View Full Version : New Rules to Cool Property Market
The Government announced today the following measures to maintain a stable and sustainable property market:
a) Increase the holding period for imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty from the current one year to three years (imposed on pro-rata).
b) For property buyers who already have one or more outstanding housing loans at the time of the new housing purchase:
i. Increase the minimum cash payment from 5% to 10% of the valuation limit2; and
ii. Decrease the Loan-to-Value (LTV) limit for housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS to these buyers from the current 80% to 70%.
The measures will take immediate effect on 30 August 2010.
Read fulll MAS release here: http://www.mas.gov.sg/news_room/press_releases/2010/Measures_to_Maintain_a_Stable_and_Sustainable_Property_Market.html
wow.... means those tat bt earlier... subject to the 3 yrs cap ?
:doh:
3 years SSD is for purchase made today and thereafter.
Extending the Holding Period for Imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) on Residential Properties Sold from 1 Year to 3 Years4 The Government imposed in February 2010 a seller’s stamp duty (SSD) for sellers who buy residential properties3 on or after 20 February 2010 and sell them within a year of purchase.
5 For residential properties bought4 on or after 30 August 2010, SSD will be imposed if these properties are sold within three years of purchase. Specifically, the SSD levied on residential properties will be revised to as follows:
a) Sold within the first year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for 1 year or less from its purchase date – The full SSD rate (1% for the first $180,000 of the consideration, 2% for the next $180,000, and 3% for the balance) will be imposed.
b) Sold within the second year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 1 year and up to 2 years – 2/3 of the full SSD rate.
c) Sold within the third year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 2 years and up to 3 years – 1/3 of the full SSD rate.
No SSD will be payable by the vendor if the property is sold more than 3 years after it was bought. Please see Annex (http://forums.condosingapore.com/resource/news_room/press_releases/2010/Annex-20100830.pdf) for examples of how the SSD will be computed.
6 The extended SSD will not affect HDB lessees as the required Minimum Occupation Period for HDB flats is at least 3 years.
7 IRAS will be releasing an updated e-tax guide on the circumstances under which SSD will apply and the procedures for paying SSD. The e-tax guide will be available at www.iras.gov.sg (http://www.iras.gov.sg/). Taxpayers with enquiries may call IRAS at 6351 3697 or 6351 3698.
afterall, the govn will always want a share of where the $$ is... stamp duty! by decreasing bank loan, they lose out on tax, so get it from somewhere else.. how smart...
Extending the Holding Period for Imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) on Residential Properties Sold from 1 Year to 3 Years4 The Government imposed in February 2010 a seller’s stamp duty (SSD) for sellers who buy residential properties3 on or after 20 February 2010 and sell them within a year of purchase.
5 For residential properties bought4 on or after 30 August 2010, SSD will be imposed if these properties are sold within three years of purchase. Specifically, the SSD levied on residential properties will be revised to as follows:
a) Sold within the first year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for 1 year or less from its purchase date – The full SSD rate (1% for the first $180,000 of the consideration, 2% for the next $180,000, and 3% for the balance) will be imposed.
b) Sold within the second year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 1 year and up to 2 years – 2/3 of the full SSD rate.
c) Sold within the third year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 2 years and up to 3 years – 1/3 of the full SSD rate.
No SSD will be payable by the vendor if the property is sold more than 3 years after it was bought. Please see Annex (http://forums.condosingapore.com/resource/news_room/press_releases/2010/Annex-20100830.pdf) for examples of how the SSD will be computed.
6 The extended SSD will not affect HDB lessees as the required Minimum Occupation Period for HDB flats is at least 3 years.
7 IRAS will be releasing an updated e-tax guide on the circumstances under which SSD will apply and the procedures for paying SSD. The e-tax guide will be available at www.iras.gov.sg (http://www.iras.gov.sg/). Taxpayers with enquiries may call IRAS at 6351 3697 or 6351 3698.
If the 70% loan ratio is applicable to HDB upgraders who already has an outstanding loan with HDB, it will be killer measures .... developers must be swearing now
1 Financial institutions are required to conduct checks with HDB and with one or more credit bureaus on whether the buyer has an outstanding housing loan at the time of applying for a housing loan for the new property purchase. For joint buyers, if either buyer has an outstanding housing loan, the joint buyers will be considered as having an outstanding housing loan.
wow.... means those tat bt earlier... subject to the 3 yrs cap ?
:doh:
This should only apply to those whose OTP is dated 30 Au 2010 onwards... those who bought earlier just kanna the 1 yr SSD.
Does the new measures of minimum cash payment and LTV apply to those with intention to sell their current home (own stayed) to buy a new property (also for own stay)?
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 08:57
my understanding from the press release is that it does.
Does the new measures of minimum cash payment and LTV apply to those with intention to sell their current home (own stayed) to buy a new property (also for own stay)?
Unless one has a fully paid up home.
my understanding from the press release is that it does.
Commercial property may become more popular now.
I hope they will not overdo the cooling with these measures. Outlook for 2011 does not seems too good already.... :beats-me-man:
HUAT AH!!!!!
says the govt ~ :o
So this means if I were to buy a private property and sell my hdb flat after that, i would be considered by banks as taking 2nd loan at point of loan application and subject to max 70% LTV for my pte property loan?
Wah like this everyone who wants to upgrade from hdb to pte must sell before they buy pte? So in the meantime after selling their hdb, and before buying pte, must stay hotel la?
So what's likely to happen to those who have multiple properties waiting to flip? Seems like the demand will cool off interest, think they may end up doing back flip themselves if they dont have mean to hold up to 3 years
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 10:15
can anyone clarify if a bridging loan is possible for the scenario below? that is my interpretation from the press release too but does not seem logical.
So this means if I were to buy a private property and sell my hdb flat after that, i would be considered by banks as taking 2nd loan at point of loan application and subject to max 70% LTV for my pte property loan?
Wah like this everyone who wants to upgrade from hdb to pte must sell before they buy pte? So in the meantime after selling their hdb, and before buying pte, must stay hotel la?
So this means if I were to buy a private property and sell my hdb flat after that, i would be considered by banks as taking 2nd loan at point of loan application and subject to max 70% LTV for my pte property loan?
Wah like this everyone who wants to upgrade from hdb to pte must sell before they buy pte? So in the meantime after selling their hdb, and before buying pte, must stay hotel la?
Thats what they want. Only those cash rich people can afford 2nd or more property. This will most likely extinguish the heat completely. Or the surge in demand of MM units because of their low quantum. :beats-me-man:
So does having a HDB loan considered as already having a first housing loan? If it does, this will affect the mass market properties badly. No wonder developers so hurriedly pushing out their mass market properties. They are expecting that? High-end private property market not really affected by such measures.
If the 70% loan ratio is applicable to HDB upgraders who already has an outstanding loan with HDB, it will be killer measures .... developers must be swearing now
1 Financial institutions are required to conduct checks with HDB and with one or more credit bureaus on whether the buyer has an outstanding housing loan at the time of applying for a housing loan for the new property purchase. For joint buyers, if either buyer has an outstanding housing loan, the joint buyers will be considered as having an outstanding housing loan.
there goes mass market.
2011 will be an interesting year
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 10:25
yes, if they still have hdb or bank loan. if fully paid up then no issue.
So does having a HDB loan considered as already having a first housing loan? If it does, this will affect the mass market properties badly. No wonder developers so hurriedly pushing out their mass market properties. They are expecting that? High-end private property market not really affected by such measures.
So this means if I were to buy a private property and sell my hdb flat after that, i would be considered by banks as taking 2nd loan at point of loan application and subject to max 70% LTV for my pte property loan?
Wah like this everyone who wants to upgrade from hdb to pte must sell before they buy pte? So in the meantime after selling their hdb, and before buying pte, must stay hotel la?
Yes seems like it ~
Thats what they want. Only those cash rich people can afford 2nd or more property. This will most likely extinguish the heat completely. Or the surge in demand of MM units because of their low quantum. :beats-me-man:
I say good riddance to MM units ~
I say good riddance to MM units ~
Why? Don't like, don't buy.
MM units are good as it helps to segmentize the market, so if you are non-MM unit owner, your large unit will become scarce as more MM units come to the market.
New launches will be greatly affected...HDB Upgraders will not rush down anymore...haha...
Why? Don't like, don't buy.
MM units are good as it helps to segmentize the market, so if you are non-MM unit owner, your large unit will become scarce as more MM units come to the market.
i dun own any MM units, but u see i am concerned about the kind of crowd and tenants that MM units will bring to the existing locale and surrounding ~ :cool:
chua may lee
30-08-10, 11:03
I see that the new measures will create a shocking drop in resale transactions.:doh:
Private owners who have just bought resale HDB flats have to sell their private property within 6 months. Wow! There will be fire sales of private property in the next few months.
Private owners who have just bought resale HDB flats have to sell their private property within 6 months. Wow! There will be fire sales of private property in the next few months.
aiyo, the new rules is from today lah
if u bought a resale HDB ytd u wont be affected
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 11:14
strange that everyone is not thinking right. :D sg style has always been WITH EFFECT FROM TODAY. like that then show they are consistent with policy mah.
aiyo, the new rules is from today lah
if u bought a resale HDB ytd u wont be affected
smartinvest
30-08-10, 11:15
You guys Wait Long Long for property price to collapse. The garment will not allow the property to collapse as it will affect the banking sector . The worse case scenario is 0% growth for the next 12 months before the market goes up again as more people earns more money and the effect of IR and new MRT stations affect the market again.
The garment want Long Term growth. The property market will only collapse if there is major crisis like SAR and SEP 11.
proud owner
30-08-10, 11:21
You guys Wait Long Long for property price to collapse. The garment will not allow the property to collapse as it will affect the banking sector . The worse case scenario is 0% growth for the next 12 months before the market goes up again as more people earns more money and the effect of IR and new MRT stations affect the market again.
The garment want Long Term growth. The property market will only collapse if there is major crisis like SAR and SEP 11.
well i wish mkt will collapse..
But i think mkt will just quieten for quite a while ... and see who cannot tahan first
Am sure that people planning to sign on the line will now reconsider. There are many I believe esp. upgraders who are close to the cash threshold, and this will turn the tides.
Sure long term price will go up. But that can be 7-10 years later. Believe it will correct in next few years. Why cos the mass market price is simply too high for the majority of the masses. Make sure you have holding power for the next cycle.
Not very smart are you?
:rolleyes:
You guys Wait Long Long for property price to collapse. The garment will not allow the property to collapse as it will affect the banking sector . The worse case scenario is 0% growth for the next 12 months before the market goes up again as more people earns more money and the effect of IR and new MRT stations affect the market again.
The garment want Long Term growth. The property market will only collapse if there is major crisis like SAR and SEP 11.
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 11:23
of course won't collapse. but zero growth as u mentioned to possibly a slight -ve in the short term is possible. but long term picture is as u said, govt's objective is for sustainable long term growth. just that short term need to consolidate and squeeze out some speculators first.
You guys Wait Long Long for property price to collapse. The garment will not allow the property to collapse as it will affect the banking sector . The worse case scenario is 0% growth for the next 12 months before the market goes up again as more people earns more money and the effect of IR and new MRT stations affect the market again.
The garment want Long Term growth. The property market will only collapse if there is major crisis like SAR and SEP 11.
bargain hunter
30-08-10, 11:25
it will be as u said. but i m sure there will be some sellers who cannot tahan first just not sure how many.
well i wish mkt will collapse..
But i think mkt will just quieten for quite a while ... and see who cannot tahan first
well i wish mkt will collapse..
But i think mkt will just quieten for quite a while ... and see who cannot tahan first
Agree... no collapse, just extremely quiet for new launches, very quiet for resale... for how long, anybody's guess...
Those with cash may find this to be an opportune time
i think is another kneel jerk reaction only. these measure is to filter off speculators. genuine buyers with means still want to buy. definitely they can hold for 3 years. if pte price is being push high by those (speculator)who max out the loan eligibility, then this kind of price is very risky.
proud owner
30-08-10, 11:40
i think is another kneel jerk reaction only. these measure is to filter off speculators. genuine buyers with means still want to buy. definitely they can hold for 3 years. if pte price is being push high by those (speculator)who max out the loan eligibility, then this kind of price is very risky.
china and hk aleady have alot more strict measures .. ours chicken feet lah
its only right that spore govt do something about it ..otherwise if something external really occur and asia collapses spore will collapse the most ... then who;s fault ? people sure blame govt
so they have to do something 'in-line' with china and hk ...
looking at the housing mkt in china and hk now ..
so i dont think this time round this will be a knee jerk reaction
Most likely it will be a soft landing for condo prices and HDB COVs. If the market is down too much, it will be politically dangerous. Before that happens, the government can just reverse the property ruling.
