View Full Version : Freehold vs lease hold 99 after the recent news
In the past when I asked around, most told me that freehold or leasehold doesn't matter, what matters is location. Since my hubby and I are buying for own stay rather than investment, we chose to buy freehold. we own a HDB 5 room flat which we bought for only $240K, so we will use that as an investment for rental instead. 20 to 30 years later, we will sell our freehold unit and move back to our HDB. When we heard the recent news regarding developer retaining freehold land selling as leasehold, we were glad that our decision to choose freehold is right since it will become more valuable in future.
However after some thought, it may not be the case. maybe I am wrong. More leasehold property means prices will go down. we bought our FH 2 bedrm penthouse unit at high price of $953K at $983psf. If future prices of leasehold property is low, we may not be able to sell FH unit at high price becos we will always be competing with new leasehold project which is much affordable. So for future buyers, it will not be advisable to buy FH units. Those who bought freehold units in the past may stand to gain.
Yes I do need some enlightenment as I may be wrong :p
Property_Owner
21-03-10, 18:02
When we heard the recent news regarding developer retaining freehold land selling as leasehold,
what news?
My principle no 1 still location, location, location!
Squall8888
21-03-10, 19:19
Yup. It is the location that matters. The term FH is just some tricks agents market for FH properties. Just look around some LH99 properties and see how prices spiral up. 200 to 300%. FH, I have seen prices dropping and never recover as well. It is the location and not FH vs LH. I don't think anyone should still bother as history has shown AND proven there is little correlation between the prices and FH.
Just pause and think - Which is the most expensive condo in Singapore? Orchard Residences, LH99. And of course, MBR and Sail are LH99 as well. Mirage towers, FH, go check out the history of prices. Maybe you might want to compare with Citylights, a 99LH but in a better location. Then you will understand location is superior and NOT FH or LH.
But of course, if you think FH is better, by all means, go buy. It is just IMO FH is a marketing tactics by developer. Once the condo hit pass its prime age, FH or LH, the value doesn't hold. But again, this is strictly my personal opinion.
In the past when I asked around, most told me that freehold or leasehold doesn't matter, what matters is location. Since my hubby and I are buying for own stay rather than investment, we chose to buy freehold. we own a HDB 5 room flat which we bought for only $240K, so we will use that as an investment for rental instead. 20 to 30 years later, we will sell our freehold unit and move back to our HDB. When we heard the recent news regarding developer retaining freehold land selling as leasehold, we were glad that our decision to choose freehold is right since it will become more valuable in future.
However after some thought, it may not be the case. maybe I am wrong. More leasehold property means prices will go down. we bought our FH 2 bedrm penthouse unit at high price of $953K at $983psf. If future prices of leasehold property is low, we may not be able to sell FH unit at high price becos we will always be competing with new leasehold project which is much affordable. So for future buyers, it will not be advisable to buy FH units. Those who bought freehold units in the past may stand to gain.
Yes I do need some enlightenment as I may be wrong :p
There is no arguement, simply put, if FH prices are high, it would mean demand is high, so no worries about selling in future, or wait for enbloc.
Property_Owner
21-03-10, 19:45
Originally Posted by ocoloco79
Yes I do need some enlightenment as I may be wrong
Don't be spoon fed lah. Go and dig up old old threads and read, instead of asking for information that had been repeated more then 52 times a years.
what news?
My principle no 1 still location, location, location!
Yes, so well located FH would trounce well located LH in the long run,
The Sail is still relatively new, so prices will climb, come back again in 40 years and we will see. There is no FH land in the Marina Bay area to compete with the LH properties there, so of course the LH properties there would appreciate but what about the outlying areas? In my line of work, I can tell you that the resale prices for suburban mass market LH property to say the least, is dismal
THERE IS A 999LH DEVELOPMENT NOT FAR FROM MARINA BAY.
Regulators
22-03-10, 01:43
actually to people living in large countries, singapore is actually just like a city in their country and everywhere is close to everywhere in singapore. it takes 1/2 an hour to drive from Jurong to the Central and 45min to drive from Changi to jurong. Amenities are actually near to every residential area depending on how people term as far. Singapore is typically about the only country with people grumbling that 500m to the MRT station and shops is far. I think a lot of home buyers in singapore tend to use a handicap man on a wheelchair as a gauge when it comes to determining what is far. The old ladies who take 20 minute walks to bus stations during winter and working people who commute 2-3 hours to work every day in London can really put Singaporeans to shame.
what news?
My principle no 1 still location, location, location!
Regulators
22-03-10, 01:47
Geylang not too far from Marina Bay with plenty of freehold condos there. Geylang will shoot up to $1500psf the moment the govt cleans up the red light and transform the area into a condo hub
THERE IS A 999LH DEVELOPMENT NOT FAR FROM MARINA BAY.
what news?
