View Full Version : Govt bumps up land supply to cool market
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_529651.html
May 21, 2010
31 sites for private homes
By Koh Hui Theng
SOME 31 sites are coming onto the market in the second half of 2010, yielding almost 14,000 private homes - the biggest potential supply since 2001.
To meet the strong demand for private housing and land, the Ministry of National Develoment (MND) will release 27 residential sites and four mixed-use sites under the Government Land Sales (GLS) Programme for the second half of the year.
Together, they can generate 13,905 private residential units.
Most of the 31 sites are located outside the Central Region, where more affordable private housing are expected to be built.
In the first quarter of this year, there were over 63,500 private residential units in the pipeline, of which 42,717 are expected to be completed between the second quarter of 2010 and 2013.
Almost a third of the units will be in Core Central Region, or the prime districts.
In a statement on Friday, the MND that another 6,270 units from sites sold or to be sold under the second half GLS programme were not included to the pipeline as submission for planning approval had not been made.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_529657.html
May 21, 2010
More homes, hotels to come
By Koh Hui Theng
MORE land for homes, hotels and shops are coming up, said the Ministry of National Development on Friday.
Besides the 27 sites to be released in the second half of 2010, another three commercial sites, three commercial and residential sites, two white sites and 10 hotel sites will also be available on the confirmed and reserve lists.
The supply is likely to yield 13,905 private residential units, 399,830 sqm Gross Floor Area (GFA) of commercial space and 3,750 hotel rooms.
As at the first quarter of 2010, there is a total supply of about 1.02 million sqm GFA of office space from various Government and private land sources in the pipeline. Of these, about 931,000 sqm GFA of office space is expected to be completed between the second quarter of 2010 and 2013.
For the shop and hotel sectors, a total supply of about 428,000 sqm GFA of shop space and 15,031 hotel rooms are in the works. Most are expected to be completed between the second quarter of 2010 and 2013.
The estimated pipeline supply is based on expected project completion dates provided to the Urban Redevelopment Authority by developers on a quarterly basis. These completion dates will be updated when URA releases the second quarter Real Estate Statistics in end-July 2010.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_529660.html
May 21, 2010
More land for private homes
By Joyce Teo
THE Government on Friday annnounced it will place a whopping 18 sites for confirmed sale in the second half of this year to meet the strong demand for private housing and land.
These sites can yield 13,905 residential units.
It will also release another 13 sites on the reserve list that can yield 5770 residential units.
Together, these 31 sites can generate 13,905 units, the highest potential supply quantum from any Government land sales since the second half of 2001.
The Government sells land under the confirmed list method and the reserve list.
The former is where sites are put up for sale regardless of developers' prior indications of interest.
The latter is where sites are only put up for sale if developers show interest in them.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1058199/1/.html
Govt to release 31 residential sites in 2nd half
Posted: 21 May 2010 1743 hrs
SINGAPORE: The government is ramping up the supply of sites for private housing in the second half of the year to meet strong demand.
All in, the second half of the Government Land Sales (GLS) programme will have 27 residential sites and four mixed-use sites where private housing can be built.
21 are new sites and 10 sites will be carried over from the first half.
Overall, the 31 sites in the second half of the Confirmed and Reserve Lists can generate 13,905 private residential units.
The number is the highest potential supply quantum from any half-yearly period since the Confirmed List and Reserve List system started in 2001.
Most of the sites in the second half are located in the suburban regions or in the city fringes.
A National Development Ministry statement says it is placing 18 sites on the Confirmed List in the second half of the GLS programme.
Together, these 18 sites can yield 8,135 residential units - the biggest supply of private housing from the Confirmed List since the Confirmed List/Reserve List system was introduced in 2001.
The 18 Confirmed List sites comprise 15 residential sites, including five executive condo sites, two commercial and residential sites and a white site.
Of these sites, 12 are new sites and six sites will be carried over from the first half.
The Reserve List in the second half will have another 13 sites, which can together yield 5,770 residential units.
The 13 Reserve List sites comprise 12 residential sites and one commercial & residential site, where
private residential units can potentially be built.
Of the 13 sites, nine are new sites and four sites will be carried over from the first half of the GLS programme.
However, the government says it will be removing the white site at Ophir Road/Rochor Road from its land sales programme.
The plot was made available for sale via the Reserve List in October 2008 and it is a strategic site earmarked as an extension of the commercial district.
Three new white sites will also be available in the second half of 2010.
These are plots at Choon Guan Street/Peck Seah Street, Paya Lebar Road/Eunos Road 8 and Boon Lay Way.
- CNA/ir
Almost all sites in OCR?
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_529651.html
May 21, 2010
31 sites for private homes
By Koh Hui Theng
SOME 31 sites are coming onto the market in the second half of 2010, yielding almost 14,000 private homes - the biggest potential supply since 2001.
To meet the strong demand for private housing and land, the Ministry of National Develoment (MND) will release 27 residential sites and four mixed-use sites under the Government Land Sales (GLS) Programme for the second half of the year.
Together, they can generate 13,905 private residential units.
Most of the 31 sites are located outside the Central Region, where more affordable private housing are expected to be built.
In the first quarter of this year, there were over 63,500 private residential units in the pipeline, of which 42,717 are expected to be completed between the second quarter of 2010 and 2013.
Almost a third of the units will be in Core Central Region, or the prime districts.
In a statement on Friday, the MND that another 6,270 units from sites sold or to be sold under the second half GLS programme were not included to the pipeline as submission for planning approval had not been made.
Wild Falcon
21-05-10, 19:54
Mainly in the eastern and northern part of SG.
devilplate
21-05-10, 19:57
i tink govt take the opportunity to release land in punggol, pasir ris etc...They r very opprtunistic!
only got a white site at peck seah in CCR...
The good ones are in reserved list. Almost all near existing or future MRTs e.g. Tanah Merah, Bartley , Bishan, Bedok Reservoir (DTL3), Sengkang MRT etc.
The confirmed lists mostly are ECs far from MRT.
TreeHouse will be blocked on the south side soon ... :doh:
Regulators
22-05-10, 00:17
buyers who bought treehouse are actually waiting to be blocked. they are punting that the remaining plots around when launched will jack up the price of The Treehouse. These buyers are not stupid, most are investors who are not buying for own stay. Look at the video of the packed showroom on balloting day and you will understand what i am saying.
The good ones are in reserved list. Almost all near existing or future MRTs e.g. Tanah Merah, Bartley , Bishan, Bedok Reservoir (DTL3), Sengkang MRT etc.
The confirmed lists mostly are ECs far from MRT.
TreeHouse will be blocked on the south side soon ... :doh:
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,387147,00.html?
Published May 22, 2010
Govt bumps up land supply to cool market
Record 14,405 private homes can be built on land offered this year; move likely to immediately douse sales, and tame prices ahead
By KALPANA RASHIWALA AND UMA SHANKARI
THE government yesterday dramatically increased the supply of land for the second half of this year to meet the demand for private homes. And the impact of this strong signal to the market is expected to be immediate, in terms of cooling home sales as well as dampening land bids. Prices are also expected to lose steam.
A record number of at least 14,405 private homes are expected to be built from land sold this year - comprising an estimated 6,270 units from sites sold in H1 and an 8,135-unit supply from confirmed list sites that will be launched in the second half.
This surpasses the previous record supply in 1997 when the government sold land for about 8,500 units.
'I hope that with this increased supply, homebuyers will be assured that there is ample supply in the market and therefore there is no need to rush. This will probably dampen some of the exuberance in the market,' National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan told reporters at a door-stop interview yesterday evening.
More demand side measures could be introduced if necessary, he added.
Under the Ministry of National Development's record land sales programme, the 8,135 private homes (including executive condos) from the confirmed list sites for H2 is some 2.8 times the supply of 2,925 units from the H1 confirmed list.
Through the reserve list, MND will offer land for 5,770 private homes in H2, lower than the 7,625 units in H1. Reserve list sites are launched for tender only upon successful application by developers, unlike confirmed list plots which are released according to a prestated schedule regardless of developer interest.
Nonetheless, the total supply of 13,905 units that can be generated from both confirmed and reserve lists in H2 is also the highest ever that the government has offered.
DTZ executive director (consulting) Ong Choon Fah said: 'The impact will be quite immediate because the message being sent is clear, that the government will ensure that there is sufficient supply to meet demand.
'Land bids are likely to moderate at the next tender, which closes next week. And we could also see impact on home sales this weekend. There could be some knee-jerk reaction, and people may start to evaluate and look at the latest sites on offer to see if they can afford to wait a little longer as they have more choices now. However, underlying demand for owner occupation remains strong as HDB upgraders aspire to upgrade to a condo.'
'As land prices start to moderate, developers will have more flexibility on their pricing strategy,' she added.
Frasers Centrepoint group CEO Lim Ee Seng told BT that while the 8,135-unit confirmed list supply was much higher than he had expected, it was not totally a surprise given the high land bids at state tenders.
'One of the reasons our company has not been bidding aggressively at state tenders is a fear that government will jack up supply, and our fear has materialised.'
Frasers Centrepoint has clinched just one site at state tenders in the past nine months - an EC site in Sengkang.
MND's H2 2010 land supply programme announcement yesterday evening was almost a fortnight earlier than last year's second half announcement date. Mr Lim welcomed the government's transparency with giving details as early as it could, as that will guide developers in bids at coming tenders.
For the second half of this year, the government is offering a total of 45 sites comprising 18 confirmed list and 27 reserve list plots. The land parcels consist of 27 residential plots, three commercial sites, another three commercial and residential land parcels, two white sites and 10 hotel sites.
In addition to 13,905 private homes (including 2,360 executive condo or EC units), the H2 2010 programme can yield 4.3 million sq ft gross floor area of commercial space and 3,750 hotel rooms.
Twenty-three of the 45 sites are new. The other 22 are being carried over from the H1 slate.
All five EC sites are on the confirmed list. Most of the residential land parcels in the H2 slate are in the Outside Central Region or in locations in the Rest of Central Region that are close to HDB estates. These sites will 'therefore provide additional supply of more affordable private housing', the Ministry of National Development noted.
MND has removed the white site at Ophir/Rochor roads that was on the reserve list 'as the development plan for the site is being reviewed'.
Cushman & Wakefield managing director Donald Han said that this may have to do with all the construction works going on around the site from the Downtown Line but noted that the government has compensated for this by introducing a plum 'white' site opposite International Plaza (above Tanjong Pagar MRT Station) to the confirmed list.
