View Full Version : How many weeks option will you grant as a seller?
Property_Owner
10-04-10, 19:36
I'm damn surprised today when an agent told me her buyer wanted a 6 weeks option.
I'm damn surprised today when an agent told me her buyer wanted a 6 weeks option.
Well, I had ever asked for 12 weeks option and got it - that's because I am renting the place at the same time during the period before I decide to buy it or not plus concurrently trying to get rid of my unit.
new2mondrian
10-04-10, 21:15
normally is between 8-10 weeks. 6 weeks? wow.... buyer's lawyers must be darned efficient.
condoinvestor
10-04-10, 21:27
Standard options are 2 weeks, flippers tend to ask for slightly longer so they have more time to flip I guess........
Property_Owner
10-04-10, 21:56
normally is between 8-10 weeks. 6 weeks? wow.... buyer's lawyers must be darned efficient.
I mean option.
Property_Owner
10-04-10, 22:01
Well, I had ever asked for 12 weeks option and got it - that's because I am renting the place at the same time during the period before I decide to buy it or not plus concurrently trying to get rid of my unit.
Option? 12 weeks?
Option? 12 weeks?
Normal is 2 weeks. Maybe buyer need more time to accumulate enough money for the 4% payment.
Option? 12 weeks?
Yes I can read. Not like some others. I meant option from the beginning.
completed resale or yet to TOP? if it's yet to TOP, maybe your buyer is trying to flip.
completed resale or yet to TOP? if it's yet to TOP, maybe your buyer is trying to flip.
You will know if the seller sign by putting nominee on option to purhcase form.
I'm damn surprised today when an agent told me her buyer wanted a 6 weeks option.
cos your buyer want to flip :D
14 days standard and its not your buyer want 6 weeks, its your flipper.
Flip flip. No market for flippers now unless ur price is 5% or more below current market price.
6 weeks can have 4 weeks of free play. He tries to sell within a day or within 4 weeks and then will exercise when his buyer exercised. Playing property owner when he is not owning anything. It's like a blank cheque.
Want to get rid of this? Set the option price high high lor. 6 months option also can when it is set at 200% more (kidding).
normally is between 8-10 weeks. 6 weeks? wow.... buyer's lawyers must be darned efficient.
you mix up option exercise period and S&P period.
14 days is the norm for option while 8 weeks for S&P period.
The fastest case I came across was 1 week completion. 2 + 1 but option exercise on the 1st day so only 1 week for S&P. And both side not using or under any loan liablity/cpf obligation, 100% cash to cash purchase. 1 side was a lawyer by professional.
That guy seems want to flip for asking 6 weeks. Remind me of marco polo ardmore launch at lane crawford. Where option without barring tranferee make itself a commodity to sell. So buyer can chose to buy the 40 queue from agent which had camped part-timers 3 days ago OR the option.
Flip option - I done it before. But it's very stressful.
Today one can still do it provided you find something that's like fire sale and you darn sure you can sell it off at market or higher price within the limited time.
Flip option - I done it before. But it's very stressful.
Today one can still do it provided you find something that's like fire sale and you darn sure you can sell it off at market or higher price within the limited time.
But today has seller's stamp duty. May not gain much.
But today has seller's stamp duty. May not gain much.
For that, the answer is really "it depends".
Some owners may be desperate for cash and willing to let go at 10% or more below market price due to emergencies or whatever, you could still gain 5% or more if you have holding power.
Property_Owner
11-04-10, 20:48
But today has seller's stamp duty. May not gain much.
Flip option must pay SSD mah?
Property_Owner
11-04-10, 20:49
Yes I can read. Not like some others. I meant option from the beginning.
12 weeks option....wow. Longest I heard in my life
Property_Owner
11-04-10, 20:52
The fastest case I came across was 1 week completion. 2 + 1 but option exercise on the 1st day so only 1 week for S&P. And both side not using or under any loan liablity/cpf obligation, 100% cash to cash purchase. 1 side was a lawyer by professional.
Wow, shortest I heard in my life:doh:
learn something new again.
Flip option must pay SSD mah?
