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lindatlc
02-08-10, 08:20
Hi, anyone can give advise as to which one is good for investment?
My budget is about 700K-750K
Ave psf for northoaks is about 550 and rosewood is about 650
Though rosewood is more ex but has a better location (near civic center)
But northoaks is cheaper. I heard the rent is about the same for both area. Also, is it a good time to buy now?

Thanks

cashrich
02-08-10, 09:29
Hi, anyone can give advise as to which one is good for investment?
My budget is about 700K-750K
Ave psf for northoaks is about 550 and rosewood is about 650
Though rosewood is more ex but has a better location (near civic center)
But northoaks is cheaper. I heard the rent is about the same for both area. Also, is it a good time to buy now?

Thanks

no time is a good time...

u buy now and 6 months later.. price increased further.. you would say its a good time to buy

Then another 6 months later.. price fall by at least 10 percent from your purchase price... you would say, shit!, I should have waited.

The another 6 months later.. price increase to your purchased price.. same level.. then you will say.. I bought at the right time as I have rent free stay and my investment is still safe..

WTF? Just buy if there's is a need! not want!.. if a need, take it or leave it.

Which is better? The one that you can afford better is the right one. Near MRT is not important lah when you don't even make the money to take MRT, after paying debt.

Go for north croaks! between the two shitty ones

lancelot
02-08-10, 12:12
I'd say go for Rosewood. It's nearer to Woodlands regional centre. I expect this will become an important hub when KTM station is relocated to Woodlands and an MRT extension to JB is realised. Another plus point is that the area south of Woodlands Ave 1 is fast becoming a private residential enclave, with Casablanca, Rosewood Suites, Woodgrove Condo, The Woodgrove and landed housing on the same stretch. If I'm not mistaken the govt has tendered for sale or put on reserve list a new site nearby. As we all know, whenever a new project is launched, it sets a new benchmark price and the rising tide lifts all surrounding boats. Hence, better capital appreciation potential for Rosewood compared to Northoaks, which btw, is an EC.

devilplate
02-08-10, 12:32
if centris can hit 9xxpsf...who noes...mabe one day woodlands can hit 9xxpsf too:D

wesing
02-08-10, 12:42
Northoaks was formerly an EC which may explain why it is cheaper than Rosewood (since it is also older). Should be fully privatized by now.

It is entirely your call to decide whether it is worthwhile to pay additional $100 psf for Rosewood which is only one MRT stop away from Northoaks (both are still a distance away from their respective MRTs).

For me, I will choose Northoaks due to the much lower psf as the locations of both condos are sama sama lah:D :D

rattydrama
02-08-10, 13:02
Posisble to hit. The roads in Woodlands are better planned. 72m upgrade @ Causeway Point.

http://www.fraserscentrepointtrust.com/Library/pdf/newsroom/CWP%20AEI%20Press%20release%20-%20final.pdf

rattydrama
02-08-10, 13:08
btw, American school is nearer to Rosewood than to Northoaks.

rattydrama
02-08-10, 13:47
My contractor friend told me 72m to revamp is pretty high...... possible to built apartment over at top of causeway point? Can some friends here share their views?


Posisble to hit. The roads in Woodlands are better planned. 72m upgrade @ Causeway Point.

http://www.fraserscentrepointtrust.com/Library/pdf/newsroom/CWP%20AEI%20Press%20release%20-%20final.pdf

wesing
02-08-10, 14:02
btw, American school is nearer to Rosewood than to Northoaks.

I worked for a huge US entity that have a big team of Americans based here in SG. None of them are staying anywhere near the Singapore American School (SAS) even though private housing is so much cheaper here than in town. Don't expect many Americans going to stay so far out in Woodlands just for the convenience of their kids' education. What are school buses for?:D :D

I frequent regularly the coffee shop/neighbourhood mall at Woodsgrove (where NTUC Fairprice is). Do not see many ang mohs hanging out there in the evening. Ratio of locals to ang moh there is at least 50 to 1. Recommend that you go down and take a look yourself.