This will have minimum office and hotel components, although the plot is also envisaged to accommodate 490 residences.
MND also introduced two sites with minimum office components to the reserve list - a commercial plot next to Paya Lebar MRT Station and a white site beside Jurong East MRT Station - to propel the development of the two locations as major commercial hubs outside the CBD.
DTZ's Mrs Ong noted, however, that other than the white site at Tanjong Pagar, the Government has not offered any CBD office sites, perhaps suggesting it was adopting a cautious view of the office market.
CB Richard Ellis executive director Li Hiaw Ho suggested 'the Government should perhaps look into placing more commercial sites in the CBD on the confirmed list in the next six to 12 months to ensure a steady stream of office space for the business and and financial community from 2013 onwards'.
http://www.straitstimes.com/PrimeNews/Story/STIStory_529772.html
May 22, 2010
Largest land release for private homes
Govt's move likely to rein in sky-high bids by developers, say experts
By Joyce Teo & Fiona Chan
THE Government has moved to meet surging demand for housing by lining up the largest ever release of state land for private homes.
It has placed 18 residential or residential/commercial sites on the programme for confirmed sale in the second half of the year.
There will also be 13 sites for residential use on the reserve list. These plots - of which 20 are new and not rolled over previously - could accommodate about 13,905 new homes.
The plots range from areas in Jurong West to Pasir Ris and include land in mass-market areas like Hougang and Tampines.
'I hope that with this increased supply, home buyers will be assured that there is ample supply in the market and therefore... there is no need to rush,' said National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan yesterday.
'So this will probably... dampen some of the exuberance in the market,' he added.
Ngee Ann Polytechnic real estate lecturer Nicholas Mak said 'home buyers will be spoilt for choice and the competition should moderate mass market home prices'.
The supply announced yesterday is 32 per cent more than the amount of land introduced in the first half of this year and is sure to put the brakes on developers bidding sky-high prices for sites, say property experts. And that means more reasonable prices for buyers as well.
'The Government is sending a strong signal to developers that there is no need to bid very high prices. Developers also have a good choice of reserve list sites but they will have to share the responsibility if there is a glut,' said Mr Mak.
The 18 confirmed list sites include five executive condominium plots. They will go on sale regardless of developers' prior indications of interest.
They will yield an estimated 8,135 housing units. This will be the highest number of units in any one release since land sales started in 1967.
The previous record was a release in the second half of the 2007 boom year that could accommodate just 3,000 units.
The reserve list contains 12 residential sites and one plot for commercial and residential use. These go on sale only if developers signal interest by making an acceptable initial offer.
Apart from a mixed-use site, the confirmed non-landed residential plots are in mass market spots such as Hougang, Punggol, Woodlands and Tampines. They can yield 265 to 810 units each.
CBRE Research believes that sites near MRT stations will continue to attract strong interest.
Mr Mah had said in March this year that the Government will ramp up supply in the second half of the year to give developers more choice.
His comments came after the Government introduced two rounds of cooling measures, in September last year and again in February.
Yet demand has remained strong. In the first four months of the year, developers have already sold 6,587 units of new private homes - nearly 45 per cent of the entire sales last year.
Mass-market home prices have exceeded the 2007 peak levels and look set to rise further with developers bidding hard for sites.
'Developers afraid of emptying their landbank were bidding aggressively and prices were getting too crazy. Now, the whole system will adjust itself,' said a developer.
Colliers International investment sales executive director Ho Eng Joo added: 'Many developers are still hungry for land, but the huge confirmed list supply will prevent prices from rising significantly.'
Jones Lang LaSalle's head of research for South-east Asia, Dr Chua Yang Liang, agreed: 'It looks like they are using the supply approach to cool prices. But the large supply is likely to affect prices only in the longer term.
'In the short term, demand is still supported by the economic recovery in the region and low interest rate environment.'
Dr Chua added the pace of demand has slowed in recent weeks, due to uncertainty over the euro zone crisis in Europe.
'Overall, mass-market home prices have risen. Will this supply bring it back down? I don't think so but it will help check the price growth.'
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Large GLS does not g'tee price will soften, it depends very much on the econ outlook.
if the outlook is good, just more $$$$$$$$ goes to the developers
Almost all sites in OCR?
an indication that OCR prices have risen too much? :)
devilplate
23-05-10, 00:28
an indication that OCR prices have risen too much? :)
govt wana take opportunity to make some $
if release during recession, very low bid mah...below reserve price somemore :tongue3:
an indication that OCR prices have risen too much? :)
No.
An indication that the Government has mostly OCR land.
Especially places of which our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" has lots of opinion. :scared-4:
If you want to know which places these are, go to the search function above, key in "Regulators" into User Name and "pollution" into Key Word.
Regulators
23-05-10, 01:10
how can the prices be cooled down when land is sold to developers at record bids? :doh: :doh:
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,387147,00.html?
Published May 22, 2010
Govt bumps up land supply to cool market
Record 14,405 private homes can be built on land offered this year; move likely to immediately douse sales, and tame prices ahead
By KALPANA RASHIWALA AND UMA SHANKARI
THE government yesterday dramatically increased the supply of land for the second half of this year to meet the demand for private homes. And the impact of this strong signal to the market is expected to be immediate, in terms of cooling home sales as well as dampening land bids. Prices are also expected to lose steam.
A record number of at least 14,405 private homes are expected to be built from land sold this year - comprising an estimated 6,270 units from sites sold in H1 and an 8,135-unit supply from confirmed list sites that will be launched in the second half.
This surpasses the previous record supply in 1997 when the government sold land for about 8,500 units.
'I hope that with this increased supply, homebuyers will be assured that there is ample supply in the market and therefore there is no need to rush. This will probably dampen some of the exuberance in the market,' National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan told reporters at a door-stop interview yesterday evening.
More demand side measures could be introduced if necessary, he added.
Under the Ministry of National Development's record land sales programme, the 8,135 private homes (including executive condos) from the confirmed list sites for H2 is some 2.8 times the supply of 2,925 units from the H1 confirmed list.
Through the reserve list, MND will offer land for 5,770 private homes in H2, lower than the 7,625 units in H1. Reserve list sites are launched for tender only upon successful application by developers, unlike confirmed list plots which are released according to a prestated schedule regardless of developer interest.
Nonetheless, the total supply of 13,905 units that can be generated from both confirmed and reserve lists in H2 is also the highest ever that the government has offered.
DTZ executive director (consulting) Ong Choon Fah said: 'The impact will be quite immediate because the message being sent is clear, that the government will ensure that there is sufficient supply to meet demand.
'Land bids are likely to moderate at the next tender, which closes next week. And we could also see impact on home sales this weekend. There could be some knee-jerk reaction, and people may start to evaluate and look at the latest sites on offer to see if they can afford to wait a little longer as they have more choices now. However, underlying demand for owner occupation remains strong as HDB upgraders aspire to upgrade to a condo.'
'As land prices start to moderate, developers will have more flexibility on their pricing strategy,' she added.
Frasers Centrepoint group CEO Lim Ee Seng told BT that while the 8,135-unit confirmed list supply was much higher than he had expected, it was not totally a surprise given the high land bids at state tenders.
'One of the reasons our company has not been bidding aggressively at state tenders is a fear that government will jack up supply, and our fear has materialised.'
Frasers Centrepoint has clinched just one site at state tenders in the past nine months - an EC site in Sengkang.
MND's H2 2010 land supply programme announcement yesterday evening was almost a fortnight earlier than last year's second half announcement date. Mr Lim welcomed the government's transparency with giving details as early as it could, as that will guide developers in bids at coming tenders.
For the second half of this year, the government is offering a total of 45 sites comprising 18 confirmed list and 27 reserve list plots. The land parcels consist of 27 residential plots, three commercial sites, another three commercial and residential land parcels, two white sites and 10 hotel sites.
In addition to 13,905 private homes (including 2,360 executive condo or EC units), the H2 2010 programme can yield 4.3 million sq ft gross floor area of commercial space and 3,750 hotel rooms.
Twenty-three of the 45 sites are new. The other 22 are being carried over from the H1 slate.
All five EC sites are on the confirmed list. Most of the residential land parcels in the H2 slate are in the Outside Central Region or in locations in the Rest of Central Region that are close to HDB estates. These sites will 'therefore provide additional supply of more affordable private housing', the Ministry of National Development noted.
MND has removed the white site at Ophir/Rochor roads that was on the reserve list 'as the development plan for the site is being reviewed'.
Cushman & Wakefield managing director Donald Han said that this may have to do with all the construction works going on around the site from the Downtown Line but noted that the government has compensated for this by introducing a plum 'white' site opposite International Plaza (above Tanjong Pagar MRT Station) to the confirmed list.
This will have minimum office and hotel components, although the plot is also envisaged to accommodate 490 residences.
MND also introduced two sites with minimum office components to the reserve list - a commercial plot next to Paya Lebar MRT Station and a white site beside Jurong East MRT Station - to propel the development of the two locations as major commercial hubs outside the CBD.
DTZ's Mrs Ong noted, however, that other than the white site at Tanjong Pagar, the Government has not offered any CBD office sites, perhaps suggesting it was adopting a cautious view of the office market.
CB Richard Ellis executive director Li Hiaw Ho suggested 'the Government should perhaps look into placing more commercial sites in the CBD on the confirmed list in the next six to 12 months to ensure a steady stream of office space for the business and and financial community from 2013 onwards'.
devilplate
23-05-10, 01:16
even if developer bot it cheap..will they launch cheap anot? :D :D :D
to me, govt trying to develop areas like punggol...i dun mind developer pay higher prices for land...afterall, the $ goes into our national reserves....rather den devt buy low and sell high...profit all goes to developer pocket...hope it makes sense...:D
.
An indication that the Government has mostly OCR land.
.
the stretch after Tanglin View has a lot of all empty land. Let's see the tender prices for the plot besides Ascentia Sky & those at Stirling Rd. :) hopefully more than 700psf<
devilplate
23-05-10, 11:06
the stretch after Tanglin View has a lot of all empty land. Let's see the tender prices for the plot besides Ascentia Sky & those at Stirling Rd. :) hopefully more than 700psf<
dun hf to hope...easily 700-750psf...tats the best plot of land other den peck seah
Wild Falcon
23-05-10, 16:29
Nah. Govt is opportunistic -they have lots of so-called RCR or CCR land. just look at the Marina East area :). And many empty and dilapidated tall offices and hotels are also converting to residential in central areas. Reason why they're selling the OCR land in Pasir Ris and Tampines is becos OCR land is HOT and there is great demand from developers. There are some RCR land sitting on the Reserve List for years and no developer is interested in bidding, while some ulu land in Chestnut was actually triggered. Developers look for the best potential and not necessarily RCR or CCR.