Property price still will not crash, because the immigration policy is still to welcome new PR and citizen, and import more foreign workers. So overall, this new ruling is to make way for more people to come into Singapore without driving up the prices drastically. This helps new 1st time HDB buyers as well as to prevent housing cost from going higher for MNCs.
Its the end for speculators who already have a property loan and still try to enter the market to flip...
:spliff:
It is hard to predict how the market will react. But, one thing is for sure, the measures are getting more and more drastic. So when the SSD holding period was one year, it didn't stop demand. Now, it is increased to 3 years. So, those who bought earlier, heng ah! Who knows if more drastic measures won't come like increasing SSD holding period to 5 years, increasing cash component to 10% even for 1st pte ppty etc. That's the problem with the policies. It leaves people in the lurch, not knowing whether to buy or sell now. Don't buy now, policies may get tougher and tougher.
The policies are self-fulfilling prophecies. If people think that more drastic measures are coming, they will buy now. This drives up the demand and prices which in turn forces the government to implement more drastic measures.
How sad.
Agreed the measure for pte property are chicken feet, compare to China n HK, unless the economy turn bad in 2011/12.:scared-3:
With higher salary, better bonus, many people will have "money" to buy n upgrade. 10% cash no problem, 70% loan no problem, stamp duty not more than 3% very cheap.:spliff:
But building too many HDB new flats could be a problem. As what the PM doubts, will there be 22,000 newly married couple to occupy them when they are completed in 2.5 years?:beats-me-man:
I think bto for hdb is still quite safe as compared to last time when they build first then sell. At least the scene of too much excess empty hdb flats during 03 to 05 should not appear. :beats-me-man:
We have to understand the real meaning.
The new measure will do more good than harm to the market as government seeing bubble was building up. The moves will drastically disperse the over heat.
Casinos and Youth Olympic were the big push for our eco recovery and it's expected to last for at least 3 years which is why we have the 3 yrs duty to avoid over heat.
I believe that price will sustain and grow smoothly when there are almost 1/2 of the buyer are non local. While most of the investors are aged 45+, 10% cash and 70% loan shouldn't be a big problem at all.
i dun own any MM units, but u see i am concerned about the kind of crowd and tenants that MM units will bring to the existing locale and surrounding ~ :cool:
Yes.
I saw a MM showflat at Gilstead 2. The whole MM unit 900 sq ft feels no bigger than my lounge. Price @2333psf for 30th floor. Nearly 80% sold
Two issues
a) who is buying and what are these buyers hoping, capital gains or rental
b) can rental value meet payment
c) who will be the tenants
As for private property, it is still too early to conclude.
But as for HDB, it is killer!
Good luck to those who brought HDB over 700k!
So if I give a 1% deposit to buy a private apartment before 30 Aug 2010, will I be subjected to the new 3 years rule?
stalingrad
30-08-10, 13:36
So if I give a 1% deposit to buy a private apartment before 30 Aug 2010, will I be subjected to the new 3 years rule?
You will not if you forfeit your deposit.
I think bto for hdb is still quite safe as compared to last time when they build first then sell. At least the scene of too much excess empty hdb flats during 03 to 05 should not appear. :beats-me-man:
I think impact to HDB is minimum, as there are regulations to restrict each family to 1 HDB unit and the minimum period of occupancy.
Does the govt realise that by implementing these rules, it is not going to check the increase in property prices due to the influx of FT and their hot cash? Moreover, it penalises Singaporean property owners more than foreigners? Foreigners who want to invest in single properties here (and ironically, they are 'second' property buyers), do not have to face the same restrictions of paying 10% etc.
On another note, this is really going to hit the HDB market, which is great for first timers. Now we can't concurrently own a HDB and private property during the Minimum Occupation Period of 5 years...so unless u want to give up staying legally in private property for 5 years to move to HDB, then there goes the idea to buying a HDB, let it remain unoccupied for three years (used to be one year) and rent it out. U can't even do that now.
So if I give a 1% deposit to buy a private apartment before 30 Aug 2010, will I be subjected to the new 3 years rule?
It base on the OTP date.
Only if their resale transaction is received by HDB from 30 August 2010. So please go now today!!!!
Private owners who have just bought resale HDB flats have to sell their private property within 6 months. Wow! There will be fire sales of private property in the next few months.
I think impact to HDB is minimum, as there are regulations to restrict each family to 1 HDB unit and the minimum period of occupancy.
The impact on HDB is immediate.
The impact on private would still depend on economy
i do not understand why the govt is penalising Singaporeans but not the foreigners...they are not subject to these limitations (except the extended SSV) as they are purchasing their 'first' property. So now what...limit Singaporean demand but let foreigners have a freer rein to push prices even higher? Are u having a fever Mr Mah when u decided on this...it's election year u know....
The impact on HDB is immediate.
The impact on private would still depend on economy
how is it having the immediate impact on HDB ? can you elaborate ? thanks.
i do not understand why the govt is penalising Singaporeans but not the foreigners...they are not subject to these limitations (except the extended SSV) as they are purchasing their 'first' property. So now what...limit Singaporean demand but let foreigners have a freer rein to push prices even higher? Are u having a fever Mr Mah when u decided on this...it's election year u know....
pap govt very "caring" one u dunno meh?
"protect" your cpf from u
now "protect" you from over leveraging ~ lol
pap govt very "caring" one u dunno meh?
"protect" your cpf from u
now "protect" you from over leveraging ~ lol
The working or middle income class would be penalized. I have many friends who are staying in HDB and they have been saving up for the past few years and hope to save for the 20% so as to upgrade and stay in the private property, but the prices are running too fast. Now with 30% deposit, it seems their hopes are dashed..Is it confirmed 70% rule also apply to HDB upgraders who genuinely will sell their flat once their new house TOP?
The working or middle income class would be penalized. I have many friends who are staying in HDB and they have been saving up for the past few years and hope to save for the 20% so as to upgrade and stay in the private property, but the prices are running too fast. Now with 30% deposit, it seems their hopes are dashed..Is it confirmed 70% rule also apply to HDB upgraders who genuinely will sell their flat once their new house TOP?
Their hopes are not dashed, they just need to save longer. It is those who owned a pte property hoping to get another hdb hopes dashed.. The new ruling is not very fair. It doesn't make sense for those who bought hdb first get to buy private property later and hold on to both properties while those who bought private first are not allowed to do so.
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 14:14
So this means if I were to buy a private property and sell my hdb flat after that, i would be considered by banks as taking 2nd loan at point of loan application and subject to max 70% LTV for my pte property loan?
Wah like this everyone who wants to upgrade from hdb to pte must sell before they buy pte? So in the meantime after selling their hdb, and before buying pte, must stay hotel la?
In short... yes :D
Sell off your hdb flat first, then buy pte property, then still can get LTV quantum of 80% and no need 10% cash downpayment - as you would already have redeemed your earlier loan hdb loan (if any) :D
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 14:16
The working or middle income class would be penalized. I have many friends who are staying in HDB and they have been saving up for the past few years and hope to save for the 20% so as to upgrade and stay in the private property, but the prices are running too fast. Now with 30% deposit, it seems their hopes are dashed..Is it confirmed 70% rule also apply to HDB upgraders who genuinely will sell their flat once their new house TOP?
As long as you have an existing mortgage loan, it will be 70% for the property that you buy (whether pte or resale). If you have pte pty and you want to buy resale hdb, you must sell off your pte pty within the next six months :D
In short... yes :D
Sell off your hdb flat first, then buy pte property, then still can get LTV quantum of 80% and no need 10% cash downpayment - as you would already have redeemed your earlier loan hdb loan (if any) :D
But does it make sense for anyone to sell their hdb after the new ruling? Think nobody will want to sell..
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 14:17
Only if their resale transaction is received by HDB from 30 August 2010. So please go now today!!!!
Ahem... hello... today is already 30 Aug :doh:
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 14:18
But does it make sense for anyone to sell their hdb after the new ruling? Think nobody will want to sell..
If you fulfill your 5 yr MOP for HDB flat and no outstanding mortgage loan after that.... by all means borrow up to 80% for your pte pty :D
Their hopes are not dashed, they just need to save longer. It is those who owned a pte property hoping to get another hdb hopes dashed.. The new ruling is not very fair. It doesn't make sense for those who bought hdb first get to buy private property later and hold on to both properties while those who bought private first are not allowed to do so.
anyway it is double whammy for the average working class, need to save longer and their current HDB resale price will be dampened.
So does having a HDB loan considered as already having a first housing loan? If it does, this will affect the mass market properties badly. No wonder developers so hurriedly pushing out their mass market properties. They are expecting that? High-end private property market not really affected by such measures.
Actually, i thought perhaps "they already knew"
as always, "top" people do talk to each other,
can they chose not to ? i doubt so especially when
the decided policy can affect the economy. Perhaps
the "top" people have tried everything to delay
the implementation till now .
perhaps , perhaps , perhaps
anyway it is double whammy for the average working class, need to save longer and their current HDB resale price will be dampened.
is not a dbl whammy lah
if the hdb is all that u own, then it is for own stay and whether the resale price moves up or down makes no diff for u
cos when resale price is up, u sell high u also buy high
when resale mkt is down, u sell low u also buy low
why so many ppl cannot get out of this mind trap...
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 14:37
Actually 70% loan quantum is no big deal as many banks are already doing that for your second loan. 10% cash downpayment is also nothing. It's the rest of the measures that will kill off the evil speculators :D
i got my investment condo(tenanted) last yr, then hdb resale in feb this year.
HDB resale is really for my own stay, was kenna trap by MOP 3yrs, infact just got keys, now still renovating...
Am i consider lucky?
bec if i wait until now, i cannot hold both hdb and condo together liao.
Am i consider unlucky?
bec HDB resale price may be dampen by this new rule liao?
Can anyone tell me:
my MOP for my HDB is still 3yr?
can i sell my hdb after 3yr?
can i rent out my hdb after 3yr?
:o
Their hopes are not dashed, they just need to save longer. It is those who owned a pte property hoping to get another hdb hopes dashed.. The new ruling is not very fair. It doesn't make sense for those who bought hdb first get to buy private property later and hold on to both properties while those who bought private first are not allowed to do so.
They can still buy provided they observe the minimum occupation period(MOP) of 5 years. Those who bought HDB first would have to observe this same MOP before they can buy pte ppty.
Yes, it might hit HDB resale market since some of those who can afford high COVs are pte ppty owners. These people can no longer keep and rent out their pte ppty. They may forget about HDB and continue to stay in their pte ppty.
how is it having the immediate impact on HDB ? can you elaborate ? thanks.
Let's me try...
The new measures is a poison for HDB but a cure for Private.
Govt closed the path for private property owner to purchase HDB as a mean for cheaper housing. This group of HDB buyers are belonging to rich categories in HDB buyer market.
As for private, rules on SSD, LTV on additional property and 10% cash payment KILL "worms" in private property market. So, in long term it is good for private.
Or do you disagree?
What if I bot a HDB n can't sell my Pte Condo within 6 mths at the price I want, despite trying very hard. :(
Are they going to confiscate my HDB or Condo? Or auction off my condo at any price?:confused:
What is the penalty? A fine, jail, cane or what?:beats-me-man:
Anyone know?
moneymatters
30-08-10, 14:55
Let's me try...
The new measures is a poison for HDB but a cure for Private.
Govt closed the path for private property owner to purchase HDB as a mean for cheaper housing. This group of HDB buyers are belonging to rich categories in HDB buyer market.
As for private, rules on SSD, LTV on additional property and 10% cash payment KILL "worms" in private property market. So, in long term it is good for private.
Or do you disagree?
Think you got the essence & thrust of new ruling.
i got my investment condo(tenanted) last yr, then hdb resale in feb this year.
HDB resale is really for my own stay, was kenna trap by MOP 3yrs, infact just got keys, now still renovating...
Am i consider lucky?
bec if i wait until now, i cannot hold both hdb and condo together liao.
