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mr funny
30-12-09, 01:17
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,365701,00.html?

Published December 29, 2009

Terrace prices are king among landed homes

For 4 years running their prices have been most resilient, Credo study finds

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


(SINGAPORE) Landed home prices have largely continued to rise this year in the five most popular districts despite price fatigue setting in for condominiums and apartments.

A caveats analysis by Credo Real Estate, covering a four-year period from when the residential property market first stirred to life in 2006, shows that prices of terrace houses have been the most resilient over the past four years, rising by over 50 per cent in some areas.

More than semi-detached houses and bungalows, the average per square foot price of terrace houses has risen consistently between 2006 and 2009 in the five most popular districts.

The most sought-after landed housing location is District 19, followed by Districts 15, 28, 20 and 10.

Credo's study does not include the Good Class Bungalow Areas (GCBAs) and Sentosa Cove (which are the more exclusive landed housing locations in Singapore), and strata landed homes. The latter are a hybrid housing form with shared condo-type facilities like swimming pool and tennis courts, and are usually built more intensively than conventional landed housing.

While terrace home prices have fared relatively better than semi-Ds and bungalows, landed home prices on the whole have also appreciated steadily between 2006 and 2009 in the five districts. 'For most districts and sub-classifications of landed, we are at the all-time peak in terms of prices,' says Credo's managing director Karamjit Singh.

In most instances, price gains were achieved last year despite the general property downturn.

Agents attribute this resilience to the relatively limited supply and stock of landed homes.

'There's a very strong desire on the part of many Singaporean households to upgrade to landed property, which is regarded as an emotionally satisfying form of housing to own because you actually own something very tangible on the ground rather than in the air,' says Credo's Mr Singh.

The government's promotion of larger families - with three or more children - has also set more parents thinking about the need for bigger homes with at least four bedrooms.

'Many times you'll find terrace houses offer better value than large apartments and condos. A 2,000 sq ft 4-plus-1, brand-new freehold condo in Katong might cost $2.4 million. But you can probably buy an intermediate terrace for about $2 million and have a bigger gross floor area of 2,500 sq ft, with saleable area inclusive of car porches possibly exceeding 3,000 sq ft. And you could have as many as five bedrooms,' Mr Singh says.

He also points out that landed housing is an asset class that is predominantly bought and sold by Singaporeans rather than foreigners - which accounts for why landed 'has always been like a steady ship, less volatile than high-end condos in particular'.

Knight Frank chairman Tan Tiong Cheng reckons, however, that new citizens could also be potential buyers. 'A lot of new citizens also like landed homes, once they realise security is not an issue in Singapore,' he said.

Terrace houses, which form the bulk of landed housing stock here, made up the lion's share or nearly 60 per cent of the total 1,552 caveats lodged for landed homes in 2009 in the five hot spots.

In the most popular location of District 19 (which includes Serangoon Gardens and Yio Chu Kang), the average price of terrace houses has risen from $409 psf of land area in 2006 to $586 psf this year - an increase of 43.3 per cent.

In the second most sought after locale, District 15 (covering Katong, Opera Estate, Mountbatten and Joo Chiat), the average terrace home price has appreciated 51.8 per cent, from $475 psf in 2006 to $721 psf this year. Average terrace house prices in 2009 are at an all-time high in four of the five districts, and close to the record level in the fifth district.

Bucking the overall uptrend in bungalow and semi-detached home prices last year, the average detached home price in District 15 fell 23.1 per cent to $635 psf in 2008 from $826 psf in 2007. 'District 15 detached houses benefited from that wave of buying we saw for luxury condos in 2007. But they also shared a similar fate when prices later fell in 2008,' says Mr Singh.

District 28 includes Seletar Hills Estate, Luxus Hill and the Mimosa and Saraca areas; District 20 covers Jalan Pemimpin, Sembawang Hills Estate, Thomson Ridge Estate and Soo Chow Gardens; while District 10 includes the Bukit Timah and Holland Road areas.

The five hot spots account for 54.2 per cent of total caveats lodged this year for landed homes in Singapore, excluding GCBAs, Sentosa Cove and strata landed properties.

Overall, the 1,552 caveats lodged for landed homes in the five districts this year is about 65 per cent higher than last year's figure, but still below the 2,516 caveats lodged in 2007.

More than 90 per cent of landed homes transacted this year in Singapore (excluding GCBAs, Sentosa Cove and strata landed homes) were in the secondary market - which is not surprising given the dearth of new project launches in the primary market.

For the year ahead, Knight Frank's Mr Tan reckons the outlook for landed home prices remains strong, 'just like the recovery in 2009 - and more so than condos'.

He reasoned: 'Not only is supply limited but also static. It's more difficult to create landed housing stock; when government sells land, it wants to maximise value especially if it's near MRT stations. Hence the tendency to award higher plot ratios and these can't be maximised by doing landed housing.'

Mr Singh, too, is upbeat about prospects for landed homes as long as the economy continues to grow. 'Landed is dependent on Singaporeans at large feeling richer and confident about their earnings prospects. It has also got to do with the other forms of wealth creation taking place, like people becoming IPO-rich, or en bloc-rich,' he says.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-12-29/BT_IMAGES_KRLAND29A.jpg

jlrx
09-01-10, 02:22
Landed home owners are shining examples of people who have strong faith in the Propertism religion - the belief that property prices will always go up in the long term, simply because cash will lose its value. :cheers1:

This is unlike some idiotic condo owners, whose fire sales made me lose my appetite during early 2009. :simmering:

Look at the three graphs above posted by mr funny. Landed prices continued to climb steadily throughout the Lehman crisis. :cheers6:

I wish to congratulate all fellow landed home owners for their strong faith in Propertism. When the market was bad, they just hanged on their properties and did not panic. Look at the sales chart below. Sales almost came to a halt in February 2009 :p while prices continued to rise! :cheers1:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/LandedSales.jpg

This is a shining example of the behaviour of the true believers of Propertism. Landed home owners will go to Property Heaven. :cheers6:

On the other hand, some idiotic condo owners fire-sold their properties in early 2009, causing my condos' transacted prices to plunge as much as 32% and made me lose my appetite. :simmering:

My chicken rice, which was supposed to look nice and delicious like this:

http://www.about-recipes.com/imgrec/300918-Chicken-Rice.jpg

ended up looking like this:

http://www.shelikescute.com/shop/images/so_poo.jpg

It would have looked worse if not for my constant prayers and strong faith in Propertism.

Today, prices have popped back up again so they must be kicking themselves now. Serve them right! :tongue3:

For no rhyme or reason, these idiots caused me to lose my appetite for a few months after the Lehman crisis, and what more, brought misery to themselves.

They have gone to Property Hell, a place they rightly belong. :simmering:

echotrain
09-01-10, 06:38
http://www.shelikescute.com/shop/images/so_poo.jpg



Ehhh what is this?

Anyway, the fire-sales are mainly in the hotly speculative condo developments. Few speculate so wildly with landed properties.

jlrx
09-01-10, 22:40
http://www.shelikescute.com/shop/images/so_poo.jpg
Ehhh what is this?

This is the least disgusting image from Google when I searched for "Poo". :p

Regulators
10-01-10, 16:04
What is all this nonsense about propertism religion? Have you ever considered that people sell properties because they need to sell it for a million and one reasons? Not everybody buy or sell to make money and neither would people who need to buy or sell want to lose money, so would they care about propertism?



Landed home owners are shining examples of people who have strong faith in the Propertism religion - the belief that property prices will always go up in the long term, simply because cash will lose its value. :cheers1:

This is unlike some idiotic condo owners, whose fire sales made me lose my appetite during early 2009. :simmering:

Look at the three graphs above posted by mr funny. Landed prices continued to climb steadily throughout the Lehman crisis. :cheers6:

I wish to congratulate all fellow landed home owners for their strong faith in Propertism. When the market was bad, they just hanged on their properties and did not panic. Look at the sales chart below. Sales almost came to a halt in February 2009 :p while prices continued to rise! :cheers1:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/LandedSales.jpg

This is a shining example of the behaviour of the true believers of Propertism. Landed home owners will go to Property Heaven. :cheers6:

On the other hand, some idiotic condo owners fire-sold their properties in early 2009, causing my condos' transacted prices to plunge as much as 32% and made me lose my appetite. :simmering:

My chicken rice, which was supposed to look nice and delicious like this:

http://www.about-recipes.com/imgrec/300918-Chicken-Rice.jpg

ended up looking like this:

http://www.shelikescute.com/shop/images/so_poo.jpg

It would have looked worse if not for my constant prayers and strong faith in Propertism.

