View Full Version : Withdrawal of Letter of Option
Anybody know if seller can still pull out after signing the option to purchase to the buyer? The buyer hasn't excercised the option and we haven't banked in the cheque yet.
Anybody know if seller can still pull out after signing the option to purchase to the buyer? The buyer hasn't excercised the option and we haven't banked in the cheque yet.
has the date of the option expired? It can be terminated if the buyer fails to exercise before the agreed date - u need to discuss with your lawyers what happens...
what happened, got a much better offer?
Will expire in few days time. After signing, found that our neighbour sold at higher price weeks before. Also for sentimental reasons lah.. Hope that the buyer will let it lapse, which is quite unlikely.
Anybody know if seller can still pull out after signing the option to purchase to the buyer? The buyer hasn't excercised the option and we haven't banked in the cheque yet.
No way the seller can pull out unless the buyer consent in writing is given.
check ur option form
Nevertheless the price that you have agreed to sell is fair to you. I guess you have done yr sums etc already.
Unless the delta is much as it may means your agent "SABO" you.
Also, you may not get the same or more than yr neighbour
and worse what if yours stuck n cant sell.
Maybe good to move on.
Sorry just Kaypo and did not answer yr question.
:p
:spliff2:
Will expire in few days time. After signing, found that our neighbour sold at higher price weeks before. Also for sentimental reasons lah.. Hope that the buyer will let it lapse, which is quite unlikely.
Its called an `Option to Purchase', not `Option to Sell', so you can't pull out. This is to protect buyers from sellers like you.
Its called an `Option to Purchase', not `Option to Sell', so you can't pull out. This is to protect buyers from sellers like you.
Seller can pull out.
Then be prepared for buyer to buy another similar unit on the market, and then claim costs of the additional purchase from you, so if the unit is more expensive, you top up for the buyer lor.
Legally, in black and white, you can't.
Many other ways you can do it 'by left'.
Its called an `Option to Purchase', not `Option to Sell', so you can't pull out. This is to protect buyers from sellers like you.
Agreed!! :D
devilplate
09-07-10, 10:20
last yr, i bot a few firesale units. got 1 of the seller come and harass me. the agt and seller make up lots of stories and trying to get me not to exercise the option. seller claims he was in a state of mental breakdown when he was issuing the option to purchase. LOL....i say tok to my lawyer or buy back the option:tongue3:
.... or buy back the option:tongue3:
Buy back option is very kind already.
Kwai lan buyer will go out, buy another more expensive unit very similar to the seller's, and then get lawyer to claim back every additional cent spent to acquire the new property.
devilplate
09-07-10, 10:35
Buy back option is very kind already.
Kwai lan buyer will go out, buy another more expensive unit very similar to the seller's, and then get lawyer to claim back every additional cent spent to acquire the new property.
err...i not kind wor
i offer him a xxxk figure to buy back
Wild Falcon
09-07-10, 10:36
Be a man/woman of your words lah.
Anybody know if seller can still pull out after signing the option to purchase to the buyer? The buyer hasn't excercised the option and we haven't banked in the cheque yet.
Unlikely you can pull out. Does not matter you have banked in the cheque or not, basically once you signed and gave out the option the matter is out of your hands. Your best hope is the buyer do not exercise the option lor ~
bargain hunter
09-07-10, 11:00
if can anyhow back out just like that means real estate industry needs even more stricter rules to cover the "by left......."!
Be a man/woman of your words lah.
Wild Falcon
09-07-10, 11:09
I don't think there is much "by left" in thie case, unless he can argue that "consideration" has not been made (because he hasn't banked in the cheque) and therefore there is no "contract" in the first place. But I think chances are slim. But whatever it is, I always believe integrity is worth more than money. So if you have in principle agreed to sell at X price, just stick to your promise lor. Lots of people regret selling their house after they realise prices have gone up further, but they still stick to their words. Will you walk away had the price come down? Obviously not.
if can anyhow back out just like that means real estate industry needs even more stricter rules to cover the "by left......."!
I don't think there is much "by left" in thie case, unless he can argue that "consideration" has not been made (because he hasn't banked in the cheque) and therefore there is no "contract" in the first place. But I think chances are slim. But whatever it is, I always believe integrity is worth more than money. So if you have in principle agreed to sell at X price, just stick to your promise lor. Lots of people regret selling their house after they realise prices have gone up further, but they still stick to their words. Will you walk away had the price come down? Obviously not.
In case integrity fails...then the law steps in. And in this case, law is on the side of the buyer.
happened to my friend, seller banked in cheque and object later. this case had been dragged for years and lawyer still not able to claim damage from seller. don know lawyer not doing his job or wat. tot my friend's chance of winning should be very high since seller signed and banked in cheque......but my friend LL lor.....:banghead:
Squall8888
09-07-10, 11:47
Cannot pull out. Buyer will forcefully buy your unit. Any delay in the completion, the buyer can claim at 10% p.a. So if your unit cost 1 million, that is 100k.
Seller can pull out.
Then be prepared for buyer to buy another similar unit on the market, and then claim costs of the additional purchase from you, so if the unit is more expensive, you top up for the buyer lor.
devilplate
09-07-10, 11:48
happened to my friend, seller banked in cheque and object later. this case had been dragged for years and lawyer still not able to claim damage from seller. don know lawyer not doing his job or wat. tot my friend's chance of winning should be very high since seller signed and banked in cheque......but my friend LL lor.....:banghead:
change lawyer....clear cut case.
Squall8888
09-07-10, 11:49
Not really. Once the option is signed, it is a contract - regardless the cheque status. There was a case where option not signed but cheque deposited. Also consider sold. So we know either sign or bank in constitute a contract. Don't play with Singapore laws.