In short, govt is just waiting for the best time to sell their CCR land - and obviously looking at today's lacklustre demand, this is not the best time yet. The property developers can keep shouting the foreign investors are snapping up luxury properties, but we all know the luxury market has not fully recovered.
No.
An indication that the Government has mostly OCR land.
Especially places of which our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" has lots of opinion. :scared-4:
If you want to know which places these are, go to the search function above, key in "Regulators" into User Name and "pollution" into Key Word.
Wild Falcon
23-05-10, 16:54
Regulators is the one shouting "Buy D12" and "Buy D15" in every thread? Obviously the air in Balestier is the cleanest in pure and pristine condition :)
Singapore's carbon footprint is 40 million tonnes excluding jet fuel and marine bunker pollution. If we include jet fuel aviation and marine pollution, the carbon footprint increase by another 100 million tonnes to 140 million tonnes. In short, those pollution caused by our supercars on the road are rather immaterial. A lot more energy (i.e. emission) is required to power an aeroplane than a car. This 100 million tonnes of carbon emission contributed 72% of the carbon emission in SG. So stay away from areas close to the sea port and air port - if you're so afraid of pollution. In any case, it is small country - the air gets blown everywhere.
No.
An indication that the Government has mostly OCR land.
Especially places of which our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" has lots of opinion. :scared-4:
If you want to know which places these are, go to the search function above, key in "Regulators" into User Name and "pollution" into Key Word.
Regulators
23-05-10, 17:30
i withdraw my buy call in this current market and switch to hold position. i think the only person that still has a buy call would be jlrx aka propertism guru. i think middle of singapore to mid south have the cleanest air. we have jurong island flanking on the west side and pasir gudang petrochemical plant flanking on the north east region. toa payoh in D12 is right smack in the middle of singapore so that has one of the cleanest air in comparison to other parts of singapore.
Regulators is the one shouting "Buy D12" and "Buy D15" in every thread? Obviously the air in Balestier is the cleanest in pure and pristine condition :)
Singapore's carbon footprint is 40 million tonnes excluding jet fuel and marine bunker pollution. If we include jet fuel aviation and marine pollution, the carbon footprint increase by another 100 million tonnes to 140 million tonnes. In short, those pollution caused by our supercars on the road are rather immaterial. A lot more energy (i.e. emission) is required to power an aeroplane than a car. This 100 million tonnes of carbon emission contributed 72% of the carbon emission in SG. So stay away from areas close to the sea port and air port - if you're so afraid of pollution. In any case, it is small country - the air gets blown everywhere.
no big attraction with the sites put up for sale. they are certainly keeping the good stuff.
Nah, Marina area has never been considered CCR until they want to sell these places with 99LH and at high price. Smart people will know that they should stick to the traditional CCR than the newly added CCR areas. :rolleyes:
If luxury market has not recovered means there is more value than those that has overshot previous high? :cheers1:
Nah. Govt is opportunistic -they have lots of so-called RCR or CCR land. just look at the Marina East area :). And many empty and dilapidated tall offices and hotels are also converting to residential in central areas. Reason why they're selling the OCR land in Pasir Ris and Tampines is becos OCR land is HOT and there is great demand from developers. There are some RCR land sitting on the Reserve List for years and no developer is interested in bidding, while some ulu land in Chestnut was actually triggered. Developers look for the best potential and not necessarily RCR or CCR.
In short, govt is just waiting for the best time to sell their CCR land - and obviously looking at today's lacklustre demand, this is not the best time yet. The property developers can keep shouting the foreign investors are snapping up luxury properties, but we all know the luxury market has not fully recovered.
devilplate
23-05-10, 21:39
Nah, Marina area has never been considered CCR until they want to sell these places with 99LH and at high price. Smart people will know that they should stick to the traditional CCR than the newly added CCR areas. :rolleyes:
If luxury market has not recovered means there is more value than those that has overshot previous high? :cheers1:
u obviously vested in only 9,10,11
many of us also bot into D1,2 and make $...not only u r smart?
Wild Falcon
23-05-10, 22:58
Nope. It means it may never recover to the previous highs becos the previous high has "overshot" and not supported by fundamentals (yields, runway for capital gains) other than "foreign Santa Claus is coming to town becos of IR". I always believe it's better to invest in a place with real solid local demand. Now, agents are scratching their heads about "what's the next buzz word?". CCR can expand. Some of the "traditional" CCRs are losing their lustre - e.g. Novena with the hospital surroundings and cluttered environment. The only constant is change.
Nah, Marina area has never been considered CCR until they want to sell these places with 99LH and at high price. Smart people will know that they should stick to the traditional CCR than the newly added CCR areas. :rolleyes:
If luxury market has not recovered means there is more value than those that has overshot previous high? :cheers1:
The property developers can keep shouting the foreign investors are snapping up luxury properties, but we all know the luxury market has not fully recovered.
i withdraw my buy call in this current market and switch to hold position. i think the only person that still has a buy call would be jlrx aka propertism guru.
Nah, Marina area has never been considered CCR until they want to sell these places with 99LH and at high price. Smart people will know that they should stick to the traditional CCR than the newly added CCR areas. :rolleyes:
If luxury market has not recovered means there is more value than those that has overshot previous high? :cheers1:
Nope. It means it may never recover to the previous highs becos the previous high has "overshot" and not supported by fundamentals (yields, runway for capital gains) other than "foreign Santa Claus is coming to town becos of IR". I always believe it's better to invest in a place with real solid local demand. Now, agents are scratching their heads about "what's the next buzz word?". CCR can expand. Some of the "traditional" CCRs are losing their lustre - e.g. Novena with the hospital surroundings and cluttered environment. The only constant is change.
Looking at the above posts from some very seasoned property investors, one conclusion is obvious - the property market is unpredictable.
That's why it's better to have a finger in every pie, because you never know which region or sector is going to take off next.
Other than "change", the other constant is "PROPERTISM".
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.[/quote]
Like that ah...then when does one "take profit"? Or is selling to take profit the perogative of the beneficiary in our will after we pass on?
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
Like that ah...then when does one "take profit"? Or is selling to take profit the perogative of the beneficiary in our will after we pass on?[/QUOTE]
We pass the wealth (property) over to the next generation, until someone enbloc it. But make sure you buy another property to replace.
devilplate
24-05-10, 10:42
unlock some ppty when u r fully retired lor...must eat the fruits, if not turn stale. all pass down to descendents...:tsk-tsk:
i am sure they will sell the moment they got the keys :D
those good stuffs are in reserve list. maybe govt want to take this ride to get rid of more ulu land first. but i do notice under the white site the 2nd phase of jurong lake district land also put up for tender oct10. seems like they are going quite agressively on jurong transformation. probably there are some shout on the office shortage in coming years, so they also take this opportunity to kick start jurong lake district. govt should follow dubai style and kick off all development in one go. then can see the transformation faster.
devilplate
24-05-10, 10:55
[quote=RE_Owner govt should follow dubai style and kick off all development in one go. then can see the transformation faster.[/quote]
u prefer boom and doom?? :D
i want boom booom boooom.......like harley davidson
bargain hunter
24-05-10, 14:03
i really think the govt taking opportunity to get rid of ulu land. :) and developers are forced to buy from them no matter what. LOL.
those good stuffs are in reserve list. maybe govt want to take this ride to get rid of more ulu land first. but i do notice under the white site the 2nd phase of jurong lake district land also put up for tender oct10. seems like they are going quite agressively on jurong transformation. probably there are some shout on the office shortage in coming years, so they also take this opportunity to kick start jurong lake district. govt should follow dubai style and kick off all development in one go. then can see the transformation faster.
Wild Falcon
24-05-10, 14:12
Nowadays so many singles who prefer to have dogs than children - live and make merry liao. When they see their married friends fussing over PSLE and children's tuition and mother tongue, they rather not get into that lifestyle. That's why 1+1 are getting popular. I actually believe 1+1 in the suburbs can do well because they are so rare. And Singapore singles are still relatively "filial" and take most of the responsibilities and burden of looking after their aged parents, i.e. they still like to stay near their parents - wherever their parents are :) If parents in ulu Sembawang, they wouldn't want to stay too far away - filial piety mah :o .
unlock some ppty when u r fully retired lor...must eat the fruits, if not turn stale. all pass down to descendents...:tsk-tsk:
i am sure they will sell the moment they got the keys :D
Regulators
24-05-10, 14:12
the land might be ulu but the developers are launching at ridiculous prices becoz ulu land prices not cheap.
i really think the govt taking opportunity to get rid of ulu land. :) and developers are forced to buy from them no matter what. LOL.
bargain hunter
24-05-10, 14:36
but perhaps this time round the purpose is to bring down the headline psf. that's why they release "ulu-er" than the ulu land they released in H1. :ashamed1: and all at once. it shows there they will on average release 4 sites every month from july to oct 2010, do they stick to this schedule strictly?
the land might be ulu but the developers are launching at ridiculous prices becoz ulu land prices not cheap.
but perhaps this time round the purpose is to bring down the headline psf. that's why they release "ulu-er" than the ulu land they released in H1. :ashamed1: and all at once. it shows there they will on average release 4 sites every month from july to oct 2010, do they stick to this schedule strictly?
maybe they want to let the small player take a bite (but ulu pie) since they are always outplay by the big brother. too ulu big brother not interested, prime area small player cannot afford the game......so small player no fish prawn also take lor
bargain hunter
24-05-10, 14:54
agreed. even if the big bros collude and say want to buy cheap or avoid totally, there's always a new small player or construction company who is keen to pay a little more to be part of the action since they are more in control of the construction costs.
maybe they want to let the small player take a bite (but ulu pie) since they are always outplay by the big brother. too ulu big brother not interested, prime area small player cannot afford the game......so small player no fish prawn also take lor
devilplate
24-05-10, 16:12
as long as any ulu land site can fetch above 450psf, it will sort of create a support price level for the mass market. 800psf shd be the next support level gg forward. :D
i hf no complains :spliff2:
actually even with more sites, will it bring down the cost? nobody will want to take risk and put in the lowest bid. if it is a good site, developer will go all out to secure it. so probably the message across is more to buyers that NO NEED TO RUSH in to buy.......u have many choices!!! actually the base price is more or less settled at certain level....say $500psf so if i m the developer, whether i buy land at $200psf or $300psf i will still sell $500psf becos that is an invisible entry level......why should i sell low when the momentum is so good
bargain hunter
24-05-10, 16:52
if super ulu get at 300psf and sell at 500+ or 600+psf is as good as cooling already. that would have succeeded in bringing down headline psf even if location is much different. as devilplate says, if 450psf for land and sell at 800+psf, then it shows the cooling didn't work.