Am i consider unlucky?
bec HDB resale price may be dampen by this new rule liao?
Can anyone tell me:
my MOP for my HDB is still 3yr?
can i sell my hdb after 3yr?
can i rent out my hdb after 3yr?
:o
i got the similar senario as you, except bought resale HDB 2 years ago. just call hdb and the officer says transacted b4 30 Aug 2010 not under the revised scheme. can still sublet / sell after 3 years.
HDB contact no is : 1800 8663 066, u got to tried few attempt, guess many ppl call them after announcement.
They can still buy provided they observe the minimum occupation period(MOP) of 5 years. Those who bought HDB first would have to observe this same MOP before they can buy pte ppty.
Yes, it might hit HDB resale market since some of those who can afford high COVs are pte ppty owners. These people can no longer keep and rent out their pte ppty. They may forget about HDB and continue to stay in their pte ppty.
Only those living in the hdb can buy pte after fufilling 5 yr MOP. There is no way for pte pty buyer to buy hdb unless they sell their pte pty w/i 6 mths. Bad news for ppl who own pte pty but wish to buy hdb be it for own stay or investment. Had made plans to buy resale hdb once market cool down, but hopes dashed...
i got my investment condo(tenanted) last yr, then hdb resale in feb this year.
HDB resale is really for my own stay, was kenna trap by MOP 3yrs, infact just got keys, now still renovating...
Am i consider lucky?
bec if i wait until now, i cannot hold both hdb and condo together liao.
Am i consider unlucky?
bec HDB resale price may be dampen by this new rule liao?
Can anyone tell me:
my MOP for my HDB is still 3yr?
can i sell my hdb after 3yr?
can i rent out my hdb after 3yr?
:o
You are lucky if you plan to keep hdb, unlucky if you plan to sell hdb.
Only those living in the hdb can buy pte after fufilling 5 yr MOP. There is no way for pte pty buyer to buy hdb unless they sell their pte pty w/i 6 mths. Bad news for ppl who own pte pty but wish to buy hdb be it for own stay or investment. Had made plans to buy resale hdb once market cool down, but hopes dashed...
dats a no-no ;)
Good lah...own private property already still want to buy HDB to invest and edge out those who need subsidised housing...problem only...
got private property, buy more private property!:tsk-tsk:
i got the similar senario as you, except bought resale HDB 2 years ago. just call hdb and the officer says transacted b4 30 Aug 2010 not under the revised scheme. can still sublet / sell after 3 years.
HDB contact no is : 1900 8663 066, u got to tried few attempt, guess many ppl call them after announcement.
cheers! this is what i wanted to hear, 3 yrs later can rent out HDB is ok for me liao :D by then take my condo back to stay :p
We have to understand the real meaning.
The new measure will do more good than harm to the market as government seeing bubble was building up. The moves will drastically disperse the over heat.
Casinos and Youth Olympic were the big push for our eco recovery and it's expected to last for at least 3 years which is why we have the 3 yrs duty to avoid over heat.
I believe that price will sustain and grow smoothly when there are almost 1/2 of the buyer are non local. While most of the investors are aged 45+, 10% cash and 70% loan shouldn't be a big problem at all.
I do agreed with u!
Good lah...own private property already still want to buy HDB to invest and edge out those who need subsidised housing...problem only...
got private property, buy more private property!:tsk-tsk:
There are more HDB owners owning pte pty than the other way around.
If the Govt really wants to curb HDB prices they should increase the MOP to 10 years for subsidised and non-subsidised HDB flats and no concurrent owning of private property within MOP :tsk-tsk:
Slowly my friend..slowly...:D
Next target gahmen going after??? Real estate agents...
There are more HDB owners owning pte pty than the other way around.
If the Govt really wants to curb HDB prices they should increase the MOP to 10 years for subsidised and non-subsidised HDB flats and no concurrent owning of private property within MOP :tsk-tsk:
changes to real estate agent industry coming in Nov ~~ :spliff:
Have to keep majority of people happy. Minority is always disadvantaged.
I'll drink to that! :cheers1:
Such HDB owners should not be given better rebates (like in the garment package) as they have already exploited the system.
There are more HDB owners owning pte pty than the other way around.
If the Govt really wants to curb HDB prices they should increase the MOP to 10 years for subsidised and non-subsidised HDB flats and no concurrent owning of private property within MOP :tsk-tsk:
Slowly my friend..slowly...:D
Next target gahmen going after??? Real estate agents...
i think they cornered themselve to win only Pulau Ubin in the coming GE.
i think they cornered themselve to win only Pulau Ubin in the coming GE.
this is pap leh, there is no way the pap will lose the election. :o
so now as long as get HDB flat.. no matter what loan.. also have to stay 5 years for those submitted today onwards ?
Non-Subsidised Flats : Flats bought from the open market without a CPF housing grant
What if I bot a HDB n can't sell my Pte Condo within 6 mths at the price I want, despite trying very hard. :(
Are they going to confiscate my HDB or Condo? Or auction off my condo at any price?:confused:
What is the penalty? A fine, jail, cane or what?:beats-me-man:
Anyone know?
maybe forced sale like mortgagee auction:scared-1:
;) About 30,000 real estate agents max in Singapore...not all of them Singaporeans...not all of them can vote due to zoning by Elections department...its like a drop of water in a bucket!
Seriously, all this threats by agents are useless...if the majority believes gahmen should regulate, then gahmen will win...
i think they cornered themselve to win only Pulau Ubin in the coming GE.
Eldenfirefly
30-08-10, 16:21
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
Just like giving them the pie but with all the conditions. They will think twice before biting it. More difficult for hdb owners to upgrade now. COV will come down for sure.
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
stalingrad
30-08-10, 16:35
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
It looks like this couple should've bought a condo when they got married. they are likely to be professionals. if they are not, how could they get the downpayment ready for a condo in 3 years only?
or maybe they hit the jackpot at a casino. but how many cases will be like that?
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
only additional 2 more years. at least they still get to upgrade 5 years later, so not too bad afterall. HDB resale though high cov still alot cheaper than pte pty, so it is ok la..
My guess is that most people in the sandwich grp would go for mass market pty if they can afford it after the new ruling since hdb resale is less attractive an option.
This couple may have a combined income fall short of the ceiling of $8000. In the past, they may consider buying a HDB as they can rent out after 3 years and use the rental income to support the home loan but now have to wait for 5 years before they can collect rental income. Younger generation is very impatient. They like things to be fast. Quick bucks and retire early. Work hard for a short while and enjoy life early. Who knows?There may be quite a lot of people who will even rent out before 3 years are up. HDB officers should be quite busy these days.
This transaction could mark the peak of mass market condo in this cycle. Perhaps Mr Mah made the decision to kill based on this project pricing:
59 Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 #19-10
99 Yrs From 11/12/2007
$1325psf
872sqft
$1155k
12 Jul 10
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 16:47
This transaction could mark the peak of mass market condo in this cycle. Perhaps Mr Mah made the decision to kill based on this project pricing:
59 Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 #19-10
99 Yrs From 11/12/2007
$1325psf
872sqft
$1155k
12 Jul 10
Sheer madness :doh: :scared-4: :banghead: :D
Willing buyer, willing seller...but don't think this owner can flip easily now...at least not to a local...:p
Sheer madness :doh: :scared-4: :banghead: :D
The Scala is not too shy too:
132 Serangoon Avenue 3 #09-11
99 Yrs From 06/01/2010
$1173psf
850sqft
$997k
12 Aug 10
And if you have doubt in FEO, think again, 1688 ... huat ah :D
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-07
Freehold
$1688psf
1356sqft
$2289k
06 Jul 10
Rather than look out for expensive 99 properties in AMK, it is better buying one at places like Seletaris in Sembawang which is better bet, still have room for price to go up, where can you find a freehold for prices below $700 psf (10mins walk to Sembawang Shopping Ctr and Opp Chong Pang town Centre + 5 mins drive to Northpoint Shopping !
This couple may have a combined income fall short of the ceiling of $8000. In the past, they may consider buying a HDB as they can rent out after 3 years and use the rental income to support the home loan but now have to wait for 5 years before they can collect rental income. Younger generation is very impatient. They like things to be fast. Quick bucks and retire early. Work hard for a short while and enjoy life early. Who knows?There may be quite a lot of people who will even rent out before 3 years are up. HDB officers should be quite busy these days.
if couple less than 8k combine income, they are entitle to housing grant even when buying resale hdb.
and once they get the grant, the MOP become 5yr (this is not a new rule)
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 16:58
if couple less than 8k combine income, they are entitle to housing grant even when buying resale hdb.
and once they get the grant, the MOP become 5yr (this is not a new rule)
You're right. Resale flat still considered subsidised flat due to the housing grant :D
Rather than look out for expensive 99 properties in AMK, it is better buying one at places like Seletaris in Sembawang which is better bet, still have room for price to go up, where can you find a freehold for prices below $700 psf (10mins walk to Sembawang Shopping Ctr and Opp Chong Pang town Centre + 5 mins drive to Northpoint Shopping !
After reading your post, I am prepared to see tanumy coming in :scared-2:
This transaction could mark the peak of mass market condo in this cycle. Perhaps Mr Mah made the decision to kill based on this project pricing:
59 Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 #19-10
99 Yrs From 11/12/2007
$1325psf
872sqft
$1155k
12 Jul 10
I did not see such transaction in HDB website. Where is your info from?
I did not see such transaction in HDB website. Where is your info from?
Feo chopshop Centro, not hdb
Chop Carrot head??!!:p
Feo chopshop Centro, not hdb
Eldenfirefly
30-08-10, 17:09
Well, either way, resale market just took a huge hit. And if you are holding on to a HDB flat, whether resale or even new, you will be affected. Because how do you sell even a 1st time HDB flat after 5 years? Yup, you sell it in the resale HDB market, which is now permanently reduced in demand as long as these new rulings are in effect.
I think the people who sold their HDB in recent months at a high are the smart ones. Unless you are holdings yours to rent out of course.
See it this way - If you can afford private property already, don't buy HDB, else got locked in!
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
Luck of the draw...some people got out at the right time...some bought in at the wrong time...
Still...this isn't all bad...those who have HDB flat can still stay in them...
Well, either way, resale market just took a huge hit. And if you are holding on to a HDB flat, whether resale or even new, you will be affected. Because how do you sell even a 1st time HDB flat after 5 years? Yup, you sell it in the resale HDB market, which is now permanently reduced in demand as long as these new rulings are in effect.
I think the people who sold their HDB in recent months at a high are the smart ones. Unless you are holdings yours to rent out of course.
Well, either way, resale market just took a huge hit. And if you are holding on to a HDB flat, whether resale or even new, you will be affected. Because how do you sell even a 1st time HDB flat after 5 years? Yup, you sell it in the resale HDB market, which is now permanently reduced in demand as long as these new rulings are in effect.
I think the people who sold their HDB in recent months at a high are the smart ones. Unless you are holdings yours to rent out of course.
Agree. It is either selling at a high previously, or holding on to it for future. Since no longer possible to sell at a high from now on, then better hold forever to earn rental yield..
Eldenfirefly
30-08-10, 17:32
And now, probably the rental market will get hit too. Because if resale HDB market takes a big hit, people unwilling to sell will now opt to rent it out instead. And if you have a big supply of rental HDB units coming to the market, it will likely depress the entire rental market.
HDB upgraders will want to sell but may not be able to find a ready pool of buyers (private property owners) to give them high COV. Some may have to sell to raise money for their private property which will TOP soon. First time buyers who are young couples must be the most frustrated lot. Do not have such leverage anymore.
The following are those important measures with effect on 30 August 2010:
a) Increase the holding period for imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) from the current one year to three years.
b) For property buyers who already have one or more outstanding housing loans1 at the time of the new housing purchase:
i. Increase the minimum cash payment from 5% to 10% of the valuation limit2; and
ii. Decrease the Loan-to-Value (LTV) limit for housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS to these buyers from the current 80% to 70%.
(c) Increase the Minimum Occupation Period (MOP) for non-subsidised flats to 5 years; and
(d) Disallow concurrent ownership of both HDB flats and private residential properties within the MOP.
This should be self explanatory...
With new measures on HDB ownership, the following might happen:
1. Many including PRs who do not own any property will rush to buy HDB.
Reason: better to start the 5 yrs MOP jail term earlier so that 5 yrs later can own private property.