I don't think there is much "by left" in thie case, unless he can argue that "consideration" has not been made (because he hasn't banked in the cheque) and therefore there is no "contract" in the first place. But I think chances are slim. But whatever it is, I always believe integrity is worth more than money. So if you have in principle agreed to sell at X price, just stick to your promise lor. Lots of people regret selling their house after they realise prices have gone up further, but they still stick to their words. Will you walk away had the price come down? Obviously not.
well, if this guy sells his unit higher than his neighbour, then there is no question raised.....:hell-hath-no-fury:
devilplate
09-07-10, 12:35
morale of the story: PROPERTISM RULES?:D
Will expire in few days time. After signing, found that our neighbour sold at higher price weeks before. Also for sentimental reasons lah.. Hope that the buyer will let it lapse, which is quite unlikely.
hey, sorry i think it is not nice :tsk-tsk: that you withdrawed because you found out yr neighbour sold at a higher price? You should have reach a comfortable selling price before signing the Option to Purchase for the buyer right?
Sentimental? If your selling price is higher than your neighbour then you will not be so sentimental? :rolleyes:
Regulators
09-07-10, 14:25
did u find out how long ur neighbour took to market his unit? if you forego this sale, u may have to wait ages to find another buyer willing to offer u this price. if just 20k dif, forget it lah....if another buyer prepared to offer you 100k higher than what ur buyer offer, u may want to compensate him an amount from the 100k (maybe 10k or something and tell him not to exercise). of course u have to make sure the other buyer exercise before u compensate the 10k....
just my 2 cents
just move on with the sale and look for another nicer unit in the neighbourhood.
morale of the story: PROPERTISM RULES?:D
That's right.
One wouldn't have ended up with such a problem if one practises PROPERTISM.
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
If you never sell your properties, then you will never need to issue an option and you will never end up with such a dilemma.
I have long wanted to write in response to this point.
If you buy a property, sell, then buy 2, your gains actually doubled ! Of course there are other ways to achieve the same effect. But selling is not an inferior strategy. I have sold one and bought 3 before and the profits just tripled in the following years compared to if I only held on to just one!
Your sale should be a good one. Recent observation is that prices are showing signs of weakness. I suspect June prices will be lower than May's transacted. Did some high level checks - think this is true more than 50% of the time.
What is the meaning when we hit a historical high ? It meant it took more than 10 years for those who bought in 1996 to recover.
Good Luck!
devilplate
09-07-10, 17:23
I have long wanted to write in response to this point.
If you buy a property, sell, then buy 2, your gains actually doubled ! Of course there are other ways to achieve the same effect. But selling is not an inferior strategy. I have sold one and bought 3 before and the profits just tripled in the following years compared to if I only held on to just one!
Your sale should be a good one. Recent observation is that prices are showing signs of weakness. I suspect June prices will be lower than May's transacted. Did some high level checks - think this is true more than 50% of the time.
What is the meaning when we hit a historical high ? It meant it took more than 10 years for those who bought in 1996 to recover.
Good Luck!
u nid to be more careful on the debts:D
dksg probably had good timing.
the unfortunate ones might get caught in negative equity. or the third possibility, the value from the sold unit is 75% of the next unit if you sell too early in the up cycle. it can be pretty terrible to time the market. like i heard of some friends who sold in august/september last year.
I have long wanted to write in response to this point.
If you buy a property, sell, then buy 2, your gains actually doubled ! Of course there are other ways to achieve the same effect. But selling is not an inferior strategy. I have sold one and bought 3 before and the profits just tripled in the following years compared to if I only held on to just one!
Your sale should be a good one. Recent observation is that prices are showing signs of weakness. I suspect June prices will be lower than May's transacted. Did some high level checks - think this is true more than 50% of the time.
What is the meaning when we hit a historical high ? It meant it took more than 10 years for those who bought in 1996 to recover.
Good Luck!
A historical high can mean two things:
1. It is a repeat of 1996.
2. It is a repeat of 1990.
If it is a repeat of 1996, then the above strategy will make one a "hero".
If it is a repeat of 1990, then the above strategy will cause one to be permanently transferred to another forum called the "Straits Times Complainers' Forum", never to be seen and heard here again.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/PropertyMarketBreaksAllTimeHigh2.jpg
some bullish chartist call it breakout. others call it false break. frankly, it all depends on your personal bias. the picture you see is always tainted by the lens you wear in your mind.
devilplate
09-07-10, 22:21
best strategy is NOT to predict the market!
just accumulate on every dip! but i aso sell some along the way too...ops:D
Probably a middle path between selling and buying could be :-
If you have to sell the property for reasons known only to you, make sure you buy back the equivalent cost of a property within the next 3months and keep the profit.
Example, if you sell a property for $3mil and your cost price was only $1.5mil. Make sure you buy back a $1.5mil property immediately. So if ppty price go down short-term, you can buy more with your profit. If ppty price go up right after you sold, your replacement property will have some profit and you can still average up by buying another property using your spare cash.
devilplate
09-07-10, 23:00
Probably a middle path between selling and buying could be :-
If you have to sell the property for reasons known only to you, make sure you buy back the equivalent cost of a property within the next 3months and keep the profit.
Example, if you sell a property for $3mil and your cost price was only $1.5mil. Make sure you buy back a $1.5mil property immediately. So if ppty price go down short-term, you can buy more with your profit. If ppty price go up right after you sold, your replacement property will have some profit and you can still average up by buying another property using your spare cash.
yes...this is some of the pointers given by guru investors as well....equity cashout, cash flow blah blah...
but the problem is: most investors r greedy or butt itchy or no patience....once they sold their ppty and rec their proceeds, they tend to use up most of the cash they receive and ended up with a much much bigger debt...no self control:D tats y ppty price can crash:D
proud owner
09-07-10, 23:04
Probably a middle path between selling and buying could be :-
If you have to sell the property for reasons known only to you, make sure you buy back the equivalent cost of a property within the next 3months and keep the profit.