If I'm not wrong, legally you did not exercise it thus no need to pay any stamp duties.
new2mondrian
12-04-10, 15:26
I mean option.
oops... sorry never read properly. 2 weeks.
6 weeks option is very long, unless the offer is too irresistible....
If I'm not wrong, legally you did not exercise it thus no need to pay any stamp duties.
mcmlxxvi is right. As long when caveat not lodge, there is no obligation for stamp duty.
All flippers please take note here, just a gentle reminder;
if the following clause or something similar stating transferee is stated in OTP, you cannot transfer/flip the option. my colleague went into some legal entangle for releasing the loan.
The Option to Purchase is deem as private and personal to the buyer. The buyer is not allowed to convey, assign or transfer the Option to Purchase that has been granted to him/her by the seller or vendor to any other persons.
mcmlxxvi is right. As long when caveat not lodge, there is no obligation for stamp duty.
All flippers please take note here, just a gentle reminder;
if the following clause or something similar stating transferee is stated in OTP, you cannot transfer/flip the option. my colleague went into some legal entangle for releasing the loan.
The Option to Purchase is deem as private and personal to the buyer. The buyer is not allowed to convey, assign or transfer the Option to Purchase that has been granted to him/her by the seller or vendor to any other persons.
AND OR NOMINEE are the magic words that allows transfer.
Regulators
12-04-10, 19:04
never done flip optn b4, learn smethng new here
Property_Owner
12-04-10, 20:21
Flip option - I done it before. But it's very stressful.
Today one can still do it provided you find something that's like fire sale and you darn sure you can sell it off at market or higher price within the limited time.
What is so stressful?
What is so stressful?
Stressful becoz u never intended to swallow the unit. If cant sell will be forfeiting the option money.
Stressful becoz u never intended to swallow the unit. If cant sell will be forfeiting the option money.
I would make the attempt to flip to but with a view to eat it if no buyers found. ;)
Anyone seen the "option to purchase" as "offer to purchase?"
Anyone interested or had compared the different options to purchase issued by well know agencies?
I would make the attempt to flip to but with a view to eat it if no buyers found. ;)
Anyone seen the "option to purchase" as "offer to purchase?"
Anyone interested or had compared the different options to purchase issued by well know agencies?
Offer to purchase is a an offer by the buyer to the seller to purchase the property at a certain price & gives the owner a dateline to accept the offer usually within a few days.A cheque for 1% of the offer price will be attached to the offer. This is to ensure that the owner makes up his mind & not dilly dally & use it to raise the bar a few notches to get a better price.If the seller accepts the offer then he issues an Option to purchase commonly known as OTP to the buyer & banks in the cheque. If the seller does not accept the offer to purchase then he returns the offer to purchase & the cheque to the buyer.
Offer to purchase is a an offer by the buyer to the seller to purchase the property at a certain price & gives the owner a dateline to accept the offer usually within a few days.A cheque for 1% of the offer price will be attached to the offer. This is to ensure that the owner makes up his mind & not dilly dally & use it to raise the bar a few notches to get a better price.If the seller accepts the offer then he issues an Option to purchase commonly known as OTP to the buyer & banks in the cheque. If the seller does not accept the offer to purchase then he returns the offer to purchase & the cheque to the buyer.
Thanks, good advice.
Are you or anyone else willing to share the pitfalls to watch in that doc? Both legally and common sense in common general language for sharing and learning purposes.
Why don't the agents prepare the option to purchase for owner to issue instead of giving them the offer to purchase for them to issue the option to purchase themselves or through agency later on? Agency do issue OTP directly with their company name as I have seen them. Any comments?
Thanks, good advice.
Are you or anyone else willing to share the pitfalls to watch in that doc? Both legally and common sense in common general language for sharing and learning purposes.
Why don't the agents prepare the option to purchase for owner to issue instead of giving them the offer to purchase for them to issue the option to purchase themselves or through agency later on? Agency do issue OTP directly with their company name as I have seen them. Any comments?
Generally;
1. Offer to Purchase are prepare by agent on behalf of Buyer to attach 1% and confirm on requested 2 + ? weeks.
2. Option to Purchase are prepare by agent on behalf of Seller should he accept the 1% and confirm on transaction period.
