View Full Version : Bayshore Park good investment
Given the huge land and beautiful environment Bayshore Park has to offer, would you consider buying this condo as your investment? Be it for rental or future en bloc possibility? After a recent viewing, we are amazed by their land size and the greenery it offers. Appreciate your views for its potential upside despite it being a 28 yrs old (well-maintained) leasehold project.
Given the huge land and beautiful environment Bayshore Park has to offer, would you consider buying this condo as your investment? Be it for rental or future en bloc possibility? After a recent viewing, we are amazed by their land size and the greenery it offers. Appreciate your views for its potential upside despite it being a 28 yrs old (well-maintained) leasehold project.
Depends.
En-bloc - over 1000 units, difficult to organise.
Size of development means price will be massive for any single developer.
Otherwise quite nice I think.... for living in.
for rental to expat - possible, en bloc - abit difficult.
alot of expats like the spacious compound :)
Regulators
30-06-10, 20:54
i was considering to plonk some spare cash into bayshore park once, so i have done some search about it. If you are buying for own stay and like no other project in that area, i have nothing else to comment. if you are buying from an investment perspective, the rental yield there is not fantastic as owners are selling very high (at future enbloc pricing). If you are those waiting to enbloc, i think can forget it as majority of the owners in bayshore park are rich 1st owners who bought their units at very low prices and are anti-enbloc. If you buy at current prices and hope to see gold from en bloc, you will at most get back at current prices and may even be giving up ur unit at a loss. Also imagine the committee trying to get more than 800 signatures, it will simply take ages for that to happen....
Thanks guys for your reply. Yes, Bayshore Park impresses me with a great sense of peace upon entering the compound, the vastness of land and surrounding greenery is really attractive to prospective buyers. What do you think of govt topping up the lease when it runs low?
Wild Falcon
01-07-10, 15:03
No government will top up the lease for you free lah. You mean Bayshore Park owners decide to foot the bill of topping up their own lease to 99 years? Chances are close to zero. It would be a subtantial sum of money and with 1000 households, there will be some who will refuse to foot the bill. Only hope is enbloc and the developer top up the lease and the owners move out. Either that or wait until the lease expire and move out. No chance of 1000 owners agree to pay $300k (assuming each unit worth $1m and 30/99*1m) each to topup lease back to 99 years.
Thanks guys for your reply. Yes, Bayshore Park impresses me with a great sense of peace upon entering the compound, the vastness of land and surrounding greenery is really attractive to prospective buyers. What do you think of govt topping up the lease when it runs low?
Yes, Bayshore Park boasts one of the best landscapped and spacious condo projects in Singapore. Although it is 27 years on in age, it is indeed very well maintained.
If you are thinking of buying for an en bloc, it is highly unlikely to succeed because of the sheer size of units. Also there is a very united, cohesive anti en bloc group of residents there, and its a well known fact that a sizeable amount of expatriates are actually owners there.
To "bite" at current prices, there is not much "meat" left should it ever goes en bloc. To buy to stay, its ok.
I bought a fantastic sea-view facing 1173 sq ft unit in June 2007 for $900k and had it rented out for $3k (4% yield) for almost 2.5 years to 2 pilots (a lot of pilots stay there). During the years, I attended en bloc meetings and there were a lot of squabblings and shoutings. My personal view is that it is near impossible to go en bloc.
In case you like to know, I sold my unit for $1.1m just 3 months back.
:)
Wild Falcon
01-07-10, 21:47
Buy to stay for few years can. But need to sell before it gets too old. Remember if enbloc is impossible, the lease will only run down and expire and the whole thing will be worthless. You have to sell before others realise that. And lease topup is not cheap - and i doubt you can ever get the entire 1000 households to top up the lease from 70 years to 99 years. Imagine paying off 1/3 of your property value to top it back up to 99 years - nobody will do that. They would rather sell and run road when it gets old.
devilplate
01-07-10, 21:57
lease top up may only be possible when lease expires....we shall see how govt gona come up with a solution to tat...so many LH ppty here, sure allow lease top up when expires...if not hell will break loose:D
by the way, does any1 knows how other countries deal with such thing? lease expires....den how? cannot be govt take back and the residents stay whr? all camp at changi beach meh? haha
lease top up shd based on the value of the land and not the value of the apt IMO
No government will top up the lease for you free lah. You mean Bayshore Park owners decide to foot the bill of topping up their own lease to 99 years? Chances are close to zero. It would be a subtantial sum of money and with 1000 households, there will be some who will refuse to foot the bill. Only hope is enbloc and the developer top up the lease and the owners move out. Either that or wait until the lease expire and move out. No chance of 1000 owners agree to pay $300k (assuming each unit worth $1m and 30/99*1m) each to topup lease back to 99 years.