Example, if you sell a property for $3mil and your cost price was only $1.5mil. Make sure you buy back a $1.5mil property immediately. So if ppty price go down short-term, you can buy more with your profit. If ppty price go up right after you sold, your replacement property will have some profit and you can still average up by buying another property using your spare cash.
yes
this is the correct strategy ...
Regulators
09-07-10, 23:41
if you bought a pty at 1.5 mil in 2008 and sold it for 3 mil in 2010, how are you going to find another similar property in a similar location at 1.5 mil which is the 2008 price? the difficult part is when market is moving up, property prices everywhere goes up, so it is very unlikely to get a bargain anywhere.
Probably a middle path between selling and buying could be :-
If you have to sell the property for reasons known only to you, make sure you buy back the equivalent cost of a property within the next 3months and keep the profit.
Example, if you sell a property for $3mil and your cost price was only $1.5mil. Make sure you buy back a $1.5mil property immediately. So if ppty price go down short-term, you can buy more with your profit. If ppty price go up right after you sold, your replacement property will have some profit and you can still average up by buying another property using your spare cash.
Probably a middle path between selling and buying could be :-
If you have to sell the property for reasons known only to you, make sure you buy back the equivalent cost of a property within the next 3months and keep the profit.
Example, if you sell a property for $3mil and your cost price was only $1.5mil. Make sure you buy back a $1.5mil property immediately. So if ppty price go down short-term, you can buy more with your profit. If ppty price go up right after you sold, your replacement property will have some profit and you can still average up by buying another property using your spare cash.
if you bought a pty at 1.5 mil in 2008 and sold it for 3 mil in 2010, how are you going to find another similar property in a similar location at 1.5 mil which is the 2008 price? the difficult part is when market is moving up, property prices everywhere goes up, so it is very unlikely to get a bargain anywhere.
Regulators is right. If you sell your properties, even for a profit, your exposure to the property market becomes lower. It'll be good if the market corrects, but if the market continues to go up, the $1.5 million property plus cash can never provide the same amount of absolute returns as the $3 million property. It's a double-edged sword.
Therefore it's better not to sell properties in the first place.
Instead you can keep adding smaller and smaller properties to your portfolio.
That's what I'm doing nowadays but ironically their price is the same as the bigger properties I bought last time. :doh:
http://www.eb23-telheiras-2.rcts.pt/imagens/house_clipart_12.gifhttp://www.clipart.us.com/clipart/house/tn_0_house0004.gifhttp://www.ag-skiphire.co.uk/Images/clipart-house.gifhttp://www.int.gu.edu.au/images/house.gifhttp://www.ri3680.com/board/skin/skin_02/icon_r_home.gifhttp://mydisney.disney-bg.com/avatars/user_uploaded/Minnie_15.jpg
How about this method? Quite popular among those "gurus".
If you want to buy more properties and you have a fully paid up investment property. Do not sell your 1 paid up property. Do an equity financing to buy one more.
If you have a fully paid up $3mil ppty, loan max 50% of the value at 2-3% (right now?). Immediately buy a $1.5mil ppty with it (excl. misc. expenses).
devilplate
10-07-10, 02:21
How about this method? Quite popular among those "gurus".
If you want to buy more properties and you have a fully paid up investment property. Do not sell your 1 paid up property. Do an equity financing to buy one more.
If you have a fully paid up $3mil ppty, loan max 50% of the value at 2-3% (right now?). Immediately buy a $1.5mil ppty with it (excl. misc. expenses).
not advisable for fully paid primary residence..:D
Or then, how you guys do it? Just saved up till enough then pay for downpayment?
Most of what you guys mentioned is correct.
The secret to the successful investment is your personal judgment. But then this is not rocket science, it can be derived.
I cannot divulge too much in a public forum but for those keen to further discuss this, can pm me.
I can only say that buying a property and holding it infinitely is certainly the wrong strategy if you view property as a form of investment. If u use it as a hedge against inflation, maybe its workable, but then u must have a superior exit strategy, else depending on when u exit, you can still lose out.
Now, off to lunch then some showflats lo!
DKSG
Or then, how you guys do it? Just saved up till enough then pay for downpayment?
yalor... no short cut unless old man loaded... :(
Now, off to lunch then some showflats lo!
DKSG
where? recently got any interesting one? :southpark2:
devilplate
10-07-10, 12:57
yalor... no short cut unless old man loaded... :(
leverage stocks or futures is the only shortcut....but timing aso impt...be patient and wait for next 50% GSS! it will come...just be patient:D
leverage stocks or futures is the only shortcut....but timing aso impt...be patient and wait for next 50% GSS! it will come...just be patient:D
can teach me? i only know how to long stocks :ashamed1:
leverage stocks or futures is the only shortcut....but timing aso impt...be patient and wait for next 50% GSS! it will come...just be patient:D
Wow...50%.
I was thinking, if 20% drop already very jialat.
Since, I am a seller, as well as potential buyer, I really hope for stability of prices.
Wow...50%.
I was thinking, if 20% drop already very jialat.
Since, I am a seller, as well as potential buyer, I really hope for stability of prices.
when everything is so stable then where to find pockets of opportunity? market will be very boring....
when everything is so stable then where to find pockets of opportunity? market will be very boring....
OK...but 50% drop???