2. Many who already own HDB will not sell it as they can buy private property any time or already serving MOP jail term.
I think these group of buyers ( especially PRs ) will out number those who are no longer allowed to own HDB. As a result, instead of cooling down the market, the price will be up up up.....
devilplate
30-08-10, 19:07
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
when u r buying a HDB, u do not entitled the strata title....u r just a LESSEE
i can only say totally no incentive to buy resale flat w/o grant now
devilplate
30-08-10, 19:11
I think the people who sold their HDB in recent months at a high are the smart ones. Unless you are holdings yours to rent out of course.
disagree....these lot of ppl will get perm seller's remorse later on...
devilplate
30-08-10, 19:15
With new measures on HDB ownership, the following might happen:
1. Many including PRs who do not own any property will rush to buy HDB.
Reason: better to start the 5 yrs MOP jail term earlier so that 5 yrs later can own private property.
2. Many who already own HDB will not sell it as they can buy private property any time or already serving MOP jail term.
I think these group of buyers ( especially PRs ) will out number those who are no longer allowed to own HDB. As a result, instead of cooling down the market, the price will be up up up.....
govt is trying to deliver a message: pte ppty owners shd keep their playing field within pte ppty and let the less fortunate have the chance of owning a HDB....by removing this pool of buyers out from HDB market so tat they can continue to import more immigrants into SG....WIN-WIN
As long as this is not going to end up like 1997, I should be fine....:scared-3:
devilplate
30-08-10, 19:35
As long as this is not going to end up like 1997, I should be fine....:scared-3:
if these measures really cause a big crash on prices...govt can easily reverse the policies back and stop the supply of GLS land
u shdnt worry these policies unless u intend to FLIP or hoping for a price surge
u shd worry more on the global economy ie China and US and possible WW3:scared-4:
Yup!
Policies can be relaxed or reversed during bad times - easy to control because they're 'internal policies'. More important is the state of external economy which will have major impact on SG because garment cannot control.
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 20:21
Wrong.
With minimum 5 year MOP for resale HDB. HDB now becomes a very unattrative investment asset. Firstly, you cannot sell within 5 years, i.e. poor lquidity. Secondly, you cannot invest in other properties and your investment portfolio will be compromised.
This will drive those who originally intend to buy resale HDB to think twice. Most will go to the private property market because it has none of such silly restrictions.
One thing is for sure. The prices of mass market condos and HDB will divert further, Clearly, the distinction between private property and HDB is highly pronounced now. One must be silly to buy a resale HDB to be stuck there for 5 years and cannot invest in other properties, unless he/she has no other choice.
there goes mass market.
2011 will be an interesting year
;) About 30,000 real estate agents max in Singapore...not all of them Singaporeans...not all of them can vote due to zoning by Elections department...its like a drop of water in a bucket!
Seriously, all this threats by agents are useless...if the majority believes gahmen should regulate, then gahmen will win...
30,000 real estate agents.....Just let it be 70% of them are singkee, that will be 21,000....Maybe another 30% of them are inactive agent, that will be 14,700.
Singkee's population is around 5 millions, maybe only 1 million is from average and below average income family, and so will find singapore's house is beyond their reach...
14 700 vs 1,000,000.....This is clear to garman on how to win election.
Well, either way, resale market just took a huge hit. And if you are holding on to a HDB flat, whether resale or even new, you will be affected. Because how do you sell even a 1st time HDB flat after 5 years? Yup, you sell it in the resale HDB market, which is now permanently reduced in demand as long as these new rulings are in effect.
I think the people who sold their HDB in recent months at a high are the smart ones. Unless you are holdings yours to rent out of course.
Those speculators who did not realise that last month is the best time to leave property market:banghead: ....I think that they are likely in coma now, after hearing the news today. :scared-1:
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 20:33
Agreed. We should do what Hong Kong has done.
BAN SUB SALES. Ban any resale of uncompleted properties. These are the biggest speculators.
Agreed the measure for pte property are chicken feet, compare to China n HK, unless the economy turn bad in 2011/12.:scared-3:
With higher salary, better bonus, many people will have "money" to buy n upgrade. 10% cash no problem, 70% loan no problem, stamp duty not more than 3% very cheap.:spliff:
But building too many HDB new flats could be a problem. As what the PM doubts, will there be 22,000 newly married couple to occupy them when they are completed in 2.5 years?:beats-me-man:
Agreed. We should do what Hong Kong has done.
BAN SUB SALES. Ban any resale of uncompleted properties. These are the biggest speculators.
Where is Mr. Reporter????
It is interesting to see how is he going to twist this news into a Excellent/Positive news for property market...;)
Wrong.
With minimum 5 year MOP for resale HDB. HDB now becomes a very unattrative investment asset. Firstly, you cannot sell within 5 years, i.e. poor lquidity. Secondly, you cannot invest in other properties and your investment portfolio will be compromised.
This will drive those who originally intend to buy resale HDB to think twice. Most will go to the private property market because it has none of such silly restrictions.
One thing is for sure. The prices of mass market condos and HDB will divert further, Clearly, the distinction between private property and HDB is highly pronounced now. One must be silly to buy a resale HDB to be stuck there for 5 years and cannot invest in other properties, unless he/she has no other choice.
At last we have a viewpoint in common... :)
Hmmm... "Silly" maybe a bit too harsh... but it is definitely a BAD choice for those still choose to commit on resale HDB at current market price.
Agreed. We should do what Hong Kong has done.
BAN SUB SALES. Ban any resale of uncompleted properties.
Patience, patience, my young padawan.
It will come, a promise I give. ;)
mass market condos are supported by resale HDB upgraders. If they cannot sell, how are they going to buy ? This segment should be hit the hardest.
proud owner
30-08-10, 20:57
Let's me try...
The new measures is a poison for HDB but a cure for Private.
Govt closed the path for private property owner to purchase HDB as a mean for cheaper housing. This group of HDB buyers are belonging to rich categories in HDB buyer market.
As for private, rules on SSD, LTV on additional property and 10% cash payment KILL "worms" in private property market. So, in long term it is good for private.
Or do you disagree?
you are correct a;most 90 pct ..
why should govt implement this now ?
its becos all along they know, but didnt want to kill the heat in the market esp when we have IRs and YOG .. IF despite having IRS and YOG and our property market fail to rally ..or worst starts to drop .. it reflects very very badly on spore ..
so they tahan until after YOG .. if they could , they would also tahan until IR investors recoup their costs .. so that investors have more confidence in investing in spore ..
fact that they throw in measures now ..shows they cannot tahan already ..
prices really going too high .. there are too many WORMS .. maybe more worms than real investors ..
esp when china and HK already taken more measures .. and with reports citing spore building costs HIGHEST, research showing American expats unhappy with with housing costs ..etc ..
they just have to do something now ..
in short, they know its overheated, they know there is a bubble, they know its ridiculous, they know our growth < price rally (not sustainable) , they know more will complain (80pct of populations) ...
they know there are more WORMS , so they open the can ,...let these worms die first , rather than later whole can becomes all worms ..
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:00
i think they cornered themselve to win only Pulau Ubin in the coming GE.
you think so ??
1 week before election, they give ang pow to everyone , $100..and call it Sharing the Wealth .. 80 pct will vote for them straightaway ..
it has been proven year after year ,,, singaporeans always forget the bad that happened in the last 3.5yrs ( any 3.5yrs before election) and remember only the Goodie 1 week - 1mth before election
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:04
This increasing of MOP is a bit too much if you ask me. Say a new couple want to get married, they look around, and they prefer the location of the older estates, not the new DBSS and etc.
They have the money to buy now, so they go to resale market and buy a resale HDB.
Say 3 years later, they want to upgrade to a condo. This is part of the upgrading process right? But now, HDB says that they must stay in that resale HDB for 5 years first? Cannot sell the HDB, cannot rent out also! So, couple die die must stay in HDB for 5 years even though they are now able to upgrade to a condo??
Previously, they can use the excuse that buy direct from HDB got grant, etc and all that. But if its resale? No grant given, loan is from private bank, not from HDB, prices are decided by the market. So, HDB not involved in anyway, then how come they get to decide what this kind of couple can or cannot do with their resale HDB property?? :scared-4:
This is like a private developer build a condo. Then tell the second time buyer in the resale market they need to stay in it for 5 years before they are allowed to sell or rent out. If this developer make this kind of request, what do you think the reaction will be? lol
aiya no problem lah ...
just buy a condo using their parents' name lor ...
not as if this never happen before ..
i know so many people buy in their parents names ..
http://www.straitstimes.com/PrimeNews/Story/STIStory_572582.html
Aug 30, 2010
More steps to ease housing woes: PM
Govt will announce today measures to cool private property market
By Li Xueying, Political Correspondent
THE Government will be introducing more measures to ensure public housing remains affordable and to cool the red-hot private property market.
Announcing this in his National Day Rally speech last night, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong gave some details of what will be done to make sure HDB flats remain affordable to Singaporeans, including those currently earning more than $8,000 a month.
But he held back on impending measures to rein in runaway private property prices.
Buyers and sellers will not be put on tenterhooks for long though. The announcement by the Ministry of National Development (MND) is due at 8am today.
'I don't want to go into the details tonight, otherwise you will remember nothing else about my speech,' he said, to laughter from the 1,500-strong audience at the University Cultural Centre.
'Tomorrow morning before the market opens, MND will put out their press statement and (MND Minister) Mah Bow Tan will hold a press conference.
'But our purpose is to make sure that in the long term, Singaporeans can own their homes and afford it, and it would be a gradually appreciating asset which will grow as Singapore grows, so that Singaporeans can benefit.'
The announcement was among a range of measures to address Singaporeans' anxiety over the influx of foreigners and immigrants.
The 'very hot topic' took up a major chunk of Mr Lee's three-hour address, delivered in Malay, Mandarin and English.
While acknowledging 'legitimate concerns which we take seriously' - fears over competition, crowding and the changing character of Singapore's society, he also spelled out why it is important for the country to stay open.
It needs to gain talent, garner reinforcements to grow the economy and make up for the population shortfall.
So the challenge is in balancing Singaporeans' concerns with these imperatives. As Mr Lee put it: 'How do we keep the door open while protecting the interest of Singaporeans? How do we welcome citizens while holding to our values?'
There are no ideal or permanent solutions, he acknowledged, and 'we will have to manage, monitor and adjust as we go along'.
He outlined what the Government is trying to do to limit the downsides.
Besides alleviating housing woes, it makes an important distinction between foreign workers and immigrants.
The former are transients who will leave when the job is done, said Mr Lee.
Significantly, he re-adjusted his estimate of the number of extra foreign workers Singapore will need this year. Where earlier he had projected 100,000, last night he revised it down to 80,000.
'We've recalculated, maybe we'll get by with a few less, perhaps 80,000 workers,' he said.
As for immigrants, the number is far smaller, and Singapore is 'very careful' whom it accepts.
Citizens will always come first, he assured his audience.
As a mark of this emphasis, he announced a new $9,000 award for NS men, more details of which will be released tomorrow.
To address complaints of congestion on public transport, Mr Lee reiterated measures already in the works to ease the crunch, such as the purchase of more trains and the building of more rail lines.
All in, these measures will cost $60 billion over the next 10 years.
Turning to education, Mr Lee expanded on the theme of inclusivity that he first brought up in his Rally in 2005: shaping the education system into one that enables students of different talents and abilities to maximise their potential.
Singapore is realising this vision, he said, but 'we can still do better'.
Among the new moves coming up is one to allow Normal (Academic) students to get a 'through-train' to polytechnic, skipping the O levels.
As for Express stream students, those in seven more secondary schools can get to be on the Integrated Programme whereby they go straight on to the A levels.
On the economic front, Mr Lee noted that while Singapore is attaining a spectacular 13 to 15 per cent in growth this year, the figure is 'less spectacular' when seen over the three years from 2008 to this year.
Averaged out, growth becomes 5 per cent a year over these three years.
But this is a 'realistic target'. 'For the next 10 years, if we can make 3 to 5 per cent growth on average every year, I think we're doing well,' he said.
Beyond bread and butter issues, Mr Lee also dwelt on the intangible 'Singapore spirit' that makes Singapore such an economic dynamo and a beacon for comers from many lands.
He defined the spirit as one based on values such as multiracialism, loyalty, shared responsibility and shared dreams.
