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e_kway
12-08-10, 00:11
Hi guys, hoping you guys can help with some advice or opinions on some questions i have with regards to a 2 bedroom property investment in District11.

I have a budget of $850 -$900k and im looking to purchase a studio or 2 bedroom unit in D11 as an investment and rental. I have scouted sites like propertyguru and found that are choices available such as The Ansley, 833M Residences, e Axis, the novas, etc.

1st question - is this going to be money well spent? I have been looking at a few areas and as i said earlier, this is for investment and i would assume that the nearer it is to town the more potential in the property ( old school i know :doh: ) and the nearest i could get to town and i could afford was only in D11. What do you guys think of the potential of the district itself and how much psf do you think its worth now? ( how much would i be counted as overpaying, so that i wont make the wrong decision when if i eventually do decide to buy a property within d11.

2nd Question - I see a significant difference in price in terms of location, of properties in District 11. For example, properties along evelyn road ( also district 11 ) are priced way out of my reach but projects along Mandalay Road is significantly lower. Will investment in these area be worth spending $850k for these properties and will it be a money well spent is my question?

3rd Question, with my current budget,im restricted to a Studio or a 2 bedder in that area. Im looking at 700sqft and above. Another amatuerish question would be, would a 1 bedder ( im assuming its also called a studio ) be more worth buying or a 2 bedder.

4rd Question - Any positive or negative comments or recommendation in terms of property choice within d11? i have shortlisted a few which fits my criteria of ( 700sqft and above and below 900k in District 11)
I have come up with a preliminary stat based on the listing on PropertyGuru

The Ansley- One Bedroom 732sqft $900k- Rental$3300*
Mandale heights- One Bedroom 764sqft $829k- Rental$3300*
833M Residences - One Bedroom 889Sqft $860k - Rental$3200*
De Paradiso - Two Bedroom 904Sqft $850k - Rental$3200*
The Axis - TBC
The Mezzo - TBC
I Residences - TBC
Nova48 - TBC
Nova88 - TBC
M21 Residences - TBC

Please bear with my limited knowledge of the property market, im very young and new to this as this is my first property investment and im hoping to learn more of the market sentiment and trends and opinions of investors and property buyers.

Thanks

gfoo
12-08-10, 00:38
my friend bought a nice new patek, so i just had to have a new watch too
finally settled on a glashutte coz i couldn't really afford a patek. a few months later, hour glass had a sale, and the patek was discounted to the same price as i paid for the glashutte

devilplate
12-08-10, 01:24
my friend bought a nice new patek, so i just had to have a new watch too
finally settled on a glashutte coz i couldn't really afford a patek. a few months later, hour glass had a sale, and the patek was discounted to the same price as i paid for the glashutte

wow! patek got so much discount?

GSS coming soon? The Azure 1300psf got chance anot?:D

gfoo
12-08-10, 02:04
wow! patek got so much discount?

GSS coming soon? The Azure 1300psf got chance anot?:D

now no view oceanfront 1700psf liao. just a year ago, the azure was going for 1200psf no? but i wouldn't. pulau blakang mati dey

orange
12-08-10, 03:53
my friend bought a nice new patek, so i just had to have a new watch too
finally settled on a glashutte coz i couldn't really afford a patek. a few months later, hour glass had a sale, and the patek was discounted to the same price as i paid for the glashutte

Mind letting us know which Patek and which glashutte?:D :D :D

I am aiming for either the 5712r on leather strap or the nautilus flyback chrono in steel but can't bring myself to spend so much!

Am getting over the AP offshore thingie as I get older.... Their watches are frankly, getting a little ridiculous also... The offshore grand prix looks like something from the playground... Bring back the JPM or the EOD, I say!

orange
12-08-10, 04:08
Mind letting us know which Patek and which glashutte?:D :D :D

I am aiming for either the 5712r on leather strap or the nautilus flyback chrono in steel but can't bring myself to spend so much!

Am getting over the AP offshore thingie as I get older.... Their watches are frankly, getting a little ridiculous also... The offshore grand prix looks like something from the playground... Bring back the JPM or the EOD, I say!

Well a JPM will currently cost around the same as a brand new 5712r.... An EOD probably 50% more than brand new nautilus chrono. And the tough part is finding a mint, lightly used example as they are so rare, being limited ed. Hmm I'll probably still buy the APs if I can find them! Time to move on from my unlimited edition APs..:D

gfoo
12-08-10, 09:46
Mind letting us know which Patek and which glashutte?:D :D :D

I am aiming for either the 5712r on leather strap or the nautilus flyback chrono in steel but can't bring myself to spend so much!

Am getting over the AP offshore thingie as I get older.... Their watches are frankly, getting a little ridiculous also... The offshore grand prix looks like something from the playground... Bring back the JPM or the EOD, I say!

parable lah. personally i prefer als to pp

august
12-08-10, 10:21
2nd Question - I see a significant difference in price in terms of location, of properties in District 11. For example, properties along evelyn road ( also district 11 ) are priced way out of my reach but projects along Mandalay Road is significantly lower. Will investment in these area be worth spending $850k for these properties and will it be a money well spent is my question?

4rd Question - Any positive or negative comments or recommendation in terms of property choice within d11? i have shortlisted a few which fits my criteria of ( 700sqft and above and below 900k in District 11)
I have come up with a preliminary stat based on the listing on PropertyGuru



my humble 1 cent...

to me the balestier area is like clinging on the coat tails of novena/newton but will never be quite there

actually for 800 to 900k u can get a 99LH condo in OCR (outside central region) with spare change and comparable rental & near mrt

tericia
12-08-10, 12:00
Hi guys, hoping you guys can help with some advice or opinions on some questions i have with regards to a 2 bedroom property investment in District11.