let's observe the sales for The Minton (is it previewing this weekend?) to see if the good momentum has been maintained. :)
actually even with more sites, will it bring down the cost? nobody will want to take risk and put in the lowest bid. if it is a good site, developer will go all out to secure it. so probably the message across is more to buyers that NO NEED TO RUSH in to buy.......u have many choices!!! actually the base price is more or less settled at certain level....say $500psf so if i m the developer, whether i buy land at $200psf or $300psf i will still sell $500psf becos that is an invisible entry level......why should i sell low when the momentum is so good
Wild Falcon
24-05-10, 20:48
Not true leh. Nowadays the small developers are the ones who outbid the big developers - about 1/3 of the GLS taken by small developers! They are the wild card :doh:. Look at Fragrance - very actively enblocing in the eastern part of SG and building MM budget-hotel-quality units and laughing to the bank with their MM units with inflated PSF. The small developers and their MM and low-cost-construction strategy seem to work in the past. Big developers sometime don't want to risk their reputation in cutting too much corners.
maybe they want to let the small player take a bite (but ulu pie) since they are always outplay by the big brother. too ulu big brother not interested, prime area small player cannot afford the game......so small player no fish prawn also take lor
u also have some smaller names, who are always too late to the party, and too greedy to see the risk.
if super ulu get at 300psf and sell at 500+ or 600+psf is as good as cooling already. that would have succeeded in bringing down headline psf even if location is much different. as devilplate says, if 450psf for land and sell at 800+psf, then it shows the cooling didn't work.
let's observe the sales for The Minton (is it previewing this weekend?) to see if the good momentum has been maintained. :)
:confused:
Why would the Government want to "succeed" in bringing down the psf?
If they have that intention, then does that mean they have failed over the past 45 years? :confused:
Our Government is a capable one.
I don't remember the Government said anything about wanting to "succeed" in bringing down property prices. In fact, to the contrary.
Flat prices will rise but still be affordable
MM: Cost grows with economy, but Govt will help first-home buyers
By Zakir Hussain , POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
http://www.pmo.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/92DF970F-B758-46D4-ADCC-A1066C18CC68/11168/MM_FlatPricesWillRiseButStillBeAffordable_ST_14Dec.jpg
(Picture: National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan guides MM Lee as he observes the city skyline from the 50th storey sky garden at the Pinnacle@Duxton. Mr Lee contrasted today's Singaporean skyline with 1960s, when people were 'living in overcrowded shophouses or squatter huts' without running water. - ST Photo)
SINGAPOREANS can expect the prices of HDB flats to keep on rising as long as the economy continues to grow, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said yesterday.
bargain hunter
24-05-10, 22:40
hello, that is not what i meant. i meant the government must bring down the HEADLINE PSF to show that they have done something. that means releasing very ulu land so that the psf bid there is lower than the 500psf hit in recent tenders. that would show that they have been providing affordable housing.
:confused:
Why would the Government want to "succeed" in bringing down the psf?
If they have that intention, then does that mean they have failed over the past 45 years? :confused:
Our Government is a capable one.
I don't remember the Government said anything about wanting to "succeed" in bringing down property prices. In fact, to the contrary.
Flat prices will rise but still be affordable
MM: Cost grows with economy, but Govt will help first-home buyers
By Zakir Hussain , POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
http://www.pmo.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/92DF970F-B758-46D4-ADCC-A1066C18CC68/11168/MM_FlatPricesWillRiseButStillBeAffordable_ST_14Dec.jpg
(Picture: National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan guides MM Lee as he observes the city skyline from the 50th storey sky garden at the Pinnacle@Duxton. Mr Lee contrasted today's Singaporean skyline with 1960s, when people were 'living in overcrowded shophouses or squatter huts' without running water. - ST Photo)
SINGAPOREANS can expect the prices of HDB flats to keep on rising as long as the economy continues to grow, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said yesterday.
Regulators
25-05-10, 00:23
i dont think there is a fixed schedule. they may decide to hold back later depending on market sentiments for eg. when another economic crisis spurred by europe is prevalent.
but perhaps this time round the purpose is to bring down the headline psf. that's why they release "ulu-er" than the ulu land they released in H1. :ashamed1: and all at once. it shows there they will on average release 4 sites every month from july to oct 2010, do they stick to this schedule strictly?
hello, that is not what i meant. i meant the government must bring down the HEADLINE PSF to show that they have done something. that means releasing very ulu land so that the psf bid there is lower than the 500psf hit in recent tenders. that would show that they have been providing affordable housing.
Actually, I am thinking along the same line too. They are smart, aren't they?
Regulators
25-05-10, 00:31
govt will be a fool to sell land at a low coz developers would still sell high regardless of whether they bought land at a low or not. i think in future all closing bids for mrt land regardless of whether it is woodlands, simei, or any part of singapore would be at 400-500psf and developers will be launching at 9xxpsf to 1.1k psf even for ulu locations. All these new launches islandwide will bring prices of property in the whole of singapore up by at least 10% on average in the next year or so imo. 31 sites released for sale is just the beginning, not to mention developers' competition for land in the en bloc market in time to come.
actually even with more sites, will it bring down the cost? nobody will want to take risk and put in the lowest bid. if it is a good site, developer will go all out to secure it. so probably the message across is more to buyers that NO NEED TO RUSH in to buy.......u have many choices!!! actually the base price is more or less settled at certain level....say $500psf so if i m the developer, whether i buy land at $200psf or $300psf i will still sell $500psf becos that is an invisible entry level......why should i sell low when the momentum is so good
hello, that is not what i meant. i meant the government must bring down the HEADLINE PSF to show that they have done something. that means releasing very ulu land so that the psf bid there is lower than the 500psf hit in recent tenders. that would show that they have been providing affordable housing.
Why would the government even want to bring down the HEADLINE PSF?
In fact, the government should bring up (not down) the HEADLINE PSF to make voters feel even richer since the General Election is coming.
Recently I met some relatives. One family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $550,000. Another family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $450,000 (as for why this one went up less, our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" will be able to explain better).
There are many many such happy families in Singapore.
A voter who feels rich is more likely to vote for the Government. Just ask me!
proud owner
25-05-10, 01:10
Actually, I am thinking along the same line too. They are smart, aren't they?
as much as i dislike some of their policies .. i always think our govt too smart ..
if this is what they planning to do ..they effectively kill 2 birds with 1 stone
1 bring down psf
2 get rid of ulu land
as much as i dislike some of their policies .. i always think our govt too smart ..
if this is what they planning to do ..they effectively kill 2 birds with 1 stone
1 bring down psf
2 get rid of ulu land
3 birds ..... 3. generate even more revenue from land sale.
devilplate
25-05-10, 01:18
Why would the government even want to bring down the HEADLINE PSF?
In fact, the government should bring up (not down) the HEADLINE PSF to make voters feel even richer since the General Election is coming.
Recently I met some relatives. One family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $550,000. Another family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $450,000 (as for why this one went up less, our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" will be able to explain better).
There are many many such happy families in Singapore.
A voter who feels rich is more likely to vote for the Government. Just ask me!
i agree with u...those will make paper gains from being a stakeholder will vote for PAP.
however, younger generations and those sour grapes/losers watever u call them, they will try for opposition...they tot tat opposition will help to make their life better mah...every man will always blame everyone else for their failures in life except themselves.
so perhaps by bringing down the headline PSF, mabe sway 'others' to vote for them as well...:D
bargain hunter
25-05-10, 02:04
bring down headline psf of course to win more voters lah! bringing down headline land sale price psf of very ulu location (becoz media has been hogging those beside mrt locations going for 500psf) doesn't hurt the psf of already completed properties what. what are you talking about? :doh:
Why would the government even want to bring down the HEADLINE PSF?
In fact, the government should bring up (not down) the HEADLINE PSF to make voters feel even richer since the General Election is coming.
Recently I met some relatives. One family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $550,000. Another family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $450,000 (as for why this one went up less, our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" will be able to explain better).
There are many many such happy families in Singapore.
A voter who feels rich is more likely to vote for the Government. Just ask me!
bargain hunter
25-05-10, 02:07
3 birds ..... 3. generate even more revenue from land sale.
4 birds, 4. win more votes by satisfying those who complain about lack of more affordable housing as well.
bring down headline psf of course to win more voters lah! bringing down headline land sale price psf of very ulu location (becoz media has been hogging those beside mrt locations going for 500psf) doesn't hurt the psf of already completed properties what. what are you talking about? :doh:
What I am thinking of is that if even the super ulu land tender at 450 psf and condos eventually sell at 800+ psf, won't that be even better for those located near MRTs?
Then HDB flats will start crossing above the $1 million mark en masse, making many happy families feel very happy just in time for the General Election. :p
if super ulu get at 300psf and sell at 500+ or 600+psf is as good as cooling already. that would have succeeded in bringing down headline psf even if location is much different. as devilplate says, if 450psf for land and sell at 800+psf, then it shows the cooling didn't work.
let's observe the sales for The Minton (is it previewing this weekend?) to see if the good momentum has been maintained. :)
Right! Let's not be confused with this statement. Bargain Hunter is saying the govt is smart to sell mostly ulu land for coming quarter because that would lower the overall PSF in the Property Market Index, regardless of location. It's an act to pacify those ST complainers who say there are no affordable housing in SG when there are aplenty in the North, North-East and far West. The govt has told them to be realistic at one point. I applaud the govt's actions this time as the increase in land supply will only bring about RECORD pricing in OCR locations while causing a drop in the PMI. Buyers who will buy ulu sembawang at $600k will ultimately become the pillar support for SG property market.
Good analysis! :)
one question......WILL BE A OVER SUPPLY IN COMING YEARS???? if that happen the price will dive again?
one question......WILL BE A OVER SUPPLY IN COMING YEARS???? if that happen the price will dive again?
It's a matter of controlling the tap. The govt's way of controlling the property market now is much more efficient and flexible than last time. Compared with harsher policies in the past, the govt now can turn off the tap when prices are about to plunge. In the past, they couldn't simply retract the laws they made, it makes us look like Malaysia!