It was seen in Singapore's founding fathers such as Dr Goh Keng Swee, he said, announcing the naming of two institutions - the Singapore Command and Staff College and a new centre of education - after the late deputy prime minister, who passed away in May.
The spirit can also be found in 33-year-old Alvan Yap, who is hearing-impaired but volunteers to teach deaf children in Timor Leste sign language.
With the Youth Olympic Games just ended earlier in the week, Mr Lee took the opportunity to voice his appreciation for the 30,000 staff and volunteers who made the Games possible.
While Singapore may be small, it is in a 'very strong position', he said, relating how a Canadian lady he met at the Games Village congratulated Singapore for having 'cleared the bar'.
'We've reinforced our talent, we've worked closely together, delivered results, won respect for Singapore.
'So with good leadership, and a close-knit team imbued with the Singapore spirit, we will seize the opportunities around us and take our nation to the next level,' he said.
[email protected]
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 21:10
I think there will be some exceptions. But they probably have to agree to sell their HDB flat within X years after moving into the private property. But frankly, if your friend has to resort to 80% loan without any buffer, then don't buy. I've never bought a property with 80% loan.
From an investment standpoint, there's really no point holding on to an HDB "asset" that will almost certain grow slower than private property market - not forgetting it's 99LH with lease term running down slapped with an 5-years MOP for all future buyers. I think with these new rules, government has made it really clear that HDB is not an investment class. If you want capital appreciation with no restrictions, go to the private property market.
Resale HDB will almost certain fall. Your friend would have to fork out more money to upgrade to private now.
The working or middle income class would be penalized. I have many friends who are staying in HDB and they have been saving up for the past few years and hope to save for the 20% so as to upgrade and stay in the private property, but the prices are running too fast. Now with 30% deposit, it seems their hopes are dashed..Is it confirmed 70% rule also apply to HDB upgraders who genuinely will sell their flat once their new house TOP?
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:13
And now, probably the rental market will get hit too. Because if resale HDB market takes a big hit, people unwilling to sell will now opt to rent it out instead. And if you have a big supply of rental HDB units coming to the market, it will likely depress the entire rental market.
already rental mkt is not rosy .. plus this supply coming in .. rental will dampen further ..
so good luck to those who bought MM to rent to IR's and Aerohub's 20,000 workers ..
cos they now can rent HDB cheap cheap ...
sorry if i offend these people ... but i have warned time and again that majority of IR and Aerohub work force cannot afford to rent MM, or no need to rent nearby MM units ..
but fell on deaf ears
Hard to say, maybe those initially wanted to by pte as a first timer may think twice and buy resale instead because if they dun do so, they lose the chance to own a hdb w a pte pty forever...resale though high price now, it is still significant lower than pte pty.
Wrong.
With minimum 5 year MOP for resale HDB. HDB now becomes a very unattrative investment asset. Firstly, you cannot sell within 5 years, i.e. poor lquidity. Secondly, you cannot invest in other properties and your investment portfolio will be compromised.
This will drive those who originally intend to buy resale HDB to think twice. Most will go to the private property market because it has none of such silly restrictions.
One thing is for sure. The prices of mass market condos and HDB will divert further, Clearly, the distinction between private property and HDB is highly pronounced now. One must be silly to buy a resale HDB to be stuck there for 5 years and cannot invest in other properties, unless he/she has no other choice.
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 21:15
That's provided you "trust" your parents :) Also, if your parents are retired and previously didn't make a lot of money, might attract some "investigation".
Actually I think rule is fair. If you want to upgrade to private within 2 years, then just buy private direct. Why go speculate in HDB flat for short term 2 year profits and drive up prices for those who genuinely want to stay long term in HDB? There are 2 sides of the coin.
aiya no problem lah ...
just buy a condo using their parents' name lor ...
not as if this never happen before ..
i know so many people buy in their parents names ..
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 21:19
Of course, those who truly cannot afford will still buy HDB. But these rules will definitely shift substantial demand direct to the private property market now, esp those who know they can afford. Many PRs are quite well-to-do, they buy resale HDB flat because it is the best "investment" with minimal restrictions. Many PRs own both HDB and private. Now with 5-years MOP restrictions on HDB, these group will almost certainly "change target" liao.
Hard to say, maybe those initially wanted to by pte as a first timer may think twice and buy resale instead because if they dun do so, they lose the chance to own a hdb w a pte pty forever...resale though high price now, it is still significant lower than pte pty.
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:20
Where is Mr. Reporter????
It is interesting to see how is he going to twist this news into a Excellent/Positive news for property market...;)
he has gone on holiday leh ...since jun
wow must have made alot of money with every NEW HIGH that he reported .. can afford to holiday for 2 mths
you are correct a;most 90 pct ..
why should govt implement this now ?
its becos all along they know, but didnt want to kill the heat in the market esp when we have IRs and YOG .. IF despite having IRS and YOG and our property market fail to rally ..or worst starts to drop .. it reflects very very badly on spore ..
so they tahan until after YOG .. if they could , they would also tahan until IR investors recoup their costs .. so that investors have more confidence in investing in spore ..
fact that they throw in measures now ..shows they cannot tahan already ..
prices really going too high .. there are too many WORMS .. maybe more worms than real investors ..
esp when china and HK already taken more measures .. and with reports citing spore building costs HIGHEST, research showing American expats unhappy with with housing costs ..etc ..
they just have to do something now ..
in short, they know its overheated, they know there is a bubble, they know its ridiculous, they know our growth < price rally (not sustainable) , they know more will complain (80pct of populations) ...
they know there are more WORMS , so they open the can ,...let these worms die first , rather than later whole can becomes all worms ..
Sorry oh....
If election is not round the corner, do you think they will do this? All these measures hit direct on residents...
Which foreigner not buy property using cash?!!!
I think there will be some exceptions. But they probably have to agree to sell their HDB flat within X years after moving into the private property. But frankly, if your friend has to resort to 80% loan without any buffer, then don't buy. I've never bought a property with 80% loan.
From an investment standpoint, there's really no point holding on to an HDB "asset" that will almost certain grow slower than private property market - not forgetting it's 99LH with lease term running down slapped with an 5-years MOP for all future buyers. I think with these new rules, government has made it really clear that HDB is not an investment class. If you want capital appreciation with no restrictions, go to the private property market.
Resale HDB will almost certain fall. Your friend would have to fork out more money to upgrade to private now.
Hey! You are so convincing! Suddenly felt relief that I have sold my HDB:D
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:30
That's provided you "trust" your parents :) Also, if your parents are retired and previously didn't make a lot of money, might attract some "investigation".
Actually I think rule is fair. If you want to upgrade to private within 2 years, then just buy private direct. Why go speculate in HDB flat for short term 2 year profits and drive up prices for those who genuinely want to stay long term in HDB? There are 2 sides of the coin.
well not true leh ..
say at the point of purchase, the couple can only afford a HDB, so buy what they can afford lor ..
2 yrs later, say they both got promotion, from a junior banker to a star trader and $$ can really jump .. i have seen it myself
so they want to now pamper themselves with what they can afford ..
but kana HDB ruling, cannot buy private ..
so use cash now and buy private in parent's name
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:34
Sorry oh....
If election is not round the corner, do you think they will do this? All these measures hit direct on residents...
Which foreigner not buy property using cash?!!!
ya election is another reason why they cannot tahan leow
but i am not sure what u mean ...
are you saying foreigners are buying using cash ?
not true leh ..
i have foreigner friends .. who are customers of some bank's private bank .. they buy spore properties with part cash and part loans from the bank here ..
he has gone on holiday leh ...since jun
wow must have made alot of money with every NEW HIGH that he reported .. can afford to holiday for 2 mths
OIC...:)
So he had cash out at the right timing:cheers1: .....a Wise man as he knew that the property market reached its peak liao.......:cool:
proud owner
30-08-10, 21:47
OIC...:)
So he had cash out at the right timing:cheers1: .....a Wise man as he knew that the property market reached its peak liao.......:cool:
i am not sure if he owns any, or have sold any ..
he only reports NEW HIGH ..
Wild Falcon
30-08-10, 21:52
Possible impact on the new rules:-
(A) HDB resale - negative. Negative doesn't mean price will crash. Just means price will moderate or fall slightly compared to had such new not been announaced.
(B) Mainly owner-occupier property - slightly positive due to (i) some HDB demand shifting to private due to less restrictions. (ii) first property can still take 80% loan so no impact on prices.
(C) Small units with mainly investor demand - these condos with vast majority tenanted will be the WORST HIT. This is because the new potential buyer is probably another investor/speculator and now his downpayment is increased to 30%. Take for instance - The Sail. This is a condo with 1111 units mainly small 600+sq ft units. Most are investors as owners usually don't stay in such cramped environment. A small studio cost around $1.5 million. This means downpayment is $450k. Would you put down $450k for a meagre 2% yield? It becomes an unattrative investment for savvy investors who know how to invest their money better. Of course, some others may find such yields attractive but savvy investors will shun the place. Capital appreciation is now unclear (unless some "expert" drum up the China men anyhow invest story again which somehow has not happened).
(D) Mickey mouse units - actually I think the verdict here is not clear. While most buyers are investors. The low quantum means whether a 20% or 30% downpayment is not materially different. It may actually attract more marginal investors into this MM market.... So net impact might not be as negative as (C).
ya election is another reason why they cannot tahan leow
but i am not sure what u mean ...
are you saying foreigners are buying using cash ?
not true leh ..
i have foreigner friends .. who are customers of some bank's private bank .. they buy spore properties with part cash and part loans from the bank here ..
Foreigner don't have CPF right... so the 10% rules does not have any effect...
In fact, 70% LTV also does not apply to them. Unless they have strong income in Singapore, else it is usually hard for them to get more than 70% loan.
Let's me try...
The new measures is a poison for HDB but a cure for Private.
Govt closed the path for private property owner to purchase HDB as a mean for cheaper housing. This group of HDB buyers are belonging to rich categories in HDB buyer market.
As for private, rules on SSD, LTV on additional property and 10% cash payment KILL "worms" in private property market. So, in long term it is good for private.
Or do you disagree?
Agree. Kill the greedy down grader and promote the up grader.
But I now know very sure who will get my votes come election day.
Regulators
30-08-10, 22:55
KNN.... MBT thinking with his butt. If this is a pre-election move, I think it is a blunder. With such a move, I definitely won't vote for PAP...:doh: :doh:
proud owner
30-08-10, 23:11
KNN.... MBT thinking with his butt. If this is a pre-election move, I think it is a blunder. With such a move, I definitely won't vote for PAP...:doh: :doh:
they have another weapon ...
they will redraw the zone .. so that u no need to vote
Remove these private property owners buying resale HDBs means HDB flats prices will go nowhere for now! Good! These people then will just concentrate on private. :p
govt is trying to deliver a message: pte ppty owners shd keep their playing field within pte ppty and let the less fortunate have the chance of owning a HDB....by removing this pool of buyers out from HDB market so tat they can continue to import more immigrants into SG....WIN-WIN
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 23:25
Agree. Kill the greedy down grader and promote the up grader.
But I now know very sure who will get my votes come election day.
Yeah me too. Kudos to Mr Mah Bow Tan and the PAP!!!. I will surely vote PAP again! :D :D :D
Remove these private property owners buying resale HDBs means HDB flats prices will go nowhere for now! Good! These people then will just concentrate on private. :p
+1 - whole purpose of new measures is to allow singaporeans to own a home at reasonable prices. Idiots who take away those homes for speculation have to suffer now...
Regulators
30-08-10, 23:32
their votes in percentage falling over the years no matter how they draw the boundaries.
they have another weapon ...
they will redraw the zone .. so that u no need to vote
Good job MBT. Good job LHL. Return HDB flats to their original intention - i.e. cheap public housing for the masses. The wicked are those who own private properties and yet buy resale HDBs to speculate hence causing HDB flats going for almost $1m and COV > $30k (really over the limits)!
+1 - whole purpose of new measures is to allow singaporeans to own a home at reasonable prices. Idiots who take away those homes for speculation have to suffer now...
I think there will be some exceptions. But they probably have to agree to sell their HDB flat within X years after moving into the private property. But frankly, if your friend has to resort to 80% loan without any buffer, then don't buy. I've never bought a property with 80% loan.