Today, prices have popped back up again so they must be kicking themselves now. Serve them right! :tongue3:

For no rhyme or reason, these idiots caused me to lose my appetite for a few months after the Lehman crisis, and what more, brought misery to themselves.

They have gone to Property Hell, a place they rightly belong. :simmering:

jlrx
10-01-10, 22:00
What is all this nonsense about propertism religion? Have you ever considered that people sell properties because they need to sell it for a million and one reasons? Not everybody buy or sell to make money and neither would people who need to buy or sell want to lose money, so would they care about propertism?

It's neither necessary to convince every single person, nor a million and one persons, that property prices will always go up in the long term.

All that is needed is a critical mass of believers in our Propertism religion.

We still need a few people to sell their houses to set higher and higher record prices (for Reporter to report :p ), so that the rest, who are holding on to their properties, can feel good and eat our delicious chicken rice with a good appetite.

Landed housing and Jakarta, by nature, have a very high percentage of Propertism believers who hold on tightly to their properties. The graphs above which show landed housing prices edging up despite the full force of the Lehman Hurricane, while transactions grinded almost to a halt, demonstrated the extreme calm and prowess of landed home owners, which made me feel very proud. :cheers6:

Now I am trying to tell all condo owners that, since property prices will always go up in the long term, why should they sell at a low price and make their neighbours lose their appetite? and then later lose their own appetite when property prices bounce back up, as eventually they will, sooner or later.

Why do they want to hurt their neighbours, and also hurt themselves?

Imagine a world where every condo owner holds on tightly to his properties and not sell (except maybe one or two sellers to set record prices for Reporter to report), property prices will shoot up through the roof and all property owners (e.g. Property_Owner :p who has 40+ properties) will feel very good and have a good appetite everyday. :cheers1:

Speaking of Property_Owner, haven't seen him in this forum ever since he said he was going on holiday. Wonder who is helping him to manage his 40+ properties? Did he engage Reporter, who offered his services? :confused:

proud owner
11-01-10, 01:04
It's neither necessary to convince every single person, nor a million and one persons, that property prices will always go up in the long term.

All that is needed is a critical mass of believers in our Propertism religion.

We still need a few people to sell their houses to set higher and higher record prices (for Reporter to report :p ), so that the rest, who are holding on to their properties, can feel good and eat our delicious chicken rice with a good appetite.

Landed housing and Jakarta, by nature, have a very high percentage of Propertism believers who hold on tightly to their properties. The graphs above which show landed housing prices edging up despite the full force of the Lehman Hurricane, while transactions grinded almost to a halt, demonstrated the extreme calm and prowess of landed home owners, which made me feel very proud. :cheers6:

Now I am trying to tell all condo owners that, since property prices will always go up in the long term, why should they sell at a low price and make their neighbours lose their appetite? and then later lose their own appetite when property prices bounce back up, as eventually they will, sooner or later.

Why do they want to hurt their neighbours, and also hurt themselves?

Imagine a world where every condo owner holds on tightly to his properties and not sell (except maybe one or two sellers to set record prices for Reporter to report), property prices will shoot up through the roof and all property owners (e.g. Property_Owner :p who has 40+ properties) will feel very good and have a good appetite everyday. :cheers1:

Speaking of Property_Owner, haven't seen him in this forum ever since he said he was going on holiday. Wonder who is helping him to manage his 40+ properties? Did he engage Reporter, who offered his services? :confused:

just a question :

If everyone believes in propertism .. and hold their portfolio till they go heaven ..

and if no one sells ? how do we 'realise' new high ?

if no one sells, price will stagnate at the last transacted price ..
then how to even 'mark to market' when there is no market ?

jlrx
11-01-10, 01:49
just a question :

If everyone believes in propertism .. and hold their portfolio till they go heaven ..

and if no one sells ? how do we 'realise' new high ?

if no one sells, price will stagnate at the last transacted price ..
then how to even 'mark to market' when there is no market ?

For the answer to your question, please refer to my previous posts, which are reproduced below (see the highlighted words):


It's neither necessary to convince every single person, nor a million and one persons, that property prices will always go up in the long term.

All that is needed is a critical mass of believers in our Propertism religion.

We still need a few people to sell their houses to set higher and higher record prices (for Reporter to report :p ), so that the rest, who are holding on to their properties, can feel good and eat our delicious chicken rice with a good appetite.




Sell flat for $300,000 profit? No way!
Out of 60 residents polled, 58 say they are staying put in popular HDB estate
Desmond Ng
The New Paper
Thursday, 7 January 2010

Propertism has spread to the heartland! :cheers1:

Now everyone is beginning to believe in the Propertism religion and realises that properties should only be bought, and not sold.

58 out of 60 is 97% !!!

It would be good if the number is 59 out of 60.

The target of Propertism is not 100%. We need one person to sell, so as to set a benchmark.

The one who sells will have no competitive sellers, but lots of buyers.

All we need is to close one HDB flat at $ 1.88 million, and immediately evey HDB dweller in Singapore will feel very rich.

Everyone else just hangs on to his flat forever, and feel rich.

That is the Nirvana of Propertism Heaven. :cheers1:

Regulators
11-01-10, 13:39
I think jlrx is saying that with no one selling and supply shrinks, prices will be forced upwards due to lack of supply. This theory is only applicable if market prices are not erratic and 99yr properties have the most erratic prices. 99yr ptys fluctuate the most in prices and the window to make money is in the first 1 to 9 years and after that, prices depreciate with age. If 99yr pty owners subscribe to propertism, they would have missed the boat many times over in the crucial years. I dont see 99yr condo prices appreciating with time unless the location is superb and there are only 2 or 3 developments in that prime location.


just a question :

If everyone believes in propertism .. and hold their portfolio till they go heaven ..

and if no one sells ? how do we 'realise' new high ?

if no one sells, price will stagnate at the last transacted price ..
then how to even 'mark to market' when there is no market ?

ay123
11-01-10, 14:11
For the answer to your question, please refer to my previous posts, which are reproduced below (see the highlighted words):

Just a question.....Does your propertism mean that buying property is irregardless of what price? what location? freehold or leasehold? Since property will appreciate in value in long term, there is no such thing as "miss the boat" right? So buying property must be........ you see it you like it you buy!!:D don wait!!

jlrx
11-01-10, 16:59
99yr ptys fluctuate the most in prices and the window to make money is in the first 1 to 9 years and after that, prices depreciate with age. If 99yr pty owners subscribe to propertism, they would have missed the boat many times over in the crucial years. I dont see 99yr condo prices appreciating with time unless the location is superb and there are only 2 or 3 developments in that prime location.

I also used to look down on 99-years properties.

However, my view has changed completely over the past few years when Farrer Court (HUDC Yucks!!!), The Sail (land so small how to enbloc?) and Sentosa Cove (isn't that a children's playground?) overtook my portfolio of freehold properties, percentage wise.

99-years properties also appreciate with time. HDB flats are good examples.

It couldn't be such that HDB flats appreciate with time, while 99-years condos don't. If such a situation were to happen, then over the past 40 years, we would have seen 99-years condos becoming cheaper than HDB flats island wide! :scared-4:


The Straits Times

Scenic drive

HDB flats with great views are in hot demand.

Tay Suan Chiang

Sat, Jun 23, 2007

http://www.asiaone.com/migrated/wdu/gardening/greenhavens/gallery/pics/20070623_001c.jpg

Madam Yeo Wee Geck on her 20th-storey Marine Parade unit. She can catch the sunrise as well as enjoy the sea view from her flat.

Mr Chris Koh, director of Dennis Wee Properties, says prices for private properties have soared over the past year due to the influx of investment from foreigners and buyers' confidence in the Singapore economy.

And that has also boosted the demand for HDB flats in good locations and on higher floors.

He cites the example of a five-room HDB flat in Marine Parade that has unblocked views of the sea. He says that, three years ago, it would have fetched about $350,000.

"A year ago, it could sell for $400,000. Today, buyers are willing to pay $500,000," he says.

But even though their flat may now fetch a higher price, some home owners are unwilling to sell.