Worry about over supply? Better worry about under supply in the years to come!
devilplate
25-05-10, 10:28
one question......WILL BE A OVER SUPPLY IN COMING YEARS???? if that happen the price will dive again?
did the ppty market ever crash due to oversupply...the answer is NO
even govt stop GLS land, developer build lesser homes...2008-09 ppty aso crash by 30-40% :D
as long developer sell off the plan b4 they build it...will not haf oversupply issue. Only last time HDB keep building flats b4 adopting BTO system and later on oversupply of HDB flats.
These are the silent 90% majority of voters vs the <10% vocal minority voters shouting for prices to come down (else they will not vote the PAP etc?) because they cannot afford a nice private property in the Central Region in mature estates near their parents houses! Ha ha ha! Go to the election box and see who win? :p
Why would the government even want to bring down the HEADLINE PSF?
In fact, the government should bring up (not down) the HEADLINE PSF to make voters feel even richer since the General Election is coming.
Recently I met some relatives. One family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $550,000. Another family was so happy that the HDB flat they bought for $100,000 many years ago is now worth $450,000 (as for why this one went up less, our in-house pollution expert "Regulators" will be able to explain better).
There are many many such happy families in Singapore.
A voter who feels rich is more likely to vote for the Government. Just ask me!
Bring down the HEADLINE PSF because previous headline psf is for central region and now the headline psf is dominated only for ulu places? (surely PSF must be lower than central region!) Makes sense. Score goals with both the silent 90% majority property owners and making the vocal angry 10% minority happier a bit that govt is doing something in their favor. :D
bring down headline psf of course to win more voters lah! bringing down headline land sale price psf of very ulu location (becoz media has been hogging those beside mrt locations going for 500psf) doesn't hurt the psf of already completed properties what. what are you talking about? :doh:
bargain hunter
25-05-10, 10:43
precisely, this is called, in hokkien, jia ga liao liao :D
a slight correction, don't even need central region, as long as lower than those newly sold land beside mrt locations is enough liao, they just want a headline land sale below 500psf. LOL.
Bring down the HEADLINE PSF because previous headline psf is for central region and now the headline psf is dominated only for ulu places? (surely PSF must be lower than central region!) Makes sense. Score goals with both the silent 90% majority property owners and making the vocal angry 10% minority happier a bit that govt is doing something in their favor. :D
did the ppty market ever crash due to oversupply...the answer is NO
I would like to support the above statement with a graph below.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/GeneralElectionPropertyPrice.jpg
These are the silent 90% majority of voters vs the <10% vocal minority voters shouting for prices to come down (else they will not vote the PAP etc?) because they cannot afford a nice private property in the Central Region in mature estates near their parents houses! Ha ha ha! Go to the election box and see who win? :p
Precisely.
The reason why the 90% majority are silent is because they don't want to be seen as greedy.
Can you imagine someone writing this in the Straits Times forums:
"My HDB flat has gone up from $100,000 to $550,000. My family is so happy but can the Government make it go up even more to $1 million? If my HDB flat valuation doesn't reach $1 million by the next General Election, my whole family will vote for the Opposition!"
Precisely.
The reason why the 90% majority are silent is because they don't want to be seen as greedy.
Can you imagine someone writing this in the Straits Times forums:
"My HDB flat has gone up from $100,000 to $550,000. My family is so happy but can the Government make it go up even more to $1 million? If my HDB flat valuation doesn't reach $1 million by the next General Election, my whole family will vote for the Opposition!"
It's too simplistic to say the Govt wants property prices to climb regardless of circumstances. MBT has made it clear that the policy is to have stable growth in property prices IN LINE with economic fundamentals. Apart from GDP growth, personal income growth forms part of the equation. If property prices continue to outstrip income growth in the LONG RUN, more people will be unable to afford homes. If HDB homes cost $1-1.5 million and private properties a few million dollars but average income remain at $4-5k a month, a few families will have to combine their salaries to share one home. In such a future, we will be going back to the past like in the 70s when MBT had to share one bedroom with 7 other people. Is this what is known as going retro?
It's too simplistic to say the Govt wants property prices to climb regardless of circumstances. MBT has made it clear that the policy is to have stable growth in property prices IN LINE with economic fundamentals. Apart from GDP growth, personal income growth forms part of the equation. If property prices continue to outstrip income growth in the LONG RUN, more people will be unable to afford homes. If HDB homes cost $1-1.5 million and private properties a few million dollars but average income remain at $4-5k a month, a few families will have to combine their salaries to share one home. In such a future, we will be going back to the past like in the 70s when MBT had to share one bedroom with 7 other people. Is this what is known as going retro?
if HDBs over 1mil happens, that day when not many can afford means they will start to rent, just like those big cities. Will we become the highest number of landlords in the world? :scared-4: MM units will be popular choice. Collect rental while we are greying and staying at retirement village. :p
Any wild guess which HDB will be the 1st cross 1 mil? i place my bet on Pinnacle.
proud owner
25-05-10, 23:22
if HDBs over 1mil happens, that day when not many can afford means they will start to rent, just like those big cities. Will we become the highest number of landlords in the world? :scared-4: MM units will be popular choice. Collect rental while we are greying and staying at retirement village. :p
Any wild guess which HDB will be the 1st cross 1 mil? i place my bet on Pinnacle.
but right now it seems almost all working adults own 1 unit ..some own 2 or more
will we have so many renters ?
It's too simplistic to say the Govt wants property prices to climb regardless of circumstances. MBT has made it clear that the policy is to have stable growth in property prices IN LINE with economic fundamentals. Apart from GDP growth, personal income growth forms part of the equation. If property prices continue to outstrip income growth in the LONG RUN, more people will be unable to afford homes. If HDB homes cost $1-1.5 million and private properties a few million dollars but average income remain at $4-5k a month, a few families will have to combine their salaries to share one home. In such a future, we will be going back to the past like in the 70s when MBT had to share one bedroom with 7 other people. Is this what is known as going retro?
In that scenario, at most lose some more votes from those who want to upgrade lor.
No big deal. Upgraders+newly weds = small % of voters. Who gives a shit about them??? Willing buyer = willing seller = more stamp duty.
Not everyone has the asspiration to upgrade. :sleep:
It's too simplistic to say the Govt wants property prices to climb regardless of circumstances. MBT has made it clear that the policy is to have stable growth in property prices IN LINE with economic fundamentals. Apart from GDP growth, personal income growth forms part of the equation. If property prices continue to outstrip income growth in the LONG RUN, more people will be unable to afford homes. If HDB homes cost $1-1.5 million and private properties a few million dollars but average income remain at $4-5k a month, a few families will have to combine their salaries to share one home. In such a future, we will be going back to the past like in the 70s when MBT had to share one bedroom with 7 other people. Is this what is known as going retro?
Fundamentals can catch up with property rise. When you talk about fundamentals, it's not only the GDP or your take home pay. It's about how strong Singapore is as a global city. With the two IRs and surging economy, Singapore undoubtedly becomes much stronger fundamentally. This justifies the increase of housing in SG. However, if the small percentage is being priced out of the market (newly wed) and they don't affect the masses, there will still be alot of buyers. Willing buyers = willing seller and thus the price trend continues. If there are no other buyers, then newly wed gets support, prices drop. It's all democratic, the majority wins.
but right now it seems almost all working adults own 1 unit ..some own 2 or more
will we have so many renters ?
if no renters then i hope there are more buyers, otherwise i am working off my arse for the bank :banghead:
devilplate
26-05-10, 14:30
if no renters then i hope there are more buyers, otherwise i am working off my arse for the bank :banghead:
even during sars period..there will be renters lah...just tat u goto accept lower rentals...i rem tat time whole unit 3rm flat only 800-900...so u can imagine the rentals for pte condos...haha
so morale of the story, just enuff ammo to pay 20% downpayment with no more spare cash better dun invest. if not really become a slave to ur hse and the bank during a long downturn which may happen de...touchwood la
bargain hunter
26-05-10, 14:36
agree, its important to stay invested for long term but have spare cash to tide over or average down should there be a downturn.
even during sars period..there will be renters lah...just tat u goto accept lower rentals...i rem tat time whole unit 3rm flat only 800-900...so u can imagine the rentals for pte condos...haha
so morale of the story, just enuff ammo to pay 20% downpayment with no more spare cash better dun invest. if not really become a slave to ur hse and the bank during a long downturn which may happen de...touchwood la
Fundamentals can catch up with property rise. When you talk about fundamentals, it's not only the GDP or your take home pay. It's about how strong Singapore is as a global city. With the two IRs and surging economy, Singapore undoubtedly becomes much stronger fundamentally. This justifies the increase of housing in SG. However, if the small percentage is being priced out of the market (newly wed) and they don't affect the masses, there will still be alot of buyers. Willing buyers = willing seller and thus the price trend continues. If there are no other buyers, then newly wed gets support, prices drop. It's all democratic, the majority wins.
Such arguments by you and Sabian are short sighted. It's not just about winning the next election. The government may not too preoccupied with very high end market because this is a segment that is targeted at the very rich, both locals and foreigners. But it must cater to Singaporeans' needs in the low to mid end market. What kind of fundamentals are you talking about that is not ultimately connected to take home pay? If people's pay doesn't rise in tandem with property prices in the long run, it will mean that fewer Singaporeans can afford to buy a home in the future. Those who can afford will be foreigners. And then what do we have? Another Dubai where foreign ownership of properties outnumber citizens in their own country?
even during sars period..there will be renters lah...just tat u goto accept lower rentals...i rem tat time whole unit 3rm flat only 800-900...so u can imagine the rentals for pte condos...haha
hee...ya man, worst scenario chao chao have a tenant to pay my interest while i service the principle amount, that should make my heart feel better.:sleep:
proud owner
26-05-10, 22:16
hee...ya man, worst scenario chao chao have a tenant to pay my interest while i service the principle amount, that should make my heart feel better.:sleep:
ideally lah
but hor i know of some owner at Suites@central .. their mortgage 7k ..rental only 5k
but their unit marked to market has capital gain lah ..just that he cant sell cos no one wants to pay high price and collect 5k a mth for another year .. when monthly loan repayment is 7k and higher
Wild Falcon
26-05-10, 22:23
Actually from my experience, if you take shorter loan tenure, very tough for rental to cover principal repayment + interest + maintenance completely. I have a rental property which fetches close to 5% yield but still cannot cover principal instalment + interest + maintenance with a shortfall of few hundred dollars a month. As long as can cover interest and maintenance and subtantial part of principal repayment, it's considered good yield already. But I think 2k shortfall is too much lah....
ideally lah
but hor i know of some owner at Suites@central .. their mortgage 7k ..rental only 5k
but their unit marked to market has capital gain lah ..just that he cant sell cos no one wants to pay high price and collect 5k a mth for another year .. when monthly loan repayment is 7k and higher
proud owner
26-05-10, 22:35
Actually from my experience, if you take shorter loan tenure, very tough for rental to cover principal repayment + interest + maintenance completely. I have a rental property which fetches close to 5% yield but still cannot cover principal instalment + interest + maintenance with a shortfall of few hundred dollars a month. As long as can cover interest and maintenance and subtantial part of principal repayment, it's considered good yield already. But I think 2k shortfall is too much lah....
my agent friend told me there are many such cases where rental cannot cover mortgage ..
she mentioned a few projects ..but not convenient to say here ..i sure kana humtum
anyway .. she said those new condos TOP around May ..usually do well in terms of rent becos JUN-JULY period usually see more foreign renters (if any) ..