My principle no 1 still location, location, location!
Yes, so well located FH would trounce well located LH in the long run,
The Sail is still relatively new, so prices will climb, come back again in 40 years and we will see. There is no FH land in the Marina Bay area to compete with the LH properties there, so of course the LH properties there would appreciate but what about the outlying areas? In my line of work, I can tell you that the resale prices for suburban mass market LH property to say the least, is dismal
FH or LH does not matter that much at the beginning of the condo's life, but matters very much near the end.
If you are playing the en bloc market, then it is very important to pay careful attention to the lease because the differential premium that the developer has to pay to the government to top up the lease can mean the difference between life and death of the en bloc investor! :scared-4:
It is always safer to buy a FH en bloc because there is only one headache, i.e. the development charge.
FH or LH does not matter that much at the beginning of the condo's life, but matters very much near the end.
If you are playing the en bloc market, then it is very important to pay careful attention to the lease because the differential premium that the developer has to pay to the government to top up the lease can mean the difference between life and death of the en bloc investor! :scared-4:
It is always safer to buy a FH en bloc because there is only one headache, i.e. the development charge.
Amen. That is what I keep telling the bros/sis here too :D New launch LH buy and flip is OK and sound advice, and this is where location, location, location really counts.
I can tell that the really well heeled still do not like FH properties for long term investments. Where I used to live there are two landed developments within the same estate, one is LH and one is FH, the LH landed properties are only 10 years old, less than 500 m from MRT and beautifully designed, I see many up for sale every now and then, but it is still the older 40 year FH houses whose prices is much higher than the LH landed houses, which end up getting bought, torn down and rebuilt.
So there. For short term investing LH is OK but for long term own stay / investment nothing beats FH.
Whether you buy FH or LH depends on the reason for buying the home. If you are looking at it as an investment property, living off it's rental yield and flipping it later, then LH is better. Lower purchase cost.
If you are thinking in terms of giving your children an asset 25 years down the line, FH is the choice.
No children leh hee hee. Prepare to sell off when we retire and move back to our HDB. May sell at a loss, but by then as long as after repaying the bank remaining loans still got cash to hold can laugh le, cannot care for profits le..First time buying property, got burnt on spot with no time to consider, hardselling agents!.. Can't imagine paying $983psf for a 969sft PH unit at surburban/mass market area! Got lectured by so many ppl and we dare not even tell my parents in law. No more money to buy second property le :tsk-tsk:
No children leh hee hee. Prepare to sell off when we retire and move back to our HDB. May sell at a loss, but by then as long as after repaying the bank remaining loans still got cash to hold can laugh le, cannot care for profits le..First time buying property, got burnt on spot with no time to consider, hardselling agents!.. Can't imagine paying $983psf for a 969sft PH unit at surburban/mass market area! Got lectured by so many ppl and we dare not even tell my parents in law. No more money to buy second property le :tsk-tsk:
Which suburb? which mass market project? Your price in today's market certainly does not seem like loss making one.
Whether you buy FH or LH depends on the reason for buying the home. If you are looking at it as an investment property, living off it's rental yield and flipping it later, then LH is better. Lower purchase cost.
If you are thinking in terms of giving your children an asset 25 years down the line, FH is the choice.
In today's market, it does not seem like LH is "lower purchase cost" than FH. :2cents:
In fact, it's higher merely because of location or proximity to amenities. If one finds hard enough, still can find FH with the above factors built in. :cool:
LH will have problem taking high quantum loan as age catches up.
Which suburb? which mass market project? Your price in today's market certainly does not seem like loss making one.
Mine is in D19, Primo residences in jln pelikat road at Kovan area which is in North east... Agents are from huttons, very pushy kind.. A few of them! Ya Price dun seems like loss making within 2 years maybe.. After 2 years prices will go down down down and then stablized according to a friend working in finacial sector...One good example will be that ppl who bot mass market project in 1997 may not even breakeven now. Today's situation is similar to that of 1997... Scary! I hope he is wrong becos he is new to the field.. consoling myself now :(
Mine is in D19, Primo residences in jln pelikat road at Kovan area which is in North east... Agents are from huttons, very pushy kind.. A few of them! Ya Price dun seems like loss making within 2 years maybe.. After 2 years prices will go down down down and then stablized according to a friend working in finacial sector...One good example will be that ppl who bot mass market project in 1997 may not even breakeven now. Today's situation is similar to that of 1997... Scary! I hope he is wrong becos he is new to the field.. consoling myself now :(
The question: "Do you have the holding power?" i.e., Buy within your means.