Housewife Yeo Wee Geck, 85, is one. The grandmother of six lives with her only daughter and their maid in a five-room HDB flat in Marine Parade. She bought the 20th-storey unit in the early 1970s for $30,000.

She gets to watch the sun rise from her flat, as well as enjoy views of East Coast Park and the sea. "It is so breezy here. I won't move out," she says.

http://www.asiaone.com/migrated/wdu/gardening/greenhavens/gallery/pics/20070623_001b.jpg

Block 29 Marine Crescent. RETIREE P.R. Sharma, 81, has a view from his 20th-storey flat that many Singaporeans would envy.

His five-room HDB point-block flat overlooks East Coast Park and the city skyline in the distance. He can even see the sea from a side window and from the bedroom and living room.

He gets to enjoy the sunrise from his flat, watch planes land and take off from nearby Changi airport and count the number of tankers dotting the sea off East Coast Park.

He paid $35,500 for the flat in 1974, and says he was offered about $900,000 for it nearly 20 years ago. Property agents say the current selling rate for such a flat is $500,000.

He adds that even if he was offered $1million today, he would not sell it. He gets about three flyers a day from agents looking for sellers but he throws them in the bin without even looking at them.

jlrx
11-01-10, 17:15
Just a question.....Does your propertism mean that buying property is irregardless of what price? what location? freehold or leasehold? Since property will appreciate in value in long term, there is no such thing as "miss the boat" right? So buying property must be........ you see it you like it you buy!!:D don wait!!

WOW ... :scared-4: You are a very promising Propertist!!! :cheers1:

You have summed up the tenets of the Propertism religion so well! :p

Yes, Propertism means:

1. Buying property is regardless of price (as long it's the market price prevailing at that point in time).

2. Regardless of location (the premiums have already been priced in).

3. Freehold or leasehold (except for leaseholds where the lease is held by the developer, and not the Government, because then you are just a 99-year tenant of the developer, you are not buying a property!).

4. Property will appreciate in value in the long term.

5. There is no such thing as "miss the boat".

6. Buying property must be........ you see it you like it you buy!!

7. Don't wait!!

Regulators
13-01-10, 00:07
Are you stuck with your property/properties now to preach propertism?


WOW ... :scared-4: You are a very promising Propertist!!! :cheers1:

You have summed up the tenets of the Propertism religion so well! :p

Yes, Propertism means:

1. Buying property is regardless of price (as long it's the market price prevailing at that point in time).

2. Regardless of location (the premiums have already been priced in).

3. Freehold or leasehold (except for leaseholds where the lease is held by the developer, and not the Government, because then you are just a 99-year tenant of the developer, you are not buying a property!).

4. Property will appreciate in value in the long term.

5. There is no such thing as "miss the boat".

6. Buying property must be........ you see it you like it you buy!!

7. Don't wait!!

Regulators
13-01-10, 00:09
people who become propertiists are those who have no choice but to wait for a chance to offload their property at a good price which seems like never coz they keep telling themselves property is for buying and not for selling to console themselves...:doh:

jlrx
13-01-10, 03:04
Are you stuck with your property/properties now to preach propertism?

people who become propertiists are those who have no choice but to wait for a chance to offload their property at a good price which seems like never coz they keep telling themselves property is for buying and not for selling to console themselves...:doh:

Actually, properties are good things to be "stuck with". Frankly I won't know what to do with all the cash if I were to, so called, "offload my properties".

Read the Sunday Times interview below of a devout Propertist, Mr. Jean-Marc Jacot.

I was very stunned when I read this because all the things he said I would also have said if the reporters had interviewed me instead! :scared-4:

At first, I thought that the he was me, and I was him! :scared-4: Until I saw his portfolio of properties, which was worth several times mine, that I was convinced that I was not the one being interviewed. Whew! :scared-3:

Keeping a watch on property deals

Swiss watch veteran keeps very little in cash, and prefers to invest in real estate.

By Lorna Tan, Senior Correspondent, The Sunday Times, Dec 27, 2009

http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/business/12Dec09/images/20091228.123744_jeanmarcjacot.jpg
Mr Jean-Marc Jacot, global chief executive of watch maker Parmigiani

My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]

The value of property goes up slowly but it always trends upwards due to limited space and increasing populations. In the short term, it may not be the best investment.

My best investment to date is my house in St Tropez. I bought it 20 years ago at US$800,000 and it is now worth between US$5 million and US$6 million. The house is divided into two units, on the land area of 6,000 sq m. The kids use one unit and my wife and I, the other. We use the house several times a year.

I have two homes in France. Besides the family home in St Tropez, I have a three-storey house in a countryside village in the centre of France. The built-up area of the latter is 200 sq m and the land area is 2,000 sq m. I bought it 16 years ago for US$500,000 and it is now worth US$2 million. I use it twice a year.

In Geneva, Switzerland, I have eight properties that I rent out, besides the condominium that I live in. The largest rental property is a 400 sq m penthouse with a terrace. I bought it in 1997 for US$1.9 million, and it is valued at about US$3 million now. I'm renting it out for US$7,000 a month. The rest of the rental properties were bought in 1988, 2001 and 2002. They average about 150 sq m and they cost about US$7 million in all. My total rental income comes close to US$30,000.

The_Way_I_See_It
13-01-10, 11:17
Actually, properties are good things to be "stuck with". Frankly I won't know what to do with all the cash if I were to, so called, "offload my properties".

Read the Sunday Times interview below of a devout Propertist, Mr. Jean-Marc Jacot.

I was very stunned when I read this because all the things he said I would also have said if the reporters had interviewed me instead! :scared-4:

At first, I thought that the he was me, and I was him! :scared-4: Until I saw his portfolio of properties, which was worth several times mine, that I was convinced that I was not the one being interviewed. Whew! :scared-3:

Keeping a watch on property deals

Swiss watch veteran keeps very little in cash, and prefers to invest in real estate.

By Lorna Tan, Senior Correspondent, The Sunday Times, Dec 27, 2009

http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/business/12Dec09/images/20091228.123744_jeanmarcjacot.jpg
Mr Jean-Marc Jacot, global chief executive of watch maker Parmigiani

My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]

The value of property goes up slowly but it always trends upwards due to limited space and increasing populations. In the short term, it may not be the best investment.

My best investment to date is my house in St Tropez. I bought it 20 years ago at US$800,000 and it is now worth between US$5 million and US$6 million. The house is divided into two units, on the land area of 6,000 sq m. The kids use one unit and my wife and I, the other. We use the house several times a year.

I have two homes in France. Besides the family home in St Tropez, I have a three-storey house in a countryside village in the centre of France. The built-up area of the latter is 200 sq m and the land area is 2,000 sq m. I bought it 16 years ago for US$500,000 and it is now worth US$2 million. I use it twice a year.

In Geneva, Switzerland, I have eight properties that I rent out, besides the condominium that I live in. The largest rental property is a 400 sq m penthouse with a terrace. I bought it in 1997 for US$1.9 million, and it is valued at about US$3 million now. I'm renting it out for US$7,000 a month. The rest of the rental properties were bought in 1988, 2001 and 2002. They average about 150 sq m and they cost about US$7 million in all. My total rental income comes close to US$30,000.

Jirx- you are a classic example of one dimension thinker , terribly sick oredi - every thing has a value which may change with time dimension.
What may be valuable today may be valuless tommorrow !!!

Imagine a war or nuclear holocaust or something terrible like disese occurred in any of his properties, immediately the value may go overnight to zero.

I only believe in realism with which propertism is a minute subset of it :D:D

proud owner
13-01-10, 11:29
Actually, properties are good things to be "stuck with". Frankly I won't know what to do with all the cash if I were to, so called, "offload my properties".

Read the Sunday Times interview below of a devout Propertist, Mr. Jean-Marc Jacot.

I was very stunned when I read this because all the things he said I would also have said if the reporters had interviewed me instead! :scared-4:

At first, I thought that the he was me, and I was him! :scared-4: Until I saw his portfolio of properties, which was worth several times mine, that I was convinced that I was not the one being interviewed. Whew! :scared-3:

Keeping a watch on property deals

Swiss watch veteran keeps very little in cash, and prefers to invest in real estate.