$300k to last another 99 leases still ok! where to find another good property like this! :)
ah...that place also nice. Now I recalled some good old memory of sending my girlfriend home there during my student days! :D
Mandarin gardens
Yes, almost a carbon copy of Bayshore Park; land area a million sq ft, over 1000 units, also infightings as well...
Having said that, it boasts an olympic-sized swimming pool, numerous tennis courts and a very self-contained living environment consisting of a mini supermarket, a child care centre, a restaurant and even a video rental outfit.
In case you need to know, I dont own a unit there.
Wild Falcon
02-07-10, 10:36
Think about it, without the lease, the concrete walls are worthless. In short, if you rent a house, nothing belongs to you. It will actually cost more for the developer to tear down the whole darn thing than build a new one without the existing building. In short, from a new developer's/government's standpoint, the building is a LIABILITY, not an ASSET.
And of course govt should allow lease topup. Only question is, will 80% of the 1000 units agree to foot the bill and force the other 20% to pay up? Chances are ZERO. Only hope is enbloc and get the developer to do it - and better do it fast before the lease is 50 years old because the topup will be painful for developers - which mean it will eat into your enbloc proceeds.
lease top up may only be possible when lease expires....we shall see how govt gona come up with a solution to tat...so many LH ppty here, sure allow lease top up when expires...if not hell will break loose:D
by the way, does any1 knows how other countries deal with such thing? lease expires....den how? cannot be govt take back and the residents stay whr? all camp at changi beach meh? haha
lease top up shd based on the value of the land and not the value of the apt IMO
devilplate
02-07-10, 10:44
Think about it, without the lease, the concrete walls are worthless. In short, if you rent a house, nothing belongs to you. It will actually cost more for the developer to tear down the whole darn thing than build a new one without the existing building. In short, from a new developer's/government's standpoint, the building is a LIABILITY, not an ASSET.
And of course govt should allow lease topup. Only question is, will 80% of the 1000 units agree to foot the bill and force the other 20% to pay up? Chances are ZERO. Only hope is enbloc and get the developer to do it - and better do it fast before the lease is 50 years old because the topup will be painful for developers - which mean it will eat into your enbloc proceeds.
if cannot lease top up....den how...all chased out and stay whr? social problems....den govt how to sell 99LH land?? den wat happen to all other LH ppty...
Wild Falcon
02-07-10, 10:55
Enbloc lor - can't you see the Mandarin Gardens and the Bayshores have lots of infighting on enbloc? There will be a group of people who are "old" already and doesn't care if the lease expire (Group A) because they will die before it expires. Then another group who wants to enbloc NOW because they know they will lose out if they wait too long (Group B). But if a condo has a lot of Group A holding Group B on ransom, then jialat liao. Look at Farrer Park, all so clever and fall into the Group B group.
if cannot lease top up....den how...all chased out and stay whr? social problems....den govt how to sell 99LH land?? den wat happen to all other LH ppty...
devilplate
02-07-10, 11:04
in any case, i am sure most ppl here do not hold long term for 99LH ppty except for HDB flats
during last yr lows, i aso dare not touch ppty like international plaza...rather find FH or new 99LH ppty..lol
Someone told me about Bayshore enbloc potential before. He told me that eventually the old folks will pass away and it will be en-bloc. Question is just when. It is a natural process.
Enbloc lor - can't you see the Mandarin Gardens and the Bayshores have lots of infighting on enbloc? There will be a group of people who are "old" already and doesn't care if the lease expire (Group A) because they will die before it expires. Then another group who wants to enbloc NOW because they know they will lose out if they wait too long (Group B). But if a condo has a lot of Group A holding Group B on ransom, then jialat liao. Look at Farrer Park, all so clever and fall into the Group B group.
Yes, almost a carbon copy of Bayshore Park; land area a million sq ft, over 1000 units, also infightings as well...
Having said that, it boasts an olympic-sized swimming pool, numerous tennis courts and a very self-contained living environment consisting of a mini supermarket, a child care centre, a restaurant and even a video rental outfit.
