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lchunleo
16-02-10, 22:04
Hi all,

Am new to this forum and hope some one can advise me on the following information. Thanks

1) Do HDB dweller need to occupy their flat to 5 years before they can purchase a private property?
2) For a completed private property, how much (in %) do one need to cater for? believe it is very different from a new condo which one only paid 5% and paid in installment till the TOP.
3) What is justifying the rising price of the private property? flipping thro' the classified ads, i see alot of house on sale, how come yet reported by the news that demand outstrip supply?

Thanks

Condorich
17-02-10, 12:48
Hi all,

Am new to this forum and hope some one can advise me on the following information. Thanks

1) Do HDB dweller need to occupy their flat to 5 years before they can purchase a private property?
2) For a completed private property, how much (in %) do one need to cater for? believe it is very different from a new condo which one only paid 5% and paid in installment till the TOP.
3) What is justifying the rising price of the private property? flipping thro' the classified ads, i see alot of house on sale, how come yet reported by the news that demand outstrip supply?

Thanks

1. It depends on whether you are under HDB rules, 5 years or 3 years, check with HDB and ask for letter of eligibility to purchase a private property. Easy to do through the HDB website.

2. As much as you could.. LOL... Should be minimally 20% (5% cash + 15 %CPF) plus stamp duties... go through a financial planner or a loan expert. 30% to 50% is pretty right.

3. Justified by the owner's asking price, they keep going up and nothing is going to stop them :) unless something bad happen..

lchunleo
17-02-10, 20:48
1. It depends on whether you are under HDB rules, 5 years or 3 years, check with HDB and ask for letter of eligibility to purchase a private property. Easy to do through the HDB website.

2. As much as you could.. LOL... Should be minimally 20% (5% cash + 15 %CPF) plus stamp duties... go through a financial planner or a loan expert. 30% to 50% is pretty right.

3. Justified by the owner's asking price, they keep going up and nothing is going to stop them :) unless something bad happen..

Thanks for your reply :) i just can't help thinking what is the rationale for buyers to accept such as higher and higher prices..."tulipmania" syndrome? :beats-me-man:

Blue
17-02-10, 23:37
It's Hello Kitty syndrome. I can still recall the buying frenzy and long overnight queues outside Mcdonalds a couple of year back when folks are all so crazy over buying up the full collection of Hello Kitty series.

Secondary market for these soft toys were sky high, and then when the hype is gone, the toys are worthless!!!

But of cos, property is not Hello Kitty. Buying a property to stay is a long term investment but buying purely on short term speculations with the aim to flip a couple hundreds of thousands and with no intention to stay or hold for a long term, this is risky and may end up like Hello Kitty!!!

jlrx
18-02-10, 01:00
Thanks for your reply :) i just can't help thinking what is the rationale for buyers to accept such as higher and higher prices..."tulipmania" syndrome? :beats-me-man:
You are confused because you have not seen the light. http://www.rnel.net/images/tutorials/tunnel_of_light-5694.jpg

Let me introduce you to my religion Propertism, the belief that property prices will always go up in the long term, simply because paper money will eventually lose all its value.

It is an illusion that property prices have gone up. Actually property prices have not gone up at all. It's the value of paper money becoming "lower and lower", that gave you the illusion that property prices were becoming "higher and higher".

Just look at this 1977 classified ad of a 30,000 sf Queen Astrid Park detached bungalow asking $500,000, i.e. $17 psf or 0.06 sq ft per $.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/QueenAstridParkBungalow19771114.jpg

Year 2010
Development Name: Queen Astrid Bungalow 25,500 sqft
Price: S$ 26,800,000
$1,051 psf or 0.001 sq ft per $

Instead of thinking that the price had gone up from $17 psf to $1,051 psf, what happened was that the value of money had decreased from 0.06 sq ft per dollar to 0.001 sq ft per dollar.