No children leh hee hee. Prepare to sell off when we retire and move back to our HDB. May sell at a loss, but by then as long as after repaying the bank remaining loans still got cash to hold can laugh le, cannot care for profits le..First time buying property, got burnt on spot with no time to consider, hardselling agents!.. Can't imagine paying $983psf for a 969sft PH unit at surburban/mass market area! Got lectured by so many ppl and we dare not even tell my parents in law. No more money to buy second property le :tsk-tsk:
Anything lower than $1000 psf is considered cheap in another couple of months. :cool:
Mine is in D19, Primo residences in jln pelikat road at Kovan area which is in North east... Agents are from huttons, very pushy kind.. A few of them! Ya Price dun seems like loss making within 2 years maybe.. After 2 years prices will go down down down and then stablized according to a friend working in finacial sector...One good example will be that ppl who bot mass market project in 1997 may not even breakeven now. Today's situation is similar to that of 1997... Scary! I hope he is wrong becos he is new to the field.. consoling myself now :(
If you have been following the rule of propertism, prices will always go up in the long term amidst short term corrections because value of money will be depreciated over time by inflation. So don't worry too much, enjoy your house.
new2mondrian
22-03-10, 19:11
If you have been following the rule of propertism, prices will always go up in the long term amidst short term corrections because value of money will be depreciated over time by inflation. So don't worry too much, enjoy your house.
Gosh.... another jlrx in the making??? :scared-3:
jlrx: you have arrived! fellow forummers are now helping u preach your propertism!
Properties - Location, location, location; THEN tenure, tenure, tenure....
That said, entry price is key cos it determines your exit price. Pay $10k psf for The Sail, will wait for a loong while (IF it does happen) to exit, regardless of its location and your holding power.
Property_Owner
22-03-10, 19:19
Yes, so well located FH would trounce well located LH in the long run,
The Sail is still relatively new, so prices will climb, come back again in 40 years and we will see. There is no FH land in the Marina Bay area to compete with the LH properties there, so of course the LH properties there would appreciate but what about the outlying areas? In my line of work, I can tell you that the resale prices for suburban mass market LH property to say the least, is dismal
40 years later i wouldn't be around to see anymore Bay.
40 years ago I heard of International Plaza. Now I see see look look but prices doesn't go back.
40 years later i wouldn't be around to see anymore Bay.
40 years ago I heard of International Plaza. Now I see see look look but prices doesn't go back.
I always look at the perspective of next generation, that is how I see property, it is never about me. So in 40 years I may, or may not be around but that does not matter, as long as I know the next and future generations of mine are taken care of, I feel I have done my duty in bringing my children into the world.
I may look at setting up a trust fund as suggested by jlrx.
Property_Owner
22-03-10, 22:22
I always look at the perspective of next generation, that is how I see property, it is never about me. So in 40 years I may, or may not be around but that does not matter, as long as I know the next and future generations of mine are taken care of, I feel I have done my duty in bringing my children into the world.
I may look at setting up a trust fund as suggested by jlrx.
Then you better buy all e freehold now. still lots of it under 1000psf. :rolleyes:
To all the ppl in this thread that has been preaching LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION & FREEHOLE FREEHOLE FREEHOLE.. could anyone enlighten this true case study?
In 1980s
My dad has a chance of buying a commercial space of 120sqft for $400,000 somewhere near battery road & cecil street in one of the building, FREEHOLD
Instead, he bought a 300sqf-400sqf in clementi central for around $400,000. LEASEHOLD.
Close to 30 years later in 2008,
the mama shop cum money changer only willing to pay up to $7000 per month for that space in cecil and the transact price hover around $1.2million
Our neighbour in "clementi shop owner committee" change hand at $1.8million for a just slightly bigger unit. And the other lease to a bank for $18,000 per month with a space about 1.5 times ours.
I ask him once why he don't buy shenton and he just answer in hokkien something like price-in-liao. But he say should get bishan, especially when one of our family friend lease to a saloon on a double storey for $28,000 per month.
SO Why huh? location?? What location? What tenure?
Unfortunately my dad passed away last year, 2 weeks before his Great-Grandchild was borned. And so naturally, I inherit this leasehold property.
And any succession or inheritance problem? Nope. Still have more than 60 years of lease to go and the running of lease would certainly outrun my lifespan with 2 is to 1.. hmm.. got to will to my son in a couple of years soon..
My point is since you cannot time the market, just try and identify upside potential. Like one of the good saying by one of chap here.. If you think geylang got potential from a gov transform, then buy wingcourt loh. Win, win big. lose? then rent to po po kuay loh.. hahahah
today "upside potential" is tommorrow people "good location". be the advance party.
If you have been following the rule of propertism, prices will always go up in the long term amidst short term corrections because value of money will be depreciated over time by inflation. So don't worry too much, enjoy your house.
Gosh.... another jlrx in the making??? :scared-3:
jlrx: you have arrived! fellow forummers are now helping u preach your propertism!