In case you need to know, I dont own a unit there.
I owned 1 and sold.
Sure not easy to enbloc, 1000 units, high land cost.. And it will take times. The land has huge potential for price appreciation if the place transform...
Someone told me about Bayshore enbloc potential before. He told me that eventually the old folks will pass away and it will be en-bloc. Question is just when. It is a natural process.
Not easy though.. It not just about the 1000 owners.. The expectation of psf, the high cost for the huge land and risk to developer, etc..
I don't know the math, but with existing plot ratio at 2.8. It already far exceed the existing built up area. Furthermore it has good potential for 3.5 plot ratio. I believe developer can gain from this, even after top up to 99yr lease.
Someone told me about Bayshore enbloc potential before. He told me that eventually the old folks will pass away and it will be en-bloc. Question is just when. It is a natural process.
Hmm.... sounds logical. :cool:
The land has huge potential for price appreciation if the place transform...
Totally agree and I don't know of any other condo with this fantastic land space and distinguished address and location. Even if en bloc is slim, perhaps the attractiveness of this condo will boost the capital appreciation in times to come.
Wild Falcon
05-07-10, 22:11
How to appreciate when the lease run down? In 20 years time, unless Singapore property's skyrocket (which is unlikely because our government will rein in any exponential growth), you can be fairly sure the value 60-year-old Bayshore Park will go down because whoever who buys can only stay 30 years.
But I must say, the east coast has become a India enclaves of sort - very popular with Indians. So maybe some indian expats may buy albeit the short lease as the lease runs down to 30 years? Not sure if your goverment might do something about these Indian enclaves - the best is Meyer Road and Tanjong Rhu - really like Little India :)
******
East coast's sea view draws Indians
BY URVIJA BANERJI
THE Waterside, Laguna Park, Pebble Bay, Costa Rhu, Mandarin Gardens... these are just some of the condominiums that Indians flock to in Singapore.
Some of them, especially those that offer views of the sea off the East coast, can house more than 300 Indian families.
What is it that draws these Indians to this part of the island? Is it the view, the location or the proximity to others in the community?
Mrs Prabha Rao, who has been in Singapore for 10 years and has been living in the Waterside for eight years, admits: "I chose the East Coast because of the sea view. I also like the fact that East Coast Park is right next to us for our morning and evening walks."
Miss Manavi Sharma, who has been in Singapore for 17 years and has been living in Siglap for 14, sings praises of the facilities offered by the condominiums and neighbourhoods of the East:
"It's open, it's spacious and not that congested. There are a lot of facilities around the area, a lot of restaurants, good Indian restaurants, and good malls, such as Parkway Parade."
The proximity to the airport and the city centre via the East Coast Parkway (ECP) is also a plus factor.
Mr Kiran Deshpande, who has been in Singapore for 22 years and has been living in Mandarin Gardens for over 10 years, says: "I travel a lot and when I was choosing a place to stay, the proximity to the airport was very important at the time."
Though it may not be the deciding factor, living with hundreds of other Indians as neighbours has its advantages.
Mrs Rao says: "I don't miss India as much, because I have all my Indian friends just here. There's even an e-group for Indian Waterside residents and I can connect with all of the 200-plus Indian families that way."
Adds Miss Sharma: "You feel like you're back home. It's nice to go down and meet people who speak not only Hindi but also the different dialects. I'm half Maharashtrian so it's nice to go down and meet people who also speak Marathi."
So are there any downsides to living in the East?
Just one, according to Miss Sharma: "I think the only problem would be connectivity. I don't have an MRT nearby. The buses go everywhere but it just takes longer." The closest MRT station to Mandarin Gardens is Bedok, about 2km away.
This, however, is not a problem any longer for those staying in the Tanjong Rhu area. Since the new Stadium MRT station on the Circle Line opened in April, residents of the condominiums in that area - Pebble Bay, Costa Rhu and the Waterside among them - have seen their commute times shorten substantially.
Totally agree and I don't know of any other condo with this fantastic land space and distinguished address and location. Even if en bloc is slim, perhaps the attractiveness of this condo will boost the capital appreciation in times to come.
So long as they bring in the cash... We should welcome them with open arms.. Who knows.. Singapore in a few years time... the locals will be minority lor.. So... better respect them..... :scared-2:
you are foreigner ?