Have you ever been in a stationary car, and the car parked next to you suddenly started moving forward? It gave you the illusion that you were moving backwards. :scared-4:

Here are some verses from the Great Saints of the Propertism Religion (including myself). :ashamed1:

“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (1937) (21 June 1880 - 16 April 1941)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

“The problem with fiat money is that it rewards the minority that can handle money, but fools the generation that has worked and saved money.”
- Adam Smith (16 June 1723 – 17 July 1790)

“In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.”
- Alan Greenspan, Gold and Economic Freedom (1968) (born March 6, 1926)

"In the absence of the gold standard. The only way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation is Propertism. The ability to "handle money" is to get rid of money immediately and convert them into properties".

- jlrx, CONDOsingapore.com (joined Apr 2008).

Regulators
18-02-10, 10:15
Bro, it is not about whether property prices will go up for certain, it is about when property prices will go up. Some people who bought at the peak in the 90s have yet to see the light inflation or no inflation. Some people who bought properties in 2004/5 have already made their millions by now.



You are confused because you have not seen the light. http://www.rnel.net/images/tutorials/tunnel_of_light-5694.jpg

Let me introduce you to my religion Propertism, the belief that property prices will always go up in the long term, simply because paper money will eventually lose all its value.

It is an illusion that property prices have gone up. Actually property prices have not gone up at all. It's the value of paper money becoming "lower and lower", that gave you the illusion that property prices were becoming "higher and higher".

Just look at this 1977 classified ad of a 30,000 sf Queen Astrid Park detached bungalow asking $500,000, i.e. $17 psf or 0.06 sq ft per $.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/QueenAstridParkBungalow19771114.jpg

Year 2010
Development Name: Queen Astrid Bungalow 25,500 sqft
Price: S$ 26,800,000
$1,051 psf or 0.001 sq ft per $

Instead of thinking that the price had gone up from $17 psf to $1,051 psf, what happened was that the value of money had decreased from 0.06 sq ft per dollar to 0.001 sq ft per dollar.

Have you ever been in a stationary car, and the car parked next to you suddenly started moving forward? It gave you the illusion that you were moving backwards. :scared-4:

Here are some verses from the Great Saints of the Propertism Religion (including myself). :ashamed1:

“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (1937) (21 June 1880 - 16 April 1941)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

“The problem with fiat money is that it rewards the minority that can handle money, but fools the generation that has worked and saved money.”
- Adam Smith (16 June 1723 – 17 July 1790)

“In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation.”
- Alan Greenspan, Gold and Economic Freedom (1968) (born March 6, 1926)

"In the absence of the gold standard. The only way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation is Propertism. The ability to "handle money" is to get rid of money immediately and convert them into properties".

- jlrx, CONDOsingapore.com (joined Apr 2008).

mcmlxxvi
18-02-10, 13:55
As most property agents will tell you, property is about Location, Location, Location. Some forgot to tell you it is also about Timing, Timing, Timing.

jlrx
18-02-10, 13:57
Bro, it is not about whether property prices will go up for certain, it is about when property prices will go up. Some people who bought at the peak in the 90s have yet to see the light inflation or no inflation. Some people who bought properties in 2004/5 have already made their millions by now.

You have raised a very good point.

Luck plays a very important part in our lives, and luck is something we cannot control.

However, since properties will always go up in the long term, those holding properties (even the most unlucky ones) will still do better than those who hold cash (over the long term).

Let me give an illustration.

Cash = Bicycle
Properties = Cars

Which one will get you further in life?

Ok. Some people are luckier, they have a Ferrari and ZOOOMMMMM ... off they go (those who bought in 2004/5).

Some people are not so lucky, they have a car with a punctured tyre (those who bought in peak in the 90s). :doh: These people must be thinking that they would be better off with a bicycle (CASH). WRONG!!! Once the tyre has been changed, they will overtake those in bicycles in no time (although still behind those in Ferraris).

Talking about not seeing light, those who bought Pin Tjoe Park back in 1984 were underwater for many years.


