View Full Version : Is this enough......to quell the market sentiment???
Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Singapore is introducing new measures to prevent excessive price swings in the property market following signs that speculative home buying may be on the rise, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan said.
The government will push for more sites to be sold and will bar interest-only mortgages for uncompleted housing projects, Mah said. It will also stop allowing developers to absorb interest payments for apartments that are still being built, he added.
Singapore’s home sales may reach 10,000 homes in the first seven months, and the so-called take-up rate for these projects may reach a record, he added.
this is what they know how to do........property price up, put obstacles to curb. is like wherever has traffic jam....ERP installed but they didnt know that they are only pushing the traffic jam to another area. (how short sighted they are, maybe shorter people has shorter sight lah) so their job is very easy......any problem arise=put obstacle. they didnt really analyse what is the real cause and how to settle the root cause. is there really a property bubbles forming? most of the purchasers are upgrader and most of them are choosing the progressive payment and not IAS......:simmering:
this is what they know how to do........property price up, put obstacles to curb. is like wherever has traffic jam....ERP installed but they didnt know that they are only pushing the traffic jam to another area. (how short sighted they are, maybe shorter people has shorter sight lah) so their job is very easy......any problem arise=put obstacle. they didnt really analyse what is the real cause and how to settle the root cause. is there really a property bubbles forming? most of the purchasers are upgrader and most of them are choosing the progressive payment and not IAS......:simmering:
Just puzzled.. how did you know most purchaser are chosing PPS over IAS?
And incidentally, I don't think an upgrader could be put on record "a upgrader" untill TOP with the relocation take place and the former one sold.
Anyway, what do you suggest the government should do?
Was well stated from the numerous launch in the past few months that most people choose PPS than IAS.
Was just thinking will the Govt, for good stamp their authority in that they discouraged property speculation and would rather prices appreciate in an orderly manner (of course, what is orderly and what is not is very vague).
Was well stated from the numerous launch in the past few months that most people choose PPS than IAS.
Was just thinking will the Govt, for good stamp their authority in that they discouraged property speculation and would rather prices appreciate in an orderly manner (of course, what is orderly and what is not is very vague).
Huh.. the press. Well, it depend on presentation.
If a development sold 100 units of 1-2 bedders on PPS and 50 units of 3-4 bedders on IAS, are we having more IAS or PPS? It depend on absolute quantum or simply per unit measure.
I may be on the other side of the camp but frankly, I opined this as a good measure for the state.
Was well stated from the numerous launch in the past few months that most people choose PPS than IAS.
Was just thinking will the Govt, for good stamp their authority in that they discouraged property speculation and would rather prices appreciate in an orderly manner (of course, what is orderly and what is not is very vague).
In fact, speculator will not choose the IAS for simple reason of higher price under IAS and penalty for flipping....
In fact, speculator will not choose the IAS for simple reason of higher price under IAS and penalty for flipping....
This is so true. In fact if you are a speculator choosing IAS will cost you 2% more to the developer and an additional X% penalty to the bank:2cents:
This is so true. In fact if you are a speculator choosing IAS will cost you 2% more to the developer and an additional X% penalty to the bank:2cents:
Aiya, for true speculator if they have already believed/convinced that the market is going up, 2% cancellation fees is already something they have factor in already. You know the mind of speculator or not? The way speculator workout the sum, very optimistic one, just ask any agent.
Speculator will not want to take out money to pay NPS one lah.
The profile you are refering are semi-specualator only or recent ST called it specu-vestor. They calculate correctly, they perform subsales, if they calculate wrongly, they just keep the unit and become owner.
Correct or not? i'm amazed that you think true blood speculator will pay NPS,
Allthepies
14-09-09, 18:15
whatever the measures taken, i suppose the true intention is to wake everybody up from their dreams :)
Aiya, for true speculator if they have already believed/convinced that the market is going up, 2% cancellation fees is already something they have factor in already. You know the mind of speculator or not? The way speculator workout the sum, very optimistic one, just ask any agent.
Speculator will not want to take out money to pay NPS one lah.
The profile you are refering are semi-specualator only or recent ST called it specu-vestor. They calculate correctly, they perform subsales, if they calculate wrongly, they just keep the unit and become owner.