I have a budget of $850 -$900k and im looking to purchase a studio or 2 bedroom unit in D11 as an investment and rental. I have scouted sites like propertyguru and found that are choices available such as The Ansley, 833M Residences, e Axis, the novas, etc.

1st question - is this going to be money well spent? I have been looking at a few areas and as i said earlier, this is for investment and i would assume that the nearer it is to town the more potential in the property ( old school i know :doh: ) and the nearest i could get to town and i could afford was only in D11. What do you guys think of the potential of the district itself and how much psf do you think its worth now? ( how much would i be counted as overpaying, so that i wont make the wrong decision when if i eventually do decide to buy a property within d11.

2nd Question - I see a significant difference in price in terms of location, of properties in District 11. For example, properties along evelyn road ( also district 11 ) are priced way out of my reach but projects along Mandalay Road is significantly lower. Will investment in these area be worth spending $850k for these properties and will it be a money well spent is my question?

3rd Question, with my current budget,im restricted to a Studio or a 2 bedder in that area. Im looking at 700sqft and above. Another amatuerish question would be, would a 1 bedder ( im assuming its also called a studio ) be more worth buying or a 2 bedder.

4rd Question - Any positive or negative comments or recommendation in terms of property choice within d11? i have shortlisted a few which fits my criteria of ( 700sqft and above and below 900k in District 11)
I have come up with a preliminary stat based on the listing on PropertyGuru

The Ansley- One Bedroom 732sqft $900k- Rental$3300*
Mandale heights- One Bedroom 764sqft $829k- Rental$3300*
833M Residences - One Bedroom 889Sqft $860k - Rental$3200*
De Paradiso - Two Bedroom 904Sqft $850k - Rental$3200*
The Axis - TBC
The Mezzo - TBC
I Residences - TBC
Nova48 - TBC
Nova88 - TBC
M21 Residences - TBC

Please bear with my limited knowledge of the property market, im very young and new to this as this is my first property investment and im hoping to learn more of the market sentiment and trends and opinions of investors and property buyers.

Thanks


i always felt balestier is a fantastic place to buy if you don't mind the state of the area with the people that rent and linger there

for about 6 months i stayed in that area cuz due to some poor planning i couldn't move into any of my own place and the one i was staying at was sold as the price was really irresistable

i've to say i was very sceptical about the area when i first rented there but my opinion changed after i went there

my aunt owns 2 units in that area so i feel she's a veteran compared to me and when she says balestier is worth it, i feel she's right

in general however, in response to your post, district 11 at balestier i feel is a poor buy

why because the prices of district 11 and say district 12, 13 are not the same but the project can be just 1 street away

the tenant won't know the difference in the price you pay if it's just a street away and they won't haggle of over the rent cuz they think the part of balestier they rent is district 11

if you want pedigree 11 then buy into those area

as for district 9 and 10, even the worst projects in that area i feel are always worth buys. Why? Because like jlrx says, better you buy when you're uncertain than you don't (assuming you know how to hedge with the management of rental, etc)

there are diverse opinions on 1 bedrooms, my advice is to check the numbers. They don't lie and they don't have agendas like humans posts.

There are lots of projects in district 9 and 10 where the numbers work out in your favour, depending on what numbers you concentrate on.

Like my ex boss always say, buy to invest, district 9 and 10. Buy to stay, don't buy such nice districts, district 11 for stay is ok.

But then my ex boss stays down the road from the late great Ng Teng Fong so that's his definition of don't need to buy such nice districts to stay.

All the best on your journey

Regulators
12-08-10, 12:56
those you see people selling at the back alleys are different from those you get in hour glass. i think you are speaking to the wrong people here..


Mind letting us know which Patek and which glashutte?:D :D :D

I am aiming for either the 5712r on leather strap or the nautilus flyback chrono in steel but can't bring myself to spend so much!

Am getting over the AP offshore thingie as I get older.... Their watches are frankly, getting a little ridiculous also... The offshore grand prix looks like something from the playground... Bring back the JPM or the EOD, I say!

teddybear
12-08-10, 15:48
Beware of the parts of D9 & D10 which are poorer cousins of the core D9 & D10 hor! (Not all D9 & D10 are good! :scared-5:) (Just like beware of the poorer cousins of D11 in Balestier area vs those in core D11 Newton & Novena areas hor!).


i always felt balestier is a fantastic place to buy if you don't mind the state of the area with the people that rent and linger there

for about 6 months i stayed in that area cuz due to some poor planning i couldn't move into any of my own place and the one i was staying at was sold as the price was really irresistable

i've to say i was very sceptical about the area when i first rented there but my opinion changed after i went there

my aunt owns 2 units in that area so i feel she's a veteran compared to me and when she says balestier is worth it, i feel she's right

in general however, in response to your post, district 11 at balestier i feel is a poor buy

why because the prices of district 11 and say district 12, 13 are not the same but the project can be just 1 street away

the tenant won't know the difference in the price you pay if it's just a street away and they won't haggle of over the rent cuz they think the part of balestier they rent is district 11

if you want pedigree 11 then buy into those area

as for district 9 and 10, even the worst projects in that area i feel are always worth buys. Why? Because like jlrx says, better you buy when you're uncertain than you don't (assuming you know how to hedge with the management of rental, etc)

there are diverse opinions on 1 bedrooms, my advice is to check the numbers. They don't lie and they don't have agendas like humans posts.

There are lots of projects in district 9 and 10 where the numbers work out in your favour, depending on what numbers you concentrate on.

Like my ex boss always say, buy to invest, district 9 and 10. Buy to stay, don't buy such nice districts, district 11 for stay is ok.

But then my ex boss stays down the road from the late great Ng Teng Fong so that's his definition of don't need to buy such nice districts to stay.