By Lorna Tan, Senior Correspondent, The Sunday Times, Dec 27, 2009

http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/business/12Dec09/images/20091228.123744_jeanmarcjacot.jpg
Mr Jean-Marc Jacot, global chief executive of watch maker Parmigiani

My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]

The value of property goes up slowly but it always trends upwards due to limited space and increasing populations. In the short term, it may not be the best investment.

My best investment to date is my house in St Tropez. I bought it 20 years ago at US$800,000 and it is now worth between US$5 million and US$6 million. The house is divided into two units, on the land area of 6,000 sq m. The kids use one unit and my wife and I, the other. We use the house several times a year.

I have two homes in France. Besides the family home in St Tropez, I have a three-storey house in a countryside village in the centre of France. The built-up area of the latter is 200 sq m and the land area is 2,000 sq m. I bought it 16 years ago for US$500,000 and it is now worth US$2 million. I use it twice a year.

In Geneva, Switzerland, I have eight properties that I rent out, besides the condominium that I live in. The largest rental property is a 400 sq m penthouse with a terrace. I bought it in 1997 for US$1.9 million, and it is valued at about US$3 million now. I'm renting it out for US$7,000 a month. The rest of the rental properties were bought in 1988, 2001 and 2002. They average about 150 sq m and they cost about US$7 million in all. My total rental income comes close to US$30,000.

to some degree i agree with your propertism ..
BUT it is not a religion that everyone can accept faithfully

how many people can afford to only buy and not sell ?

all your examples are the RICH people ..

give me some example of those poor who practise propertism

Regulators
13-01-10, 13:14
Jean-Marc used the word INVESTMENT and all investments will eventually be realised into profit if not what is the point of investing? Property investors don not speak of sitting on a property forever they speak of exiting at a timne they deem is right. 1st owners of The Sail who sold to those goons at 2-3k psf have already laughed their way to the banks and those who bought at 3kpsf have nothing to talk about except propertism, get my point?



Actually, properties are good things to be "stuck with". Frankly I won't know what to do with all the cash if I were to, so called, "offload my properties".

Read the Sunday Times interview below of a devout Propertist, Mr. Jean-Marc Jacot.

I was very stunned when I read this because all the things he said I would also have said if the reporters had interviewed me instead! :scared-4:

At first, I thought that the he was me, and I was him! :scared-4: Until I saw his portfolio of properties, which was worth several times mine, that I was convinced that I was not the one being interviewed. Whew! :scared-3:

Keeping a watch on property deals

Swiss watch veteran keeps very little in cash, and prefers to invest in real estate.

By Lorna Tan, Senior Correspondent, The Sunday Times, Dec 27, 2009

http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/business/12Dec09/images/20091228.123744_jeanmarcjacot.jpg
Mr Jean-Marc Jacot, global chief executive of watch maker Parmigiani

My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]

The value of property goes up slowly but it always trends upwards due to limited space and increasing populations. In the short term, it may not be the best investment.

My best investment to date is my house in St Tropez. I bought it 20 years ago at US$800,000 and it is now worth between US$5 million and US$6 million. The house is divided into two units, on the land area of 6,000 sq m. The kids use one unit and my wife and I, the other. We use the house several times a year.

I have two homes in France. Besides the family home in St Tropez, I have a three-storey house in a countryside village in the centre of France. The built-up area of the latter is 200 sq m and the land area is 2,000 sq m. I bought it 16 years ago for US$500,000 and it is now worth US$2 million. I use it twice a year.

In Geneva, Switzerland, I have eight properties that I rent out, besides the condominium that I live in. The largest rental property is a 400 sq m penthouse with a terrace. I bought it in 1997 for US$1.9 million, and it is valued at about US$3 million now. I'm renting it out for US$7,000 a month. The rest of the rental properties were bought in 1988, 2001 and 2002. They average about 150 sq m and they cost about US$7 million in all. My total rental income comes close to US$30,000.

jlrx
13-01-10, 15:48
Imagine a war or nuclear holocaust or something terrible like disese occurred in any of his properties, immediately the value may go overnight to zero.

I give you an example of the most "suay" (unlucky) person who bought a property just before war broke out.

Built in the 1920s as the home of entrepreneur and philanthropist Tan Kah Kee, the house was bought by Mr Tan Chin Tuan just before World War II broke out in 1939.


http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/Mansion2008.jpg

The Business Times, 1 Jun 2007

Tan Chin Tuan Mansion has been restored and redeveloped to include a luxury 20-storey condominium. But most of the units will only be for lease.

Four of the 16 units will be kept by the family of the late Tan Chin Tuan.

Based on the current benchmark price of about $2,500 psf for Suites @ Cairnhill, the remaining 12 have a market value of about $120 million.

The property has been redeveloped by a business entity called Cairnhill Rock and Chew Gek Khim, granddaughter of Tan Chin Tuan. 'It has always been the intention of the private company to keep the entire building for sentimental and historical reasons,' she said.

The units are large at almost 4,000 sq ft each. Rents have not been fixed. Ms Chew said they will be benchmarked to market rates. 'But we will be very selective in our choice of tenants, given the small number of units for lease and the fact that they will be living in close proximity to my family members.'

jlrx
13-01-10, 15:52
to some degree i agree with your propertism ..
BUT it is not a religion that everyone can accept faithfully

how many people can afford to only buy and not sell ?

all your examples are the RICH people ..

give me some example of those poor who practise propertism

Examples are aplenty. See below.

The Straits Times

Scenic drive

HDB flats with great views are in hot demand.

Tay Suan Chiang

Sat, Jun 23, 2007

http://www.asiaone.com/migrated/wdu/gardening/greenhavens/gallery/pics/20070623_001c.jpg

Madam Yeo Wee Geck on her 20th-storey Marine Parade unit. She can catch the sunrise as well as enjoy the sea view from her flat.

Mr Chris Koh, director of Dennis Wee Properties, says prices for private properties have soared over the past year due to the influx of investment from foreigners and buyers' confidence in the Singapore economy.

And that has also boosted the demand for HDB flats in good locations and on higher floors.

He cites the example of a five-room HDB flat in Marine Parade that has unblocked views of the sea. He says that, three years ago, it would have fetched about $350,000.

"A year ago, it could sell for $400,000. Today, buyers are willing to pay $500,000," he says.

But even though their flat may now fetch a higher price, some home owners are unwilling to sell.

Housewife Yeo Wee Geck, 85, is one. The grandmother of six lives with her only daughter and their maid in a five-room HDB flat in Marine Parade. She bought the 20th-storey unit in the early 1970s for $30,000.

She gets to watch the sun rise from her flat, as well as enjoy views of East Coast Park and the sea. "It is so breezy here. I won't move out," she says.

http://www.asiaone.com/migrated/wdu/gardening/greenhavens/gallery/pics/20070623_001b.jpg

Block 29 Marine Crescent. RETIREE P.R. Sharma, 81, has a view from his 20th-storey flat that many Singaporeans would envy.

His five-room HDB point-block flat overlooks East Coast Park and the city skyline in the distance. He can even see the sea from a side window and from the bedroom and living room.

He gets to enjoy the sunrise from his flat, watch planes land and take off from nearby Changi airport and count the number of tankers dotting the sea off East Coast Park.

He paid $35,500 for the flat in 1974, and says he was offered about $900,000 for it nearly 20 years ago. Property agents say the current selling rate for such a flat is $500,000.

He adds that even if he was offered $1million today, he would not sell it. He gets about three flyers a day from agents looking for sellers but he throws them in the bin without even looking at them.

jlrx
13-01-10, 16:05
Jean-Marc used the word INVESTMENT and all investments will eventually be realised into profit if not what is the point of investing? Property investors don not speak of sitting on a property forever they speak of exiting at a timne they deem is right.

Then you should ask Mr. Jean-Marc why he had been continuously buying properties since 22 years ago (1988), 20 years ago, 16 years ago, 13 years ago (in 1997), 2001 and 2002?

When is he going to start selling his properties and "realise into profits"?

The hint to this question could perhaps be found from his answer "My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]"


Wiki Answers

best - One that surpasses all others.

Regulators
14-01-10, 23:43
he will realise his profits when he needs the money, but in his case, he hardly needs it. the rich who buy multiple properties tend to make more from their businesses than selling properties so they wont usually bother selling a property if they like the properties they buy. also the rich tend to attach more feelings to the properties they hold. for normal people like you and me, a few hundred thousand dollars of gain in a property is sufficient to detach our sentiments from the brick and mortar, but that same situation has no effect on the rich who do not regard a few hundred k of gain as anything substantial...