Correct or not? i'm amazed that you think true blood speculator will pay NPS,
Oops I'm sorry. I didn't know there exists stupid speculators:doh:that is, I know I can buy at 1m and sell at 1.2m in 3 months.
But hey there is IAS because I don't have to pay interest of $1K for the 1st month after foundation done. Let me pay another $20K more to the developer and buy at 1.02m and after I sell I would need to pay the bank a penalty of 20K. So instead of making 200K I would like to make less at 160K.....
Oops I'm sorry. I didn't know there exists stupid speculators:doh:that is, I know I can buy at 1m and sell at 1.2m in 3 months.
But hey there is IAS because I don't have to pay interest of $1K for the 1st month after foundation done. Let me pay another $20K more to the developer and buy at 1.02m and after I sell I would need to pay the bank a penalty of 20K. So instead of making 200K I would like to make less at 160K.....
i thought down payment of 1.02m is 204k? so only pay 4k more (v.s. 200k for NPS) so that no more payment till TOP? pls correct me if wrong, coz never took IAS
i thought down payment of 1.02m is 204k? so only pay 4k more (v.s. 200k for NPS) so that no more payment till TOP? pls correct me if wrong, coz never took IAS
yes i suppose thats correct 204K only vs 200K
proud owner
15-09-09, 01:10
Was well stated from the numerous launch in the past few months that most people choose PPS than IAS.
Was just thinking will the Govt, for good stamp their authority in that they discouraged property speculation and would rather prices appreciate in an orderly manner (of course, what is orderly and what is not is very vague).
PPs/IAS :
60/40 is also considered 'MOST choose PPS"
But 40 pct is still a high number who chose IAS
so what pct exactly is MOST in all those reports .. only developers know
proud owner
15-09-09, 01:13
In fact, speculator will not choose the IAS for simple reason of higher price under IAS and penalty for flipping....
so removing IAS .. who are MBT targetting ? flippers or real buyers ?
so removing IAS .. who are MBT targetting ? flippers or real buyers ?
I think the speculators are the targets.
But inadvertently the younger folks with lesser cash will be dragged in too. Then these guys go back to their top tier hdb flats and won't hdb flat prices go up??
Of course the rich will just continue to buy. In fact thisay be a good chance with the speculator out of the way.
Property_Owner
15-09-09, 09:15
so removing IAS .. who are MBT targetting ? flippers or real buyers ?
Those flippers that are cash tight. Real buyers no happens what will need to buy. The rich? Do you think they will go for IAS?
so removing IAS .. who are MBT targetting ? flippers or real buyers ?
Neither.
Read the following commentary from TODAY ...
by Conrad Raj
05:56 AM Sep 15, 2009
... However, the move to ban the Interest Absorption Scheme and the Interest-Only Loan appears almost akin to bolting the barn door after the horses have fled.
There are many so many deep meanings to the above paragraph, if you read carefully ...
Neither.
Read the following commentary from TODAY ...
There are many so many deep meanings to the above paragraph, if you read carefully ...
huh?!
So does it mean...
It is too late?
The fast horses left only the slow donkeys stuck behind?
Property_Owner
15-09-09, 10:21
huh?!
So does it mean...
It is too late?
The fast horses left only the slow donkeys stuck behind?
Haha, maybe. Slow donkeys:D :D :D :D
Governments are always slow to react to these developments so much so that when they do something, the market is already at its inflexion point.
Also the timing of the announcement is important. With CapLand, KepLand , SPH and FNN and others they we are not sure how much our country investment bank (Temasek) own, why would they want to temper with their own portfolio of Prop counters after making so much losses in their Financial counters.
Can only think that with the recent bout of launches (since Caspian and Alexis), a lot of them have sold enough to reduce their land bank (hence reduce land holding cost), and thus reduce their gearing level and no longer a subject to asset re-valuation write down.
proud owner
15-09-09, 11:07
Governments are always slow to react to these developments so much so that when they do something, the market is already at its inflexion point.
Also the timing of the announcement is important. With CapLand, KepLand , SPH and FNN and others they we are not sure how much our country investment bank (Temasek) own, why would they want to temper with their own portfolio of Prop counters after making so much losses in their Financial counters.