I'd initially thought that everyone in this forum would agree with PROPERTISM - the belief that property prices always go up in the long term!
Actually I was quite taken aback by the general response of the people here to PROPERTISM.
My relatives are mostly PROPERTISM believers. Some of them had held on to their family properties for more than 100 years, into the 5th generation now.
So buy freehold landed is the best? Especially those old old bunglows. Can alway tear down and build again, or even build a small condo and sell 99years. :rolleyes:
To all the ppl in this thread that has been preaching LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION & FREEHOLE FREEHOLE FREEHOLE.. could anyone enlighten this true case study?
In 1980s
My dad has a chance of buying a commercial space of 120sqft for $400,000 somewhere near battery road & cecil street in one of the building, FREEHOLD
Instead, he bought a 300sqf-400sqf in clementi central for around $400,000. LEASEHOLD.
Close to 30 years later in 2008,
the mama shop cum money changer only willing to pay up to $7000 per month for that space in cecil and the transact price hover around $1.2million
Our neighbour in "clementi shop owner committee" change hand at $1.8million for a just slightly bigger unit. And the other lease to a bank for $18,000 per month with a space about 1.5 times ours.
I ask him once why he don't buy shenton and he just answer in hokkien something like price-in-liao. But he say should get bishan, especially when one of our family friend lease to a saloon on a double storey for $28,000 per month.
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!!!
That is very valuable information indeed!
Is there anyway to check the transacted price and rental of these HDB shops?
I have been searching for such information HIGH and low and HIGH and low and all the property agents are clueless!
To all the ppl in this thread that has been preaching LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION & FREEHOLE FREEHOLE FREEHOLE.. could anyone enlighten this true case study?
In 1980s
My dad has a chance of buying a commercial space of 120sqft for $400,000 somewhere near battery road & cecil street in one of the building, FREEHOLD
Instead, he bought a 300sqf-400sqf in clementi central for around $400,000. LEASEHOLD.
Close to 30 years later in 2008,
the mama shop cum money changer only willing to pay up to $7000 per month for that space in cecil and the transact price hover around $1.2million
Our neighbour in "clementi shop owner committee" change hand at $1.8million for a just slightly bigger unit. And the other lease to a bank for $18,000 per month with a space about 1.5 times ours.
I ask him once why he don't buy shenton and he just answer in hokkien something like price-in-liao. But he say should get bishan, especially when one of our family friend lease to a saloon on a double storey for $28,000 per month.
SO Why huh? location?? What location? What tenure?
Unfortunately my dad passed away last year, 2 weeks before his Great-Grandchild was borned. And so naturally, I inherit this leasehold property.
And any succession or inheritance problem? Nope. Still have more than 60 years of lease to go and the running of lease would certainly outrun my lifespan with 2 is to 1.. hmm.. got to will to my son in a couple of years soon..
My point is since you cannot time the market, just try and identify upside potential. Like one of the good saying by one of chap here.. If you think geylang got potential from a gov transform, then buy wingcourt loh. Win, win big. lose? then rent to po po kuay loh.. hahahah
today "upside potential" is tommorrow people "good location". be the advance party.
My analysis is on residential property, as commercial properties is a purely bought for yield investment, the LH does not matter. FYI I personally own 99LH commercial property and am on the lookout for higher yield commercial property regardless of lease status. I use such returns from LH properties to fund my FH purchases.
By the way your father's LH properties would probably not go past your son and your grandchildren may not enjoy it fully. I am looking at my descendants.
My analysis is on residential property, as commercial properties is a purely bought for yield investment, the LH does not matter. FYI I personally own 99LH commercial property and am on the lookout for higher yield commercial property regardless of lease status. I use such returns from LH properties to fund my FH purchases.
By the way your father's LH properties would probably not go past your son and your grandchildren may not enjoy it fully. I am looking at my descendants.
My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
Good post. That is why I say location AND FH status is a much better formula than location, location, location alone. Those of us who inherit old money (property) would actually experience and know this.
Property_Owner
23-03-10, 09:55
To all the ppl in this thread that has been preaching LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION & FREEHOLE FREEHOLE FREEHOLE.. could anyone enlighten this true case study?
In 1980s
My dad has a chance of buying a commercial spa....................
Your father was not wrong. It's depends on what you want to run.
Residential, commercial, industrial have their own location. F&B (ihmo) is the most critical when selecting location.
**Pls note, when selecting location for the above, you have to consider many factors....let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...
There are just so many factors when I decide to target a location for F&B.
If you want to venture in Aviation industry, you should know where to buy now. :)
There will be lots of opinion, advice, considerations etc from many.
If so good then there will be no poor people here....
Ultimately one has to make his own decision.
:sleep:
let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...
Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops! :cheers1:
How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?
It's not in the URA or HDB databases! :(
Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops! :cheers1:
How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?
It's not in the URA or HDB databases! :(
Go to SLA and pay $10+ for the strata title deeds
Go to SLA and pay $10+ for the strata title deeds
Is that the same as the title deed?
I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property. :confused:
Is that the same as the title deed?
I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property. :confused:
I don't remember the exact form you need..
but i remember going down to pay $$ and get a document that shows the last transacted price for a particular shophouse. It's per shophouse.. so you need to know the shophouse number for them to get the deed.
Property_Owner
24-03-10, 00:04
Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops! :cheers1:
How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?
It's not in the URA or HDB databases! :(
Previous transaction not an main issue. So could be selling @ loss. If the location good then it worth to buy and invest in. Don't be surprise if I know the owners well. Mainly trade within the circles.
Prices are not determined by valuation. It's just between both parties but negotiation is done by 3rd party(agent).
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!!!
That is very valuable information indeed!
Is there anyway to check the transacted price and rental of these HDB shops?
I have been searching for such information HIGH and low and HIGH and low and all the property agents are clueless!
1. Your agents are residential property agent and know shit about commercial/industrial properties.
2. Buy information from respective boards. It won't give you the past transaction figure but give you past owners details and charge lodge which is the same as what you want.
3. Rental could be find out from "stamp" board.
My analysis is on residential property, as commercial properties is a purely bought for yield investment, the LH does not matter.
FYI I personally own 99LH commercial property and am on the lookout for higher yield commercial property regardless of lease status. I use such returns from LH properties to fund my FH purchases.
By the way your father's LH properties would probably not go past your son and your grandchildren may not enjoy it fully. I am looking at my descendants.
1. Commercial and not to compare with residential? Fair enough. But however, there are cases though less frequent that a LH poorer location could win a better FH location.
2. Individual way of handling things, no comment.
3. Since when my grandchild need to enjoy it? (Maybe she also don't want) The intrinsic value maybe zero upon expire of lease but the harvest value in between could be so great that could beat down another FH or like what you said, fund another FH.
Or simply do a gear up with a 1% to 2% interest and put into some STI defensive that could easliy yield dividend of 4%-8% per annum. In a more simpler term, I coin it as "disposable asset" or a business tool, thats all. You all really poison by, was it "propertism"?
In any case I ask my 9 months old grandchild she wan ar not, she said "ga ga" then some saliva flow out.. I suppose she dont wan..
My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
Any property that raise to even 500 times will remain the original capital outlay until it been capitalise, till then, it is still remain as "it is" on book unless you mortgage on it which will then move to another field where you assume liability with interest.
Rental is a recurring revenue which transform the property to a business tool without appreciating the true value.
My point is, old money will remain as old money until it get transform to new money for some good use and soon, your descendant will percieve your new money as their old money. Doing nothing is always nothing.
Good post. That is why I say location AND FH status is a much better formula than location, location, location alone. Those of us who inherit old money (property) would actually experience and know this.
I inherit almost an entire building in one of the lorong of Geylang. Actually I still don't know what to do with this "old money (property)" of yours. I no experience, how?
Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?
Your father was not wrong. It's depends on what you want to run.
Residential, commercial, industrial have their own location. F&B (ihmo) is the most critical when selecting location.
**Pls note, when selecting location for the above, you have to consider many factors....let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...
There are just so many factors when I decide to target a location for F&B.
If you want to venture in Aviation industry, you should know where to buy now. :)
My father was NEVER wrong. The only thing he did wrongly was kick the bucket 2 weeks before his great-grandchild was borned. hahhahahah...
I agree with the rest of your comments just that I'm applying similar principle to residential properties as well. Thats why I don't really agree with your earlier post of "Location, Location, Location.."
Is that the same as the title deed?
I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property. :confused:
It not really title deed, it stated the ownership history with caveats.
I inherit almost an entire building in one of the lorong of Geylang. Actually I still don't know what to do with this "old money (property)"
Wow ... you're rich loh! :cheers1:
You can redevelop into office and collect rental!
I've an uncle who inherited an old building sitting on more than 100,000 sq ft of freehold land, which he maximised the plot ratio by redeveloping into almost 400,000 sq ft of office space (ownself do en bloc).
It's a suburban area, like yours, so assuming office rental of $3 psf per month ... :scared-4:
Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?
Both and .
Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?
Both and for .
Wow ... you're rich loh! :cheers1:
You can redevelop into office and collect rental!
I've an uncle who inherited an old building sitting on more than 100,000 sq ft of freehold land, which he maximised the plot ratio by redeveloping into almost 400,000 sq ft of office space (ownself do en bloc).