Then you should ask Mr. Jean-Marc why he had been continuously buying properties since 22 years ago (1988), 20 years ago, 16 years ago, 13 years ago (in 1997), 2001 and 2002?

When is he going to start selling his properties and "realise into profits"?

The hint to this question could perhaps be found from his answer "My father advised me that the best long-term investments are in brick and mortar. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1226/buddyicons/[email protected]"


Wiki Answers

best - One that surpasses all others.

jlrx
15-01-10, 02:17
he will realise his profits when he needs the money, but in his case, he hardly needs it. the rich who buy multiple properties tend to make more from their businesses than selling properties so they wont usually bother selling a property if they like the properties they buy. also the rich tend to attach more feelings to the properties they hold. for normal people like you and me, a few hundred thousand dollars of gain in a property is sufficient to detach our sentiments from the brick and mortar, but that same situation has no effect on the rich who do not regard a few hundred k of gain as anything substantial...

This is one of the reasons why the rich get richer.

Because they don't have the urge to take profits, they are constantly vested in the property market; and since properties have a long-term tendency to appreciate, they will get richer and richer.

However, ordinary people like you and me do not need to despair.

We can also behave like the rich and reap the same rewards that they reap, by believing in Propertism!!! :cheers1:

As long as we have strong faith in the Propertism religion, and resist the urge to sell our properties everytime they appreciate a few hundred thousands, we can also reap the same heavenly rewards that accrue to esteemed families like the Tangs' Orchard Road goldmine; the OG Family's string of prime retail properties; Khoo Teck Puat's Goodwood Park; and Tan Chin Tuan's eponymous mansion. :cheers6:

proud owner
15-01-10, 02:27
This is one of the reasons why the rich get richer.

Because they don't have the urge to take profits, they are constantly vested in the property market; and since properties have a long-term tendency to appreciate, they will get richer and richer.

However, ordinary people like you and me do not need to despair.

We can also behave like the rich and reap the same rewards that they reap, by believing in Propertism!!! :cheers1:

As long as we have strong faith in the Propertism religion, and resist the urge to sell our properties everytime they appreciate a few hundred thousands, we can also reap the same heavenly rewards that accrue to esteemed families like the Tangs' Orchard Road goldmine; the OG Family's string of prime retail properties; Khoo Teck Puat's Goodwood Park; and Tan Chin Tuan's eponymous mansion. :cheers6:

so for the not rich like us .. how to make more ?
by holding on .. only means paper gain ..
needs to sell to realise the profit in order to buy another right ??

gfoo
15-01-10, 07:40
so for the not rich like us .. how to make more ?
by holding on .. only means paper gain ..
needs to sell to realise the profit in order to buy another right ??

alternatively grow by income ratio lah - family annual nett salary : amount in property.

A young couple 25-30 yrs old will make $100k avg, and that moves $1m. in 5 years, they should be making $200k to move $2m. buy according to leverage ratio lor

xebay11
15-01-10, 07:45
alternatively grow by income ratio lah - family annual nett salary : amount in property.

A young couple 25-30 yrs old will make $100k avg, and that moves $1m. in 5 years, they should be making $200k to move $2m. buy according to leverage ratio lor

35 years making $200k pa.....hmm I guess only on this forum. LOL.

This is the only forum I know where members actually mock HDB property with no impunity :D

gfoo
15-01-10, 07:48
35 years making $200k pa.....hmm I guess only on this forum. LOL.

This is the only forum I know where members actually mock HDB property with no impunity :D

family unit lah ie hubby and wifey working, take home $200k per annum, not per month. virt all my peers in school are drawing at least that so to me that's a good benchmark

xebay11
15-01-10, 08:25
family unit lah ie hubby and wifey working, take home $200k per annum, not per month. virt all my peers in school are drawing at least that so to me that's a good benchmark

Just kidding you. LOL!

Anyway your principle is correct, of buying based on future income is correct, my father taught me that too, but being young and relatively sheltered, I never knew that there were so many poor "I like smaller flats" peasants in Singapore, I had trouble disposing my first HDB which was an Executive Maisionette, all the Singkapooreans could only afford 4-5 room or smaller flats, so I sold below valuation......Damn.

ay123
15-01-10, 08:45
:p
so for the not rich like us .. how to make more ?
by holding on .. only means paper gain ..
needs to sell to realise the profit in order to buy another right ??

i agree......i do believe in propertism but somehow there must have a "cut-off" to realise the gain. thats the purpose of investing. if to buy and hold forever, that is not investment, is weath accumulation. Just like warren buffet who buy shares and hold forever. no doubt he is the 2nd richest man but he does not really enjoy the "rich". if buy and keep forever is the same as a man who earn $2000 per month and live happily and a man who is worth $100 million (paper worth) is also living happily. there is no different in their life.....so is really quite meaningless. so i still believe property will appreciate in long term but one should realise the gain and invest again.:p

Regulators
15-01-10, 12:56
and just to sum up, the rich are rich because of the millions they have accumulated in their banks over the years and not in the paper gains they make from their properties. A person needs to realise the profits by selling the property for it to be called an investment (whether long or short term). If a person buys a property and lives in it till the day he dies, even if the property has quadrupled in value, it is not called investment.

jlrx
15-01-10, 16:52
so for the not rich like us .. how to make more ?
by holding on .. only means paper gain .. needs to sell to realise the profit in order to buy another right ??


if buy and keep forever is the same as a man who earn $2000 per month and live happily and a man who is worth $100 million (paper worth) is also living happily. there is no different in their life.....so is really quite meaningless.. so i still believe property will appreciate in long term but one should realise the gain and invest again.:p

You sell your property and then buy someone else's property, that is wasting time and wasting money. It only makes the government, lawyers and property agents very rich with all the stamp duties, legal fees and commissions.

What I suggest is that proud owner sells his property to ay123, and ay123 sells his property to proud owner.

I think what you are looking for is that caveat record stating that you bought this property House 123, AY Road, for $1.5 million in 1999 and then sold it for $2.8 million in 2010.

Then you will feel very happy, "realising" $1.3 million of gain. Then you use that $2.8 million to buy #12-03, Proud Mansion, just to create another caveat record so that hopefully in another ten years, you can again create another caveat record at a higher price.

I tell you there is no need to go to all these trouble.

You can just look at your neighbours' transactions, and know how much your properties have appreciated.

I subscribed to Realink (by SISV) because URA doesn't provide house or unit number so I won't know how far the house is down the road; or which floor if it's a condo. However, nowadays there is this Streetsine.com which provides house and unit numbers as well.

Whenever the transacted price goes up, I go to my EXCEL spreadsheet to update my property portfolio, and the figure goes up. Also can feel equally happy. No need to sell in order to feel happy.

That's why I get very angry with those idiots who fire-sold their condos. It caused my spreadsheet figure to go down in early 2009. Now fortunately it's gone back up again and surpassed the previous peak. :cheers1:

Regulators
15-01-10, 23:51
jlrx, really sympathise with you and i think many would agree with me. People out there are making real profits and see money growing in the bank and you call urself a property investor by just observing market movements and gratifying urself by looking at ur spreadsheets? :doh: No doubt the govt gets to earn from those admin fee but property investors always factor that in and they still make decent gains despite all those admin fees so nobody harps on that. i think the whole concept of propertism should go down the drain unless the person is buying and keeping properties not for investment but more as a hobby, like keeping model cars and planes...:doh: :doh:


You sell your property and then buy someone else's property, that is wasting time and wasting money. It only makes the government, lawyers and property agents very rich with all the stamp duties, legal fees and commissions.

What I suggest is that proud owner sells his property to ay123, and ay123 sells his property to proud owner.

I think what you are looking for is that caveat record stating that you bought this property House 123, AY Road, for $1.5 million in 1999 and then sold it for $2.8 million in 2010.

Then you will feel very happy, "realising" $1.3 million of gain. Then you use that $2.8 million to buy #12-03, Proud Mansion, just to create another caveat record so that hopefully in another ten years, you can again create another caveat record at a higher price.

I tell you there is no need to go to all these trouble.

You can just look at your neighbours' transactions, and know how much your properties have appreciated.