Before we look at the Next Asia Crisis, let's look at a Past Asia Crisis, and how strong faith in the Propertism religion will help one overcome a crisis.

During my sermon in the Property market sentiments 2010, I highlighted the plight of 34 unfortunate families who bought Pin Tjoe Park back in 1984, shortly before Singapore's first recession in 1985.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/PinTjoePark28Oct1984.jpg

The recession of 1985 hit sharp and hard!!!

The market plunged 38%. Each apartment at Pin Tjoe Park plunged from an average of $882,000 to $547,000, a whopping loss of $335,000 !!!

The recession of 1985 was so bad that even the Godfather of Propertism, FEO, had to suspend bonuses for the entire year of 1985, due to the "serious recession and glut" !!! :scared-4:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/FEOSuspendsBonus1986.jpg

As usual, when the sun is down, the Hungry Ghosts SEE BLOOD and come out to romp. In those days, the Straits Times forum complainers did not have to provide their real name. So this one called "Pro Market Forces" wrote gleefully "It is my view that people have been gazing at the crystal ball through rose-tinted glasses ... the property companies have made money. They have continued to push up prices because of their buoyed expectations. They tendered for projects, outbid each other, and pushed up prices ... " Hmmm ... does this sound familiar? Somehow I have a sense of deja vu here.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/ProMarket1985.jpg

Can you imagine the despair of our brethren at Pin Tjoe Park?

The sky was dark and the future was bleak. There was no light at the end of the tunnel. :scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3:

Fortunately, a Saint descended from Heaven at this moment to give some words of encouragement.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/RichardHuPropertyMustBounceBack1985.jpg

Saint Hu said, "The property market must bounce back if the economy continues to grow. If you assume the economy as a whole is going to continue to grow, property must recover because we have limited land."

With these words of reassurance, our brethren's faith in Propertism was greatly strengthened.

They realised that properties should only be bought. Not sold. Unless through en bloc, then quickly buy a replacement property.

Business Times – 22 Sep 2006
Pontiac Land Group buys Pin Tjoe Court for $201m
(SINGAPORE) The existing Pin Tjoe Court comprises 32 apartments and two penthouses. The apartment owners will receive $5.5 million per unit and the penthouse owners $11 million per unit. These sums are about 75 per cent more than the units could fetch had they been sold individually.

Regulators
18-02-10, 14:54
Good fairy tale ending for those at Pin Tjoe Park


You have raised a very good point.

Luck plays a very important part in our lives, and luck is something we cannot control.

However, since properties will always go up in the long term, those holding properties (even the most unlucky ones) will still do better than those who hold cash (over the long term).

Let me give an illustration.

Cash = Bicycle
Properties = Cars

Which one will get you further in life?

Ok. Some people are luckier, they have a Ferrari and ZOOOMMMMM ... off they go (those who bought in 2004/5).

Some people are not so lucky, they have a car with a punctured tyre (those who bought in peak in the 90s). :doh: These people must be thinking that they would be better off with a bicycle (CASH). WRONG!!! Once the tyre has been changed, they will overtake those in bicycles in no time (although still behind those in Ferraris).

Talking about not seeing light, those who bought Pin Tjoe Park back in 1984 were underwater for many years.

lchunleo
18-02-10, 21:47
thanks for all your responses,..i not sure if anyone agrees but i felt luck comes with a prepared mind, my 2cents worth..:) money is earned with foresight and courage and sometimes, being a contrarian. for those who bought during the down peak, i applaud to their courage to do so as it is not easy emotionally when your rice bowl is shaking to crack...:scared-4: it is not difficult to look back and say "what IF time can go back, i will do so" but rather are one ready to act when "opportunities" present itself..when hell breaks loose...:scared-5:

i agree, paper money is nothing if it not pledge to some real assets e.g. gold / properties..however i do feel that the property market is way too high..when paid price float too much above the real fundamental valuation price..a long wait due correction? :p