So if buying for rental income, may not be that easy to rent out to ang mohs even though SAS is down the street.

wesing
02-08-10, 14:12
Posisble to hit. The roads in Woodlands are better planned. 72m upgrade @ Causeway Point.

http://www.fraserscentrepointtrust.com/Library/pdf/newsroom/CWP%20AEI%20Press%20release%20-%20final.pdf

From the article, it appears that FCT is only upgrading the shopping mall to make it more appealling. Nothing more. Anyway, no matter how you dress up, still cannot compete with the established malls in orchard. May be primarily to attract people for JB to come over to shop there.

As for the roads, it may be better planned within the estate but then still jam left right centre i.e. always jam during morning peak hours along Woodlands Ave 2 & 12 heading towards SLE (CTE) at least up to Mandai Exit and also from Ave 2 till the SLE sliproad towards BKE:doh: :doh: That's why I can't wait to shift out from there. Convenient only to those who work in the northern areas like Woodlands, Sembawang and Yishun. Nightmare for those who work in town especially during rainy days.:banghead: :banghead:

devilplate
02-08-10, 14:27
the furthest i usually drive is until kranji turf club via TPE from the east..

HORSEY!:D

rattydrama
02-08-10, 15:31
IMO, people buying into Woodlands projects are for own stay instead of rental. Northoaks is surrounded by HDB flats and another condo next to it, proximity to Admiralty MRT.
Rosewoods - one site HDB flat + pretty famous neighborhood primary school.

Rosewood is nearer to Woodgrove (NTUC), SAS, private 99LH landed, and proximity to Civic Centre, MRT and causeway point. So in terms of future re-sale value, it will be better to associated to these areas than to admiralty MRT, surrounded by HDBs.

A new land parcel is going to be released for sales near SAS, Woodlands Ave 1. So there should be upside potential for the surrounding condos.

When one say near to SAS, does it sounds better than saying besides HDB?


I worked for a huge US entity that have a big team of Americans based here in SG. None of them are staying anywhere near the Singapore American School (SAS) even though private housing is so much cheaper here than in town. Don't expect many Americans going to stay so far out in Woodlands just for the convenience of their kids' education. What are school buses for?:D :D

I frequent regularly the coffee shop/neighbourhood mall at Woodsgrove (where NTUC Fairprice is). Do not see many ang mohs hanging out there in the evening. Ratio of locals to ang moh there is at least 50 to 1. Recommend that you go down and take a look yourself.

So if buying for rental income, may not be that easy to rent out to ang mohs even though SAS is down the street.

rattydrama
02-08-10, 15:39
I travel to JB very frequently so I don’t mind staying in Woodlands. I am not too sure how many of them are like me.

Week-ends crowd is good at causeway point. I visited Plaza Sing 2 weeks ago for my marks and spancer stuff, not too crowded almost same as causeway point.

Yes, work in Woodlands and stay in Woodlands cos its too crowded to travel out else where, in particularly to Town Area during rush hours.

mantrix
02-08-10, 15:59
Northoaks for me. I've viewed both - go in and see and you'll know. Also, traffic is better and you are not restricted to only causeway point - travel the other way and there's sunplaza + sembawang shopping centre. Rosewood is beside casablanca and with rosewood suites coming up the residential enclave is becoming more congested. Northoaks is beside a huge park and a school - it's Woodsvale that is closer to the HDBs.

Also on SAS - rosewood is not that close anyway. Better to buy woodgrove condo if you really want some proximity (from woodgrove condo it is still a good 10-15 min walk)

If sending kids to SAS, and you need 5 min to drive from rosewood to SAS and 8min from northoaks would u be willing to pay extra 100psf for the 3minutes u save driving?

You may not know this (insider info) but Northoaks is becoming fully privatised this october - prices expected to go up by 5% or more as I've heard many ang moh tenants waiting to offer (who work in the shipyard and their kids go to SAS)

Anyway this is my opinion - at the end of the day, both condos are still value for money cos Woodlands area is still way undervalued (along w yishun / sembawang) along with rest of the market so if it's for self-stay, it will be a good buy. For investment - you might need to wait a tad longer.