Wild Falcon
26-05-10, 22:55
To cover mortgage fully would be a challenge. In my case, the rental can cover the mortgage fully but not the maintenance. So when I bought my property, I forgot to impute the maintenance and thought everything will be covered fully! Super blur....Anyway, for those projects with only 3% yield or so, the rental is unlikely be able to cover full mortgage repayment. But seriously, owners must be prepared to foot part of the "principal" repayment which may translate to capital gains in the future. Which stupid tenant will pay up your entire house for you right? He might as well buy the whole place himself if he is prepared to pay principal + interest? Theoretically, even if your property value stays stagnant, as long as your rental yield exceed interest rate by a significant margin above your hurdle rate, it's a decent deal for you already. Your principal payments is capital in nature.
my agent friend told me there are many such cases where rental cannot cover mortgage ..
she mentioned a few projects ..but not convenient to say here ..i sure kana humtum
anyway .. she said those new condos TOP around May ..usually do well in terms of rent becos JUN-JULY period usually see more foreign renters (if any) ..
To cover mortgage fully would be a challenge. In my case, the rental can cover the mortgage fully but not the maintenance. So when I bought my property, I forgot to impute the maintenance and thought everything will be covered fully! Super blur....Anyway, for those projects with only 3% yield or so, the rental is unlikely be able to cover full mortgage repayment. But seriously, owners must be prepared to foot part of the "principal" repayment which may translate to capital gains in the future. Which stupid tenant will pay up your entire house for you right? He might as well buy the whole place himself if he is prepared to pay principal + interest? Theoretically, even if your property value stays stagnant, as long as your rental yield exceed interest rate by a significant margin above your hurdle rate, it's a decent deal for you already. Your principal payments is capital in nature.
That's right.
Why should the tenants be paying the principal portion as well?
The owners should pay the principal portion of the mortgage installment since that is their own investment, while the tenants take care of the interest (which is the opportunity cost of capital).
So long as rental covers the interest and maintenance, it is a good deal.
I cannot understand those people who want the tenant to cover the entire monthly installment inclusive of both principal and interest.
Then the tenant may as well buy the property themselves.
Having said that, it is a bonus to have the tenants cover the entire installments (as in my case) because my properties were bought quite cheap.
It depends on how much downpayment was made - if it's the standard 20% and the loan is spread over 15 years - low chance that rental can cover everything.
If it's 50% and spread over, say, 20 years - there may even be profit in the making.
It depends on how much downpayment was made - if it's the standard 20% and the loan is spread over 15 years - low chance that rental can cover everything.
If it's 50% and spread over, say, 20 years - there may even be profit in the making.
"profit" is very difficult to define.
If the downpayment is 50%, then the investor could have bought 2.5 properties with that downpayment instead, if he had taken 80% loan.
Due to the leveraging effect, he would have enjoyed 2.5 times the capital gain (but also 2.5 times the loss if the market turned down).
Nevertheless, given the long term effect of PROPERTISM, the long term probability of gain should exceed the long term probability of loss.
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
devilplate
26-05-10, 23:50
"profit" is very difficult to define.
If the downpayment is 50%, then the investor could have bought 2.5 properties with that downpayment instead, if he had taken 80% loan.
Due to the leveraging effect, he would have enjoyed 2.5 times the capital gain (but also 2.5 times the loss if the market turned down).
Nevertheless, given the long term effect of PROPERTISM, the long term probability of gain should exceed the long term probability of loss.
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
every1 shd exercise prudence....anyway many r greedy de...tats y we will have ppty price crashing in every cycle....if everyone like jlrx...ppty will nvr crash :D
every1 shd exercise prudence....anyway many r greedy de...tats y we will have ppty price crashing in every cycle....if everyone like jlrx...ppty will nvr crash :D
That's right. Prudence is the key.
Property investment should be an "entertainment" and not "life changing".
Some people leverage themselves so much that it becomes a "life changing" activity. They are actually making use of properties to propel themselves into the next rung in the economic ladder! :scared-4:
That's very dangerous :tsk-tsk: because if the market turns then it can become "life changing" in the other direction.
Someone who overleveraged will not be able to practise PROPERTISM with calm and composure due to short term market fluctuations.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1vjipzMLvlM/SgHT6QeIOAI/AAAAAAAAAAs/GQxZ4qHCYU8/s200/Buddah_at_Wesak.jpg
They will have a tendency to take short term profits, or to panic and throw in the towel due to the slightest setback. :tsk-tsk:
http://www.tripatourium.com/Images/BlotterArt/Gallery/panicattack.png
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
Such arguments by you and Sabian are short sighted. It's not just about winning the next election. The government may not too preoccupied with very high end market because this is a segment that is targeted at the very rich, both locals and foreigners. But it must cater to Singaporeans' needs in the low to mid end market. What kind of fundamentals are you talking about that is not ultimately connected to take home pay? If people's pay doesn't rise in tandem with property prices in the long run, it will mean that fewer Singaporeans can afford to buy a home in the future. Those who can afford will be foreigners. And then what do we have? Another Dubai where foreign ownership of properties outnumber citizens in their own country?
Even if the average pay does not rise in tandem with property prices, that doesn't mean the locals can't afford a property. I've mentioned before that in comparison with other countries, the ratio of our pay going out to home mortgage is very low, albeit higher than the crap international standard of 30%. How affordable is affordable? 20% of your pay or 50%? It's subjective. Of course if you are newly wed and doesn't have any saving to begin with, or peanut saving, then I would say it's understandable why complaining is your full time job now. Majority still wins. The market will price itself down if the majority can't afford and your complaining is no use here.
In addition, note the part where I said majority wins (democracy). Newly wed with low pay are not the majority. In SG, there are many more rich people than you and I.
Cheers :cheers1:
Even if the average pay does not rise in tandem with property prices, that doesn't mean the locals can't afford a property. I've mentioned before that in comparison with other countries, the ratio of our pay going out to home mortgage is very low, albeit higher than the crap international standard of 30%. How affordable is affordable? 20% of your pay or 50%? It's subjective. Of course if you are newly wed and doesn't have any saving to begin with, or peanut saving, then I would say it's understandable why complaining is your full time job now. Majority still wins. The market will price itself down if the majority can't afford and your complaining is no use here.
In addition, note the part where I said majority wins (democracy). Newly wed with low pay are not the majority. In SG, there are many more rich people than you and I.
Cheers :cheers1:
so many local millionaires rushing to buy condo now! This phenomenon has never happened before!
devilplate
27-05-10, 13:49
there r many who owns many ppty and still hold more den a mil in cash
This is so true. My friend just bought three 1.3m - 1.5m condo units with full cash and still has enough to pay for a lambo and renovate his two-storey terrace. He's in his late 20s. I have another friend who's 22 and earned his first million. My cousin who just graduated earns more than 20k/mth in Goldman. Even my old time buddy who holds only a poly cert earns about 6k/mth. I have at least 10-15 friends who made more than 500k from the US crisis. Sorry but I'm not disclosing anymore here. This is just to illustrate that Singaporeans are getting less nerdy and more successful!
and there was a sudden surge of people rushing to buy property after STI soared above 3000 after the US crisis...
Still think that's too good to be true? You're not alone. At least I felt so. But we have to admit we're no match for these people. Today Euro is surging ahead but I haven't made any moves yet. See what I mean?
During the lows, property was cheap. Had you made your move, you would have been rich instead of complaining. Frankly speaking, alot of people treat property like a cash cow and when they miss the low, they bang table and bag wall and write to ST or even ask the govt asking for help! Even if you are not an investor, everyone is trying to get the lowest to save some $$$. In reality, prices will keep rising and we are not at the peak yet. More peaks to come.
This is so true. My friend just bought three 1.3m - 1.5m condo units with full cash and still has enough to pay for a lambo and renovate his two-storey terrace. He's in his late 20s. I have another friend who's 22 and earned his first million. My cousin who just graduated earns more than 20k/mth in Goldman. Even my old time buddy who holds only a poly cert earns about 6k/mth. I have at least 10-15 friends who made more than 500k from the US crisis. Sorry but I'm not disclosing anymore here. This is just to illustrate that Singaporeans are getting less nerdy and more successful!
You should try posting this at this funny website called salary.sg.
You may get one of these responses:
1. You may be called a "forum troll".
2. A "Sultan of Brunei" may reply you that he has "Billions & billions".
3. An "Emperor of Syona To" may reply you that he has "Trillions".
4. Someone may express disbelief and ask you "what are more like the real salaries in SG at various stages"?
:scared-5:
devilplate
27-05-10, 16:46
Where Is the World’s Highest Concentration of Millionaires?
08.09.2008 September 5, 2008, 9:00 am
Where Is the World’s Highest Concentration of Millionaires?
The U.S. may have the largest number of millionaires, but tiny Singapore rules the world when it comes to the highest concentration.
http://s.wsj.net/media/singaporeparliament_art_200h_20080904214923.jpg
Singapore’s Parliament House (Via Wikipedia.org)
According to The Boston Consulting Group’s latest Global Wealth report, an astounding one in 10 households in Singapore have investible assets of $1 million or more. That compares with 4.3% in the U.S., which ranks sixth.
Singapore, of course, is very small–it has about a million households. And its 112,000 millionaires are dwarfed by the 4,884,000 millionaires in the U.S., according to Boston Consulting’s calculations.
Of course, wealth surveys, by nature, are imprecise, given the small sample sizes, the agendas of the surveyors and the difficulty of polling the rich. Still, they can offer insights into broader trends and directional changes with the wealthy.