Regulators
18-02-10, 22:21
When you say high, you are referring to high relative to property prices many years ago. When people in the future say that property prices are high, they will refer to the high relative to now. We never know when property prices are really high until it reaches a new height. Our closest Asian neighbour in terms of financial prowess is HK and you just need to compare property prices there to Singapore and our high is really nothing compared to the high in HK. If you are going the way of HK, our prices have yet to reach its peak or I should say we are far from it.


thanks for all your responses,..i not sure if anyone agrees but i felt luck comes with a prepared mind, my 2cents worth..:) money is earned with foresight and courage and sometimes, being a contrarian. for those who bought during the down peak, i applaud to their courage to do so as it is not easy emotionally when your rice bowl is shaking to crack...:scared-4: it is not difficult to look back and say "what IF time can go back, i will do so" but rather are one ready to act when "opportunities" present itself..when hell breaks loose...:scared-5:

i agree, paper money is nothing if it not pledge to some real assets e.g. gold / properties..however i do feel that the property market is way too high..when paid price float too much above the real fundamental valuation price..a long wait due correction? :p

DC33_2008
19-02-10, 08:52
thanks for all your responses,..i not sure if anyone agrees but i felt luck comes with a prepared mind, my 2cents worth..:) money is earned with foresight and courage and sometimes, being a contrarian. for those who bought during the down peak, i applaud to their courage to do so as it is not easy emotionally when your rice bowl is shaking to crack...:scared-4: it is not difficult to look back and say "what IF time can go back, i will do so" but rather are one ready to act when "opportunities" present itself..when hell breaks loose...:scared-5:

i agree, paper money is nothing if it not pledge to some real assets e.g. gold / properties..however i do feel that the property market is way too high..when paid price float too much above the real fundamental valuation price..a long wait due correction? :p

All kinds of investment have risks. It depends on your appetite and capacity. No risk No gain. Risk can be lower with the smarter investor.

tanumy
19-02-10, 21:43
buy double bay residence located at simei for invesment purpose.

Condorich
20-02-10, 05:26
Sub Sale results

17 Simei Street 4 #07-04
$692 936 $648k 21-May-09
17 Simei Street 4 #07-04
$764 936 $715k 4-Aug-09

17A Simei Street 4 #01-05
$436 1647 $717k 23-Mar-09
17A Simei Street 4 #01-05
$486 1647 $800k 16-Jul-09

17C Simei Street 4 #01-13
$409 1765 $722k 2-Apr-09
17C Simei Street 4 #01-13
$450 1765 $795k 5-Aug-09

17C Simei Street 4 #02-16
$780 538 $420k 27-Mar-09
17C Simei Street 4 #02-16
$883 538 $475k 11-Sep-09

17C Simei Street 4 #04-16
$737 936 $690k 15-Dec-09
17C Simei Street 4 #04-16
$648 936 $606k 14-Apr-09

17C Simei Street 4 #08-14
$707 1001 $708k 11-Dec-09
17C Simei Street 4 #08-14
$652 1001 $653k 27-Mar-09

19 Simei Street 4 #03-20
$642 936 $600k 27-Mar-09
19 Simei Street 4 #03-20
$747 936 $700k 14-Dec-09

19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$966 538 $520k 17-Dec-09
19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$833 538 $448k 26-Mar-09

19C Simei Street 4 #09-30
$674 1367 $921k 27-Mar-09
19C Simei Street 4 #09-30
$721 1367 $986k 2-Nov-09

19C Simei Street 4 #10-31
$790 936 $739k 26-Nov-09
19C Simei Street 4 #10-31
$667 936 $624k 30-Mar-09

21 Simei Street 4 #02-39
$480 1819 $873k 6-Apr-09
21 Simei Street 4 #02-39
$616 1819 $1120k 3-Aug-09

By PSF - Lowest
17A Simei Street 4 #01-06
$409 1765 $722k 7-Apr-09

By PSF - Highest
19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$966 538 $520k 17-Dec-09

tanumy
20-02-10, 06:03
Great subsale return. Due to upcoming singapore 4th uni and development of changi business park a great place to invest.