I subscribed to Realink (by SISV) because URA doesn't provide house or unit number so I won't know how far the house is down the road; or which floor if it's a condo. However, nowadays there is this Streetsine.com which provides house and unit numbers as well.

Whenever the transacted price goes up, I go to my EXCEL spreadsheet to update my property portfolio, and the figure goes up. Also can feel equally happy. No need to sell in order to feel happy.

That's why I get very angry with those idiots who fire-sold their condos. It caused my spreadsheet figure to go down in early 2009. Now fortunately it's gone back up again and surpassed the previous peak. :cheers1:

Regulators
15-01-10, 23:55
to add on, it doesnt mean that if a bank values your property at 1 million for example, you are definitely able to sell it at 1 million. buying and selling property for investment is an art and those figures you see on the spreadsheets dont mean anything until you made a killing in the market. :cheers1:

jlrx
16-01-10, 00:28
jlrx, really sympathise with you and i think many would agree with me. People out there are making real profits and see money growing in the bank and you call urself a property investor by just observing market movements and gratifying urself by looking at ur spreadsheets? :doh:

Can you tell me what is the difference between looking at the bank statement of the money in the bank and looking at the spreadsheet of my property portfolio?

If you sell your properties in order to make so-called "real profits", then what are you going to do with a few million dollars of cash sitting in the bank? :confused:

Please do not tell me you are going to do what proud owner intends to do, i.e. donate to charity. :doh:



Then what are you going to do with all the cash if you sell a property?

I can't think of anything to buy with all the cash, other than another property.if i am retired .. then i might donate part of the money to charity ..

gfoo
16-01-10, 00:59
there is no such thing as Propertism.

Real estates should be viewed two ways: either for Investment or for Consumption

For Investment, have no heart, and transact when it reaches certain profit targets

For Consumption, one should try to reach lifestyle / QoL targets, but you must have a reserve requirement.

The only time your so-called Propertism comes into play is if one already has financial freedom, and accumulates fh land. pigeonholes in e sky ain't nice to accumulate, only good for consumption.

big benefit of having millions in e bank vs spreadsheet - one can go into a showroom and buy an aston martin on his black centurion at a whim.

Reporter
16-01-10, 01:00
In order to appreciate what "jlrx" is trying to preach, you will have to change your mindset that has been conditioned by others.

You must understand that money can be represented in 3 forms:
1. Commodity money (e.g. gold coins, seashells, chocolate bars, etc.).
2. Fiat money (e.g. banknotes, electronic cash, etc.)
3. Property (e.g. land, house, apartment, etc.).

If you can only see money in form 2 (i.e. fiat money), it will not work. You will want to sell your property to realise a "form-2" profit.

However, if you can appreciate form-3 money and profit, then you may even want to exchange your form-2 money into form-3 money.

The problem is not everyone is open to form-3 money yet.

proud owner
16-01-10, 01:11
In order to appreciate what "jlrx" is trying to preach, you will have to change your mindset that has been conditioned by others.

You must understand that money can be represented in 3 forms:
1. Commodity money (e.g. gold coins, seashells, chocolate bars, etc.).
2. Fiat money (e.g. banknotes, electronic cash, etc.)
3. Property (e.g. land, house, apartment, etc.).

If you can only see money in form 2 (i.e. fiat money), it will not work. You will want to sell your property to realise a "form-2" profit.

However, if you can appreciate form-3 money and profit, then you may even want to exchange your form-2 money into form-3 money.

The problem is not everyone is open to form-3 money yet.

and no everyone can afford to BUY only and NOT SELL ,...

at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...

and who knows .. they may SELL 1 property to finance a grand funeral ..


i am not cursing you.. i am only painting a possible scenario ..

buying a few properties and seeing them grow in value does give me some satisfaction ... but like gfoo said .. i need Quality of Life as well .. which I can well afford to .. by selling a property when it reaches my target ...

then on any retracement .. i can always buy another .. and add back to my portfolio ..

thats my strategy to achieve both investment and consumption ..

jlrx
16-01-10, 18:18
The superiority of the Propertism religion can be seen from the answers to my question "If you sell your properties, what are you going to do with all the cash in the bank?"


if i am retired .. then i might donate part of the money to charity ..

http://archiveu.mediacorptv.sg/administration/cms/pic/2007/Special/RenCi/renci-07-1.jpg


big benefit of having millions in e bank vs spreadsheet - one can go into a showroom and buy an aston martin on his black centurion at a whim.

http://liplip.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aston-martin-vanquish-s-front-1_682.jpg


What are you talking abt ? This is basic of modern economics of value of money.. Money as a medium of exchange. This is not barter trade. if value is only = "properties" , can you buy a packet of noodles with your it.


http://img.alibaba.com/photo/104313001/Paldo_Instant_Noodle_Soups.jpg

I still think properties are better investments than all the above. :cheers1:

Regulators
16-01-10, 19:53
there are a thousand and one things you can do with plenty of money in the bank. I for one love to go on holidays and one can also luxuriate himself with plenty of money.


The superiority of the Propertism religion can be seen from the answers to my question "If you sell your properties, what are you going to do with all the cash in the bank?"



http://archiveu.mediacorptv.sg/administration/cms/pic/2007/Special/RenCi/renci-07-1.jpg



http://liplip.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aston-martin-vanquish-s-front-1_682.jpg




http://img.alibaba.com/photo/104313001/Paldo_Instant_Noodle_Soups.jpg

I still think properties are better investments than all the above. :cheers1:

jlrx
16-01-10, 23:10
at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...


there are a thousand and one things you can do with plenty of money in the bank. I for one love to go on holidays and one can also luxuriate himself with plenty of money.

I don't see why "enjoy life to the fullest" and "pass on portfolio and spreadsheet to children and grandchildren" should be mutually exclusive.

Yes, there are "a thousand and one things" to do, including the most luxurious holidays, but they don't cost anything near the price of one property.

Even the famous (or infamous :p) Perm Sec's cooking holiday at the prestigious french cooking school, ‘Le Cordon Bleu’, costs only $46,500 for a family of three. Do you need to sell a property to finance such a trip?

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20090119/tanyongsoon.jpg

All these can just settle from cash account, or even through credit card instalments. Just make sure you settle in full every month.

Regulators
17-01-10, 21:43
if you dont know how you can spend your millions, i can definitely help you to spend some. :D



I don't see why "enjoy life to the fullest" and "pass on portfolio and spreadsheet to children and grandchildren" should be mutually exclusive.

Yes, there are "a thousand and one things" to do, including the most luxurious holidays, but they don't cost anything near the price of one property.

Even the famous (or infamous :p) Perm Sec's cooking holiday at the prestigious french cooking school, ‘Le Cordon Bleu’, costs only $46,500 for a family of three. Do you need to sell a property to finance such a trip?

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20090119/tanyongsoon.jpg

All these can just settle from cash account, or even through credit card instalments. Just make sure you settle in full every month.

jlrx
18-01-10, 02:31
if you dont know how you can spend your millions, i can definitely help you to spend some. :D

Then my portfolio spreadsheet numbers will fall !!! :scared-4:

Cannot! :tsk-tsk:

I think I'm going to put all my properties into a trust, with the term that they cannot be sold for eternity.

This will prevent them from being sold and then spent by other people. :p

I think the Government should make a law that when a person dies, all his properties must be put into a trust and cannot be sold for eternity.

His future generations can only withdraw the rental income.

In the event a property gets enbloc-ed, the receipt should be used to purchase another property.

This will have a stabilising effect on the property market, and ensure that property prices can only go up. :cheers6:

Then everybody lives happily ever after, thanks to Propertism religion's central tenet that properties should only be bought. Not sold. :cheers1:

ay123
18-01-10, 10:54
and no everyone can afford to BUY only and NOT SELL ,...

at the end of the day ... by your dying bed... you have millions ...but your never really got to enjoy life to the fullest, like how we all wanted ..

only to pass on your portfolio and spreadsheet to your children and grand children ...

and who knows .. they may SELL 1 property to finance a grand funeral ..


i am not cursing you.. i am only painting a possible scenario ..

buying a few properties and seeing them grow in value does give me some satisfaction ... but like gfoo said .. i need Quality of Life as well .. which I can well afford to .. by selling a property when it reaches my target ...

then on any retracement .. i can always buy another .. and add back to my portfolio ..

thats my strategy to achieve both investment and consumption ..

by leaving a large portfolio to next generation will create a problem to them too......imagine how much they have to pay for tax in order to inherit the properties........