All the best on your journey

tericia
12-08-10, 15:52
Beware of the parts of D9 & D10 which are poorer cousins of the core D9 & D10 hor! (Not all D9 & D10 are good! :scared-5:) (Just like beware of the poorer cousins of D11 in Balestier area vs those in core D11 Newton & Novena areas hor!).


yes as the not so fine prints state in my post, it's my personal opinion :)

orange
12-08-10, 16:14
parable lah. personally i prefer als to pp

i know i know.. actually it is more of an analogy than anything.:D

anyway.

hey do you know if R2D does servicing and repair work for Mini Cooper (the BMW one)

gfoo
12-08-10, 16:26
i know i know.. actually it is more of an analogy than anything.:D

anyway.

hey do you know if R2D does servicing and repair work for Mini Cooper (the BMW one)

yup all cars! the only garage that has a degree holder working on your car - his care and expertise is bar none!

jlrx
12-08-10, 16:54
Beware of the parts of D9 & D10 which are poorer cousins of the core D9 & D10 hor! (Not all D9 & D10 are good! :scared-5:) (Just like beware of the poorer cousins of D11 in Balestier area vs those in core D11 Newton & Novena areas hor!).

I know teddybear will appear to warn about the poorer cousins within D9 and 10 when I read the earlier posts! :p

teddybear is the guardian of the elite part of D9 and 10. :spliff:

orange
12-08-10, 17:00
yup all cars! the only garage that has a degree holder working on your car - his care and expertise is bar none!

ok i'll see him then... heard a lot about rod. previously i went to J4C and BVO cos they are better located.

btw, Boss Motorsports also engineering degree holder...

orange
12-08-10, 17:07
I know teddybear will appear to warn about the poorer cousins within D9 and 10 when I read the earlier posts! :p

teddybear is the guardian of the elite part of D9 and 10. :spliff:

therein lies the strength of marketing. even if properties were located in the "poorer" parts of D9 and 10, they come out in the same section of the classifieds, they get advertised overseas in the same prime district.

so IMO district numbers actually matter a lot. because many of the foreign buyers do not know any better!

for someone rich who doesn't know singapore and doesn't really care, who just wants to invest in a good quality residential property in a good district, i dare say he may overlook D11 Newton and go for D10 Mount Sinai even if they were the same price... in most cases Mount Sinai is cheaper than Newton so this silly dude will probably think he got a good deal!

devilplate
12-08-10, 17:14
toking about foreigners....did u guys so lucky enuff to fish a silly foreigner buyer b4 such as pay 100k or more above market value

it nvr happen to me b4:(

jlrx
12-08-10, 17:51
toking about foreigners....did u guys so lucky enuff to fish a silly foreigner buyer b4 such as pay 100k or more above market value

it nvr happen to me b4:(

This type of deal you must work with private bankers.


Business Times - 16 Aug 2006

CapitaLand's Scotts HighPark goes for $1,800 psf

By ARTHUR SIM

CAPITALAND is targeting the higher end of the prime residential property market by pricing its latest offering, Scotts HighPark, at an average of $1,800 psf. Already, it says that one unit was sold for more than $2,000 psf.
...

Giving an idea of the profile of its clientele, the buyer who set the benchmark price is said to have been an European high net worth individual, brought in by his Hong Kong private banker.

dmonddd
22-08-10, 10:34
I know teddybear will appear to warn about the poorer cousins within D9 and 10 when I read the earlier posts! :p

teddybear is the guardian of the elite part of D9 and 10. :spliff:

huh the bear always confuse others with his/her comments
if u on active discussions with him, you will know. his statements are in conflict of own

dmonddd
22-08-10, 10:38
nowadays in prime area difficult to find unblocked view like HK esp. in highly sought areas...most important is environment...that X factor that will differentiate one project from another

if u hv seen the newly TOP project in D12, the X factor is not there.....but the layout is great that's th selling point

Wild Falcon
22-08-10, 17:55
I think I'm going to be a little contrarian here but I don't it is absolutely necessary to buy the most "elite" part of D9, D10 or D11 - if these are only 3 districts you're looking for. D12 is actually ok. The Novena part of D11 is more sought after only because of the Novena MRT station and there're currently few freehold condos near MRT stations. But this is going to change. In fact, those new condos in D12 are NOT inferior to the new ones in D11 in terms of design. Only problem is the lack of an MRT station and some past "sleazy" reputation. In short, you have to identify why a certain area within a district fetches a premium and whether that premium is still justified say 3 years later. If the answer is NO, then you should just buy those that are currently undervalued, even if it is not in the most swanky part of that district. I believe district lines are being blurred, and with small units taking dominance in D11 Novena or even D9 in River Valley, the prestige is going to evaporate. And foreign investors are not as stupid as you think and only know district numbers and nothing else.

isaaclim
22-08-10, 18:46
Please don't be mistaken by the current situation. Market is just perparing for next round. Once all the mass market stablized, only then it is sensible for high end properties to go for their history high.

Do take note prime is a classification. Those districts are prime for some reason.

Let's just wait and see...

Wild Falcon
22-08-10, 19:16
Who are you parroting? This same story about high-end (more than $5 million) is going to lead the way has been going around for 2 years and it still has not happened. But a bottom up recovery is actually a good thing. The historic high for CCR was a bubble to begin with (URA index was like 200?). It will not reach there any time soon unless foreign investors (I mean dumb ones) invest in a big way. A lot of CCR condos have no X factor - just build small units on small plots of land with minimal facilities - a person who enjoys the good things in life in unlikely to want to stay in a house less than 1000sf. These are mostly the wannabes. And wannabes do not have a big budget - so units are getting small in River Valley or even Novena - developers doing everything to attract the wannabes - building mainly small 2 bedders or studios to keep them affordable.


Please don't be mistaken by the current situation. Market is just perparing for next round. Once all the mass market stablized, only then it is sensible for high end properties to go for their history high.

Do take note prime is a classification. Those districts are prime for some reason.