50% drop may be a tad too "exciting" for most, especially the elderly with weak hearts.:)
Property_Owner
11-07-10, 23:16
if you bought a pty at 1.5 mil in 2008 and sold it for 3 mil in 2010, how are you going to find another similar property in a similar location at 1.5 mil which is the 2008 price? the difficult part is when market is moving up, property prices everywhere goes up, so it is very unlikely to get a bargain anywhere.
I agree with you on this....
Property_Owner
11-07-10, 23:22
OK...but 50% drop???
50% drop may be a tad too "exciting" for most, especially the elderly with weak hearts.:)
Time to stock up again....:D :D
new2mondrian
12-07-10, 17:14
Most of what you guys mentioned is correct.
I can only say that buying a property and holding it infinitely is certainly the wrong strategy if you view property as a form of investment. If u use it as a hedge against inflation, maybe its workable, but then u must have a superior exit strategy, else depending on when u exit, you can still lose out.
Absolutely agree. As with all investments, there must be an entry/exit strategy and constant repositioning of the investment portfolio. Just sold off a property for $70k above valuation; and bought a 13 year old FH 1200 sqft unit along South Buona Vista road (opp NUS and near the Village) for $850K ($50K below valuation), with money left to rollover to finance another property. Constant repositioning is key. Cannot simply hold on to something indefinitely without selling anything.
devilplate
12-07-10, 17:23
Absolutely agree. As with all investments, there must be an entry/exit strategy and constant repositioning of the investment portfolio. Just sold off a property for $70k above valuation; and bought a 13 year old FH 1200 sqft unit along South Buona Vista road (opp NUS and near the Village) for $850K ($50K below valuation), with money left to rollover to finance another property. Constant repositioning is key. Cannot simply hold on to something indefinitely without selling anything.
wah so power...70k above and 50k below..oredi make 120k?:D
another bargain hunter:D
how come i cannot hunt down anything worthy for the past 2mths...:scared-5:
Absolutely agree. As with all investments, there must be an entry/exit strategy and constant repositioning of the investment portfolio. Just sold off a property for $70k above valuation; and bought a 13 year old FH 1200 sqft unit along South Buona Vista road (opp NUS and near the Village) for $850K ($50K below valuation), with money left to rollover to finance another property. Constant repositioning is key. Cannot simply hold on to something indefinitely without selling anything.
Valuation is very subjective and more an art than a science.
The fair market price of a property is its transacted price, and not its valuation.
Hence what you have done was to have sold a property at a fair market price and at the same time bought a property at fair market price.
The only people who have gained in these two transactions are the government, the property agents and the lawyers.
Hence it is still better to practise PROPERTISM.
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.
new2mondrian
12-07-10, 18:54
nah, i dun agree. it is always safer to take money off the table and keep some dry powder to deploy. in investing, there must be a comfortable entry point, but also an exit point once target profit is reached. nothing is indispensable.
new2mondrian
12-07-10, 19:12
wah so power...70k above and 50k below..oredi make 120k?:D
another bargain hunter:D
how come i cannot hunt down anything worthy for the past 2mths...:scared-5:
actually there are... if you are someone who is looking for psf and yield, some properties out there are not too bad... for example a 11XXsqft 3-bedder unit at Infiniti has been advertising for $930K ($7XXpsf) a couple of wks back; and there's also Duchess Crest... a few units there are going for $940psf ($1.1M 3 bedder) to $1kpsf ($1.7M 4 bedder currently rented at $6800). In psf terms and yield, all quite acceptable.
really depends on what you are looking for, and your budget size... or wait till next year.... and see if the prime party materialises. ;)
bargain hunter
12-07-10, 20:20
she's really good. on a roll after winning the "May sales number contest" say she wat beginners luck. :tongue3: old hand at ppty investment siah. :)
bargain hunter in same situation as u. could not find anything in the past 2 months. :ashamed1:
wah so power...70k above and 50k below..oredi make 120k?:D
another bargain hunter:D
how come i cannot hunt down anything worthy for the past 2mths...:scared-5:
bargain hunter
12-07-10, 20:30
u bot bayville at 850k? champion leh. both quantum and price are the lowest for its size in the past 1 year! :)
Absolutely agree. As with all investments, there must be an entry/exit strategy and constant repositioning of the investment portfolio. Just sold off a property for $70k above valuation; and bought a 13 year old FH 1200 sqft unit along South Buona Vista road (opp NUS and near the Village) for $850K ($50K below valuation), with money left to rollover to finance another property. Constant repositioning is key. Cannot simply hold on to something indefinitely without selling anything.
nah, i dun agree. it is always safer to take money off the table and keep some dry powder to deploy. in investing, there must be a comfortable entry point, but also an exit point once target profit is reached. nothing is indispensable.