Can only think that with the recent bout of launches (since Caspian and Alexis), a lot of them have sold enough to reduce their land bank (hence reduce land holding cost), and thus reduce their gearing level and no longer a subject to asset re-valuation write down.
like i said earlier ...the developers already made enuff this round .. from apr to aug ....
deveopers are the true builders of the nation ... govt wont let them lose money one ...
so developers all ok ... made $$ already .. ok now ..pretend to punish flippers ... sure got a fewer kana punish .. then the general public happy ..that our govt is doing something to prevent bubble and all the bs ..
Regulators
15-09-09, 11:46
all this is just wayang to appease both sides, developers and general public
like i said earlier ...the developers already made enuff this round .. from apr to aug ....
deveopers are the true builders of the nation ... govt wont let them lose money one ...
so developers all ok ... made $$ already .. ok now ..pretend to punish flippers ... sure got a fewer kana punish .. then the general public happy ..that our govt is doing something to prevent bubble and all the bs ..
removing IAS is just to satisfy the general public, at least garmen doing something. Just removing IAS 2% can stop the property prices from climbing? 1mil x 2% how much nia. it may trim down some who buy in multiple units to commit lesser units.
Sg developers very creative in selling, stamp fee absorb maybe :spliff: = already abt 3%
if the next few weeks prices adjust slightly downwards, ppl will still cheong to showflats.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/559281/for-sale-upper-boon-keng-road
not sure anyone will bite, but this is a good example of hdb upgraders jumping to pte pty. It seems like public hseing providing a safety net from pte pty from falling. MBT wants our HDB asset to climb to finance our retirement.
:2cents: dont flame me, just my 2c view
Why they want HDB prices to go up over the long term (ie assuming long term POSITIVE economic growth) really puzzles me. Why are they concerned about the absolute value of the property, and not the relative value (is it so that in case bo lui liao can sell, get the proceeds, and stay old folks home)?
Personally i think this quite a useless step, but truly the value is in the "psycological" effect that "Oh, the government is acting liao! Aiyah cham liao we just bought our 1.5mio condo now cannot sell liao". But how far that effect will go really depends on how much cash Sporeans have (which so far from what i can observe, its A LOT).
But again I also think that this is just the beginning. Few weeks ago Mr MBT just said that they are CONCERNED with rising prices. But no one hack care and everyone chiong to launches, and condos are sold out over a weekend. So now government take CONCRETE action to prove that they not just say say only.
So i think we can probably expect more to come, probably punitive interest rates for those owning more than 1 property? Or requiring larger cash injections? (which is funnily contradicting in the way that they are proposing to allow bridge loans for COV on HDB).
Whatever the case, this is a welcome move. At least those flippers who are holding on to 3 or more property and paying nothing, they can start to sweat liao.
One question here, here a buyer takes up IAS with the developer. Now he sell the property. With the new regulations (or not), can the new buyer opt for such deferred payment as well, or totally cannot liao?
HDB is financed by CPF OA. If HDB resale value does not grow at a minimum rate of 2.5% to beat inflation, then if I am old and no money, who is going to feed me? At least I can do reverse mortgage or rent out rooms and get some income. This is the ultimate plan. Those who bought HDB flats in 1996, I am sure they are lucky to just break even now.... you see the problem?
yup so i rightly guessed that its for selling in the future so that you can your money back (but either slp on streets or old folks home)?
but then again, why the emphasis of "storage of value" in a flat, and ensuring that value grows with the mkt? like u said its financed by CPF which earns a decent interest, so why cannot leave the money in CPF and take it out at old age? Why must it be a "government objective" to make sure your flat price keeps going up, only to sell it in the future to ensure you have money? This is sort of like forcing you to choose property as your main investment vehicle instead of letting you choose your own?
subsale buyer has to write in to the developer to request if he/she wants to continue to have IAS (assuming the 1st buyer enjoyed the AS). This may or may not be approved by the developer, but from what i gathered, this is usually rejected.
So this new ruling does not affect those who are already holding on to one or multiple properties directly per-se.
yup so i rightly guessed that its for selling in the future so that you can your money back (but either slp on streets or old folks home)?
but then again, why the emphasis of "storage of value" in a flat, and ensuring that value grows with the mkt? like u said its financed by CPF which earns a decent interest, so why cannot leave the money in CPF and take it out at old age? Why must it be a "government objective" to make sure your flat price keeps going up, only to sell it in the future to ensure you have money? This is sort of like forcing you to choose property as your main investment vehicle instead of letting you choose your own?
because one never knows what changes there are for CPF in store for the future. My parents time, age 55 can draw out CPF no questions. Now my generation, can't even draw out without leaving shitloads inside for the govt to 'manage'. in future, what if they decide to turn everything into a mega annuity?
subsale buyer has to write in to the developer to request if he/she wants to continue to have IAS (assuming the 1st buyer enjoyed the AS). This may or may not be approved by the developer, but from what i gathered, this is usually rejected.
