View Full Version : 99leasehold versus freehold
deemarco69
11-05-10, 22:22
dear all,
would like to seek your advice on 99LH vs FH. for FH, understand the potential for enbloc. however, for 99, what are the potential of enbloc? since we usually have enbloc for a property after maybe 20-30 years, would it mean that a 99 LH property only have remaining 70+ years more if some developer buys it?
cheers
dear all,
would like to seek your advice on 99LH vs FH. for FH, understand the potential for enbloc. however, for 99, what are the potential of enbloc? since we usually have enbloc for a property after maybe 20-30 years, would it mean that a 99 LH property only have remaining 70+ years more if some developer buys it?
cheers
Why don't you post your question in one of these threads?
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=8659
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=9134
Wild Falcon
11-05-10, 23:27
The developer will need to top up the lease and get approval. The lease topup will eat into your enbloc proceeds. Such lease topup in not required for FH property. That's why most enblocs are freehold with a few exceptions, e.g. Farrer Park that is 99LH. And with GLS happening so frequently, most developers would prefer to get 99LH through the GLS process which is cheaper and less hassle.
And enbloc is NOT a given. I suspect that some condos will have to let the lease run down to zero or owners have to vote to decide whether to top up the lease by footing the hefty bill. You will see that maybe 40 years where some old leasehold property owners will start to panic if they have 10 years left.
dear all,
would like to seek your advice on 99LH vs FH. for FH, understand the potential for enbloc. however, for 99, what are the potential of enbloc? since we usually have enbloc for a property after maybe 20-30 years, would it mean that a 99 LH property only have remaining 70+ years more if some developer buys it?
cheers
The developer will need to top up the lease and get approval. The lease topup will eat into your enbloc proceeds. Such lease topup in not required for FH property. That's why most enblocs are freehold with a few exceptions, e.g. Farrer Park that is 99LH. And with GLS happening so frequently, most developers would prefer to get 99LH through the GLS process which is cheaper and less hassle.
And enbloc is NOT a given. I suspect that some condos will have to let the lease run down to zero or owners have to vote to decide whether to top up the lease by footing the hefty bill. You will see that maybe 40 years where some old leasehold property owners will start to panic if they have 10 years left.
I think it has yet to be tested what will happen next when the lease run out and the land needs to be returned to the government. What will happen to the building on the land?:confused:
devilplate
12-05-10, 00:13
And enbloc is NOT a given. I suspect that some condos will have to let the lease run down to zero or owners have to vote to decide whether to top up the lease by footing the hefty bill. You will see that maybe 40 years where some old leasehold property owners will start to panic if they have 10 years left.
govt will do smthing abt it. if govt really bochup and let 99LH condo to expire, i dun tink they can ever sell 99LH land again :D
govt will do smthing abt it. if govt really bochup and let 99LH condo to expire, i dun tink they can ever sell 99LH land again :D
The same goes for HDB.
When Wong Kan Seng advised Singaporeans not to sell their HDB flats for a quick buck, there is some sort of implicit guarantee that the flats will SERS when they get too old.
However, the condition (also implicit) is that Singaporeans must continue to support the PAP so that the current regime continues.
A lot of things are implicit.
However, looking at the very small price difference between 99-year and freehold properties, I think the market feels that there is little chance this current regime (and its implicit guarantees) can survive beyond 99 years.
And looking at the almost non-existent difference between 999-year and freehold properties, I think the market feels that there is almost no chance the current regime and legal framework can survive beyond 999 years.
devilplate
12-05-10, 01:10
so conclusion: HDB safe and 99LH condos shd be 'implicitly' safe simply bcoz too many 99LH condos?
the tricky part will be those minority 99LH landed....possible scenerio: govt offer an affordable rate for owners to top up or renew lease.
FH is always the best choice for long term investment. But buying a property has many other important criterias than purely FH or LH.
The same goes for HDB.
When Wong Kan Seng advised Singaporeans not to sell their HDB flats for a quick buck, there is some sort of implicit guarantee that the flats will SERS when they get too old.
However, the condition (also implicit) is that Singaporeans must continue to support the PAP so that the current regime continues.