lindatlc
03-08-10, 08:11
Hey guys, one question. I am going ot fulfil my 5 years occupancy for my 5 years occupancy for my hdb in 01 Oct 2010. According HDB ruling, I will be able to buy a private property only in 01 Oct 2010. I will be going to view both northoaks and rosewood this sat. If I see a unit I like, is there anyway I can buy ? Else I will have to wait till 01 Oct. THanks

devilplate
03-08-10, 09:30
Hey guys, one question. I am going ot fulfil my 5 years occupancy for my 5 years occupancy for my hdb in 01 Oct 2010. According HDB ruling, I will be able to buy a private property only in 01 Oct 2010. I will be going to view both northoaks and rosewood this sat. If I see a unit I like, is there anyway I can buy ? Else I will have to wait till 01 Oct. THanks

i also wana noe...if let say sales completion ends after 1st oct...den ok for him? or he must offer to purchase after 1st oct

shauntanzs
03-08-10, 09:55
well well.. If u are selling ur hdb to move into ur condo, then no issue, just go ahead and buy. U can appeal to buy private 3months b4 ur 5yrs term. Even if u are only 2yrs in ur term, u oso can buy. Hdb has no record. Even if they found out, they will write to u and ask u to sell ur hdb within 6months. Dis is the loophole. But only applicable to those condo u can move in within 6months or else u have to sleep at roadside. How do i know all these? I called hdb few months ago to check b4 i bought my private.

cashrich
03-08-10, 10:25
well well.. If u are selling ur hdb to move into ur condo, then no issue, just go ahead and buy. U can appeal to buy private 3months b4 ur 5yrs term. Even if u are only 2yrs in ur term, u oso can buy. Hdb has no record. Even if they found out, they will write to u and ask u to sell ur hdb within 6months. Dis is the loophole. But only applicable to those condo u can move in within 6months or else u have to sleep at roadside. How do i know all these? I called hdb few months ago to check b4 i bought my private.

U can do anything.. HDB don't really enforce them. If you know of any enforcement, please share.. they only share 1 or 2 extreme cases in the news... after all these years.. maybe you can check their web site to see if there's any press release on such enforcements.

HDB = Honey Daddy Buy

devilplate
03-08-10, 10:29
U can do anything.. HDB don't really enforce them. If you know of any enforcement, please share.. they only share 1 or 2 extreme cases in the news... after all these years.. maybe you can check their web site to see if there's any press release on such enforcements.

HDB = Honey Daddy Buy

wah...wait HDB really actionX3.....election coming somemore

lindatlc
03-08-10, 12:37
I am buying the private property and will keep the HDB flat....
I think I will call and appeal if I can buy now.

rattydrama
03-08-10, 13:43
Since we are on HDB, can I ask a quick question.

If I owe a private property and a HDB at a same time, can I sell away my HDB (re-sale) and buy another HDB (re-sale) while still holding on with my property property?

taggy
03-08-10, 13:51
Since we are on HDB, can I ask a quick question.

If I owe a private property and a HDB at a same time, can I sell away my HDB (re-sale) and buy another HDB (re-sale) while still holding on with my property property?

i guess should be ok blah... i m one who own a private first, then buy a hdb resale. i assume u already fulfill mop for first resale hdb.

tboonk
04-08-10, 08:01
I viewed both Northoaks and Rosewood about one year back and made my decision on Rosewood . I will explain my choice.

In terms of quality of finishes, Rosewood is definitely better with marble and granites finishes in both the common and master toilet. The bed rooms, especially the master bed room, are spacious. For the master bed room, wardrobe is tucked in a nice corner which is complete with a table top good to be used as a dressing table or a small study table for your laptop. The kitchen is connected to the living room through a serving window and a door, which are made of high class solid wood. You will just need to varnish them and they will look like new!

In terms of location, Rosewood is a little bit nearer to MRT then Northoaks, and also closest to the MRT compared to its neighbours (casablanca, rosewood suites, woodsgrove). Moreover, Rosewood is tucked in woodlands central at the condo enclave, and therefore, should command a premium. It is also just 5 min walk to civics centre while northoaks is about 10 min walk to admiralty HDB neighbourhood centre. There are also 2 NTUCs within 5 min walk from Rosewood, @civics centre and woodsvale.

I am not familiar with rental at northoaks, but what i know is that my unit gets rent out extremely fast. Even up to now, i still receive calls from agents every other week to ask if my unit is still available for renting. Tenants are normally expats (koreans, ang mos) who either work in the north, or have their kids studying in the north (some even at siling primary, not to mention SAS). My tenant is currently an american working in the semi conductor company up north.