If you want to know where to go to have the highest chance of bumping into a millionaire, here are the top five:
1 — Singapore — 10.6% 2 — Qatar — 7.9%
3 — Switzerland — 7.3%
4 — United Arab Emirates — 6.6%
5 — Kuwait — 5.3%
Interestingly, the chances of running into a millionaire are almost twice as high in the U.S. than in Saudi Arabia, which has a millionaire density of 2.2%.
As for cities with the largest number of millionaires, the report found that nine of the top 15 are in the U.S., with New York topping the list, followed by London, Tokyo, Los Angeles and Chicago.
So, given that there are only about 20% private properties in Singapore, looks like Singaporeans are un-invested in properties since 10% still have $1m (US$ or S$?) or more in investible assets (excluding properties).
Where Is the World’s Highest Concentration of Millionaires?
08.09.2008 September 5, 2008, 9:00 am
Where Is the World’s Highest Concentration of Millionaires?
The U.S. may have the largest number of millionaires, but tiny Singapore rules the world when it comes to the highest concentration.
http://s.wsj.net/media/singaporeparliament_art_200h_20080904214923.jpg
Singapore’s Parliament House (Via Wikipedia.org)
According to The Boston Consulting Group’s latest Global Wealth report, an astounding one in 10 households in Singapore have investible assets of $1 million or more. That compares with 4.3% in the U.S., which ranks sixth.
Singapore, of course, is very small–it has about a million households. And its 112,000 millionaires are dwarfed by the 4,884,000 millionaires in the U.S., according to Boston Consulting’s calculations.
Of course, wealth surveys, by nature, are imprecise, given the small sample sizes, the agendas of the surveyors and the difficulty of polling the rich. Still, they can offer insights into broader trends and directional changes with the wealthy.
If you want to know where to go to have the highest chance of bumping into a millionaire, here are the top five:
1 — Singapore — 10.6% 2 — Qatar — 7.9%
3 — Switzerland — 7.3%
4 — United Arab Emirates — 6.6%
5 — Kuwait — 5.3%
Interestingly, the chances of running into a millionaire are almost twice as high in the U.S. than in Saudi Arabia, which has a millionaire density of 2.2%.
As for cities with the largest number of millionaires, the report found that nine of the top 15 are in the U.S., with New York topping the list, followed by London, Tokyo, Los Angeles and Chicago.
You should try posting this at this funny website called salary.sg.
You may get one of these responses:
1. You may be called a "forum troll".
2. A "Sultan of Brunei" may reply you that he has "Billions & billions".
3. An "Emperor of Syona To" may reply you that he has "Trillions".
4. Someone may express disbelief and ask you "what are more like the real salaries in SG at various stages"?
:scared-5:
Different economic rung. we shouldn't go to those site full of negativity :p
just like pple in ferrari forum talking abt buying ANOTHER ferrari to keep for his collection. and i can only sigh with envy, not disbelief.
devilplate
27-05-10, 17:55
yo focus...none of the 4bedder DR hit 1100psf leh
Different economic rung. we shouldn't go to those site full of negativity :p
just like pple in ferrari forum talking abt buying ANOTHER ferrari to keep for his collection. and i can only sigh with envy, not disbelief.
Exactly, it's good to open up your eyes and see the world than live in denial.
Off track a bit, the Europeans are pretty darn good at that :doh:
yo focus...none of the 4bedder DR hit 1100psf leh
Aiyo.. u actually "stalking" my caveat? :P
Having buyer's remorse now.. shouldn't have paid so much for a 99lh but can only chant.. "Ppty prices always go up in the long run. Ppty should be bought, not sold".
Oh btw, I received email about Minton's Launch tomorrow..
DAMN Cheap..
Project Description
Developer : Kheng Leong Pte Ltd
Project : Proposed Condominium Development Comprising of 10 Blocks of 15 Storey & 8 Blocks of 17 Storey Condominium Development
Address : 2 to 14 Hougang Street 11
Tenure : L99 years from 27 July 2007
Site Area : Approx. 500,000 sq ft (about size of 7 football fields)
Total No. of Units : 1145 units
No. of Carpark Lots : 1151 lots
Expected T.O.P. : 30 June 2015 (in S&P)
Targeted Completion Date : 31 Dec 2013 (subject to construction progressively)
Architect : DP Architects Pte Ltd
Interior Designer : Index Design Pte Ltd
Beautiful Landscape Garden in 3 Worlds - Wellness / Tranquil / Fun
Wellness World Tranquil World Fun World
- 50m Lap Pool - Cascading Waterfall - Badminton Dome (Indoor aircon)
- 90sqm Chipping Green - Library - Water Playground & Kids Pool
- Sun Decks - Relaxation Island - Dining Cabana
- 20m Heated Pool - Garden of Botanical Giants - Main Pool
- Jogging Trails - Tiger Orchid Pavillion - Pool Side Deck
- "Alice in Wonderland" Croquet Lawn - Amazonian Lily Pond - Grand Clubhouse
- Fitness Stations - Comtemporary Bridge function room
- Sky Terraces - Green Cabana yoga room
His & Hers Gym & Onsen Spas billiard & table soccer room
Hydro Massage karaoke room
Jacuzzi band room
Steams Room piano room
games room
Children's Palyground -
- 3 BBQ Pits
- Rock "N" Log Outdoor Chess Set
- Tennnis Court
- Dining Pavillion / BBQ
- BBQ Zones
- Treehouse Playground
1 BEDROOM
Stack 44 (2nd flr) : $560,000 ($800psf)
(8th flr) : $561,000 ($899psf)
(17th flr) : $606,000 ($971psf)
Stack 45 (2nd flr) : $494,000 ($752psf)
(8th flr ) : $495,000 ($902psf)
(16th flr) : $535,000 ($974psf)
Stack 61 (3rd flr ) : $602,000 ($848psf)
(5th flr) : $608,000 ($856psf)
Stack 67 (3rd flr) : $602,000 ($848psf)
$608,000 ($856psf)
2 BEDROOM
Stack 05 (3rd flr) : $766,000 ($774psf)
(8th flr) : $844,000 ($853psf)
(14th flr): $892,000 ($901psf)
Stack 08 (2nd flr) : $797,000 ($813psf)
(8th flr) : $841,000 ($858psf)
(14th flr) : $889,000 ($907psf)
Stack 22 (2nd flr) : $846,000 ($855psf)
(8th flr) : $890,000 ($899psf)
(14th flr) : $938,000 ($947psf)
Stack 23 (2nd flr) : $797,000 ($813psf)
(8th flr) : $841,000 ($858psf)
(14th flr) : $889,000 ($907psf)
Stack 46 (3rd flr) : $762,000 ($814psf)
(8th flr) : $798,000 ($853psf)
(16th flr): $862,000 ($921psf)
Stack 74 (2nd flr) : $821,000 ($838psf)
(8th flr) : $865,000 ($883psf)
(16th flr) : $929,000 ($948psf)
Stack 75 (2nd flr) : $837,000 ($854psf)
(8th flr) : $881,000 ($899psf)
(16th flr) : $945,000 ($964psf)
2 + STUDY
Stack 16 (2nd flr) : $886,000 ($799psf)
(8th flr) : $930,000 ($839psf)
(14th flr) : $978,000 ($882psf)
Stack 54 (2nd flr) : $895,000 ($823 psf)
(8th flr) : $939,000 ($864psf)
(16th flr) : $1,003,000 ($923psf)
Stack 55 (2nd flr) : $904,000 ($832 psf)
(8th flr) : $948,000($872psf)
(16th flr) : $1,012,000 ($931psf)
DUAL KEY
Stack 07 (2nd flr) : $1,088,000 ($749psf)
(8th flr) : $1,200,000 ($826psf)
(14th flr) : $1,272,000 ($875psf)
Stack 12 (2nd flr) : $1,088,000 ($749psf)
(8th flr) : $1,200,000 ($826psf)
(14th flr) : $1,272,000 ($875psf)
3 BEDROOM
Stack 06 (3rd flr) : $962,000 ($791psf)
(8th flr) : $1,010,000 ($831psf)
(14th flr) : $1,070,000 ($880psf)
Stack 09 (2nd flr): $1,010,000 ($831psf)
(8th flr): $1,070,000 ($880psf)
(14th flr): $1,130,000 ($929psf)
Stack 10 (2nd flr) : $1,010,000 ($831psf)
(8th flr) : $1,070,000 ($880psf)
(14th flr) : $1,130,000 ($921psf)
Stack 70 (2nd flr) : $991,000 ($815psf)
(8th flr) : $1,051,000 ($864psf)
(16th flr) : $1,131,000 ($930psf)
Stack 71 (2nd flr) : $1,010,000 ($831psf)
(8th flr) : $1,070,000 ($880psf)
(16th flr) : $1,150,000 ($946psf)
3 (PREMIUM) BEDROOM
Stack 61 (2nd flr) : $1,016,000 ($767psf)
(8th flr) : $1,134,000 ($849psf)
(16th flr) : $1,214,000 ($909psf)
Stack 67 (2nd flr): $1,037,000 ($783psf)
(8th flr): $1,146,000 ($858psf)
(16th flr): $1,226,000 ($918psf)
Stack 68 (2nd flr) : $1,090,000 ($823psf)
(8th flr) : $1,146,000 ($866psf)
(16th flr) : $1,226,000 ($926psf)
3 + STUDY
Stack 29 (2nd flr) : $1,176,000 ($786psf)
(8th flr) : $1,274,000 ($852psf)
(14th flr) : $1,346,000 ($900psf)
Stack 30 (2nd flr): $1,152,000 ($770psf)
(8th flr): $1,250,000 ($836psf)
(14th flr): $1,322,000 ($884psf)
4 BEDROOM
Stack 39 (2nd flr) : $1,306,000 ($788psf)
(8th flr) : $1,392,000 ($840psf)
(14th flr) : $1,482,000 ($894psf)
Stack 40 (2nd flr): $1,305,000 ($744psf)
(8th flr): $1,391,000 ($793psf)
(14th flr): $1,481,000 ($844psf)
devilplate
27-05-10, 20:16
1 bedder psf not high...only 50psf more...
how accurate is the pricing? hmm...tmr i must go down kapo liao :D
1 bedder psf not high...only 50psf more...
how accurate is the pricing? hmm...tmr i must go down kapo liao :D
Should be accurate.. just received it from ERA marketing agent.
Ya, probably will go down to take a look too. Got a lot of facilities and landscaping... should be very nice.