I think it's another form of "leveraging" strategy through maximising what you have...eg you can exit to profit from one to purchase two and so on. Holding on is also another form of maximising profit strategy, especially in a booming market. It's a matter of preference. More often you will need to apply a combination strategy in your portfolio. So it's a middle path. That's my preferred strategy. :47:
devilplate
12-07-10, 23:07
she's really good. on a roll after winning the "May sales number contest" say she wat beginners luck. :tongue3: old hand at ppty investment siah. :)
bargain hunter in same situation as u. could not find anything in the past 2 months. :ashamed1:
ya lor...crouching tiger hidden dragon
new2mondrian
12-07-10, 23:30
*blush* what crouching tiger??!!! u guys are the real experts. I am just a novice. over the past few years, I learnt a lot from all the gurus in this forum.... from property owner to proud owner to bargain hunter to gfoo and all the rest. it's a great forum for exchange of views. :)
*blush* what crouching tiger??!!! u guys are the real experts. I am just a novice. over the past few years, I learnt a lot from all the gurus in this forum.... from property owner to proud owner to bargain hunter to gfoo and all the rest. it's a great forum for exchange of views. :)
Am I included in "all the rest"? Did you learn a lot from PROPERTISM? :p
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold. :cheers1:
PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air. :cheers6:
bargain hunter
13-07-10, 00:17
wah so honoured to be on the list siah. but me no expert lah, juz have interest and like to do research. practical wise not as active as the rest. let's see, new2mondrian has parc mondrian rite? bought minton, now sold another 1 and bot another one...even u r more active than me, what novice, dun gey gey leh... :) so did u get bayville or bouna vista gardens? curious to see if i guessed right. :D
*blush* what crouching tiger??!!! u guys are the real experts. I am just a novice. over the past few years, I learnt a lot from all the gurus in this forum.... from property owner to proud owner to bargain hunter to gfoo and all the rest. it's a great forum for exchange of views. :)
bargain hunter
13-07-10, 00:21
guess she learnt, but didn't put into practice. :D ok lah, modified version lah, as long as holding on to a portfolio of properties, that's good enough. at least that's what i think.
you put down those 2 rules below, she or most of us, for that matter, dun dare to say we learn from u liao leh. too ashamed. :ashamed1:
Am I included in "all the rest"? Did you learn a lot from PROPERTISM? :p
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold. :cheers1:
PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air. :cheers6:
proud owner
13-07-10, 00:23
wah so honoured to be on the list siah. but me no expert lah, juz have interest and like to do research. practical wise not as active as the rest. let's see, new2mondrian has parc mondrian rite? bought minton, now sold another 1 and bot another one...even u r more active than me, what novice, dun gey gey leh... :) so did u get bayville or bouna vista gardens? curious to see if i guessed right. :D
wow
i also paiseh ...
regardless Bayville or Buona Vista gdn ... that part of Pasir Panjang has a lot of potential ..
ever drive from there to Alexandra ? its like moving from a serene park to a business district ,,
lots of potential
proud owner
13-07-10, 00:25
Am I included in "all the rest"? Did you learn a lot from PROPERTISM? :p
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold. :cheers1:
PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air. :cheers6:
honestly i am still trying to grasp rule 1 ... cannot get myself to only BUY and NOT SELL
BUT , in my own religion ... your rule 2 is my rule 1
think we machiam like christianity .. many denominations ..
honestly i am still trying to grasp rule 1 ... cannot get myself to only BUY and NOT SELL
BUT , in my own religion ... your rule 2 is my rule 1
think we machiam like christianity .. many denominations ..
rule 1 is for those with loads of spare cash or where the property gives very good yield ~ :o
proud owner
13-07-10, 00:31
rule 1 is for those with loads of spare cash or where the property gives very good yield ~ :o
no wonder i cannot grasp ..
all my spare cash are used to pamper myself ..
afraid of dying before i get to reward my own hard work
devilplate
13-07-10, 00:32
wah so honoured to be on the list siah. but me no expert lah, juz have interest and like to do research. practical wise not as active as the rest. let's see, new2mondrian has parc mondrian rite? bought minton, now sold another 1 and bot another one...even u r more active than me, what novice, dun gey gey leh... :) so did u get bayville or bouna vista gardens? curious to see if i guessed right. :D
shd be bayville...saw one 3bedder advertised for 880k...not bad if really manage to nego down to 850k...i tink 880k shd be the market valuation...ard 750psf:D
strangely buona vista gdn asking price so so high:doh:
new2mondrian
13-07-10, 09:38
jlrx, I definitely learnt your propertism! heheheheee.... but it's very hard to put into practice. How to buy and don't sell? And don't sell when a very good offer comes around? Easier said than done leh. :)
But amongst your many invaluable lessons, you also shared that one should buy a property quickly to hedge against the property which one has just sold right? At least I remembered that and still practising it! :)
One of the best lessons which I learnt from this forum is from a guru called property_owner. Many moons ago, he shared something like this -
====================
Let's say you invest in property A with 2m. Now you sell at a profit of 2.5m. You must be think if u were to buy a better property and upgrade u might have to top up more cash/increase your loans as property might be much expensive. No doubt property B(maybe about 3m) have better capital gain/location etc but as we knows, we are cautious with the bubble that might be forming and burst any time if something is to goes wrong again.
So now you sell property A, instead of buying property B where the risk is higher, you buy property C with 2m. Which is to me the location/comparison must be close to property A. In the event property B moves up, property A will moves along too, likewise for property C. You will still make profits.
But if things turn sour, your commitment is still 2m. The sum you started out as investments. No need to worry about the higher bank installment etc.
This is my 2 cents, invests at your own risk. Market changes very fast. Don;t get caught off guard. Good time to buy now I feel. But buy with cautious. Do your homework will get you good deal.
Lastly, to me property is about holding power. Also not when you buy but what you buy.
======================
Well, I am still trying to put into practice what I have learnt from all of you. To look for location, to watch for psf and yield, to be patient, to ensure I have holding power, and to hedge against future increases. :) It's a great forum full of great teachers!