From an investment standpoint, there's really no point holding on to an HDB "asset" that will almost certain grow slower than private property market - not forgetting it's 99LH with lease term running down slapped with an 5-years MOP for all future buyers. I think with these new rules, government has made it really clear that HDB is not an investment class. If you want capital appreciation with no restrictions, go to the private property market.
Resale HDB will almost certain fall. Your friend would have to fork out more money to upgrade to private now. You see, it is not the case whereby they only have 20% as downpayment, just that in their younger days, whereby most seek to gain financial freedom, their savings were to pay off the HDB loan, not knowing that years later aspiration change, and their assets are trapped in the HDB.(I always tell my younger colleagues, not to be in a hurry to pay off HDB loans if they have the intention to upgrade in the future).The HDB flats are now worth about 600k with hdb loan of slightly more than 100k. So unless they sell the flats, they are unable to cash out. And remember we are talking about the average Joe, who may be an engineer or civil servant (non-scholar) from humble family background.
proud owner
30-08-10, 23:38
Remove these private property owners buying resale HDBs means HDB flats prices will go nowhere for now! Good! These people then will just concentrate on private. :p
well provided these people have enuff cash .. cos they no longer can take 80 pct financing
the way i see it ..
there are many speculators in private condos as well .. who take 80 pct on every single property they purchase..
and if the base support ( HDB upgraders) is suppressed...the upward buying trend will slow down ..
i am not saying it will collapse ,,but see a prolong stagnation ... to slight down ...
devilplate
30-08-10, 23:41
KNN.... MBT thinking with his butt. If this is a pre-election move, I think it is a blunder. With such a move, I definitely won't vote for PAP...:doh: :doh:
y ?:confused:
...........I always tell my younger colleagues, not to be in a hurry to pay off HDB loans if they have the intention to upgrade in the future)..........And remember we are talking about the average Joe, who may be an engineer or civil servant (non-scholar) from humble family background.
Sir,
How to tell if/when you will be earning big buck and buy bigger house in later years?Or how sure, ones can expect/predict his career path? Maybe a fresh graduate needs factor in Daddy's Money in his financial plan, or maybe the possibility of wifey "Joint venture".:doh:
The Government has taken up my idea about SSD! :scared-4:
I think Mah Bow Tan surfs this website and copied my idea! :scared-4:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=84755&postcount=2
However, their implementation is a bit mild.:( I had suggested:
30% for properties sold within 10 years;
20% for properties sold between 10 and 20 years;
10% for properties sold between 20 and 30 years;
Zero thereafter.
Geylang OKT
30-08-10, 23:51
Evil speculators die pain pain :D
y ?:confused:
Simple reason, as Mr. Regulator does not belong to the average/below average income earner of 1 000 000 singkees.:cool:
Regulators
30-08-10, 23:53
who do u think the govt is trying to appease with their measures?
y ?:confused:
devilplate
30-08-10, 23:54
well provided these people have enuff cash .. cos they no longer can take 80 pct financing
the way i see it ..
there are many speculators in private condos as well .. who take 80 pct on every single property they purchase..
and if the base support ( HDB upgraders) is suppressed...the upward buying trend will slow down ..
i am not saying it will collapse ,,but see a prolong stagnation ... to slight down ...
some say mass market condo affected the most....some say resale HDB...some say 1-3mil quantum(me)...and some say prime luxury will NOT be affected...BUT u guys din realise tat alot of firesales last yr which actually sold at a loss r mostly from high end projects....today saw a ad claiming seller selling at a loss of 500k(dunwan to name the project...u can flip and find it out urself)
to those who claim high end investors will be least affected r really living in self denial
who do u think the govt is trying to appease with their measures?
Don't worry Mr. Regulator, garment will give the sweets to the group you belong, after the election. They knew the game and singkees too long already...
devilplate
31-08-10, 00:03
who do u think the govt is trying to appease with their measures?
anything wrong with their measures? care to explain?
the only thing i can find fault which i find it unfair to existing pte ppty owners who wants to genuinely buy to stay in a HDB and rent out their condo instead: HDB shd revert back to the old policy whereby one must continue to stay in the HDB after they bot a pte ppty....
however, these r the minority....majority will be taking the standard path of buying a HDB first den buy pte ppty
devilplate
31-08-10, 00:11
i had nvr enjoyed any privileges being a sporean at all!! be it HDB or landed and i am still serving Fxxx reservist....i belong to the MOST UNHAPPIEST LOT!
however, i always look at the big picture....i tink Mr Mah is GOOD....simply heck care developers and JUST DO IT!
these slew of measures also prove tat govt genuinely wana cool down the ppty market by releasing huge supply of GLS and NOT taking the opportunity to sell
MAN IS SELFISH AND GREEDY AND THAT EXPLAINS BOOM AND DOOM ECONOMIC CYCLE
The Government has taken up my idea about SSD! :scared-4:
I think Mah Bow Tan surfs this website and copied my idea! :scared-4:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=84755&postcount=2
However, their implementation is a bit mild.:( I had suggested:
30% for properties sold within 10 years;
20% for properties sold between 10 and 20 years;
10% for properties sold between 20 and 30 years;
Zero thereafter.
i suggested 5 yrs MOP, now it came true hahaha!
proud owner
31-08-10, 00:25
i had nvr enjoyed any privileges being a sporean at all!! be it HDB or landed and i am still serving Fxxx reservist....i belong to the MOST UNHAPPIEST LOT!
however, i always look at the big picture....i tink Mr Mah is GOOD....simply heck care developers and JUST DO IT!
these slew of measures also prove tat govt genuinely wana cool down the ppty market by releasing huge supply of GLS and NOT taking the opportunity to sell
MAN IS SELFISH AND GREEDY AND THAT EXPLAINS BOOM AND DOOM ECONOMIC CYCLE
bro
many many moons ago .. in 2006/7 i already said ..
developers are govt's best friend ...
govt will NOT spend money to build nice building .. .
its the developers ..
they are in constant dialogue .. at least with the big players ..
developers wont lose money lah ... why u think they rushed to launch?
by now almost all sold at least 75 pct .. more than cover their cost (with profit) ..
its the small player developers who never kana invited to the high teas who are not in the loop will lose out lor ..
devilplate
31-08-10, 00:36
bro
many many moons ago .. in 2006/7 i already said ..
developers are govt's best friend ...
govt will NOT spend money to build nice building .. .
its the developers ..
they are in constant dialogue .. at least with the big players ..
developers wont lose money lah ... why u think they rushed to launch?
by now almost all sold at least 75 pct .. more than cover their cost (with profit) ..
its the small player developers who never kana invited to the high teas who are not in the loop will lose out lor ..
wat makes u tink developers r rushing to launch for the past few mths bcoz they 'know' more cooling measures r coming???
it is very natural for developers to launch as many projects they have during boom times...especially u r toking about GLS 99lh land.....bro, u tink too much....:p
proud owner
31-08-10, 00:58
wat makes u tink developers r rushing to launch for the past few mths bcoz they 'know' more cooling measures r coming???
it is very natural for developers to launch as many projects they have during boom times...especially u r toking about GLS 99lh land.....bro, u tink too much....:p
hahah
well up to you to believe ...or not
in the past they dont launch within a yr of acquiring the land ...thats evident enuff to tell they are in a hurry to offload
anyway .. u can choose not to believe
devilplate
31-08-10, 01:01
so now SG ppty will be dead quiet?
high end still hopeless despite many analyst been toking up tat segment...
mass-mid end will be quiet for the next few mths as buyer/seller unsure what's next...
even our 'vibrant' hdb resale ppty will haf their brakes jammed...
2006/07, we tok about firesales in 2009/10 when all projects TOP as many bot at 90% loan and on deferred payment without securing bank loan...
no more deferred payment....developer create IAS....govt bey song also ban IAS and now goes back to NPS......
from 90% ltv since 2005 to 80% in feb 2010 and we r seeing 70% ltv now...only means one thing....HARDER TO FIND FREE FALL DURIANS IN FUTURE!!!!!:( :mad: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
bargain hunter
31-08-10, 01:06
so explains hoi hup's 30% over next highest bid at yishun last week hahahahaha.
bro
many many moons ago .. in 2006/7 i already said ..
developers are govt's best friend ...
govt will NOT spend money to build nice building .. .
its the developers ..
they are in constant dialogue .. at least with the big players ..
developers wont lose money lah ... why u think they rushed to launch?
by now almost all sold at least 75 pct .. more than cover their cost (with profit) ..
its the small player developers who never kana invited to the high teas who are not in the loop will lose out lor ..
proud owner
31-08-10, 01:09
so explains hoi hup's 30% over next highest bid at yishun last week hahahahaha.
with a name like Hoi Hup .. chances are not invited to high teas ..
maybe they get invited to PSC .. provision supplies ... thinking they sell Dark Soy sauce
devilplate
31-08-10, 01:09
hahah
well up to you to believe ...or not
in the past they dont launch within a yr of acquiring the land ...thats evident enuff to tell they are in a hurry to offload
anyway .. u can choose not to believe
in the past, i am still studying silly and useless piece of crappy toilet paper....i also dun understand y parents so anxious about enrolling their kids in top schools....alot of things i dun understand but to some it is so damn obvious and evident
proud owner
31-08-10, 01:13
in the past, i am still studying silly and useless piece of crappy toilet paper....i also dun understand y parents so anxious about enrolling their kids in top schools....alot of things i dun understand but to some it is so damn obvious and evident
cannot say crappy toilet paper lah ...
at least now u still own several properties right ?
also toilet paper has many different quality ..some 2 ply, some 3 ply ..some got floral print ,
some can be used to wipe mouth ... hehehe
Property_Owner
31-08-10, 01:13
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
devilplate
31-08-10, 01:22
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
50% agreed ....HDB prices will be the last segment to come down BUT i believe COV will drop:D
with a name like Hoi Hup .. chances are not invited to high teas ..
maybe they get invited to PSC .. provision supplies ... thinking they sell Dark Soy sauce
LOL!!
Got a question to ask...
Let say i buy a property using solely wifey's name, cos i hv a existing loan, is she considered a first time buyer? Would bank give her the 80% loan?
She is not working n no property under her name.
Regulators
31-08-10, 01:32
The supply will shrink becoz of long MOP and HDB owners who give up their flats after staying for 5 years will ask for even higher prices to compensate them for staying out the MOP.
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
proud owner
31-08-10, 01:34
LOL!!
Got a question to ask...
Let say i buy a property using solely wifey's name, cos i hv a existing loan, is she considered a first time buyer? Would bank give her the 80% loan?
She is not working n no property under her name.
with no income, i dont think she can get 80 pct financing.
unless the bank agrees to let you be her guarantor
i know of people whose retired parents bought properties in their name and have children as financier
devilplate
31-08-10, 01:34
LOL!!
Got a question to ask...
Let say i buy a property using solely wifey's name, cos i hv a existing loan, is she considered a first time buyer? Would bank give her the 80% loan?
She is not working n no property under her name.
not working can only take max 60% loan lah and mabe required to show few hundred Ks cash deposit if she do not haf any collateral...:D
dangerous to put wifey's name (sorry, i seen too many HK drama series):D
proud owner
31-08-10, 01:35
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
God has spoken
i think market will be very quiet for a long while ...
the longer it stays quiet, the more chance for COV to deminish
Regulators
31-08-10, 01:42
no need to go bank lah, just loan directly from Property_Owner, I think he can give you a better rate than any bank :D :D
not working can only take max 60% loan lah and mabe required to show few hundred Ks cash deposit if she do not haf any collateral...:D
dangerous to put wifey's name (sorry, i seen too many HK drama series):D
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
In fact they will go up.
Anyone who doesn't believe can try and imagine what will happen if the Government implements my suggestion of SSD.
30% for properties sold within 10 years;
20% for properties sold between 10 and 20 years;
10% for properties sold between 20 and 30 years;
Zero thereafter.
Someone has already answered the question below.
The supply will shrink becoz of long MOP and HDB owners who give up their flats after staying for 5 years will ask for even higher prices to compensate them for staying out the MOP.
devilplate
31-08-10, 01:57
no need to go bank lah, just loan directly from Property_Owner, I think he can give you a better rate than any bank :D :D
hmmm reminds me of the silly birdie tat lost so much at RWS....
tats y i mentioned: change 10mil chips and only donate 1mil!
i tend to lose all the chips i changed:o
bro
many many moons ago .. in 2006/7 i already said ..
developers are govt's best friend ...
govt will NOT spend money to build nice building .. .
its the developers ..
they are in constant dialogue .. at least with the big players ..
developers wont lose money lah ... why u think they rushed to launch?
by now almost all sold at least 75 pct .. more than cover their cost (with profit) ..
its the small player developers who never kana invited to the high teas who are not in the loop will lose out lor ..