Let's just wait and see...

Wild Falcon
22-08-10, 19:30
Let's look at the URA index (forget about what those experts say - they're all spinning stories and using stats to achieve their own agenda)

Highest point (1Q 2008)
CCR highest point = 200
RCR highest point = 160
OCR highest point = 150

Today (2Q 2010)
CCR = 195
RCR = 174
OCR = 171

What I'm trying to say is that even though CCR today is at 195 and slightly lower than 200 in Q12008, it is still significantly HIGHER than other regions! RCR and OCR are still only languishing at an index of 170+. But our dear EXPERTS out there will always go around saying that CCR is undervalued because it has not hit the historical high of 200 when 200 could be a bubble not supported by fundamentals.

In short, whoever who invested in CCR at an index of 200 in Q1'2008 must be underperforming those in OCR or RCR (there will always be outliers projects but the average index doesn't lie). Even today, it is more important to look at the index instead of listening to some of these experts. They're using statistics in a way that benefit themselves. There're a lot of almost TOP prime or high-end properties that are not even half sold. They have to spin the right stories to move those units. The mass market units are still moving - so less need to spin stories to move units.

devilplate
22-08-10, 19:56
i agree up to a certain extent...CCR havent hit its previous high doesnt mean its undervalued now...just like STI still a far cry from 3800pts while PPI oredi at all time high and tat doesnt mean STI is undervalued?:beats-me-man:

i also believe tat every segment takes turn to shine...:D

isaaclim
22-08-10, 20:05
Let's look at the URA index (forget about what those experts say - they're all spinning stories and using stats to achieve their own agenda)

Highest point (1Q 2008)
CCR highest point = 200
RCR highest point = 160
OCR highest point = 150

Today (2Q 2010)
CCR = 195
RCR = 174
OCR = 171

What I'm trying to say is that even though CCR today is at 195 and slightly lower than 200 in Q12008, it is still significantly HIGHER than other regions! RCR and OCR are still only languishing at an index of 170+. But our dear EXPERTS out there will always go around saying that CCR is undervalued because it has not hit the historical high of 200 when 200 could be a bubble not supported by fundamentals.

In short, whoever who invested in CCR at an index of 200 in Q1'2008 must be underperforming those in OCR or RCR (there will always be outliers projects but the average index doesn't lie). Even today, it is more important to look at the index instead of listening to some of these experts. They're using statistics in a way that benefit themselves. There're a lot of almost TOP prime or high-end properties that are not even half sold. They have to spin the right stories to move those units. The mass market units are still moving - so less need to spin stories to move units.

I have to response because you may have misunderstood my statement. Please do take note I don't claim i am expert. Seriously i am not.

The following are just two messages I want to bring across:
- Prime district is a classification. It is just for easy referencing and comparing. But district 12 is definitely NOT prime. Prime = No.1. Which part of district 12 can be ranked No.1 for housing related factor?
- Look at the rate of appreciation in Mass market. Do you see that kind of appreciation in Prime district? Not yet right? So, it is yet to come. Why not yet? The targeted group of investor are still busy fire flighting at their own garden. This is a market segment that cannot be moved by us.

This is a open forum. It is up to individual to comment and to believe.

teddybear
22-08-10, 20:18
Property is about location, location, location! The reason why D9, D10, D11 are most sought after are because of their central locations. Simple as that. Those in Novena are seeing strong interests because of:
1) central and convenient location
2) very close to MRT station (an underground one; those above ground that are super noisy if nearby and thus undersirable!)
3a) 3 shopping malls all around the MRT station 3b) Walking distance to the best enrichment and tuition schools in Singapore
4) Close to Singapore's best primary schools (SJI Junior, ACS Junior, ACS Baker, SCGS).
5) Many are Freehold.

Could you find another place with all these attributes? Foreigners are not stupid, when they think about their conveniency in driving, public transport, their children's education and ease in travelling to school and entering primary schools' priority, ease in sending their kids to the best enrichment and tuition schools in Singapore, then the choice is obvious. :D


I think I'm going to be a little contrarian here but I don't it is absolutely necessary to buy the most "elite" part of D9, D10 or D11 - if these are only 3 districts you're looking for. D12 is actually ok. The Novena part of D11 is more sought after only because of the Novena MRT station and there're currently few freehold condos near MRT stations. But this is going to change. In fact, those new condos in D12 are NOT inferior to the new ones in D11 in terms of design. Only problem is the lack of an MRT station and some past "sleazy" reputation. In short, you have to identify why a certain area within a district fetches a premium and whether that premium is still justified say 3 years later. If the answer is NO, then you should just buy those that are currently undervalued, even if it is not in the most swanky part of that district. I believe district lines are being blurred, and with small units taking dominance in D11 Novena or even D9 in River Valley, the prestige is going to evaporate. And foreign investors are not as stupid as you think and only know district numbers and nothing else.

Geylang OKT
22-08-10, 21:26
Balestier area still has lots of sleazy massage parlours that have not been cleaned up. So do D9, D10, D11 have them as well? Only then can we say that they are on par :D

teddybear
22-08-10, 23:26
Please give more concrete evidence of what you said. A blanket smearing effort is useless. From your previous statements, you have been saying your exclusive Residences@Evelyn in "Newton" is the best but evidence has shown that Park Infinia in Novena is more popular. :tongue3:


huh the bear always confuse others with his/her comments
if u on active discussions with him, you will know. his statements are in conflict of own

teddybear
22-08-10, 23:29
Yes Sir, Mr Guardian of landed properties. :cheers4:


I know teddybear will appear to warn about the poorer cousins within D9 and 10 when I read the earlier posts! :p

teddybear is the guardian of the elite part of D9 and 10. :spliff:

Wild Falcon
23-08-10, 11:22
Some people believe in investing in the best and most expensive unit along the same street. Some people prefer to invest in the WORST and cheapest unit along the same street (greater room to improve). I think the threadstarter now has different "advice" :) He just have to make his own decision based on his "gut feel".