The layout at rosewood is squarish while northoaks units are odd shaped.

Moreover, rosewood will be undergoing repainting soon and its value should appreciate again after the repainting.

Northoaks does has its strength though. If you like a bigger compound for your kids to run, and a bigger pool, and a slighter cheaper psf, you should go for Northoaks.

If you choose rosewood, my recommendation will be the units facing casablanca and the children's pool, especially those in tower 11 or 9 (possibly also 13). Those that face the HDB can be noisy due to road noise. Unfortunately, not many of these units are normally available for sale.

Last, I have been living in woodlands for the past 8 years and driving to city through SLE every morning. I have not experienced the traffic jams along avenue 12 or 2.

wesing
04-08-10, 09:02
You never experience slow traffic along Ave 12 (starting from the junction with Ave 1 until SLE/CTE Mandai Road exit) and from Ave 2 entrance to SLE to the slip road to BKE after 7:15 am? You must be either leaving home very early or late or you only travel during school holidays dude:tongue3: :tongue3:

rattydrama
04-08-10, 09:08
Thanks for the reply. I tried to go to HDB Q&A but have difficulty obtaining my answer. Yes I have fulfilled the MOP for the first flat. But do I need to fulfil MOP for the 2nd flat before I can rent out which I could have paid in full?


i guess should be ok blah... i m one who own a private first, then buy a hdb resale. i assume u already fulfill mop for first resale hdb.

focus
04-08-10, 10:52
Thanks for the reply. I tried to go to HDB Q&A but have difficulty obtaining my answer. Yes I have fulfilled the MOP for the first flat. But do I need to fulfil MOP for the 2nd flat before I can rent out which I could have paid in full?

The rule already says MOP needs to be satisfied whenever you buy a flat.
When you sell the old flat and buy a new flat, you are actually starting afresh. That means MOP needs to be observed for the period.

Anyway, why don't you just email them instead of asking in this forum where none of us are from HDB (hopeffuly). You will get a prompt reply from them in email format to cover your backside too :)

I just found out that it is an offense to leave your HDB vacant while staying in a private apt. You are required to rent it out or sell it.

gohsoonk
04-08-10, 13:23
Based on policy, you are not allowed to leave your subsidised HDB vacant for any reason. Need to write in for exception.


The rule already says MOP needs to be satisfied whenever you buy a flat.
When you sell the old flat and buy a new flat, you are actually starting afresh. That means MOP needs to be observed for the period.

Anyway, why don't you just email them instead of asking in this forum where none of us are from HDB (hopeffuly). You will get a prompt reply from them in email format to cover your backside too :)

I just found out that it is an offense to leave your HDB vacant while staying in a private apt. You are required to rent it out or sell it.

lindatlc
04-08-10, 18:11
Hi, it is true, I have called up HDB . My 5 years of occupancy is 01 Oct. I have asked the officer if I can appeal to buy earlier and the answer is no. Will be fine if they found out

maisonjai
04-08-10, 19:44
Hi, it is true, I have called up HDB . My 5 years of occupancy is 01 Oct. I have asked the officer if I can appeal to buy earlier and the answer is no. Will be fine if they found out

u can twist ur words, the officer said 'fine', means ok to buy :D adjective or noun the officer didn't say properly mah. :banana:

anyway 1.5mths to go, will they find out within 6 weeks? btw did they say how much is the fine?

lindatlc
05-08-10, 08:00
Thanks Tboonk, the information provided is really useful. I will be going to view some of the units this weekend. Will make some comparison from there. :)

tboonk
05-08-10, 08:44
My pleasure. But do make your fair assessment yourself. You should also view casablanca, rosewood suite and woodsvale to form a more complete picture of the condos at woodslands. My top picks are still rosewood and northoaks.

mantrix
05-08-10, 16:40
I like to look at properties in the north (and my relatives are there) so I analyse northern condos a fair bit. I feel comparing northoaks to rosewood is not comparing apple to apple. It is better to compare rosewood to casablanca and rosewood suites while comparing northoaks to woodsvale. Rosewood and northoaks are one mrt stations apart - do you compare district 15 to district 16 condos? (Not the best analogy but I think I've made my point)

Besides, choosing a condo is not about just proximity to mrt or layout of rooms - else HDBs are the best bet with good locations and layouts at a fraction of the price.