Bargain Hunter,
South Buona Vista road is a loooong road, and Pasir Panjang is full of private properties. You must look around and not limit yourself to the 2 devts mentioned hor. :D
devilplate
13-07-10, 10:24
i hf been trying to deleverage as well...but let say i sold my normal sized 1bedder den i goto downgrade to MM units...:ashamed1: haha
this time round harder to deleverage. in 2007, prime lead the pack and we can sell away prime and downgrade to mass market. this time round, how?
no wonder i cannot grasp ..
all my spare cash are used to pamper myself ..
afraid of dying before i get to reward my own hard work
fully agreed, money is only yours when u spent
we are now spending the children's money.
hurray! property_owner strategy for replacement is something along the line of this replacement strategy i read some. thisss one is more feasible for me at least.
she's really good. on a roll after winning the "May sales number contest" say she wat beginners luck. :tongue3: old hand at ppty investment siah. :)
bargain hunter in same situation as u. could not find anything in the past 2 months. :ashamed1:
been looking for past 2 months and no bargains to be found too...
maciam everyone is asking for future pricing like the developers are :doh:
jlrx, I definitely learnt your propertism! heheheheee.... but it's very hard to put into practice. How to buy and don't sell? And don't sell when a very good offer comes around? Easier said than done leh. :)
But amongst your many invaluable lessons, you also shared that one should buy a property quickly to hedge against the property which one has just sold right? At least I remembered that and still practising it! :)
That's also PROPERTISM in action! :cheers1:
Usually this is more worthwhile in the case of en-blocs, where the offer from the developer is at least 50% above the market rate of what individual units can achieve.
Here is the complete version of PROPERTISM Rule No. 1:
PROPERTISM Rule No.1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold, unless en-blocked then either;
a. Quickly buy a replacement property; or
b. If you have the cash, buy one even before the en-bloc goes through. :cheers6:
honestly i am still trying to grasp rule 1 ... cannot get myself to only BUY and NOT SELL
BUT , in my own religion ... your rule 2 is my rule 1
think we machiam like christianity .. many denominations ..
rule 1 is for those with loads of spare cash or where the property gives very good yield ~ :o
no wonder i cannot grasp ..
all my spare cash are used to pamper myself ..
afraid of dying before i get to reward my own hard work
The best way to pamper and reward yourself is to buy properties!
There is no point in buying those things that everyone else can afford like branded clothes, luxury cars and Sultan Fish.
devilplate
13-07-10, 16:44
i just feel tat every ppty is unique and hard to be replaced.
so if u like a ppty so much, pls dun cash out...very tough to get back one.
i missed one of my ppty so badly:(
That's also PROPERTISM in action! :cheers1:
Usually this is more worthwhile in the case of en-blocs, where the offer from the developer is at least 50% above the market rate of what individual units can achieve.
Here is the complete version of PROPERTISM Rule No. 1:
PROPERTISM Rule No.1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold, unless en-blocked then either;
a. Quickly buy a replacement property; or
b. If you have the cash, buy one even before the en-bloc goes through. :cheers6:
1a doesn't always work & and options on 1b can dry up.
My old place was going enbloc end 2007 all bridging loans disappeared due to credit crunch and banks became unwilling to loan as enbloc may not materialise. Anyhow it did & I got my cheque in Mar 2008 - maybe the stupid developer practice blind propertism :cheers1:
Anyhow, glad I didn't - waited until June 2009 and get for 30% less! woot! Under those circumstances blind faith your propertism would have cost me big.
proud owner
13-07-10, 21:23
The best way to pamper and reward yourself is to buy properties!
There is no point in buying those things that everyone else can afford like branded clothes, luxury cars and Sultan Fish.
ahha no leh ..
i dun really fancy those stuff ..
i spend more on travelling .. holiday ... makan ...
already planned my trips this sep, oct and next june ..
and i am sure in between those .. there will be more small short trips
so HOW TO BUY PROPERTIES ? where got money ?
1a doesn't always work & and options on 1b can dry up.
My old place was going enbloc end 2007 all bridging loans disappeared due to credit crunch and banks became unwilling to loan as enbloc may not materialise. Anyhow it did & I got my cheque in Mar 2008 - maybe the stupid developer practice blind propertism :cheers1:
Anyhow, glad I didn't - waited until June 2009 and get for 30% less! woot! Under those circumstances blind faith your propertism would have cost me big.
Leaving a gap between the sale of a property and the purchase of a replacement is akin to terminating your health insurance for a couple of years before taking up a new one.
The insurance premiums saved (assuming nothing happens) during the interim is never worth the risk.
Leaving a gap between the sale of a property and the purchase of a replacement is akin to terminating your health insurance for a couple of years before taking up a new one.
The insurance premiums saved (assuming nothing happens) during the interim is never worth the risk.
don't think this analogy is appropriate...
leaving a gap between sale and purchase could be good if the market tank---for example during the Asian crisis(thus not just insurance premiums saved). market is always 2-directional. upside and downside risk is equal at any one time...
but i agree with you that no one knows, at any one time, where market is going...
and also agree with you that one loses out on the stamp duty and agent's commission when you do a sale and buy-back purchase. this is the downside of doing a sale and buy-back as compared to sticking with Propertism :)
Leaving a gap between the sale of a property and the purchase of a replacement is akin to terminating your health insurance for a couple of years before taking up a new one.
The insurance premiums saved (assuming nothing happens) during the interim is never worth the risk.
i sold and handover my home in oct-2008. I remembered the question always pop up in my head "will i be a able to afford something similar later... is the price starting to rise...". As time passed, i became more and more gan cheong. By apr-2009, cannot tahan liao, issue check for a OTP. When i saw the stock market start moving, very stressful, so afraid property ran up together. The idea of unable to buy back something similar make us ignore all odds(that time all friends and media said price to go down further by year end).
Why we sold our home? because we wanted to move out of that location, and we could not afford another place without selling the first.:p
Leaving a gap between the sale of a property and the purchase of a replacement is akin to terminating your health insurance for a couple of years before taking up a new one.
The insurance premiums saved (assuming nothing happens) during the interim is never worth the risk.
really? Save me close to a million dollars.