So this new ruling does not affect those who are already holding on to one or multiple properties directly per-se.
So seems like the new measures is only to deter FUTURE speculators?
PPs/IAS :
60/40 is also considered 'MOST choose PPS"
But 40 pct is still a high number who chose IAS
so what pct exactly is MOST in all those reports .. only developers know
IAS
URA survey: . . 20-25%
Trevista: . . . . 20%
Vista Residences: 0%
because one never knows what changes there are for CPF in store for the future. My parents time, age 55 can draw out CPF no questions. Now my generation, can't even draw out without leaving shitloads inside for the govt to 'manage'. in future, what if they decide to turn everything into a mega annuity?
But then everything is government driven right? Even with your reply above, I still cannot comprehend why it is garment's objective to make sure HDB prices rise with the tide.
But then everything is government driven right? Even with your reply above, I still cannot comprehend why it is garment's objective to make sure HDB prices rise with the tide.
IT is becos property investment the government has control using land supply to ensure your flat will grow at or better than 2.5% per year. If you have lots of $ in CPF OA and you choose to invest in stocks or more risky thing like Lehman minibonds ... then you could lose your pant and unable to retire ... thus government allows you to use CPF OA to pay your property
But then everything is government driven right? Even with your reply above, I still cannot comprehend why it is garment's objective to make sure HDB prices rise with the tide.
Every government's objective is to have a little inflation for that feel good factor. The majority of the population already own hdb/pte. As asset inflation creeps up, there they are thinking - hey i'm sitting on $300k profit from my flat - and they'll be more confident to go out and spend, makan, etc. It's a feel good thing that makes people think the govt is doing well macroeconomic wise, and such things win elections.
It is those who are starting out, low cash, no asset - who are getting married and wanna get their first HDB or first pte pty - that are affected. But really, although they make the biggest noise in ST Forum and every other online forum, they are still a minority
like i tell all my friends - your first property should always be a hdb flat. if your income exceed, then that means you can afford a resale HDB. if you cannot afford a bt merah or marine parade, then be realistic, buy a resale in punggol, senkang or sembawang - they are at best 10-15% more expensive than brand new flats which you need not wait for 3-4 years to complete. Want the govt grant but exceed income? too bad, life is tough - give the poorer folks your allotment. If you cannot afford that COV, then who asked you to buy that dream WRX the moment you get a job? this means that you are not ready to get married yet - save up first.
But young singaporeans are status conscious - they want to live it up, without paying for it up front. So most of them that cannot afford to pay the COV in cash, will then go for pte prop DPS or IAS. they sign massive loans that will wipe out their monthly spare cash, at ridiculous PSFs - but not much cash outlay!
But young singaporeans are status conscious - they want to live it up, without paying for it up front. So most of them that cannot afford to pay the COV in cash, will then go for pte prop DPS or IAS. they sign massive loans that will wipe out their monthly spare cash, at ridiculous PSFs - but not much cash outlay!
exactly! I saw so many young grads automatically assume when they get married, they must be able to afford a pte condo, or minimum a prime location resale hdb, plus a nice car. When they "discover" the price is out of their reach, the immediate reaction was " wah how can government allow pty price go up so much ? " "how can resale COV is 80k ?". And all the talk of government must do this do that, to allow them to fulfill their dreams. If these people chose to do IAS/DPS and get burned later, they owe it to themselves. Government should not be here to babysit them!
MBT wants our HDB asset to climb to finance our retirement.
Precisely! The government wants property prices to climb so that the younger generation can help to finance our retirement.
This is called filial piety 敬老尊贤.
For example, when I bought the house last time, I was helping the old couple who sold it to me to finance their retirement because they had bought it for only $50,000 in the 1950's.
I was using my hard earned income to help them retire comfortably.