It is the 'feeling' or chemistry that you experience when you step in - hence I keep reiterating you should go down to view instead of trying to make a judgement based on reviews on the web.

Cheers and good luck

lindatlc
10-08-10, 09:01
I went to view woodsvale, northoaks and casablanca the last weekend. I must say that I like casablaca the best. Very relax feeling, guess it is because it is new. But their asking price is about 788K - 820 K for a 3 bedder 712 psf which is out of my budget of 700K - 750K I think it is a bit ex for me. Between northoaks and woodsvale, i prefer northoaks, big pool etc.
Still i prefer casablanca. Rosewood facilitlies seems not too bad. Will be viewing after agent arrange and see how it goes. I might just drop buying for now and wait if prices for both casa and rose wood are beyond my budget. Just dun know when it will drop. Perhaps a few years?

wesing
10-08-10, 09:30
I went to view woodsvale, northoaks and casablanca the last weekend. I must say that I like casablaca the best. Very relax feeling, guess it is because it is new. But their asking price is about 788K - 820 K for a 3 bedder 712 psf which is out of my budget of 700K - 750K I think it is a bit ex for me. Between northoaks and woodsvale, i prefer northoaks, big pool etc.
Still i prefer casablanca. Rosewood facilitlies seems not too bad. Will be viewing after agent arrange and see how it goes. I might just drop buying for now and wait if prices for both casa and rose wood are beyond my budget. Just dun know when it will drop. Perhaps a few years?

Instead of waiting for prices to drop, may be you should think in the mean time how to increase your budget to buy the dream unit at casablanca.

Although it is reasonable to expect property prices to correct eventually, nobody knows when and also by how much. It could happen that prices will keep on rising from now and when correction happens, the lower price may still be higher than what it is now. Also, if correction occurs, do you think there will be that many sellers putting their units on fire sale? Even if there are, do you think you will be one of those lucky dudes getting your hand on those super bargains?

I was quoted a 2-bedder at Floridian in early 2009 at less than $1,200 psf which I found it good but beyond my budget as my CPF OA investment was in very much in the red then. When the share market improves in early 2010 and with more savings on my part, I bought my unit at Cube 8 at around $1,300 psf which became affordable to me even though the price is a new high for that area. I recently came to know that newer releases (better viewing & bigger units) at Floridian in July is going from $1,600 psf.

Therefore, don't buy bcoz you think price is low enough but buy only if you like it and it is within your budget. When prices start to drop, people will worry/hope that it would continue to drop further and will not buy even if price is within their budget. That's just normal people mindset.

mantrix
10-08-10, 09:48
Instead of waiting for prices to drop, may be you should think in the mean time how to increase your budget to buy the dream unit at casablanca.

Although it is reasonable to expect property prices to correct eventually, nobody knows when and also by how much. It could happen that prices will keep on rising from now and when correction happens, the lower price may still be higher than what it is now. Also, if correction occurs, do you think there will be that many sellers putting their units on fire sale? Even if there are, do you think you will be one of those lucky dudes getting your hand on those super bargains?

I was quoted a 2-bedder at Floridian in early 2009 at less than $1,200 psf which I found it good but beyond my budget as my CPF OA investment was in very much in the red then. When the share market improves in early 2010 and with more savings on my part, I bought my unit at Cube 8 at around $1,300 psf which became affordable to me even though the price is a new high for that area. I recently came to know that newer releases (better viewing & bigger units) at Floridian in July is going from $1,600 psf.

Therefore, don't buy bcoz you think price is low enough but buy only if you like it and it is within your budget. When prices start to drop, people will worry/hope that it would continue to drop further and will not buy even if price is within their budget. That's just normal people mindset.

I agree. A friend once told me " if it's for self stay and you like it, then it's usually a good investment' - this is because you are investing in your residence-to-be, not trying to flip it off. Also, it's unlikely prices will drop - stabilize yes, but the far north market has been suppressed for too long. There are far too many new developments that will bring rise to the stagnant property prices.