Wild Falcon
23-08-10, 11:25
Did you not read about the 15 landed properties acquired by our government to build "high density developments" near the DTL3? Those are FH landed properties. In short, FH landed not very "safe" :( I was quite shocked - if the land is acquired for MRT construction, then it is in some ways justified. How can government take away the land for "high density development"? And make all the money while leaving the owners high and dry?


Yes Sir, Mr Guardian of landed properties. :cheers4:

DC33_2008
23-08-10, 13:17
It is really unfortunate. Need to study the surrounding carefully before buying property. This site is rather "isolated" and right in front of a "narrow busy road". Watch out for these two signs in inverted commas.

teddybear
23-08-10, 14:20
That is the problem with places with no existing MRT stations. To build new MRT stations, the existing buildings (in this case the landed properties) have to make way else how to build? After building the MRT stations, the land around MRT stations is suitable for high-rise building right? The land acquisition I believe is for "national development"? Getting market compensation already should be laughing! Ask those whose land get acquired >=15 years ago and how much they get vs market rate?


Did you not read about the 15 landed properties acquired by our government to build "high density developments" near the DTL3? Those are FH landed properties. In short, FH landed not very "safe" :( I was quite shocked - if the land is acquired for MRT construction, then it is in some ways justified. How can government take away the land for "high density development"? And make all the money while leaving the owners high and dry?

DC33_2008
23-08-10, 14:45
But these landed properties are about 1.1 km from the station.
That is the problem with places with no existing MRT stations. To build new MRT stations, the existing buildings (in this case the landed properties) have to make way else how to build? After building the MRT stations, the land around MRT stations is suitable for high-rise building right? The land acquisition I believe is for "national development"? Getting market compensation already should be laughing! Ask those whose land get acquired >=15 years ago and how much they get vs market rate?

teddybear
23-08-10, 14:59
Ops, like that ah. :confused::scared-3:
Can these owners have the choice not to sell? Die die also don't sell? :p


But these landed properties are about 1.1 km from the station.

DC33_2008
23-08-10, 15:14
There is a clause on land acquisition in the local property law which works against land owners. In the past, I saw some land semi-Ds along braddell road which got their driveway sold off to make way for slip-road into expressway. Just hard luck. Just hope it is not like the $1 carpark.

bargain hunter
23-08-10, 20:18
PRECISELY! i drive past those 15 properties every week so i am REALLY shocked! unlike the little driveway or drain that the govt takes back, this time, they buy in whole! 1 of them is a bunglow somemore. there is already a piece of state land behind this row of houses for the "high density housing" so the reason why those are cleared out is so that when the 3 old hdb blocks are en-bloc, they really have a large piece of land for high density. :doh:




Did you not read about the 15 landed properties acquired by our government to build "high density developments" near the DTL3? Those are FH landed properties. In short, FH landed not very "safe" :( I was quite shocked - if the land is acquired for MRT construction, then it is in some ways justified. How can government take away the land for "high density development"? And make all the money while leaving the owners high and dry?

Wild Falcon
23-08-10, 23:26
Must really go and read the land acqusition act oredi.

If the government is taking your landed property for public goods, e.g. build roads, MRT or drains - it is in some ways justified. At least you can tell yourself you're contributing to the welfare of the wider society. But to take away your land to "flip" to other developers for high density developments - i.e. purely profiteering - how can that be justified? I'm feeling really indignant for the 15 households - esp the old auntie who looked so helpless on TV. The government can increase the plot ratio, and let the landed owners benefit from it by enbloc to private developers. The "market price" today would NOT have factored in the increase in plot ratio or the MRT station. In short, the government laughs all the way to the bank from this simple flip.

For those who own landed property near future or upcoming unannounced MRT stations (ERL or Thomson), better be mentally prepared. Anytime can anyhow acquire your land for "high density development" one. Don't even need to justify using the "public good" reason.

proud owner
23-08-10, 23:50
Must really go and read the land acqusition act oredi.

If the government is taking your landed property for public goods, e.g. build roads, MRT or drains - it is in some ways justified. At least you can tell yourself you're contributing to the welfare of the wider society. But to take away your land to "flip" to other developers for high density developments - i.e. purely profiteering - how can that be justified? I'm feeling really indignant for the 15 households - esp the old auntie who looked so helpless on TV. The government can increase the plot ratio, and let the landed owners benefit from it by enbloc to private developers. The "market price" today would NOT have factored in the increase in plot ratio or the MRT station. In short, the government laughs all the way to the bank from this simple flip.

For those who own landed property near future or upcoming unannounced MRT stations (ERL or Thomson), better be mentally prepared. Anytime can anyhow acquire your land for "high density development" one. Don't even need to justify using the "public good" reason.

thats why when buying landed ... make sure you are buying .. "designated landed ' ... and not ' non-designated landed "


non designated landed houses sit on land that can be used for both landed and condo ..

example .. the entire terok kurau is NON designated landed .. hence so many 4-5 storey condos spring up everywhere ...

another example is Sixth Ave, hence the old Dynasty, the current Sixth ave residences .. in fact even Coronation , Watten, ..

also , almost the entire pasir panjang ..except Springwood .. hence you can find Flynn park, Island view, Treasure place, Bayvile, Sarhad vile , and all the condos along pasir panjang and pasir panjang hill ..

trump7
24-08-10, 00:02
I have to response because you may have misunderstood my statement. Please do take note I don't claim i am expert. Seriously i am not.