3. Bank LO, CPF approval, Legal, etc to kick off next.
AND OR NOMINEE are the magic words that allows transfer.
I miss this out. Thank to mcmlxxvi. AND OR NOMINEE are the magic words that allows transfer. You don't see this in developer sale, for owner transact it depend.
Is it possible to do without the agent? The owner finds the buyer and get the lawyer to issue the Option to purhase and S&P document.
Is it possible to do without the agent? The owner finds the buyer and get the lawyer to issue the Option to purhase and S&P document.
Although I haven't done it , its possible to have your lawyers prepare the OTP & issue it to the buyer. There will be some charges involved but its only a fraction of the commission to agent. For existing properties there's no S&P .
Although I haven't done it , its possible to have your lawyers prepare the OTP & issue it to the buyer. There will be some charges involved but its only a fraction of the commission to agent. For existing properties there's no S&P .
Thanks! So! It is possible.
Thanks! So! It is possible.
Suggested using that method earlier to take the rouge agent out of the equation. Burn in HELL!!!
Buying needs expertise in choosing the right ones.
Selling needs expertise in setting the right price.
Smart investors know or would have made a good bet at choosing the right time to sell or the Best time to sell if they can really predict the future.
Suggested using that method earlier to take the rouge agent out of the equation. Burn in HELL!!!
Buying needs expertise in choosing the right ones.
Selling needs expertise in setting the right price.
Smart investors know or would have made a good bet at choosing the right time to sell or the Best time to sell if they can really predict the future.
Not a bet idea. We can form our own internal buying/selling network using the PM message in this blog and give each other referral fees. It make sense if one has a few properties to sell or to buy more. It is not just about the savings but some non-professional agent.
Is it possible to do without the agent? The owner finds the buyer and get the lawyer to issue the Option to purhase and S&P document.
Of course. It common. Yesterday 1 lo just went out to a guy that stay in gf condo in bayshore area, got her gf pregnant, getting marry, AND BOUGHT THE EXISTING UNIT from father-in-law. lol..
Although I haven't done it , its possible to have your lawyers prepare the OTP & issue it to the buyer. There will be some charges involved but its only a fraction of the commission to agent. For existing properties there's no S&P .
What do you mean no S&P for existing properties?
S&P = Sale & Purchase Agreement. Unless by way of gift, transfer, inheritance succession act ch154a or non-transactional mode, else there will be S&P for all transactional matters including buying a car.
What do you mean no S&P for existing properties?
S&P = Sale & Purchase Agreement. Unless by way of gift, transfer, inheritance succession act ch154a or non-transactional mode, else there will be S&P for all transactional matters including buying a car.
There's no S&P like for new property. Lawyers will use the exercised OTP as the primary document between the exercised date & the completion of sale date. On the completion date the property title will be transferred to you. All these legal processes will be done by the lawyers for the buyer & seller.
When buying existing property it only involves the transfer of title & your lawyer will handle all these including ensuring that all loans are paid & money returned to CPF etc.
You obviously have not purchased any existing property.
Is it possible to do without the agent? The owner finds the buyer and get the lawyer to issue the Option to purhase and S&P document.
I recently did a transaction on my own without agent. Can get blank template OTP with standard clauses. It is an agreement between buyer and seller and hence not necessary to use form from an agency. Also don't need to get lawyers to act for you to issue or exercise the OTP. Seller can easily get bank indication on the value of their property for negotiation with buyer on price. The process for self-service is easy...
I recently did a transaction on my own without agent. Can get blank template OTP with standard clauses. It is an agreement between buyer and seller and hence not necessary to use form from an agency. Also don't need to get lawyers to act for you to issue or exercise the OTP. Seller can easily get bank indication on the value of their property for negotiation with buyer on price. The process for self-service is easy...
I disagree on the part about exercising the option. Yes you can use a standard type of OTP but you forgot that when the OTP is exercised the buyer has to pay 4% of the sale price. This money must be held by your lawyers as stakeholder for you & release to you only on completion.There's a good reason for this. It's to ensure that your creditors will be paid first otherwise if you spend the money & your creditors cannot be paid the sale will not go through. Then the buyer will take you to court to recover the money & worst if the market goes higher they will try to recover costs for lost opportunity .