It's a suburban area, like yours, so assuming office rental of $3 psf per month ... :scared-4:
It is good only if there is a demand for rental especially during economic downturn and competition from garment related agencies giving competitive rental rates. You probably have to engage a managing agent to do the adminstrative work and even chasing after the rent. Otherwise, there will be bad debt. You can increase your cash flow by selling a few floors and keep the rest for rental.
Property_Owner
24-03-10, 09:40
My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
Why you bought Southbank?
Why you bought Southbank?
For location, height and view at reasonable price then!
It is good only if there is a demand for rental especially during economic downturn and competition from garment related agencies giving competitive rental rates. You probably have to engage a managing agent to do the adminstrative work and even chasing after the rent. Otherwise, there will be bad debt. You can increase your cash flow by selling a few floors and keep the rest for rental.
The irony (or power?) of PROPERTISM is that the rental he receive in one month is more than the original cost of the entire piece of land. :scared-5:
Keeping the entire land within the family has the advantage that in future my cousins can sell it to condo developers or redevelop it themselves. :spliff:
Actually redeveloping into condo is another option apple3 can consider. Even if the land is zoned as "business", it can still be developed into SOHO home office (like SOHO @ Central). They're effectively residential apartments but able to register as offices as well.
The irony (or power?) of PROPERTISM is that the rental he receive in one month is more than the original cost of the entire piece of land. :scared-5:
Keeping the entire land within the family has the advantage that in future my cousins can sell it to condo developers or redevelop it themselves. :spliff:
Actually redeveloping into condo is another option apple3 can consider. Even if the land is zoned as "business", it can still be developed into SOHO home office (like SOHO @ Central). They're effectively residential apartments but able to register as offices as well.
hahahhahahah... how I wish..
1. Important: The street is lorong "even" number
2. Important: Plot ratio 2.8 has been fully utilise to allowable GFA
3. Due to the location, the archi, pe, qp, survey & bp are going to hit me hard
4. construction cost and plimin come harder
5. If all these still don't hurt me, the dp and dc will kill me
Dont know about the future, but definitely not now with all the clans and temples around it. paying the unappreciate annual value propt tax seems a better alternative.
Dont know about the future, but definitely not now with all the clans and temples around it. paying the unappreciate annual value propt tax seems a better alternative.
In any case I ask my 9 months old grandchild she wan ar not, she said "ga ga" then some saliva flow out.. I suppose she dont wan..
From your two posts above, I know what your granddaughter is trying to say ...
What she means is that: once those clans and temples are gone in the future, and Geylang is cleaned up, she is going to be as rich as Lady Gaga! :scared-4:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Gagafameball.jpg/160px-Gagafameball.jpg
From your two posts above, I know what your granddaughter is trying to say ...
What she means is that: once those clans and temples are gone in the future, and Geylang is cleaned up, she is going to be as rich as Lady Gaga! :scared-4:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Gagafameball.jpg/160px-Gagafameball.jpg
hahhahah... ya, sure.
and thinking of it make her saliva drooling..
hahhahah... ya, sure.
and thinking of it make her saliva drooling..
Beside passing her your wealth and asset, remember to train her to play the piano when she is 4 (just like Lady Gaga) so that she can be as good as Lady Gaga when she grows up. :D
Bad Romance
Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
Performed by: Lady Gaga
MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I&feature=channel
Poke Face
Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
Performed by: Lady Gaga
MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGLojNYSo&feature=channel
Just kidding though. Have a funny Sunday night! :jump-for-joy:
Just wondering, is there anymore new freehold or 999 land anywhere left in Singapore?:beats-me-man: Seems like all the new land releases by the govt are 99 years only.
Beside passing her your wealth and asset, remember to train her to play the piano when she is 4 (just like Lady Gaga) so that she can be as good as Lady Gaga when she grows up. :D
Bad Romance
Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
Performed by: Lady Gaga
MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I&feature=channel
Poke Face
Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
Performed by: Lady Gaga
MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGLojNYSo&feature=channel
Just kidding though. Have a funny Sunday night! :jump-for-joy:
Nope. Educate her is the role of my son & daughter-in-law not mine. But I would always suggest a free hand without imposing anything for her.
My job is to pamper and spoilt her. For my wife is bathing and diaper changing. But we don't mind extending financial support for her upbringing though. Like those "daylight robbery" 2k per mth dou dou class. Btw, is there any nursery in kind listed company in Singapore?
Just wondering, is there anymore new freehold or 999 land anywhere left in Singapore?:beats-me-man: Seems like all the new land releases by the govt are 99 years only.
Lee Kuan Yew said: "No one should own a piece of land eternity" and since then, government sale land no longer freehold, only 99. (This took place in the fifties or earlier sixties)
As for 999, the deed occur since straits settlement.