Have to chip in to this "wise insight"... words of wisdom :)
Let me try to tell u a story of 2 friends. 1 is call Gaff and the other 1 call Dees
Gaff and Dees - note the plural form of Dees
Dees have been growing and living in Singapore...
One day, Gaff came into power....
Gaff had a game plan... he talks to Dees...
Dees agreed to keep their relationship private.
Both had secret meetings...
Gaff talks only to Big Dees... small ones are ignored. Big Dess will take care of them or share to them if they want to.
Both agree to partner and sell the Singapore Dream to Singaporeans and the world. The common vision for Singapore.
The YOG games begin....
Some Dees come and go... but the Big Ones remains. Gaff invest in Dees through private vehicle... then Gaff make sure that Dees are successful... when Dess are very successful, the HDB folks are not happy and Gaff may lose its office. So it announces goodies for HDB folks before the elections..
They win....
After they win... Dees not happy with Gaff... Private property owners not happy
Gaff reversed the policy... 3 years later
HDB folks happy and Private property owners happy..
They win again
And the winners are Gaff and Dees.... Gaffs wins big (Gaff is the Casino).
Draw ur own insights.
The rules mainly are all affecting demand side... on the cash portion. However, the rule that private property owners have to sell their private properties if they buy a resale HDB is another tool.
The effects of it is to make sure that
1. HDB pries will not be driven up by Pte Property Owner's high COV. It will come down, the COV part. It keeps price stable. But the reduced affordability will result in a small drop in demand and prices... still acceptable. up to 20% drop but should be 3 to 5% in my views.
2. Private property owners will not touch HDB and they can continue to play private... demand for HDB switched to Private. Private still ok... But the reduced affordability will result in a small drop in demand and prices... still acceptable... up to 20% drop but should be 3 to 5% in my views.
3. First time owners will go for HDB first... HDB will be for self stay... they save, pay off and then buy private. Anyway first time owners are not likely to be able to afford Private if not for their rich parents. The working class will be trapped into HDBs. The successful ones can invest in Private thereafter.
So you can see... HDB prices will be stable... Govt can increase the land supply to moderate their Prices.. new HDB's might be priced lower if goverment wants to make it so. But it is in the interest of everyone for HDB to remain stable or to go up marginally.
Private owners can still play in Private playground...
Govt maintains a healthy balance to make them both happy...
As always Govt controls the supply. Restrictions affecting demand side can be increase or decrease as necessary.. It' beautiful isn't it?
I see. Unless the private Owners who buy hdb take up a large %, I don't see how this will impact the hdb price. But for private, the measures reduce speculations.. This should slowdown transaction volume, especially in mass market developments... My opinion.
Let's me try...
The new measures is a poison for HDB but a cure for Private.
Govt closed the path for private property owner to purchase HDB as a mean for cheaper housing. This group of HDB buyers are belonging to rich categories in HDB buyer market.
As for private, rules on SSD, LTV on additional property and 10% cash payment KILL "worms" in private property market. So, in long term it is good for private.
Or do you disagree?
Difficult to find fire-sales in future! But remember, Govt says they want sustainable property market appreciation, not to crash the property prices. That means they believe without these new measures they are afraid property prices will shoot up too fast and become unsustainable! Those still waiting to buy can kiss goodbye to their search for fire-sale, but one consolidation - the price rise will be slower for now (but for a more sustainable period => have to wait long long liao)!
so now SG ppty will be dead quiet?
high end still hopeless despite many analyst been toking up tat segment...
mass-mid end will be quiet for the next few mths as buyer/seller unsure what's next...
even our 'vibrant' hdb resale ppty will haf their brakes jammed...
2006/07, we tok about firesales in 2009/10 when all projects TOP as many bot at 90% loan and on deferred payment without securing bank loan...
no more deferred payment....developer create IAS....govt bey song also ban IAS and now goes back to NPS......
from 90% ltv since 2005 to 80% in feb 2010 and we r seeing 70% ltv now...only means one thing....HARDER TO FIND FREE FALL DURIANS IN FUTURE!!!!!:( :mad: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
Lookout for gradual moderation in the coming months:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=101926&postcount=2435
Difficult to find fire-sales in future! But remember, Govt says they want sustainable property market appreciation, not to crash the property prices. That means they believe without these new measures they are afraid property prices will shoot up too fast and become unsustainable! Those still waiting to buy can kiss goodbye to their search for fire-sale, but one consolidation - the price rise will be slower for now (but for a more sustainable period => have to wait long long liao)!
Agree it's not about correcting the market - mainly slowly down the price increase
Difficult to find fire-sales in future! But remember, Govt says they want sustainable property market appreciation, not to crash the property prices. That means they believe without these new measures they are afraid property prices will shoot up too fast and become unsustainable! Those still waiting to buy can kiss goodbye to their search for fire-sale, but one consolidation - the price rise will be slower for now (but for a more sustainable period => have to wait long long liao)!
once the IAS scheme kicks in, the chance of finding firesale already slim. anyone who is on IAS has to secure a bank loan so even with downturn, they can still hold on to the property unless they default payment. unlike deferred payment, the buyer only pay downpayment and betting on the price gain
As long as the economy is doing well, people have jobs and are confident of holding onto them, prices will not come down. Short term speculators have largely been weeded out with the removal of the IAS and one-year holding period for imposition of the SSD penalty. So, buyers are likely to be genuine ones. Consider the following possible scenarios:
1. There were many HDB sellers who sold their flats in recent months with high COV and are looking to buy a new home. Another HDB flat may be out of the question due to the 5-year MOP. So, they might now go for mass market condos; newly launched or TOP in 2011/2012.
2. "Downgrading" is no longer an option for Pte Pty owners. If they still want to invest, then mass market condos will be the next best option.
3. The 3-year holding period of the SSD will mean that buyers of new condos who exercise their OTP after 30 Aug will have to keep their units for at least 3 years until TOP maybe. This will effectively restrict the supply of resale condos in the next 3 years. Even if they decide to sell within this period, the price will most likely factor in the SSD penalty.
I think therefore, that the ones most likely to benefit from this (at least for the next 3 years), are those mass market condos that will TOP in 2011/2012, since demand might now shift towards them. The rental market might also pick up, since people cannot now buy a HDB to stay whilst waiting for their condos to complete. Previously, the 3-year timing was just right.
Regulators
31-08-10, 10:09
it doesn't matter how much you change, stay in the casino long enough and you lose all. Those who win must know when to exit, but most do not. You need the luck of a Leprechaun to beat a casino. I heard guys who have devices that can be clicked to help them calculate the probability of the numbers coming out in roulette by estimating the speed of the spinning roulette and the ball going round it. These guys have bluetooth connected to the devices and usually place bets on all the probable numbers, often quite accurate.
hmmm reminds me of the silly birdie tat lost so much at RWS....
tats y i mentioned: change 10mil chips and only donate 1mil!
i tend to lose all the chips i changed:o
In fact they will go up.
Anyone who doesn't believe can try and imagine what will happen if the Government implements my suggestion of SSD.
30% for properties sold within 10 years;
20% for properties sold between 10 and 20 years;
10% for properties sold between 20 and 30 years;
Zero thereafter.
Someone has already answered the question below.
That's right. Gahmen earns more from SSD all around, plus owners will ask higher and higher to cover all the SSD. And people will STILL bite.
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
Agreed, my take will be near town COV will stay & even move up if resale supply shrinks & demand still there. Far flung places COV might ease a little for the time being.
MBT used the word 'overheating' no know whether he still wants it nice & warm. hee! :D
Thank God I bought my pte ppty early this year.
How to cough out 30% downpayment when 20% already heir heir chuan:doh:
At least increase downpayment to 25% sounds reasonable to cool off market. 30% will definitely douse the upgraders' dream of owning a pte ppty while the political masters all live in pte ppty, of of them land somemore:doh:
All HDB upgraders affected by this rule should vent their frustrations at next GE:simmering:
With the new ruling, pte owner wanted to buy HDB definitely got killed.
Just wonder, the high COV for HDB is it really due to this group of pte buyers? Or is it PR in need of a house urgently r willing to pay high COV to secure their house? :tsk-tsk:
Agree it's not about correcting the market - mainly slowly down the price increase
Slowly appreciate is unreal. Trying to artificially use rules to manipulate is not so easy. Property cycles in real life never slowly increase for prolong period of time. Will either surge, stagnate, correct or even crash. That's the fun of it.
i suggested 5 yrs MOP, now it came true hahaha!
you and your big mouth...ha ha ..joking no offence..:D
The rules mainly are all affecting demand side... on the cash portion. However, the rule that private property owners have to sell their private properties if they buy a resale HDB is another tool.
The effects of it is to make sure that
1. HDB pries will not be driven up by Pte Property Owner's high COV. It will come down, the COV part. It keeps price stable. But the reduced affordability will result in a small drop in demand and prices... still acceptable. up to 20% drop but should be 3 to 5% in my views.
2. Private property owners will not touch HDB and they can continue to play private... demand for HDB switched to Private. Private still ok... But the reduced affordability will result in a small drop in demand and prices... still acceptable... up to 20% drop but should be 3 to 5% in my views.
3. First time owners will go for HDB first... HDB will be for self stay... they save, pay off and then buy private. Anyway first time owners are not likely to be able to afford Private if not for their rich parents. The working class will be trapped into HDBs. The successful ones can invest in Private thereafter.
So you can see... HDB prices will be stable... Govt can increase the land supply to moderate their Prices.. new HDB's might be priced lower if goverment wants to make it so. But it is in the interest of everyone for HDB to remain stable or to go up marginally.
Private owners can still play in Private playground...
Govt maintains a healthy balance to make them both happy...
As always Govt controls the supply. Restrictions affecting demand side can be increase or decrease as necessary.. It' beautiful isn't it?
I think private palyground also becomes smaller now as 10% cash and also loan at 70% with SSD at 3 years kick in...
That's right. Gahmen earns more from SSD all around, plus owners will ask higher and higher to cover all the SSD. And people will STILL bite.
People will still bite as the word "upgrading" is very attractive to people in singapore....upgrade car upgrade house upgrade kids to good school if possible...it is a show of status...:D
devilplate
31-08-10, 11:08
Slowly appreciate is unreal. Trying to artificially use rules to manipulate is not so easy. Property cycles in real life never slowly increase for prolong period of time. Will either surge, stagnate, correct or even crash. That's the fun of it.
u r very right!
govt intervention to the free market can only temperorary supress the market forces....the main factor lies with the broader economy....if economies continue to grow, this measures will create a pent up demand again and results in a price surge later on....and new measures will have to kick in.....
BUT i remain my main point: impossible to time market oredi and much harder to grab free fall durians in next GSS(probably only hope for developer's GSS sale)
on the flip side: if broader economy crash in near term together with these cooling measures....the market will crash even more:scared-1:
well not true leh ..
say at the point of purchase, the couple can only afford a HDB, so buy what they can afford lor ..
2 yrs later, say they both got promotion, from a junior banker to a star trader and $$ can really jump .. i have seen it myself
so they want to now pamper themselves with what they can afford ..
but kana HDB ruling, cannot buy private ..
so use cash now and buy private in parent's name
Provided the parents are not staying with them in the HDB. The new rules apply to both owners and occupiers of the HDB flat, i.e. occupiers cannot own private properties too during the 5-year MOP.
Provided the parents are not staying with them in the HDB. The new rules apply to both owners and occupiers of the HDB flat, i.e. occupiers cannot own private properties too during the 5-year MOP.
Are you sure about this, where is your source?
Mark my words.
HDB prices and COV will not go down.
agree. these measures will make HDB scarce and the price & COV will not drop
devilplate
31-08-10, 11:24
Provided the parents are not staying with them in the HDB. The new rules apply to both owners and occupiers of the HDB flat, i.e. occupiers cannot own private properties too during the 5-year MOP.
anyway, its not so simple to buy under parent's name lah...
if buy under ur parent's name, ur wife will KPKB....so, u goto include in-laws as well....more ppl involve= more headache...haha:D
Maybe he aimed to do that and asked HDB about it already?:scared-4:
Or worse! HDB reads about it on this forum and is going to implement this!?? :doh:
Are you sure about this, where is your source?