A lot of things are implicit.
However, looking at the very small price difference between 99-year and freehold properties, I think the market feels that there is little chance this current regime (and its implicit guarantees) can survive beyond 99 years.
And looking at the almost non-existent difference between 999-year and freehold properties, I think the market feels that there is almost no chance the current regime and legal framework can survive beyond 999 years.
i like your implicit underlining statement.... so pushing for more leasehold development and 50 yrs down the road, more leasehold property owners will need to support the approving goverment to ensure that their leasehold property still holds. humm... very very long term strategy.
devilplate
12-05-10, 11:06
i like your implicit underlining statement.... so pushing for more leasehold development and 50 yrs down the road, more leasehold property owners will need to support the approving goverment to ensure that their leasehold property still holds. humm... very very long term strategy.
by the fact tat LKY builds affordable HDB public housing: to make sure everyone got a home(stake) in SG is oredi a very good long term strategy!
by only selling 99LH state land is also to prevent foreign players to 'conquer' Sg land.
Singapore being a young nation, it is still to to early to forecast wat happens after 99 yrs. Can u live to tell the tale? Would u dare to stay in a building which is 60yrs old....tis is y govt will steps in to encourage en-blocks n so on....given our limited lands n space the only way to go is Up Up Up!!!!!!
Ai yo, that is the problem in Singapore. Cannot last 99 years? You know in overseas there are many buildings 100+ years old, 200+ years old and people are still staying in them, no problem. Only if the quality of the building is so poor that they cannot last even 99 years then got problem.
Singapore being a young nation, it is still to to early to forecast wat happens after 99 yrs. Can u live to tell the tale? Would u dare to stay in a building which is 60yrs old....tis is y govt will steps in to encourage en-blocks n so on....given our limited lands n space the only way to go is Up Up Up!!!!!!
devilplate
12-05-10, 18:13
Ai yo, that is the problem in Singapore. Cannot last 99 years? You know in overseas there are many buildings 100+ years old, 200+ years old and people are still staying in them, no problem. Only if the quality of the building is so poor that they cannot last even 99 years then got problem.
but i rather support enbloc and build new ones....went to Taiwan or even HK...so many super old buildings...no upkeep...nvr paint like 100+ yrs
ugly sight!
Who knows, next time govt may only sell 70 or 60 lease
Ugly outside never mind, beautiful inside can already. Outside is out of our control. Furthermore, Singapore has very good strata title law and hence buildings here need to re-painted every 7 years or so.
but i rather support enbloc and build new ones....went to Taiwan or even HK...so many super old buildings...no upkeep...nvr paint like 100+ yrs
ugly sight!
proud owner
12-05-10, 23:22
Ai yo, that is the problem in Singapore. Cannot last 99 years? You know in overseas there are many buildings 100+ years old, 200+ years old and people are still staying in them, no problem. Only if the quality of the building is so poor that they cannot last even 99 years then got problem.
the difference is ... most european countries have buildings that are over 100 yrs old (at least) .. but the weather is different
in spore : hot (expand) ..rain (contract) then crack, then rain, wet sippage .. then hot and cold again ..over time .. the struction does not last as long as those in europe
even those our buildings have not tested 99 yrs ... but i am pretty sure ... ours will look more run down .. or not as long lasting as those in cooler countries
the difference is ... most european countries have buildings that are over 100 yrs old (at least) .. but the weather is different
in spore : hot (expand) ..rain (contract) then crack, then rain, wet sippage .. then hot and cold again ..over time .. the struction does not last as long as those in europe
even those our buildings have not tested 99 yrs ... but i am pretty sure ... ours will look more run down .. or not as long lasting as those in cooler countries
Depends on what type of building. Some after refurbished look quite good.
http://www.travellingbazaar.com/images/Singapore/Fullerton%20Hotel%20Singapore.JPGhttp://images.travelpod.com/users/rwk/asia_w._mommas.1180789020.singapore_city_hall.jpg
proud owner
12-05-10, 23:55
ever wonder what was the material used ??
stone ? or concrete ?
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