Sub Sale results

17 Simei Street 4 #07-04
$692 936 $648k 21-May-09
17 Simei Street 4 #07-04
$764 936 $715k 4-Aug-09

17A Simei Street 4 #01-05
$436 1647 $717k 23-Mar-09
17A Simei Street 4 #01-05
$486 1647 $800k 16-Jul-09

17C Simei Street 4 #01-13
$409 1765 $722k 2-Apr-09
17C Simei Street 4 #01-13
$450 1765 $795k 5-Aug-09

17C Simei Street 4 #02-16
$780 538 $420k 27-Mar-09
17C Simei Street 4 #02-16
$883 538 $475k 11-Sep-09

17C Simei Street 4 #04-16
$737 936 $690k 15-Dec-09
17C Simei Street 4 #04-16
$648 936 $606k 14-Apr-09

17C Simei Street 4 #08-14
$707 1001 $708k 11-Dec-09
17C Simei Street 4 #08-14
$652 1001 $653k 27-Mar-09

19 Simei Street 4 #03-20
$642 936 $600k 27-Mar-09
19 Simei Street 4 #03-20
$747 936 $700k 14-Dec-09

19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$966 538 $520k 17-Dec-09
19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$833 538 $448k 26-Mar-09

19C Simei Street 4 #09-30
$674 1367 $921k 27-Mar-09
19C Simei Street 4 #09-30
$721 1367 $986k 2-Nov-09

19C Simei Street 4 #10-31
$790 936 $739k 26-Nov-09
19C Simei Street 4 #10-31
$667 936 $624k 30-Mar-09

21 Simei Street 4 #02-39
$480 1819 $873k 6-Apr-09
21 Simei Street 4 #02-39
$616 1819 $1120k 3-Aug-09

By PSF - Lowest
17A Simei Street 4 #01-06
$409 1765 $722k 7-Apr-09

By PSF - Highest
19 Simei Street 4 #06-19
$966 538 $520k 17-Dec-09

jitkiat
20-02-10, 09:33
IMO DBR is good for owner occupation as you are not paying crazy psf like 1500psf at Siglap next to traffic juntion without MRT. If I am not mistaken, still left one 3br #04-54 below 700psf facing south.... grep it b4 it is gone ... at this kind of psf you have a huge safety margin as 3br Casa Merah one MRT away already hit 850psf. If 700psf too expensive, consider Simei Green next door at about 600psf.

Property_Owner
20-02-10, 20:25
IMO DBR is good for owner occupation as you are not paying crazy psf like 1500psf at Siglap next to traffic juntion without MRT. If I am not mistaken, still left one 3br #04-54 below 700psf facing south.... grep it b4 it is gone ... at this kind of psf you have a huge safety margin as 3br Casa Merah one MRT away already hit 850psf. If 700psf too expensive, consider Simei Green next door at about 600psf.

anyway these 2 are better then Ferraria park

tanumy
21-02-10, 13:20
DBR always has been superb.





anyway these 2 are better then Ferraria park

marktkt22
08-05-10, 22:29
anyway these 2 are better then Ferraria park

reason. ..? ..is it becos u feel that ferr park , as well as gale location is too ulu...? or that their pricing is already stretched at >700psf...

I myself feel that it crazy such an ulu location next to changi prison stretch can command such premium, and there are no amenities nearby. :confused:

devilplate
08-05-10, 23:04
reason. ..? ..is it becos u feel that ferr park , as well as gale location is too ulu...? or that their pricing is already stretched at >700psf...

I myself feel that it crazy such an ulu location next to changi prison stretch can command such premium, and there are no amenities nearby. :confused:

700psf for FH ppty is not crazy anymore given new 99LH mass market breakeven price will be 600psf min in today's context.

u see Treehouse from 800psf 99LH...:D