublet their whole flat or spare rooms if they meet the eligibility conditions.

To sublet the whole flat, prior approval from HDB is needed. For subletting of rooms, no approval from HDB is required but flat owners must continue to live in the flat during the period of subletting and comply with other subletting conditions.

To avoid committing the offence of harbouring immigration offenders, we advise flat owners to check and ensure that their foreign subtenants are legally allowed to stay in Singapore when subletting their whole flat or rooms.

This service package provides information on subletting of whole HDB flats and rooms. It also allows flat owners to submit online applications for transactions relating to subletting of HDB flats and requests to check foreign subtenants' immigration and employment status.

[cheerful]

Seems like there is a $20/- kinda admin fees leh ..... as said at the site:

Applicants (except for applicants who are acting for flat owner in the capacity as the Attorney) who wish to sublet their whole flat under the two categories below must submit their application electronically. HDB will not process the subletting application under these two categories at the Branch Office Housing Services counters:


Category K – Owners of non-subsidised flats (flats purchased from the open market without a CPF housing grant) who have occupied their flat for at least 3 years; and
Category L – Owners of subsidised flats (flats purchased directly from HDB or from the open market with a CPF housing grant) who have occupied their flat for at least 5 years.

[bargain hunter]

http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/high-end-properties-feel-the-buzz-too/

People are flipping options at The Sail and RiverGate?