The following are just two messages I want to bring across:
- Prime district is a classification. It is just for easy referencing and comparing. But district 12 is definitely NOT prime. Prime = No.1. Which part of district 12 can be ranked No.1 for housing related factor?
- Look at the rate of appreciation in Mass market. Do you see that kind of appreciation in Prime district? Not yet right? So, it is yet to come. Why not yet? The targeted group of investor are still busy fire flighting at their own garden. This is a market segment that cannot be moved by us.

This is a open forum. It is up to individual to comment and to believe.

Totally agreed with your two messages. In fact, that was what i wanted to tell.
Just realized how differently people read, analyze and perceive from same figures and index!:rolleyes:

amk
24-08-10, 00:11
those in Novena are seeing strong interests because of:
...
4) Close to Singapore's best primary schools (SJI Junior, ACS Junior, ACS Baker, SCGS).


erhhm, teddy this time I need to disagree with u on this one ;)

Bukit Timah / Watten / Duchess / Coronation area are really close to Singapore's "best" primary schools (Nanyang, Raffles Girls, Pei Hua, Henry Park) ;)

SCGS .. hmmm... tai tai quality leh.... :D

(ok they are all in district 10..)

proud owner
24-08-10, 00:13
erhhm, teddy this time I need to disagree with u on this one ;)

Bukit Timah / Watten / Duchess / Coronation area are really close to Singapore's "best" primary schools (Nanyang, Raffles Girls, Pei Hua, Henry Park) ;)

SCGS .. hmmm... tai tai quality leh.... :D

(ok they are all in district 10..)


but bkt timah, coronation duchess area NO real MRT ..even if has its Circle line ..right ?

and flood prone

amk
24-08-10, 00:18
I was only referring to his point abt "best primary school" lah ! :)

in any case, Bt Timah now got Downtown Line already. Come 2015 every one will claim "near to MRT". ;) In fact it's a "better" MRT some more, not like circle line round-abt going no where.

amk
24-08-10, 00:23
Must really go and read the land acqusition act oredi.

If the government is taking your landed property for public goods.....

ok for argument sake, say come 2013 master plan, government so decides to raise my FH pty's plot ratio from 1.4 to 2.8, am I supposed to repay the government for "increasing" my pty's value ?

... it's not so simple when it comes to land "value".... I'm not convinced the gov is doing this for money. I really think gov decides it's a better use of land.

as to "designated" landed, pointless lah. even law can be changed one u know ? ;)

devilplate
24-08-10, 00:24
dtl2 will be under utilised? looks like it is build for bukit panjang/cashew residents :D

proud owner
24-08-10, 00:29
ok for argument sake, say come 2013 master plan, government so decides to raise my FH pty's plot ratio from 1.4 to 2.8, am I supposed to repay the government for "increasing" my pty's value ?

... it's not so simple when it comes to land "value".... I'm not convinced the gov is doing this for money. I really think gov decides it's a better use of land.

as to "designated" landed, pointless lah. even law can be changed one u know ? ;)

if i am not wrong the land acquisition law said govt has the right to buy back part of land ( never said WHOLE) for use like road widening ..etc ..

never to buy whole land and sell to developer to build 99 LH condo leh ..

like someone mentioned earlier .. if can ..then the owners themselves can sell to developers waht >? why must go thru govt to let them make the money ?

if thats the case then PROPERTISM doesnt work anymore

amk
24-08-10, 00:40
.. if can ..then the owners themselves can sell to developers waht >? why must go thru govt to let them make the money ?


because gov can force buy, pte developers cannot.

orange
24-08-10, 04:04
erhhm, teddy this time I need to disagree with u on this one ;)

Bukit Timah / Watten / Duchess / Coronation area are really close to Singapore's "best" primary schools (Nanyang, Raffles Girls, Pei Hua, Henry Park) ;)

SCGS .. hmmm... tai tai quality leh.... :D

(ok they are all in district 10..)

you all want to discuss prime districts, at least know what you are discussing.

D11 is not just newton novena. 3/4 of the dunearn rd stretch is also D11, in fact that area is many times larger than the newton novena pocket.

nyps, hwa chong and henry park are D10

acs barker, scgs, rgps and nygh are D11

mgs and peihwa are D21

as any born and bred bukit timah resident would know.

bukit timah rd is D10, dunearn rd is D11.

teddybear
24-08-10, 08:05
But those 4 you said are not within 2km boundaries lei. Cannot satisfy MOE criteria of 2km distance compared to the 4 I mentioned.


erhhm, teddy this time I need to disagree with u on this one ;)

Bukit Timah / Watten / Duchess / Coronation area are really close to Singapore's "best" primary schools (Nanyang, Raffles Girls, Pei Hua, Henry Park) ;)

SCGS .. hmmm... tai tai quality leh.... :D

(ok they are all in district 10..)

Wild Falcon
24-08-10, 11:20
So in short, government can take your land based on whatever reason they deem fit :) So it's just "heng" "sway" oredi...


ok for argument sake, say come 2013 master plan, government so decides to raise my FH pty's plot ratio from 1.4 to 2.8, am I supposed to repay the government for "increasing" my pty's value ?

... it's not so simple when it comes to land "value".... I'm not convinced the gov is doing this for money. I really think gov decides it's a better use of land.

as to "designated" landed, pointless lah. even law can be changed one u know ? ;)

Wild Falcon
24-08-10, 11:26
Won't be underutlisied. A lot of students and non-driving expats. Look at the Maplewood free shuttle bus that always hog the right lane. Next time those Maplewood residents who take the shuttle to Newton can take MRT already :) The bus stops along Dunearn Rd are usually quite crowded - in short, there is demand. You need to be 18 before daddy buys you a car u know!

In fact, the bus stops at Cashew is usually empty!