"No one should own a piece of land eternity" comes from the chinese saying "生人霸死地" and has its origins in feudal times where indentured peasants toil their whole lives in servitude to landlords.
new2mondrian
29-03-10, 19:31
Like those "daylight robbery" 2k per mth dou dou class. Btw, is there any nursery in kind listed company in Singapore?
depending on how old she is, there are tonnes of infant "enrichment" classes these days, ranging from Shichida to Gymboree to Kindermusik to GUG and what not.... :)
Oh yes, don't forget to secure a place for her in the top kindergarten/childcare.... The good ones (eg Nanyang Kindergarten, Maris Stella, St James) have waiting list that stretch all the way to the womb!
Don't know of any Nursery in Kind listed Co though..... might be risky business.... remember ABC Learning in Aust?
"No one should own a piece of land eternity" comes from the chinese saying "生人霸死地" and has its origins in feudal times where indentured peasants toil their whole lives in servitude to landlords.
Well said. But isn't it ironic that years later after china cultural revolution, the landlords role simply shift from individual to party? Ma chiam single landed property transform to collectively ownership. hahahhaha
depending on how old she is, there are tonnes of infant "enrichment" classes these days, ranging from Shichida to Gymboree to Kindermusik to GUG and what not.... :)
Oh yes, don't forget to secure a place for her in the top kindergarten/childcare.... The good ones (eg Nanyang Kindergarten, Maris Stella, St James) have waiting list that stretch all the way to the womb!
Don't know of any Nursery in Kind listed Co though..... might be risky business.... remember ABC Learning in Aust?
Huh? what are you talking about? Japanese or Italianoooo...
We are singaporean leh.. u know?
No more PA or PAP kindergarden?
What is this nanyang kindergarden? Super Education Train?
Nanyang Kindergarden > Nanyang Primary > Nanyang Secondary > Nanyang Junior College > Nanyang Technological University? :scared-4:
Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?
Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?
No more than 20%
rattydrama
16-07-10, 15:42
Geylang not too far from Marina Bay with plenty of freehold condos there. Geylang will shoot up to $1500psf the moment the govt cleans up the red light and transform the area into a condo hub
like that all chickens go where to hang their red lantern? anyone owning a ppty there must quickly sell. :tongue3:
Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?
Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.
If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.
As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.
It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
I believe your hypothesis is wrong. As I mentioned before, if you want to flip (quickly sell to others to hold the babies), LH99 doesn't matter as long as in good location (that is precisely what the Malaysia govt wants! They are not going to hold the land and do nothing!). They want to sell at good price quickly! Obviously in the same location, FH is better but there is a premium to pay (and this premium is sort of subjective, but widens as the property ages and leases run-down). However, regardless of FH or 99LH, location is the utmost important factor! Location, LOCation, LOCATION!!!
It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
<- Don't learn the wrong thing hor (like keep 99LH property for 99 years! Ops!).
Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.
If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.
As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.
It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
If everything being equal, ie. location, etc, prospective buyers would prefer FH landed properties than LH ones.
I believe your hypothesis is wrong. As I mentioned before, if you want to flip (quickly sell to others to hold the babies), LH99 doesn't matter as long as in good location (that is precisely what the Malaysia govt wants! They are not going to hold the land and do nothing!). They want to sell at good price quickly! Obviously in the same location, FH is better but there is a premium to pay (and this premium is sort of subjective, but widens as the property ages and leases run-down). However, regardless of FH or 99LH, location is the utmost important factor! Location, LOCation, LOCATION!!!
It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
<- Don't learn the wrong thing hor (like keep 99LH property for 99 years! Ops!).
Old thread, go dig if u like
Just to refresh.
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My+Money/Property/Story/A1Story20091125-182275.html
http://www.cks.com.sg/news%20new/trendbitesmar04d.htm
20% to 25% stated as price difference between LH and FH at a comparable location.
Something new
http://property.st701.com/articles/view/5905?title=99-Year-vs-Freehold
I guess this is as clear as I can make it be
"Between choosing a FH (not near MRT) and LH (Near MRT) CONDO. I will go for the LH (near MRT) condo anytime."
If you have a FH and near MRT, that could be the best choice assuming price is reasonable.
Very clear cut FH cases... FH landed.
I avoid MM units and shorties.
I remember there used to be some discussion about LH vs FH. Where are all those nuts again?
Wild Falcon
24-09-10, 21:10
Please check facts. Malaysia land swap is a bad example. Based on the 1981 railway lease agreement, those plots of land were leased by Singapore to Malaysia KTM for 999 years (not freehold) and can only be used for ONE PURPOSE - railway services. This has been clarified. This is because the Malaysians were pretty upset about the swap - most think it was a bad deal until they found out the KTM land can only be used for railway. Now that they know the swap is from useless railway land to COMMERCIAL land (albeit 99LH and reclaimed), of course they will swap. Anyone will do that. It has nothing to do with leasehold/freehold is superior etc.