Property_Owner
18-01-10, 11:17
Been rich can be bored at times.

Reporter
18-01-10, 11:22
by leaving a large portfolio to next generation will create a problem to them too......imagine how much they have to pay for tax in order to inherit the properties........
I thought we have abolished estate duty, or taxes collected on wealth left behind?
What tax are you talking about?

focus
18-01-10, 12:37
Been rich can be bored at times.

Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here? :)

Regulators
18-01-10, 13:43
the rich usually want to keep others from their league unless by sharing their wealth secrets, it would make them wealthier


Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here? :)

jlrx
18-01-10, 14:56
Been rich can be bored at times.Maybe you can be less bored if you start sharing some knowledge of property investment here? :)

To learn the knowledge of property investment, focus should put in the effort to travel to the southern mystical island - Sentosa Cove - to look for a man walking up and down the beach ... searching for "feeling".


Guys, I used to thought tat life in Sentosa is prefect and maybe what your guys mentioned as priceless or what seattle lakeside living. But till not I have not had this feeling at all. Sigh, been staying here for pass 1 month still searching for that feeling.:(

http://www.thermosgreenwood.com/Images/old_man_at_beach.jpg

xebay11
18-01-10, 14:58
I thought we have abolished estate duty, or taxes collected on wealth left behind?
What tax are you talking about?

Even if such taxes was still around you could always include the name of the scion as owner to avoid paying inheritance taxes am I correct?

focus
18-01-10, 23:34
To learn the knowledge of property investment, focus should put in the effort to travel to the southern mystical island - Sentosa Cove - to look for a man walking up and down the beach ... searching for "feeling".



Haha.. that's a good one :)
Ok, will go down one of these days to look for that someone with feeling..

jlrx
19-01-10, 00:40
Haha.. that's a good one :)
Ok, will go down one of these days to look for that someone with feeling..

You better inform Property_Owner first before you go down to Sentosa Cove to look for him, either via this forum or private message.

Don't just pop down impromptu and tap him on his shoulder "Hi!!! Are you Property_Owner?"

Otherwise, you may not be able to learn anything from him ...



Exclusive yes, but also extremely inconvenient. Old people who may need emergency medical treatment better avoid (because will die even before getting out of Sentosa in medical emergency). :banghead:
Nowsdays even before IR open the entry and exit to Sentosa is already quite jammed up.Hey, dun scare me leh. I'm a old man staying there with a weak heart. :scared-4:

Reporter
23-01-10, 23:53
http://www.sph.com.sg/images/logo_st.png
Landed homes lift private property market
Prices of landed property rose by 7.7% for the whole of last year
Fiona Chan
The Straits Times
Saturday, 23 January 2010

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20100123/a6-1.jpg
Prices of semi-detached homes rose by 8.8%, while prices of terrace houses shot up by 10% last year. -- Phhoto: Samuel Ee, ST

Landed homes turned out to be the star performer of the private property market last year, rising far more in price than other types of housing.

As a whole, detached, semi-detached and terrace houses jumped in price by 8.3% in the 4th quarter of last year and 7.7% for the whole of 2009.

This significantly outstripped condominiums and apartments, according to data released by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) yesterday.
Despite rising 7.2% in the fourth quarter, non-landed property registered a meagre 0.5% price increase for last year.

'Landed homes are limited in supply, so people always aspire towards owning one,' said Ms Chua Chor Hoon, head of South-east Asia research at DTZ Debenham Tie Leung.

'When the market was in a slump, some buyers took the chance to buy landed properties. And now that condominium prices have gone up a lot again, people are seeing better value in landed homes.'

Terrace houses, the cheapest type of landed housing, were the most sought-after. Prices of terraces shot up 10% last year, followed by semi-detached houses with an 8.8% rise.

Detached houses - which include good-class bungalows, the grande dames of Singapore property - rose in price by a smaller 5.6% last year.

Taken together with non-landed property, this translated into overall private home prices rising by 1.8% for the whole of last year.

The rise in prices, despite 2009 being a recession year, was entirely due to the property market roaring back to life in the second half of the year as the economy emerged from recession.

Private home prices jumped 7.4% in the fourth quarter, after soaring 15.8% in the third quarter, said the URA yesterday.

Unlike in earlier quarters, the price increase between October and December was led by more expensive homes nearer to town.

Prices of homes on the city-fringe (RCR) - covering the East Coast, Queenstown and Bishan - rose the most, by almost 10%.

Homes in the core central region (CCR), which refers to the prime districts of 9, 10, 11, Marina Bay and Sentosa, saw prices rise by 7.3%.

For the first time, suburban (OCR) homes were the laggard in the 4th quarter last year, with a price rise of only a 6.3%.

But although overall prices surged in the 4th quarter, home sales slowed considerably.

Only 1,860 new homes were sold in the final quarter of last year, just a third of the sales in the preceding quarter, said Mr Li Hiaw Ho, executive director of CB Richard Ellis Research.

Resale and sub-sale transactions fell by about half in the fourth quarter, which is traditionally a subdued period for home sales. Last year, this coincided with the introduction of government measures to cool the property market in September.

For the whole year, home buyers bought 14,688 new homes from developers and 18,129 homes from other home owners. While this was a big jump from the muted activity in 2008, sales were still lower than during the boom year of 2007, Mr Li said.

He expects home sales to moderate this year after last year's rapid buying activity.

About 8,000 to 10,000 new homes will probably be sold, while prices are projected to rise by 8% to 10% through the year, led by the high-end segment of the market, according to Mr Li's forecasts.

'Already, the year has started with a positive sentiment in light of the Government's forecast of 3% to 5% economic growth for the whole year,' he said. 'Increased hiring and pay rises are also on the cards.'

samsara
24-01-10, 08:02
It is a matter of time that foreigners will be allowed greater leeway where the purchase of landed property is concerned. In recent times, there have been many changes in policies across the board (some even complete U-turns). The implementation of the IRs and F1 racing in Singapore would not have taken place without those policy U-turns.

In 2005, foreigners were finally allowed to purchase apartments in all buildings without requiring prior approval by the relevant authorities in Singapore. This extended to not only leasehold properties but freehold ones as well. The change opened up the market to a lot more possible investment since there has always been strong foreign demand for properties in Singapore.

Currently foreigners require approval from SLA in order to purchase land-titled properties. As the process generally takes more than three weeks and does not always result in approvals, demand in land-titled properties by foreigners has not truly come in.

Sentosa was a test-bed for the reversal of the age-old rule. There were no stringent restrictions (generally) on foreigners buying landed properties there. The result was immense foreign demand manifesting itself. If the result of this is extrapolated to other landed properties on mainland Singapore, we will see huge demand arising if the current restrictions are lifted.

Will the current restrictions be lifted? There are many opponents to this possibility yet there are numerous proponents as well. For one, owners of landed properties will definitely benefit as any relaxation of the current restrictions will allow more foreign demand to come more easily into the market. Like boats in a small river, they will be lifted when the water (demand) level rises because of the opening floodgates (relaxation of restrictions on foreigners).

It is not a matter of if but when. Will you be in a boat when that happens?

proud owner
24-01-10, 08:26
It is a matter of time that foreigners will be allowed greater leeway where the purchase of landed property is concerned. In recent times, there have been many changes in policies across the board (some even complete U-turns). The implementation of the IRs and F1 racing in Singapore would not have taken place without those policy U-turns.

In 2005, foreigners were finally allowed to purchase apartments in all buildings without requiring prior approval by the relevant authorities in Singapore. This extended to not only leasehold properties but freehold ones as well. The change opened up the market to a lot more possible investment since there has always been strong foreign demand for properties in Singapore.

Currently foreigners require approval from SLA in order to purchase land-titled properties. As the process generally takes more than three weeks and does not always result in approvals, demand in land-titled properties by foreigners has not truly come in.

Sentosa was a test-bed for the reversal of the age-old rule. There were no stringent restrictions (generally) on foreigners buying landed properties there. The result was immense foreign demand manifesting itself. If the result of this is extrapolated to other landed properties on mainland Singapore, we will see huge demand arising if the current restrictions are lifted.