But I think both the CCL and DTL3 will be under-used. Because both are not radial lines - which means got to travel in an inefficient and roundabout manner to get to town which means most will give up. ERL should be another radial line that will be well used - look at those Bus 16 that goes Marine Parade - always crowded like siao.


dtl2 will be under utilised? looks like it is build for bukit panjang/cashew residents :D

Wild Falcon
24-08-10, 11:41
It all depends on the base year you're looking at

CCR index = 195 (Q4'98 = 100)
Mass index = 171

It means prime has increased 95% (CAGR 7.9%) relative to 1998 while mass/mid has only increase 71% relative to 1998 (CAGR 5.9%). So CCR has actually appreciated more if we use 1998 as the base year.

And please note this is an index relative to the original base price. I have never said prime and mid will become the SAME PRICE. I'm not sure how people read that way. I'm just saying considering CCR has increased at a faster rate - CAGR of 7.9% from 1998, it is about time the rate of increase come down - while the rest start to catch up. This theory has been proven to be correct in the past 2 years. And I always like to use the developed country vs the developing country analogy. I'm not saying a developing country will become developed overnight. I'm just saying the opportunity to grow and rate of growth should be higher. That's why countries in Europe stuggle to grow at 3% per annum while China or Vietnam or Philippines has no problem growing at more than 7%. So if you have money to invest, where do you place your bets?

No right or wrong answer. Just different investment strategies.


I have to response because you may have misunderstood my statement. Please do take note I don't claim i am expert. Seriously i am not.

The following are just two messages I want to bring across:
- Prime district is a classification. It is just for easy referencing and comparing. But district 12 is definitely NOT prime. Prime = No.1. Which part of district 12 can be ranked No.1 for housing related factor?
- Look at the rate of appreciation in Mass market. Do you see that kind of appreciation in Prime district? Not yet right? So, it is yet to come. Why not yet? The targeted group of investor are still busy fire flighting at their own garden. This is a market segment that cannot be moved by us.

This is a open forum. It is up to individual to comment and to believe.

devilplate
24-08-10, 12:09
Won't be underutlisied. A lot of students and non-driving expats. Look at the Maplewood free shuttle bus that always hog the right lane. Next time those Maplewood residents who take the shuttle to Newton can take MRT already :) The bus stops along Dunearn Rd are usually quite crowded - in short, there is demand. You need to be 18 before daddy buys you a car u know!

In fact, the bus stops at Cashew is usually empty!

But I think both the CCL and DTL3 will be under-used. Because both are not radial lines - which means got to travel in an inefficient and roundabout manner to get to town which means most will give up. ERL should be another radial line that will be well used - look at those Bus 16 that goes Marine Parade - always crowded like siao.

dtl2 serves many industrial areas...whr got under utilised???? many stns located at HDB too....HDB dwellers rely heavily on public tpt...unlike dtl2

devilplate
24-08-10, 12:13
It all depends on the base year you're looking at

CCR index = 195 (Q4'98 = 100)
Mass index = 171

It means prime has increased 95% (CAGR 7.9%) relative to 1998 while mass/mid has only increase 71% relative to 1998 (CAGR 5.9%). So CCR has actually appreciated more if we use 1998 as the base year.

And please note this is an index relative to the original base price. I have never said prime and mid will become the SAME PRICE. I'm not sure how people read that way. I'm just saying considering CCR has increased at a faster rate - CAGR of 7.9% from 1998, it is about time the rate of increase come down - while the rest start to catch up. This theory has been proven to be correct in the past 2 years. And I always like to use the developed country vs the developing country analogy. I'm not saying a developing country will become developed overnight. I'm just saying the opportunity to grow and rate of growth should be higher. That's why countries in Europe stuggle to grow at 3% per annum while China or Vietnam or Philippines has no problem growing at more than 7%. So if you have money to invest, where do you place your bets?

No right or wrong answer. Just different investment strategies.

so u bot prime ppty during 2005 and sell in 2007 and bot mass market last yr lows?

amk
24-08-10, 14:11
But those 4 you said are not within 2km boundaries lei. Cannot satisfy MOE criteria of 2km distance compared to the 4 I mentioned.

huh teddy I knew u will say this. ;)
yes they are all within 2k for these good schools. I'm just saying these schools are not "the best primary schools". ;) But yes they are good enough to be a very important plus point for novena/newton pties.

orange, wah u take it so seriously. yes yes thank you. poor lowly amk not born and bred true blue blood Bt Timah'ers ok, happy ? ;)

amk
24-08-10, 14:17
It all depends on the base year you're looking at


that's true.

so who will outperform the now ? there seems to have more empty/upcoming CCRs than OCRs.

teddybear
24-08-10, 16:17
Actually it is difficult to say which is the best in terms of ranking because different top schools have different emphasis. E.g. SJI Junior produces good sportsmen. SCGS you said produce good tai tai? :D (but don't think tai tai in bad light, I found them to be very sensible, understanding, presentable, and elegent! Much better choice as wife than girls from many other schools!). Also, their results are really top in terms of %age getting A* and A. This vs other top schools whose emphasis is just producing 1 or 2 top scorers (but their %age getting A* and A are actually lower)!


huh teddy I knew u will say this. ;)
yes they are all within 2k for these good schools. I'm just saying these schools are not "the best primary schools". ;) But yes they are good enough to be a very important plus point for novena/newton pties.

orange, wah u take it so seriously. yes yes thank you. poor lowly amk not born and bred true blue blood Bt Timah'ers ok, happy ? ;)

devilplate
24-08-10, 16:28
y enrol ur kids into top schools? top schools produce nerds...:p

orange
24-08-10, 19:10
Actually it is difficult to say which is the best in terms of ranking because different top schools have different emphasis. E.g. SJI Junior produces good sportsmen. SCGS you said produce good tai tai? :D (but don't think tai tai in bad light, I found them to be very sensible, understanding, presentable, and elegent! Much better choice as wife than girls from many other schools!). Also, their results are really top in terms of %age getting A* and A. This vs other top schools whose emphasis is just producing 1 or 2 top scorers (but their %age getting A* and A are actually lower)!