Trust me. If those 999LH land across the spine of Singapore can be used for commercial and residential, the Malaysian government will NEVER have swapped. But Singapore govenment NEVER put that on the table to begin with.
Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.
If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.
As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.
It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
Please check facts. Malaysia land swap is a bad example. Based on the 1981 railway lease agreement, those plots of land were leased by Singapore to Malaysia KTM for 999 years (not freehold) and can only be used for ONE PURPOSE - railway services. This has been clarified. This is because the Malaysians were pretty upset about the swap - most think it was a bad deal until they found out the KTM land can only be used for railway. Now that they know the swap is from useless railway land to COMMERCIAL land (albeit 99LH and reclaimed), of course they will swap. Anyone will do that. It has nothing to do with leasehold/freehold is superior etc.
Trust me. If those 999LH land across the spine of Singapore can be used for commercial and residential, the Malaysian government will NEVER have swapped. But Singapore govenment NEVER put that on the table to begin with.
That not withstanding, they could have tried to bargain for it right? At least at equivalent 999 years right? Since tenure is so important to some. FH is possible if Government has to grant it. Of course there are other considerations and trade offs that are within closed doors.
Condorich has stated positive views regarding FH albeit in a qualified way. Those old FH apartments are really hoping for enblock and when DC charges are high, their chances are slimmer. But you have Good info there.
If everything being equal, ie. location, etc, prospective buyers would prefer FH landed properties than LH ones.
if you hv 2 bride/bridegroom candidates, one is young 20s and other mid 40s who would you choose
:doh:
abv answer is to a general question you posed
now down to details...
Geylang OKT
25-09-10, 09:39
if you hv 2 bride/bridegroom candidates, one is young 20s and other mid 40s who would you choose
:doh:
abv answer is to a general question you posed
now down to details...
If I am the bride, I would prefer the richer candidate! Hahahah :D
If I am the bridegroom, I would prefer the one with the bigger titties. :D
Wild Falcon
25-09-10, 12:20
Trust me, to swap for railway land for commercial land is very good deal already lah. What makes you think they never bargain? We just say "no" lah. Either u maintain your 999 year lease but can only use for railway or swap for 99 yr lease in Marina lah. Then Malaysia come back and say "I want best of everything 999 yr lease for COMMERCIAL land in Marina" and then we will say "go fly kite lah". In every negotiation, must give and take u know.
That not withstanding, they could have tried to bargain for it right? At least at equivalent 999 years right? Since tenure is so important to some. FH is possible if Government has to grant it. Of course there are other considerations and trade offs that are within closed doors.
Condorich has stated positive views regarding FH albeit in a qualified way. Those old FH apartments are really hoping for enblock and when DC charges are high, their chances are slimmer. But you have Good info there.
Wild Falcon
25-09-10, 12:30
The main reason why 99LH land value maintains is becos our government wants it to. Look at the amount of misrepresentation in classifieds. Bayshore Park advertised as 99 yr lease when in reality is should be 60 year lease? And yet, the agents can go off scot free with such blatent misrepresentation.
Theoretically, a 99 LH with 50 years left land value will be halved. Even in an enbloc, the developer will have to top up 50 years based on prevailing market value of the land and whatever proceeds left for the owners might be actually lower than the market price. That's why the Bayshore and the Mandarin Gardens are so desperate to enbloc - because time is not on their side. Even year spent means another year of lease top-up to pay and sacrifice. Imagine there is only 10 years lease left - your 10 years advance rental payment will be worth just that - 10 year advance payment. a 99 year lease merely means you make advance payment of 99 years upfront and it starts amortising.
But for a brand new 99LH, probably makes no difference. But in reality, most governments rather "hide" the reality because there're so many 99LH condos out there - no one dares to disrupt the market with reality. That's why u will continue to see agents selling Bayshore Park to prospective buyers as "99 year lease" - the most blatant lie and yet govt prefer to keep it that way.
I remember there used to be some discussion about LH vs FH. Where are all those nuts again?
devilplate
25-09-10, 12:45
so y bayshore park still so ex?
there is one reason why FH may be better than LH apartments..
that is for own stay AND space is of utmost importance.
Think about it ...
If I have a budget of $800K and I need alot of space (more than 1000sf), new developments are out of the question, cos the usable space is really 70% of the quoted area (after excluding the bomb shelter, bay windows, huge balcony, window ledge, private lobby, backyard, planters etc)
Thus I will go for an apartment more than 15 yrs old, if I go for LH properties, then 30 years down the road, (assuming no enbloc has occured) when I am about to retire and I would like to monetise my assets, my apt will only have 54 years lease left.
How to sell like that?
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