A penny saved is a penny earned.
As head priest of your religion would you have refunded me for my mistake of reinvesting in a tanking market?
Just kidding - but you wouldn't believe the number of times I have seen this silly statement made on the other side of the play. :D
End of the day we are all responsible for our own decisions. Blindly following others advice is always recipe for disaster. Sure you can "blame" them later for "cheating" you but it's always our own choice what action to take.
Anyhow, you have said yourself you disappear /shrank during that time from this forum so lucky I didn't have to get confused with your message that doesn't seem to alter even when circumstances have.
Actually by vanishing for a while during crisis I guess the message did change just by absense.
Anyhow - I believe most people posting is normally self justification for their own actions. Affirmation & justification that they have done the correct thing - myself no different :)
:expert: :)
A penny saved is a penny earned.
As head priest of your religion would you have refunded me for my mistake of reinvesting in a tanking market?
Just kidding - but you wouldn't believe the number of times I have seen this silly statement made on the other side of the play. :D
End of the day we are all responsible for our own decisions. Blindly following others advice is always recipe for disaster. Sure you can "blame" them later for "cheating" you but it's always our own choice what action to take.
Anyhow, you have said yourself you disappear /shrank during that time from this forum so lucky I didn't have to get confused with your message that doesn't seem to alter even when circumstances have.
Actually by vanishing for a while during crisis I guess the message did change just by absense.
Anyhow - I believe most people posting is normally self justification for their own actions. Affirmation & justification that they have done the correct thing - myself no different :)
Am I included in "all the rest"? Did you learn a lot from PROPERTISM? :p
PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold. :cheers1:
PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air. :cheers6:
I am 99% convince of youre rule no.1. However, I remember a quote that Keynes said, "in the long run, we are all dead."
I am 99% convince of youre rule no.1. However, I remember a quote that Keynes said, "in the long run, we are all dead."
We are all here to enrich our descendants. There is a limit to practise the rule no.1 to maximise the returns. Imagine if you grandfather has the moolah to buy Binjai or Tanglin area.
proud owner
14-07-10, 11:37
We are all here to enrich our descendants. There is a limit to practise the rule no.1 to maximise the returns. Imagine if you grandfather has the moolah to buy Binjai or Tanglin area.
not necessary
my friends grandfather own a huge land .. very big ..
and govt came and acquired it .. at crap price ..quoting the need to develope that place ..
its now 3 generations .. that land that govt boguht back from them is still vacant ..
take a drive ..from King albert park ..up towards AYE direction .. and look at the empty forest on your left .. opposite ngee ann
they were forced to sell back to govt ... for a development apparently never took place
so keeping property forever may end up losing opportunites ..
We are all here to enrich our descendants. There is a limit to practise the rule no.1 to maximise the returns. Imagine if you grandfather has the moolah to buy Binjai or Tanglin area.
Yup. If thats the thinking to buy and hold for descendants and ignored of all short term gains in your own life time through that property, then the theory would 99% works. 1% is if anything big ever happened here.
Have you got the wrong conclusion?
The correct conclusion should be: If they could have held on to the properties and land and fight the demand to sell (just like those in China), they will now be billionaires and the money is enough for more than 10 generations! :p
not necessary
my friends grandfather own a huge land .. very big ..
and govt came and acquired it .. at crap price ..quoting the need to develope that place ..
its now 3 generations .. that land that govt boguht back from them is still vacant ..
take a drive ..from King albert park ..up towards AYE direction .. and look at the empty forest on your left .. opposite ngee ann
they were forced to sell back to govt ... for a development apparently never took place
so keeping property forever may end up losing opportunites ..
really? Save me close to a million dollars.
A penny saved is a penny earned.
As head priest of your religion would you have refunded me for my mistake of reinvesting in a tanking market?
I am 99% convince of youre rule no.1. However, I remember a quote that Keynes said, "in the long run, we are all dead."
We are all here to enrich our descendants. There is a limit to practise the rule no.1 to maximise the returns. Imagine if you grandfather has the moolah to buy Binjai or Tanglin area.
My response to the above posts can best be summarised by the following classifieds advertisement.
A penny saved may be a penny earned, but a penny earned may end up being a pound foolish.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/BinjaiParkFrankelEstateBuildingLots.jpg
WOW!, why enter deeper & deeper into the debate of propertism..
I guess this is level 9, the highest level of propertism -
abstaining from all forms of luxury, pleasure, desires:cheers5: :cheers3: :money-faced1:
except property and more property. I guess not many
has attained except maybe the master.
If you are not willing to give up all these, dont try
to win the master of propertism:tsk-tsk:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
proud owner
14-07-10, 21:03
Have you got the wrong conclusion?
The correct conclusion should be: If they could have held on to the properties and land and fight the demand to sell (just like those in China), they will now be billionaires and the money is enough for more than 10 generations! :p
do you know what even if you own the land .. if the govt wants to buyu back .. you can fight but chances are you will lose .. you end up still have to sell back to govt ..
prior to govt buying back from them ..they had offers ..much higher ..but they refused to sell ..
then came God's hand ... and they L L had to sell back ..
check all FH landed documents .. all said .. govt still have the right to buy back ..
anyone read the Edge lately? Came across this transation
3 Leedon Park (D10) Detached House, FH, 15 Jun 2010, 41,850 sq ft land area, transacted at 59,383,388....and the purchaser address - HDB...
Someone with a HDB address just paid $60M for a D10 house?
bargain hunter
15-07-10, 00:19
as i said, many millionaires staying in hdbs. :) suddenly GCB becomes hdb upgrader market. :D but if income tax pay too little sure kenna invited to IRAS to lim kopi. :ashamed1:
anyone read the Edge lately? Came across this transation
3 Leedon Park (D10) Detached House, FH, 15 Jun 2010, 41,850 sq ft land area, transacted at 59,383,388....and the purchaser address - HDB...