SCGS produce typical upper class wives and mothers. you are ah pek that's why you like these type. sensible, understanding, presentable, elegant... wah lan eh, typical MCP kind of preference :D i prefer the very hiong RGS type. that type usually find singaporean men like you a BIG turn off.

teddybear
24-08-10, 22:58
The type where their eyes grow on their head? You like being 'driven' by them? :D

BTW, don't call me ah pek, I could be younger than u:p

SCGS produce typical upper class wives and mothers. you are ah pek that's why you like these type. sensible, understanding, presentable, elegant... wah lan eh, typical MCP kind of preference :D i prefer the very hiong RGS type. that type usually find singaporean men like you a BIG turn off.

Wild Falcon
25-08-10, 11:57
I think tbe best strategy is "don't buy developer's units". If u have a few investments, may want to let some go and take some money off the table.

Talking about empty units. Super-prime Paterson Suites - going to TOP soon with only 1/4 of the units sold. Even the 20+ or so handful of units that were sold to are trying desperately to offload at below developer's price. This condo is going to be 3/4 empty when TOP. Not sure what is the developer's plan - they should start some major launch activities soon.


that's true.

so who will outperform the now ? there seems to have more empty/upcoming CCRs than OCRs.

Lord Anus
25-08-10, 14:27
Paterson Suites by Bukit Sembawang?

Not surprising. They have several prime sites but not actively promoting nor selling them.

Not sure about their strategy, but they seem like playing a wait and see game. Not sure if they can pull it off, cos if the market becomes softer next year, they may have to wait long long.

bargain hunter
25-08-10, 17:07
Not surprising for Paterson Suites. 8 Napier even better. TOP liao only sold 3 out of 46:


"The Edge reported that MGPA, a private equity
real estate investment advisory firm linked to the

Macquarie group, has sold all 19 units at 8 Napier

that it had bought in 2007 at $3550 psf. Edge said
however “word on the street” has it that the units
were “returned” to the developers, which include
Tony Tan (ex-Parkway Holdings), and the 20%
deposit forfeited. (No caveats have been lodged
for a while now.)


The 999-year leasehold and 46-unit development
next to the Gleneagles Hospital has been completed,
with only 3 units sold other than the “returned” 19
units."

isaaclim
25-08-10, 17:49
It all depends on the base year you're looking at

CCR index = 195 (Q4'98 = 100)
Mass index = 171

It means prime has increased 95% (CAGR 7.9%) relative to 1998 while mass/mid has only increase 71% relative to 1998 (CAGR 5.9%). So CCR has actually appreciated more if we use 1998 as the base year.

And please note this is an index relative to the original base price. I have never said prime and mid will become the SAME PRICE. I'm not sure how people read that way. I'm just saying considering CCR has increased at a faster rate - CAGR of 7.9% from 1998, it is about time the rate of increase come down - while the rest start to catch up. This theory has been proven to be correct in the past 2 years. And I always like to use the developed country vs the developing country analogy. I'm not saying a developing country will become developed overnight. I'm just saying the opportunity to grow and rate of growth should be higher. That's why countries in Europe stuggle to grow at 3% per annum while China or Vietnam or Philippines has no problem growing at more than 7%. So if you have money to invest, where do you place your bets?

No right or wrong answer. Just different investment strategies.

Well... I do agree it is investment choice. But make sure you are using the correct base when deciding on choices.

So are you recommending to invest in MASS market now? :doh:

Wild Falcon
25-08-10, 21:46
Property market moves in cycle. One thing is for sure - NOW is NOT the bottom of the cycle, but whether it is the top - nobody knows.

But in the long term, my view is suburbs has far greater potential - no doubts on that. I don't like to use terms like "mass market" because it is misleading.



Well... I do agree it is investment choice. But make sure you are using the correct base when deciding on choices.

So are you recommending to invest in MASS market now? :doh:

Wild Falcon
25-08-10, 21:52
You're right - Bukit Sembawang. Waiting and waiting for the best window of opportunity to sell at the highest possible price to clueless foreign investors. Turns out foreign investors are not that clueless anymore. The new generation (Gen X and Y) of Indonesian/foreign investors are actually very savvy - unlike their parents/older generations - they keep their options open and are open to new ideas, e.g. investing in new underdeveloped areas, conducting diligence on URA plans and transport network etc. They no longer just buy a place "because expensive must be good."

"Expensive must be good" is so old school :).

"Location location location" interpreted as "prime location" is also old school.


Paterson Suites by Bukit Sembawang?

Not surprising. They have several prime sites but not actively promoting nor selling them.

Not sure about their strategy, but they seem like playing a wait and see game. Not sure if they can pull it off, cos if the market becomes softer next year, they may have to wait long long.

devilplate
25-08-10, 22:26
just be careful....cheap can get cheaper as well:p

teddybear
25-08-10, 22:46
My Lesson learnt: Cheap not always best bargain... Many things are cheap for a reason, only rarely did anybody bought something cheap at a bargain (because when it is really cheap fire sale, it is usually bought by insiders' to the agents). Now when almost any Tom Dick & Harry buying the mass market, seems to suggest something to me. My philosophy is always that 20% of the people make 80% of the total money. So many buying mass market can't be all of them going to make big money? :confused:


just be careful....cheap can get cheaper as well:p

Wild Falcon
25-08-10, 23:08
Of course. But expensive can also get cheaper. We're talking about LONG TERM POTENTIAL - whether existing developed area or new underdeveloped areas have GREATER long term potential. Why did Macquarie return those units at 8 Napier? Because they don't see any potential.

But if you're a short term player playing on sentiments and foreign hot monies, then I guess high-end might be the place to go.


just be careful....cheap can get cheaper as well:p