So please do not go around telling people that the process for self - service is simple. Buying an existing property has its risk so you need to make sure that your lawyer acts diligently on your purchase. That's why the time between exercising the OTP & completion is usually 8-10 weeks. Its to ensure that everything is in order before the sale can go through.Btw I am not a lawyer but I have bought & sold existing properties a few times over the years.
I disagree on the part about exercising the option. Yes you can use a standard type of OTP but you forgot that when the OTP is exercised the buyer has to pay 4% of the sale price. This money must be held by your lawyers as stakeholder for you & release to you only on completion.There's a good reason for this. It's to ensure that your creditors will be paid first otherwise if you spend the money & your creditors cannot be paid the sale will not go through. Then the buyer will take you to court to recover the money & worst if the market goes higher they will try to recover costs for lost opportunity .
So please do not go around telling people that the process for self - service is simple. Buying an existing property has its risk so you need to make sure that your lawyer acts diligently on your purchase. That's why the time between exercising the OTP & completion is usually 8-10 weeks. Its to ensure that everything is in order before the sale can go through.Btw I am not a lawyer but I have bought & sold existing properties a few times over the years.
Can we just engage the lawyer even at this early stage as it will be legally binding on both parties?
Self service is simple for the legally trained, as there are pitfalls to look out for. Best avoided if novice.
Anyway the next best alternate is to self serve through a TRUSTED lawyer.. That is a better option.
Lastly, buying and selling is a serious matter. Don't take it too light heartedly. The case may end up in court. Do it only if you are SKILLED enough in law at a level of at least a para legal or above. Otherwise, pay a little money and get your service.
When i say the S&P paper work process is easy, i meant vs agents doing it for a fee. Of course your good (& important) friends in this process are your appointed lawyers and bankers...anyway just sharing my first hand experience in this. Self service is NOT recommended if you are buying and selling for the first time and if you need agents to source for leads and seal the deal.
Yes Greenhorn, was helping you to reply to jsh above. I agree with you on this.
When i say the S&P paper work process is easy, i meant vs agents doing it for a fee. Of course your good (& important) friends in this process are your appointed lawyers and bankers...anyway just sharing my first hand experience in this. Self service is NOT recommended if you are buying and selling for the first time and if you need agents to source for leads and seal the deal.
It is a fair statement.
There's no S&P like for new property. Lawyers will use the exercised OTP as the primary document between the exercised date & the completion of sale date. On the completion date the property title will be transferred to you. All these legal processes will be done by the lawyers for the buyer & seller.
When buying existing property it only involves the transfer of title & your lawyer will handle all these including ensuring that all loans are paid & money returned to CPF etc.
You obviously have not purchased any existing property.
You are quick to label people, aren't you?
So I'm pretty green on this, care to enlighten me what are these terms call "existing property" & "new property" and what exactly it refering to? Sub-sale yet to TOP, from developer or wherever fxxk it maybe?
The way you describe seems that all kinds of property transaction don't need S&P. Huh? When you buy new from developer, where is the payment schedule, deadline, commitment and liability stated on? What? Use marker write on that fanciful brochure? Thats the S&P document lah!
And its true that some lawyers did used OTP, coupled with conveyancing covers that comply with standard to convey the transact. Then in this case, the entire articulation form part of S&P documentation.
And IRONICALLY, I said S&P period, listen carefully, S&P PERIOD, which generally refering to the 8 weeks after exercising OTP. Thats my initial posting, refering to the length of time toward handling of key NOT documentation or any form or articulation OR that S&P AGREEMENT you are talking about. Don't believe go back and check.
I disagree on the part about exercising the option. Yes you can use a standard type of OTP but you forgot that when the OTP is exercised the buyer has to pay 4% of the sale price. This money must be held by your lawyers as stakeholder for you & release to you only on completion.There's a good reason for this. It's to ensure that your creditors will be paid first otherwise if you spend the money & your creditors cannot be paid the sale will not go through. Then the buyer will take you to court to recover the money & worst if the market goes higher they will try to recover costs for lost opportunity .