I was so filial to them, even though they were not my parents. :ashamed1:
Now that the property price has doubled, it is my turn to enjoy filial piety. :p
Precisely! The government wants property prices to climb so that the younger generation can help to finance our retirement.
This is called filial piety 敬老尊贤.
I was using my hard earned income to help them retire comfortably.
Now that the property price has doubled, it is my turn to enjoy filial piety. :p
well said, MBT managed to fine tuned the jap system. haha....who knows, maybe a FT might be the one financing ur retirement. :spliff:
exactly! I saw so many young grads automatically assume when they get married, they must be able to afford a pte condo, or minimum a prime location resale hdb, plus a nice car. When they "discover" the price is out of their reach, the immediate reaction was " wah how can government allow pty price go up so much ? " "how can resale COV is 80k ?". And all the talk of government must do this do that, to allow them to fulfill their dreams. If these people chose to do IAS/DPS and get burned later, they owe it to themselves. Government should not be here to babysit them!
Yes fully agreed. Our GenY is seeking for full protection, well pampered by parents, and government. Compare to those in Mainland or even HK, can our GenY compete well or not? I doubt very much. Our GenY is not hungry, and they want good work life balance.
like i tell all my friends - your first property should always be a hdb flat. if your income exceed, then that means you can afford a resale HDB. if you cannot afford a bt merah or marine parade, then be realistic, buy a resale in punggol, senkang or sembawang - they are at best 10-15% more expensive than brand new flats which you need not wait for 3-4 years to complete. Want the govt grant but exceed income? too bad, life is tough - give the poorer folks your allotment. If you cannot afford that COV, then who asked you to buy that dream WRX the moment you get a job? this means that you are not ready to get married yet - save up first.
Agreed! Exactly what I think.
Yes fully agreed. Our GenY is seeking for full protection, well pampered by parents, and government. Compare to those in Mainland or even HK, can our GenY compete well or not? I doubt very much. Our GenY is not hungry, and they want good work life balance.
Actually the GenY are quite pitiful as the starting income of fresh graduates seems to be stuck forever around $2,000 to $3,000 per month.
Today I read the papers about 200 new teachers having problem paying back their mistaken $2,000 bonus ... one teacher said it was "very painful." I read already also feel "very painful" for them. I think MOE should just write off the $400,000.
Many years ago, my aunty a new teacher earning $800 per month can buy a Newton apartment for around $100,000. That's 10 years of income (assuming 100% of income to service the loan).
Now a new teacher earning $2,000 per month will take 100 years to buy a unit at Newton Suites (assuming 100% of income to service loan).
Then you want them to move to bt merah or marine parade, then to punggol, senkang or sembawang ...
like i tell all my friends - your first property should always be a hdb flat. if your income exceed, then that means you can afford a resale HDB. if you cannot afford a bt merah or marine parade, then be realistic, buy a resale in punggol, senkang or sembawang
not to forget that genY does not have the same job-security stability as previous generations. Future generations will find it more common to have to deal with bouts of unemployment than previous generations.
Actually the GenY are quite pitiful as the starting income of fresh graduates seems to be stuck forever around $2,000 to $3,000 per month.
Today I read the papers about 200 new teachers having problem paying back their mistaken $2,000 bonus ... one teacher said it was "very painful." I read already also feel "very painful" for them. I think MOE should just write off the $400,000.
Many years ago, my aunty a new teacher earning $800 per month can buy a Newton apartment for around $100,000. That's 10 years of income (assuming 100% of income to service the loan).
Now a new teacher earning $2,000 per month will take 100 years to buy a unit at Newton Suites (assuming 100% of income to service loan).
Then you want them to move to bt merah or marine parade, then to punggol, senkang or sembawang ...
I share your view on the GenY.
Eventually, we all will be like Mainland rule of 4+2 (parents from both sides of the young couple to foot the first instalment and monthly instalment by the couple) soon, and it is a matter of time is 4+2+1, with drop in birth rate, high property price, we need to take a 50 years mortgage and have our child to help to pay.....
:banghead:
But then everything is government driven right? Even with your reply above, I still cannot comprehend why it is garment's objective to make sure HDB prices rise with the tide.
to tie ur funds down, otherwise the ponzi.. oops i means cpf scheme will collapse..
hence the eagerness to raise population i.e. get new entrants into the scheme
:scared-2:
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