I like Casablanca for it's resort-like ambience but give the unit a thorough glance first. This project was known to most developers to have many building faults largely thanks to FEO's scrimp-saving efforts back then so be sure to get more info.

tboonk
10-08-10, 12:39
I went to view woodsvale, northoaks and casablanca the last weekend. I must say that I like casablaca the best. Very relax feeling, guess it is because it is new. But their asking price is about 788K - 820 K for a 3 bedder 712 psf which is out of my budget of 700K - 750K I think it is a bit ex for me. Between northoaks and woodsvale, i prefer northoaks, big pool etc.
Still i prefer casablanca. Rosewood facilitlies seems not too bad. Will be viewing after agent arrange and see how it goes. I might just drop buying for now and wait if prices for both casa and rose wood are beyond my budget. Just dun know when it will drop. Perhaps a few years?

I guess all of us look at developments differently. I do agree with you that casa does give a resort feel (much more than rosewood) with its nice pool area and it looks newer (though I believe both development are just one year apart) as Rosewood will only be repainting starting in Aug 2010. I chose rosewood then as I feel its internal quality is better, has basement carpark (which is a must for drivers) and it is nearer to amenities.

Good luck and do not let the asking price at Casa bother you. Just make an offer of $730-750k and you may be surprised that some may just let go. I believe you should still get a decent unit at $750k at rosewood though many owners will prefer for the development to be repainted before they make a fresh position to sell or to hold.

cashrich
10-08-10, 17:45
good luck!

you might want to find out the original owner's purchase price

how many transactions has been made since launched..

how much did they sell for...

then you will roughly know how long you have to hold and the selling price in future.

lindatlc
11-08-10, 19:30
Thanks Tboonk and cashrich. Now waiting for agent to look for one around 730K-750K... else will go for northoaks

mantrix
12-08-10, 20:17
Thanks Tboonk and cashrich. Now waiting for agent to look for one around 730K-750K... else will go for northoaks

Go to streetsine.com and check the caveats so you know roughly the average psf and also how mch the condo has appreciated over the years that should give you a better understanding of the market prices...

cashrich
21-08-10, 22:09
Go to streetsine.com and check the caveats so you know roughly the average psf and also how mch the condo has appreciated over the years that should give you a better understanding of the market prices...

hahaha..... good attempt... just remember to add in how much it has appreciated as compared to other condo's which had appreciated more..

the whole island has appreciated generally... oxy moron.

cashrich
24-08-10, 11:47
Hi, it is true, I have called up HDB . My 5 years of occupancy is 01 Oct. I have asked the officer if I can appeal to buy earlier and the answer is no. Will be fine if they found out

Upon further checking it emerged that the first plaintiff had no problems with respect to HDB’s minimum occupation period arising from his obtaining the Option, which is distinct from the exercise of an Option or the sale and purchase of the Property. The relevant statutory provision is section 49A of the Housing and Development Act (Cap 129, 2004 Rev Ed), which only prohibits a sale, and not the mere holding of an option which is not exercised.

solsys
10-11-10, 00:26
Northoaks for me. I've viewed both - go in and see and you'll know. Also, traffic is better and you are not restricted to only causeway point - travel the other way and there's sunplaza + sembawang shopping centre. Rosewood is beside casablanca and with rosewood suites coming up the residential enclave is becoming more congested. Northoaks is beside a huge park and a school - it's Woodsvale that is closer to the HDBs.

Also on SAS - rosewood is not that close anyway. Better to buy woodgrove condo if you really want some proximity (from woodgrove condo it is still a good 10-15 min walk)

If sending kids to SAS, and you need 5 min to drive from rosewood to SAS and 8min from northoaks would u be willing to pay extra 100psf for the 3minutes u save driving?

You may not know this (insider info) but Northoaks is becoming fully privatised this october - prices expected to go up by 5% or more as I've heard many ang moh tenants waiting to offer (who work in the shipyard and their kids go to SAS)

Anyway this is my opinion - at the end of the day, both condos are still value for money cos Woodlands area is still way undervalued (along w yishun / sembawang) along with rest of the market so if it's for self-stay, it will be a good buy. For investment - you might need to wait a tad longer.

You are right on, should view NorthOaks....... but have to emphasize not all units are equal.... some are really good. The price to value is attractive compared to the rest.