Different economic rung. we shouldn't go to those site full of negativity :p
just like pple in ferrari forum talking abt buying ANOTHER ferrari to keep for his collection. and i can only sigh with envy, not disbelief.
Maybe we should go to the Ferrari forum and post some rubbish like "LIAR!" or "It will CRASH if you drive too fast!"
:p
Maybe we should go to the Ferrari forum and post some rubbish like "LIAR!" or "It will CRASH if you drive too fast!"
:p
I don't think we need to do that.. the car will auto-burn by itself if they drive too fast.. keke... or drive too slow on a hot day...hmm...
Or is it more common for the lamb?
Should be accurate.. just received it from ERA marketing agent.
Ya, probably will go down to take a look too. Got a lot of facilities and landscaping... should be very nice.
You just bought Dakota Residences and now looking at Minton?
Are you trying to use up your $6 million?
http://watchtv.infinitecoolness.com/sixmilliondollarman.jpg
1 bedder psf not high...only 50psf more...
how accurate is the pricing? hmm...tmr i must go down kapo liao :D
This project still have planters & bay windows leh. After lunch will go & KP as well.:cool:
You just bought Dakota Residences and now looking at Minton?
Are you trying to use up your $6 million?
maybe focus wants to compare DR & Minton, 'self steam' a bit as to what Minton has to offer for the same amount he paid for DR.. haha :p
I don't think we need to do that.. the car will auto-burn by itself if they drive too fast.. keke... or drive too slow on a hot day...hmm...
Or is it more common for the lamb?
recent ones all lumbos ~ :D
devilplate
28-05-10, 00:15
Minton damn heng....global stocks rebounds....sentiment definitely improves overnight
their pricing looks reasonable(similar pricing as treehouse)...shd expect good response...heard from agts some units r sold oredi for those wif chq submitted. good for self stay as i m impressed by the facilities...can i say probably the best in SG as far? maintenance for 1bedder is $190
investment wise...:beats-me-man:
bargain hunter
28-05-10, 00:20
good, so many forumers to provide sales response data tomorrow for The Minton. :)
maybe focus wants to compare DR & Minton, 'self steam' a bit as to what Minton has to offer for the same amount he paid for DR.. haha :p
Nothing to compare man..
Minton is so freaking big with 3 different landscapes and full condo facilities plus BADMINTON Court somemore.
But.. parents like DR.. so that one is priceless.
recent ones all lumbos ~ :D
ya.. i remember now...
LAMBs are the one that get burned regularly..
Prancing Horses are the one that get crashed regularly.
But both sets of owners will just walk away unharm and take pictures to show to their friends for a good laugh... that's R.I.C.H.
You just bought Dakota Residences and now looking at Minton?
Are you trying to use up your $6 million?
Haha.. no no.. I am just looking around.. I subscribe to your religion.. You not happy? :)
Regulators
28-05-10, 14:44
u mean u still staying with ur parents and havent bought a place?
Haha.. no no.. I am just looking around.. I subscribe to your religion.. You not happy? :)
u mean u still staying with ur parents and havent bought a place?
single mah, stay with parents ok what ~~ :o
Wild Falcon
28-05-10, 17:32
The facilities must be analysed in relation to the number of units. It's close to 1200 units - which means unless it has 2-3x the facilties of a normal 300-400 unit condo, it is actually more cramped. 3x means it needs to have5 tennis courts, 2.5 size olympic pool, 3 gyms etc. Or else, or the facilities will be jam packed, rendering them useless.
Minton damn heng....global stocks rebounds....sentiment definitely improves overnight
their pricing looks reasonable(similar pricing as treehouse)...shd expect good response...heard from agts some units r sold oredi for those wif chq submitted. good for self stay as i m impressed by the facilities...can i say probably the best in SG as far? maintenance for 1bedder is $190
investment wise...:beats-me-man:
devilplate
28-05-10, 18:55
The facilities must be analysed in relation to the number of units. It's close to 1200 units - which means unless it has 2-3x the facilties of a normal 300-400 unit condo, it is actually more cramped. 3x means it needs to have5 tennis courts, 2.5 size olympic pool, 3 gyms etc. Or else, or the facilities will be jam packed, rendering them useless.
tats ur perception nia...they offer wide range of facilities...its impossible to have such range of facilities for wat ...300-500units...how is it possible..so there is always a trade off
i deemed it as attractive...i am sure many bot it due to tat aspect
Wild Falcon
28-05-10, 20:18
But I suspect some of the facilities sound nice but are actually quite useless one lor. Most importantly is still large pool and large gym (and equipment) and more tennis courts... From my experience, pool and gym can get crowded in large developments of 600 units - sometimes go to gym need to queue for treadmill! And tennis courts gets popular during weekend evening time. As long as everything is triple that of a 400 unit condo, then facilities should be adequate. Or else, pool and gym will be packed one. Anyway, you were mentioning the showflat is crowded? Looks like you're still actively monitoring the market :) So much ammo!
tats ur perception nia...they offer wide range of facilities...its impossible to have such range of facilities for wat ...300-500units...how is it possible..so there is always a trade off
i deemed it as attractive...i am sure many bot it due to tat aspect
devilplate
28-05-10, 20:31
Looks like you're still actively monitoring the market :) So much ammo!
jobless mah...vy free lor
visit showflat become my past time hobby haha
u mean u still staying with ur parents and havent bought a place?
Nothing wrong with staying with parents. I think parents will like their children to be around them when they are old. :)
Sure anot? With the number of properties you owned now, think this is your full-time job liao! :D
jobless mah...vy free lor
visit showflat become my past time hobby haha
jobless mah...vy free lor
visit showflat become my past time hobby haha
go and be agent lah, kill 2 birds with one stone ~
jobless mah...vy free lor
visit showflat become my past time hobby haha
Jobless still going around buying so many properties! :scared-4:
Even the "jobless" people in this forum are different from the "jobless" people in other forums. :scared-5:
devilplate
28-05-10, 23:13
go and be agent lah, kill 2 birds with one stone ~
once i become an agt, my comments will be like 2nd calven ng:D
Nothing wrong with staying with parents. I think parents will like their children to be around them when they are old. :)
i also hoping my kid will buy a place when he grows up & have us old folks sticking around :p
Not 3 gym - As a rule of thumb, 150 units got at least 2 treadmills. So 1200 units need to have at least 16 treadmills!
Again, as a rule of thumb, 150 units got at least 1 tennis court. 1200 units need to have at least 8 tennis courts!
Do they have 16 treadmills in their gym and 8 tennis courts? :D
The facilities must be analysed in relation to the number of units. It's close to 1200 units - which means unless it has 2-3x the facilties of a normal 300-400 unit condo, it is actually more cramped. 3x means it needs to have5 tennis courts, 2.5 size olympic pool, 3 gyms etc. Or else, or the facilities will be jam packed, rendering them useless.
once i become an agt, my comments will be like 2nd calven ng:D
Not necessarily.
xebay11 also becomes agent but he is "friendly agent".
one question......WILL BE A OVER SUPPLY IN COMING YEARS???? if that happen the price will dive again?
See latest review by TODAY newspaper:
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC100528-0000057/Are-we-headed-for-a-housing-glut?
Quoted:"You do the math. The land supply for this year will be at least 14,400 units."
Is that a problem with the pricy HDB DBSS having >4 people vying for 1 unit? These will spill over to absorb up the mostly OCR suburb units make available by the Govt in these 14,400 units. (the over-heated demands for mass-market private properties is not prompted the Govt to release so many units in the first place).
See latest review by TODAY newspaper:
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC100528-0000057/Are-we-headed-for-a-housing-glut?
Quoted:"You do the math. The land supply for this year will be at least 14,400 units."
devilplate
29-05-10, 23:02
oversupply story just a crap
in every bull run, 'experts' will bring it out and tok cork
See latest review by TODAY newspaper:
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC100528-0000057/Are-we-headed-for-a-housing-glut?
Quoted:"You do the math. The land supply for this year will be at least 14,400 units."
I have read many strange articles but nothing even comes close to this one. :scared-4:
Are we headed for a housing glut?
...
Last year, we had about 1.1 million households in Singapore. If we apply the 22-per-cent finding, this means there would be 242,000 households actively seeking to buy a property within the next two years. That is a lot of buying potential. Even if we were to take just one-fifth :scared-4::confused: of this to allow for a very high margin of error:scared-4::confused: , that is still 48,400 households.
...
Will it all come to grief eventually? You do the math.:scared-4::confused: The capacity to occupy the homes is only 8,700 units per annum (average for past decade). The land supply for this year will be at least 14,400 units. :scared-4::confused: The remaining owners will have to find other better uses for their homes when completed.:scared-4::confused:
Colin Tan is Head, Research and Consultancy, Chesterton Suntec International.
From 242,000 actively seeking to buy a property within the next two years, it becomes 48,400 and that's just to allow for a "high margin of error" :confused: instead of "humongous margin of error"? :scared-5:
I thought that the general rule of thumb is that a "margin of error" should be smaller than the value? :confused:
What would you make of a statement like "average life expectancy of Singaporeans is 80 years old but could be one-fifth hence you should reasonably expect to live to 16 years old, to allow for a high margin of error"? :confused:
devilplate
30-05-10, 12:05
I have read many strange articles but nothing even comes close to this one. :scared-4:
Are we headed for a housing glut?
...
Last year, we had about 1.1 million households in Singapore. If we apply the 22-per-cent finding, this means there would be 242,000 households actively seeking to buy a property within the next two years. That is a lot of buying potential. Even if we were to take just one-fifth :scared-4::confused: of this to allow for a very high margin of error:scared-4::confused: , that is still 48,400 households.
...
Will it all come to grief eventually? You do the math.:scared-4::confused: The capacity to occupy the homes is only 8,700 units per annum (average for past decade). The land supply for this year will be at least 14,400 units. :scared-4::confused: The remaining owners will have to find other better uses for their homes when completed.:scared-4::confused:
Colin Tan is Head, Research and Consultancy, Chesterton Suntec International.
From 242,000 actively seeking to buy a property within the next two years, it becomes 48,400 and that's just to allow for a "high margin of error" :confused: instead of "humongous margin of error"? :scared-5:
I thought that the general rule of thumb is that a "margin of error" should be smaller than the value? :confused:
What would you make of a statement like "average life expectancy of Singaporeans is 80 years old but could be one-fifth hence you should reasonably expect to live to 16 years old, to allow for a high margin of error"? :confused:
all based on sentiment...if market turns bad, 48400 shrinks to probably 2-3k...if market remains bullish, 48400 becomes 200000 and moreeeeee
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