How to appreciate when the lease run down? In 20 years time, unless Singapore property's skyrocket (which is unlikely because our government will rein in any exponential growth), you can be fairly sure the value 60-year-old Bayshore Park will go down because whoever who buys can only stay 30 years.
But I must say, the east coast has become a India enclaves of sort - very popular with Indians. So maybe some indian expats may buy albeit the short lease as the lease runs down to 30 years? Not sure if your goverment might do something about these Indian enclaves - the best is Meyer Road and Tanjong Rhu - really like Little India :)
******
East coast's sea view draws Indians
BY URVIJA BANERJI
THE Waterside, Laguna Park, Pebble Bay, Costa Rhu, Mandarin Gardens... these are just some of the condominiums that Indians flock to in Singapore.
Some of them, especially those that offer views of the sea off the East coast, can house more than 300 Indian families.
What is it that draws these Indians to this part of the island? Is it the view, the location or the proximity to others in the community?
Mrs Prabha Rao, who has been in Singapore for 10 years and has been living in the Waterside for eight years, admits: "I chose the East Coast because of the sea view. I also like the fact that East Coast Park is right next to us for our morning and evening walks."
Miss Manavi Sharma, who has been in Singapore for 17 years and has been living in Siglap for 14, sings praises of the facilities offered by the condominiums and neighbourhoods of the East:
"It's open, it's spacious and not that congested. There are a lot of facilities around the area, a lot of restaurants, good Indian restaurants, and good malls, such as Parkway Parade."
The proximity to the airport and the city centre via the East Coast Parkway (ECP) is also a plus factor.
Mr Kiran Deshpande, who has been in Singapore for 22 years and has been living in Mandarin Gardens for over 10 years, says: "I travel a lot and when I was choosing a place to stay, the proximity to the airport was very important at the time."
Though it may not be the deciding factor, living with hundreds of other Indians as neighbours has its advantages.
Mrs Rao says: "I don't miss India as much, because I have all my Indian friends just here. There's even an e-group for Indian Waterside residents and I can connect with all of the 200-plus Indian families that way."
Adds Miss Sharma: "You feel like you're back home. It's nice to go down and meet people who speak not only Hindi but also the different dialects. I'm half Maharashtrian so it's nice to go down and meet people who also speak Marathi."
So are there any downsides to living in the East?
Just one, according to Miss Sharma: "I think the only problem would be connectivity. I don't have an MRT nearby. The buses go everywhere but it just takes longer." The closest MRT station to Mandarin Gardens is Bedok, about 2km away.
This, however, is not a problem any longer for those staying in the Tanjong Rhu area. Since the new Stadium MRT station on the Circle Line opened in April, residents of the condominiums in that area - Pebble Bay, Costa Rhu and the Waterside among them - have seen their commute times shorten substantially.
What's the consensus on Bayshore Park today?
I live in Bayshore Park and I'm happy as a clam. Every time I drive through the gate, I'm hit by this overwhelming sense of space and serenity. Clearly they didn't have the space constraints in the days they were developing Bayshore Park that they do now. I mean, it's ever so open here. And, I agree with earlier posts, it is well maintained.
But what's the general opinion about Bayshore Park now, in 2010. Bayshore Park: has-been or still as happening as ever?
Bayshore pk is great ! Is the AGM still as fiery and eventful between the 2 opposing camps ??? :ashamed1:
BAYSHORE PARK BAYSHORE ROADCondominium13,350,0003,326Strata1,007Jul-10
Wow!!
If I am correct, this is the 1st transaction that is done above $1000psf, and a penthouse to boot!!!!
BAYSHORE PARK BAYSHORE ROADCondominium13,350,0003,326Strata1,007Jul-10
Wow!!
If I am correct, this is the 1st transaction that is done above $1000psf, and a penthouse to boot!!!!
.............................
Sorry, let me re do it again...
Bayshore Park 3,326 sq ft sold for $3,350,000 $1007psf July 2010..
Bayshore Park with a distinguished bayshore road address and location still attracts many potential buyers despite being a 99 leasehold. We know of some buyers having more than 1 unit there and a friend of ours recently bought another unit as they are very confident of bayshore park investment.
We know of some buyers having more than 1 unit there and a friend of ours recently bought another unit as they are very confident of bayshore park investment.
Sorry guys I meant owners
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