So please do not go around telling people that the process for self - service is simple. Buying an existing property has its risk so you need to make sure that your lawyer acts diligently on your purchase. That's why the time between exercising the OTP & completion is usually 8-10 weeks. Its to ensure that everything is in order before the sale can go through.Btw I am not a lawyer but I have bought & sold existing properties a few times over the years.
I may be wrong but it always seem to me that those like to boast how well-oiled they are usually lack of confidence on what they said and thus, need to bring out story to convince themselve as well as others.
Self service is simple for the legally trained, as there are pitfalls to look out for. Best avoided if novice.
Anyway the next best alternate is to self serve through a TRUSTED lawyer.. That is a better option.
Lastly, buying and selling is a serious matter. Don't take it too light heartedly. The case may end up in court. Do it only if you are SKILLED enough in law at a level of at least a para legal or above. Otherwise, pay a little money and get your service.
I sort of agree with this. The agent portion could be redundant or unnecessary and you only need a conveyancing lawyer. However, the Internet did make self-service more possible though.
There are 5 boards which the lawyer will clear and 8 if he is acting for the bank as well. These queries are now available via Internet. But however, the mortagee or chargee may demand liasing with a legal professional and also, till now, I cannot confirm can a buyer which did not admit to bar be caveator to lodge to sla. Maybe someone can confirm on this.
I sort of agree with this. The agent portion could be redundant or unnecessary and you only need a conveyancing lawyer. However, the Internet did make self-service more possible though.
There are 5 boards which the lawyer will clear and 8 if he is acting for the bank as well. These queries are now available via Internet. But however, the mortagee or chargee may demand liasing with a legal professional and also, till now, I cannot confirm can a buyer which did not admit to bar be caveator to lodge to sla. Maybe someone can confirm on this.
Read this form details
http://www.sla.gov.sg/doc/new/PC_2_of_2007.pdf go to Annex A, it says applicant in person or his representative. So that is your answer.
Interestingly.. all these are contained in the Land Titles ACT
PART XII
CAVEATS
Caveats may be lodged
115. —(1) Any person claiming an interest in land (whether or not the land has been brought under the provisions of this Act), or any person otherwise authorised by this Act or any other written law to do so, may lodge with the Registrar a caveat in the approved form which shall include the following particulars:
The form was used in the past, For now, it should be this, STARS for lodgement http://www.sla.gov.sg/htm/new/new2003/new0230.htm
I am not a lawyer. Can any lawyer lurking around in this forum, please endorse or correct me. Just sharing.
And this free legal advice on how to do.. So good that they give it for free.
http://www.bizilaw.com/main/images/Articles/stars_e-lodgement_what_every_conveyancing_lawyer_should_know.pdf
Read this form details
http://www.sla.gov.sg/doc/new/PC_2_of_2007.pdf go to Annex A, it says applicant in person or his representative. So that is your answer.
Interestingly.. all these are contained in the Land Titles ACT
PART XII
CAVEATS
Caveats may be lodged
115. —(1) Any person claiming an interest in land (whether or not the land has been brought under the provisions of this Act), or any person otherwise authorised by this Act or any other written law to do so, may lodge with the Registrar a caveat in the approved form which shall include the following particulars:
The form was used in the past, For now, it should be this, STARS for lodgement http://www.sla.gov.sg/htm/new/new2003/new0230.htm
I am not a lawyer. Can any lawyer lurking around in this forum, please endorse or correct me. Just sharing.
Sorry, what I meant was can we, as an individual can lodge in the caveat in the online system? There are many times you require prerequisite before proceeding online. (Eg; bca license, etc.)
Don't buy a > S$1m product and try to save $3k.
Never a good idea.
Don't buy a > S$1m product and try to save $3k.
Never a good idea.
Good advice and strongly encouraged to heed.
Earlier point, could we lodged ourselves? Should be yes except for some program set up and fees.. not worth the effort if you are just doing 1 deal in 1 year for example. Get someone to do it for you and CORRECTLY, and LAWYERS should charge about 0.15% from the cost of property (negotiable).
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