Will the current restrictions be lifted? There are many opponents to this possibility yet there are numerous proponents as well. For one, owners of landed properties will definitely benefit as any relaxation of the current restrictions will allow more foreign demand to come more easily into the market. Like boats in a small river, they will be lifted when the water (demand) level rises because of the opening floodgates (relaxation of restrictions on foreigners).

It is not a matter of if but when. Will you be in a boat when that happens?

for monetary gain ..i do hope foreigners can be allowed to buy landed on mainland ..
for for selfish sporean reasons .. i hope not

we are unlike other countries where land is vast .. if foreigners are allowed to buy landed .. there will be NO CHANCE for singaporeans to fulfil their dreams of living and owning a piece of 'heart land'

Sentosa is a different story .. its 99 LH .. it does make make up a basic permanent residence but one for luxurious indulgence .. mind you .. govt is making shxt loads of $$ from selling the land ...for 99 yrs ...

samsara
24-01-10, 08:34
for monetary gain ..i do hope foreigners can be allowed to buy landed on mainland ..
for for selfish sporean reasons .. i hope not

we are unlike other countries where land is vast .. if foreigners are allowed to buy landed .. there will be NO CHANCE for singaporeans to fulfil their dreams of living and owning a piece of 'heart land'

Sentosa is a different story .. its 99 LH .. it does make make up a basic permanent residence but one for luxurious indulgence .. mind you .. govt is making shxt loads of $$ from selling the land ...for 99 yrs ...
When you own a FH strata-titled apartment, you too own a piece of land. It is just that the land is shared by all the strata-title owners of the plot of land on which the strata building sits.

Where then is the differentiation between ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and ownership of FH land? In both cases, there is still ownership of land involved. By this analogy, would it not seem apparent that it is a matter of time that even direct FH land ownership by foreigners would be allowed since foreign ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and, transitively, of the FH land on which the apartments sit, is already permitted?

The relaxation is likely happen in stages where the 99-LH landed properties are first opened up for purchase by foreigners since the window period of ownership is smaller and the government thus retains certain control of redevelopment in future. That would be followed by 999-LH and eventually FH although the time frame of such liberalisation and policy U-turns will be dependent on the overall direction of Singapore evolution as a country (sorry, city I mean).

proud owner
24-01-10, 08:53
When you own a FH strata-titled apartment, you too own a piece of land. It is just that the land is shared by all the strata-title owners of the plot of land on which the strata building sits.

Where then is the differentiation between ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and ownership of FH land? In both cases, there is still ownership of land involved. By this analogy, would it not seem apparent that it is a matter of time that even direct FH land ownership by foreigners would be allowed since foreign ownership of FH strata-titled apartments and, transitively, of the FH land on which the apartments sit, is already permitted?

The relaxation is likely happen in stages where the 99-LH landed properties are first opened up for purchase by foreigners since the window period of ownership is smaller and the government thus retains certain control of redevelopment in future. That would be followed by 999-LH and eventually FH although the time frame of such liberalisation and policy U-turns will be dependent on the overall direction of Singapore evolution as a country (sorry, city I mean).

in a small country like ours .. i dont see it as a possibility at all ..
we simply cannot afford to 'lose ground' ...

samsara
24-01-10, 09:00
in a small country like ours .. i dont see it as a possibility at all ..
we simply cannot afford to 'lose ground' ...
You have already stated the key to this change. In a country it is not possible. However, we are not a country as it has been pointed out by one of our fellowmen. We are a city.

A country is one in which there is loyalty by the state to the people, there is loyalty by the people to the state and there is loyalty by the people to the people. How many of these three conditions do we see today?

If we are not a country and are just a city then inevitably there is little need to preserve/reserve "land" for the people since as globe-trotting city-dwellers, we will just move on as and when environmental conditions change.

proud owner
24-01-10, 09:56
You have already stated the key to this change. In a country it is not possible. However, we are not a country as it has been pointed out by one of our fellowmen. We are a city.

A country is one in which there is loyalty by the state to the people, there is loyalty by the people to the state and there is loyalty by the people to the people. How many of these three conditions do we see today?

If we are not a country and are just a city then inevitably there is little need to preserve/reserve "land" for the people since as globe-trotting city-dwellers, we will just move on as and when environmental conditions change.

i dont see why a city state need not preserve land for its people ..

in Manhattan .. there are even condos where buyers/renters have to be approved by the rest of the owners ..

name me a city state where you can buy landed house ...

samsara
24-01-10, 10:25
i dont see why a city state need not preserve land for its people ..

in Manhattan .. there are even condos where buyers/renters have to be approved by the rest of the owners ..

name me a city state where you can buy landed house ...

The approval of buyers/renters by the rest of the owners is not a mechanism to safeguard "land" ownership. It is more of a soft-regulatory mechanism which transfers the work of ensuring the homogeneity of the estate/project (whichever dimension that homogeneity may operate in based on their environment and culture) to the rest of the owners there.

As far I as know, there is no restriction on foreign property ownership in Monaco (another city-state).

proud owner
24-01-10, 11:02
The approval of buyers/renters by the rest of the owners is not a mechanism to safeguard "land" ownership. It is more of a soft-regulatory mechanism which transfers the work of ensuring the homogeneity of the estate/project (whichever dimension that homogeneity may operate in based on their environment and culture) to the rest of the owners there.

As far I as know, there is no restriction on foreign property ownership in Monaco (another city-state).

i just searched online .. for HOUSES, Bungalows, Land for sale in Monaco .. and NO results

BUT for apts/ flats ...A lot

either theres not a single HOUSE or LAND for sale
or there arent any landed house in monaco at all

samsara
24-01-10, 11:13
i just searched online .. for HOUSES, Bungalows, Land for sale in Monaco .. and NO results

BUT for apts/ flats ...A lot

either theres not a single HOUSE or LAND for sale
or there arent any landed house in monaco at all

Here's one link to a villa on sale (going at EUR2.7m):

http://www.europeanproperty.com/sales/property786-539

samsara
24-01-10, 11:17
Here's one link to a villa on sale (going at EUR2.7m):

http://www.europeanproperty.com/sales/property786-539
A listing of houses/villas for sale there:

http://www.europeanproperty.com/prop-search-results.php?cid=mc&region=1040&type=1&search

EUR85m! That will be what houses may be going for once Singapore completes her transformation into the new Monaco/Monte Carlo of the 21st Century.

proud owner
24-01-10, 11:22
Here's one link to a villa on sale (going at EUR2.7m):

http://www.europeanproperty.com/sales/property786-539


ahahaaha

good try

but

Roquebrune cap martin is in France ...NEAR MONACO ...not in Monaco

samsara
24-01-10, 11:47
ahahaaha

good try

but

Roquebrune cap martin is in France ...NEAR MONACO ...not in Monaco

Here's one in Monaco that's going for EUR10m:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/130052/Villa-in-Monaco-centre-Monte-Carlo-Monaco/

and another going for EUR4.5m:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/131367/Villa-in-Santa-Monica-Monte-Carlo-Monaco/

proud owner
24-01-10, 11:58
Here's one in Monaco that's going for EUR10m:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/130052/Villa-in-Monaco-centre-Monte-Carlo-Monaco/

and another going for EUR4.5m:

http://www.prestigeproperty.co.uk/property/131367/Villa-in-Santa-Monica-Monte-Carlo-Monaco/

bro, or sis
indeed they are in monaco .. first one quite wierd leh ..
land 150 sqm , floor 400 sqm
and said Independent entries ( do they mean entrance?)
sounds like our cluster terrace concept

second one is Apt lah ..

find me a detached house or bungalow ..can ?

thanks for help while i am watching Australia Open ...

if i dont reply later ... only means i am sleeping ... sorry hor .. i not in spore time zone

blackswan
24-01-10, 14:15
if you ask a Property agent, have you heard one that say " Dun buy now, price is too high wait for it to come down"? Or mostly likely will you be hearing "Its the best time to BUY NOW, land is scare in SG, economy improving, this is the bottom liao, can't get any worse....etc"

if you ask an Insurance agent, you will also hear them telling you "accident happen everyday and everywhere, are you sure you dun want to be covered....or are you sure what ever cover you have is enough??? YOU NEED TO BUY MORE"

if you talk to a Relationship Manager about investment you will also be hearing "Its the best time to invest now, the worst is over...market always GO UP IN THE LONG RUN"

Anyway happy Sunday and for some bros and sis here, enjoy being SPIN, where its property, insurance or investment....