Someone with a HDB address just paid $60M for a D10 house?
devilplate
15-07-10, 02:15
wahhhh
60mil downpayment easily 12mil!! and yet stay in HDB!:scared-1:
biggest jump...from HDB to ultimate GCB!
proud owner
15-07-10, 02:18
wahhhh
60mil downpayment easily 12mil!! and yet stay in HDB!:scared-1:
biggest jump...from HDB to ultimate GCB!
i can imagine already ..
from Repoxxxx :
GCB price will chiong .. led by read demand from HDB upgrader
proud owner
15-07-10, 02:19
[quote=proud owner]
my mistake ... not read but real
i can imagine already ..
from Repoxxxx :
GCB price will chiong .. led by real demand from HDB upgrader
crouching tiger hidden dragon, the HDB owner perhaps has 10 kopitiams under his investment holding company.
new2mondrian
15-07-10, 10:08
crouching tiger hidden dragon, the HDB owner perhaps has 10 kopitiams under his investment holding company.
wah, that's really power....
but then again, if this HDB owner has an investment holding coy, might as well register the ownership of the GCB behind the corporate veil of investment holding coy. then no need to reveal identity. :D
proud owner
15-07-10, 10:21
wah, that's really power....
but then again, if this HDB owner has an investment holding coy, might as well register the ownership of the GCB behind the corporate veil of investment holding coy. then no need to reveal identity. :D
not surprised if he is rich PRC .. took up PR ship ..bought HDB as first home ..hiding, and watching, waiting to pounce ...
bargain hunter
15-07-10, 10:27
hey, like that there will be huge influx of hot money into hdb! with the easy processing of PRCs obtaining PR approvals, hdb resale prices will cross the $1m mark and hit $2m soon! hahahahahaha :doh: :D
not surprised if he is rich PRC .. took up PR ship ..bought HDB as first home ..hiding, and watching, waiting to pounce ...
bargain hunter
15-07-10, 10:37
maybe he is the bulk seller of the 6 coffee shops recently put up for sale. the amount is about right, he learnt from new2mondrian, sell and switch and still keep a few million in spare change. :) and hey, the defending champion is logged in early today for the 3-D lunchtime draw today. :o jul sales should return to 4 digits. hooray!
Savills Puts 6 HDB shops up for sale
(SINGAPORE) Real estate consultancy Savills yesterday launched six HDB commercial shops for sale through expressions of interest.
The shops are in the mature estates of Ang Mo Kio, Bedok, Bukit Batok, Yishun and Tampines.
They are rented and operate as substantial eating establishments, with seven to 13 food stalls each plus an anchor drinks stall. They have elastic seating capacity of 200-370 people spread over internal and outdoor areas.
All the shops are close to wet markets and transport nodes, and have good visibility and plenty of public car parking.
Collectively, the six shops have a guide price of about $65 million, reflecting a net yield before property tax of 5.7 per cent. They can be sold as a portfolio or individually, with each shop priced at between $4.8 million and $16 million.
The existing tenancies have four to nine years to run. The net yield before property tax is expected to grow to above 6 per cent in the near term as committed rents are stepped up over the tenancy period.
Expressions of interest close at 3pm on July 21.
Source: Business Times, 29 Jun 2010"
wah, that's really power....
but then again, if this HDB owner has an investment holding coy, might as well register the ownership of the GCB behind the corporate veil of investment holding coy. then no need to reveal identity. :D
proud owner
15-07-10, 10:44
maybe he is the bulk seller of the 6 coffee shops recently put up for sale. the amount is about right, he learnt from new2mondrian, sell and switch and still keep a few million in spare change. :) and hey, the defending champion is logged in early today for the 3-D lunchtime draw today. :o jul sales should return to 4 digits. hooray!
Savills Puts 6 HDB shops up for sale
(SINGAPORE) Real estate consultancy Savills yesterday launched six HDB commercial shops for sale through expressions of interest.
The shops are in the mature estates of Ang Mo Kio, Bedok, Bukit Batok, Yishun and Tampines.
They are rented and operate as substantial eating establishments, with seven to 13 food stalls each plus an anchor drinks stall. They have elastic seating capacity of 200-370 people spread over internal and outdoor areas.
All the shops are close to wet markets and transport nodes, and have good visibility and plenty of public car parking.
Collectively, the six shops have a guide price of about $65 million, reflecting a net yield before property tax of 5.7 per cent. They can be sold as a portfolio or individually, with each shop priced at between $4.8 million and $16 million.
The existing tenancies have four to nine years to run. The net yield before property tax is expected to grow to above 6 per cent in the near term as committed rents are stepped up over the tenancy period.
Expressions of interest close at 3pm on July 21.
Source: Business Times, 29 Jun 2010"
bro you are good
this kind of news you also can dig out and piece them together ..
but how .. my understanding is :
not every Ah Ter , Ah Kow can buy GCB ...
doesnt mean got money means can buy ...
otherwise alot of hawker centre Char Siew Fan tow kay all stay GCB leow
unless the rule has changed
bargain hunter
15-07-10, 10:57
i thought GCB can? its those sentosa landed which has a criteria i think? i am not sure.
bro you are good
this kind of news you also can dig out and piece them together ..
but how .. my understanding is :
not every Ah Ter , Ah Kow can buy GCB ...
doesnt mean got money means can buy ...
otherwise alot of hawker centre Char Siew Fan tow kay all stay GCB leow
unless the rule has changed
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