Hoho...20000 new HDB flats, DBSS + ECs...scarce? You do the math...
agree. these measures will make HDB scarce and the price & COV will not drop
devilplate
31-08-10, 11:32
Hoho...20000 new HDB flats, DBSS + ECs...scarce? You do the math...
remember...all these supply controls by the govt....if the current BTO falls short of 70% allotment, will govt so silly to push out more and more BTO????
govt can always adjust their supply.....but the problem with housing is: it takes 3yrs to build....there is always a imperfection in timing and also info(no live trading data unlike stocks)
so if we tok about the REAL huge supply of resale flats....it will be 3yrs construction+5yrs MOP=8yrs time
Yup...so gahmen push out a figure...saying they can supply this large number of units (and I'm sure they can do it), and the market stabilises because of all these other measures....gahmen rolls these out in stages to test mkt again...if response not good, then they can always postpone release of other units, thereby controlling pricing...
remember...all these supply controls by the govt....if the current BTO falls short of 70% allotment, will govt so silly to push out more and more BTO????
govt can always adjust their supply.....but the problem with housing is: it takes 3yrs to build....there is always a imperfection in timing and also info(no live trading data unlike stocks)
so if we tok about the REAL huge supply of resale flats....it will be 3yrs construction+5yrs MOP=8yrs time
These measures will cause the mass market private properties and MM units to go up even more I think, while having a negative impact on mid to high end private properties.
- More price sensitive HDB owners thinking of upgrading will now go for mass market and MM units, now than middle end units are priced out of their reach by the higher cash component required and lower LTV loan given.
- Private property owners aiming for HDB as investment properties now have to increase their budgets a bit and go for mass market/MM Units.
- The seller's stamp duty is a form of capital gains tax and this will whack the middle and high end units hard.
agree. these measures will make HDB scarce and the price & COV will not drop
u forgot to use the word 'resale HDB', kena shoot by others :p.
My friend who owns no property just asked me a question: He plans to marry his fiancee soon and she co-owns a private property with her brother left behind by her late parent. With the new rule, Must she sells her private property within 6 months once they buy a resale HDB to start a family?
My friend told me his fiancee can't sell as her brother family is currently living in it.
So how to start a family?
With the new ruling, pte owner wanted to buy HDB definitely got killed.
Just wonder, the high COV for HDB is it really due to this group of pte buyers? Or is it PR in need of a house urgently r willing to pay high COV to secure their house? :tsk-tsk:
MBT mentioned 10% of transaction are Pte buying resale HDB, half hold & half resell, so 5% is pte speculating it. The other 90% is made up of?
devilplate
31-08-10, 12:00
My friend who owns no property just asked me a question: He plans to marry his fiancee soon and she co-owns a private property with her brother left behind by her late parent. With the new rule, Must she sells her private property within 6 months once they buy a resale HDB to start a family?
My friend told me his fiancee can't sell as her brother family is currently living in it.
So how to start a family?
wah...big headache....tats the problem with co-own....
bo pian liao..buy mass market pte
My friend who owns no property just asked me a question: He plans to marry his fiancee soon and she co-owns a private property with her brother left behind by her late parent. With the new rule, Must she sells her private property within 6 months once they buy a resale HDB to start a family?
My friend told me his fiancee can't sell as her brother family is currently living in it.
So how to start a family?
one option is to ask brother pay her half the mkt value & withdraw her name.
devilplate
31-08-10, 12:03
one option is to ask brother pay her half the mkt value & withdraw her name.
nid to pay in cash leh....how to....unless her bro cash rich....cannot owe somemore if she use CPF as part of the financing
persuade her bro to sell and both family buy HDB!!!:D
Are you sure about this, where is your source?
From HDB website. http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10326p.nsf/w/ChgOwnerAddOccupiers?OpenDocument
Even if their parents live apart and have their own homes, they will need to fork out the 10% cash and 20% from CPF as the property for their children will be considered a second property under their name. Check-mate by the govt.
Difficult to find fire-sales in future! But remember, Govt says they want sustainable property market appreciation, not to crash the property prices. That means they believe without these new measures they are afraid property prices will shoot up too fast and become unsustainable! Those still waiting to buy can kiss goodbye to their search for fire-sale, but one consolidation - the price rise will be slower for now (but for a more sustainable period => have to wait long long liao)!
BUT i remain my main point: impossible to time market oredi and much harder to grab free fall durians in next GSS(probably only hope for developer's GSS sale)
The sentiments expressed by the two property veterans above can be best summarised by the blue curve below.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/PropertyPriceCooling.jpg
My friend who owns no property just asked me a question: He plans to marry his fiancee soon and she co-owns a private property with her brother left behind by her late parent. With the new rule, Must she sells her private property within 6 months once they buy a resale HDB to start a family?
My friend told me his fiancee can't sell as her brother family is currently living in it.
So how to start a family?
Yes, if she is an occupier of the new flat according to the new HDB rules.
It is stated that the "Proposed occupiers must not have an interest in any private property. Proposed occupiers can however be ex-owners of private property (including HUDC Phase 1 and 2 flats and pre-war flats)."
Not if "ex-owners" mean that they have to dispose of the pte ppty or transfer the name to someone else.
Wild Falcon
31-08-10, 12:49
Good one. Unfortunately, none of the "experts" will read it that way. They will just analyse on the surface & conclude without much thought that HDB will collapse and mass market will collapse. They did not realise the rules is intended to wipe out the investors and speculators. And these are the most dominant in condos with high tenancy rate which is usually mid to high end. Most mass market condos are for self-stay. Go to those condos with a lot of foreigners. These are the "investor" condos that will be hit as lower LTV means the investment becomes less lucrative. Not forgetting interest rate can increase any time in the future. So why tie up your monies on something that may have limited upside when u do not intend to stay there? If you have $500-$600k to spare, bond market will be infinitely more lucrative than SG properties. Those small (2 bedders and below) condos around the $1.5m range dominated by tenants will be the most hit, e.g. Newton/Novena and River Valley.
These measures will cause the mass market private properties and MM units to go up even more I think, while having a negative impact on mid to high end private properties.
- More price sensitive HDB owners thinking of upgrading will now go for mass market and MM units, now than middle end units are priced out of their reach by the higher cash component required and lower LTV loan given.
- Private property owners aiming for HDB as investment properties now have to increase their budgets a bit and go for mass market/MM Units.
- The seller's stamp duty is a form of capital gains tax and this will whack the middle and high end units hard.
on 1 hand they tighten, on the other hand they aim to import at least 100k foreign workers (assuming the number is even accurate, almost all mid to low end workers), so how will hdb and mass mkt prices really move? lol
as long as this foreign worker tap is not turned off, the measures will only have momentary impact.. and after awhile back to square one again hehehe
The sentiments expressed by the two property veterans above can be best summarised by the blue curve below.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/PropertyPriceCooling.jpg
According to this graph, the price will hit 100,000psf real soon...
very chim...so going up or down?:ashamed1:
These measures will cause the mass market private properties and MM units to go up even more I think, while having a negative impact on mid to high end private properties.
- More price sensitive HDB owners thinking of upgrading will now go for mass market and MM units, now than middle end units are priced out of their reach by the higher cash component required and lower LTV loan given.
- Private property owners aiming for HDB as investment properties now have to increase their budgets a bit and go for mass market/MM Units.
- The seller's stamp duty is a form of capital gains tax and this will whack the middle and high end units hard.
Huh? Isn't this opposite to the intent of the measures released by the government? I mean the measures are to help make HDB more affordable (of course not to collapse the price but to make its increase more gradual) and for stay and not for speculation.
Why would government want to make high end properties more affordable since these are coveted by the rich investors anyway whom the gahmen is trying to attract to Singapore?
Caveat: I am a non investor of property, just have a place for my own stay...
+1 - whole purpose of new measures is to allow singaporeans to own a home at reasonable prices. Idiots who take away those homes for speculation have to suffer now...
yes yes! And MBT should do something with ppl staying at pte pty and renting out the HDB to foreigners for the next step! :tongue3:
can anyone help me with these questions:
Can i check if these changes only apply from 30th aug (yesterday) or can be backdated?
Ie. if i currently own 2 properties - one HDB bought in 2007, one condo bought in 2009, the MOP that applies is 3 yrs, not 5 yrs right?
Also with regards to the change that pte property owners cannot own HDB, they must sell their existing pte property - this also does not apply if we have bought our properties few yrs back, am i right?
thanks in advance!
Yes, if she is an occupier of the new flat according to the new HDB rules.
It is stated that the "Proposed occupiers must not have an interest in any private property. Proposed occupiers can however be ex-owners of private property (including HUDC Phase 1 and 2 flats and pre-war flats)."
Not if "ex-owners" mean that they have to dispose of the pte ppty or transfer the name to someone else.
how can she be an "occupier" of the new HDB flat when you need husband and wife to be co-owners to buy a HDB?
also, looking at the website, how many of you update your children as occupiers of the flat when they are born???
u forgot to use the word 'resale HDB', kena shoot by others :p.
ya lor......wounded!!! haha
My friend who owns no property just asked me a question: He plans to marry his fiancee soon and she co-owns a private property with her brother left behind by her late parent. With the new rule, Must she sells her private property within 6 months once they buy a resale HDB to start a family?
My friend told me his fiancee can't sell as her brother family is currently living in it.
So how to start a family?
See the MP session may help.
I tink HDB do an auto inclusion upon registration of the BC
how can she be an "occupier" of the new HDB flat when you need husband and wife to be co-owners to buy a HDB?
also, looking at the website, how many of you update your children as occupiers of the flat when they are born???
nid to pay in cash leh....how to....unless her bro cash rich....cannot owe somemore if she use CPF as part of the financing
persuade her bro to sell and both family buy HDB!!!:D
don't play play, sekali that current condo value worth a lot, might be enough for both bro & sis to pay 80% for 1st ppty & 70% of 2nd for each of them. 1 condo split into 4. :D Lagi Huat!!
CDL counter has dropped another 40cents today for now. Lowest was $11.04.
I believe the measures will not have much impact after initial 1-2 months of look-see-look-see. Why?
1. Too much liquidity around
2. Many old timer investers still suffers from Lehman debacle, so will stick to property
3. Low interest rate environment to last for a while
4. Developers will reconfigure offering to ensure similar cash quantum to move MM units
5. Foreigners are still arriving in droves.
6. Developers will cherry-pick the sites released by URA and price upwards accordingly. No one wanna be stupid to reduce price first. See case of no bidders for Jurong West EC site. If government want to reduce price, land sale must be sequentially taken up, next site only available after earlier ones are sold.
Good for long-term investment for private properties, bad for those who want to buy HDB flats to invest because of higher yield (because Govt don't want people to treat HDB flats as investment and drive up the price).
Outcomes:
1) HDB prices stagnant.
2) Investors cannot invest in HDB flats, so have to turn to private if they still want to invest in properties.
3) Reduce private properties flipping through the 3yrs reducing sellers' stamp duty. The slower and longer the property prices rise, more investors (especially foreign investors) will have more confident to invest in Singapore properties (no quick boom & even quicker burst) (in other words, more investors get sucked in as they see sustainable price rises).
Short-term transaction volumes drop, long term property prices rise more sustainable and can even climb much higher for high-end properties (sorry, not mass market because they are already quite high and most Singaporeans can't afford that type of price >$1200 psf anyway and Govt scare sub-prime like US). Already, we are hearing complaints of the cash downpayment rising from 5% to 10%. For high-end properties, how much is that to the buyers? :p
I believe the measures will not have much impact after initial 1-2 months of look-see-look-see. Why?
1. Too much liquidity around
2. Many old timer investers still suffers from Lehman debacle, so will stick to property
3. Low interest rate environment to last for a while
4. Developers will reconfigure offering to ensure similar cash quantum to move MM units
5. Foreigners are still arriving in droves.
6. Developers will cherry-pick the sites released by URA and price upwards accordingly. No one wanna be stupid to reduce price first. See case of no bidders for Jurong West EC site. If government want to reduce price, land sale must be sequentially taken up, next site only available after earlier ones are sold.
MBT mentioned 10% of transaction are Pte buying resale HDB, half hold & half resell, so 5% is pte speculating it. The other 90% is made up of?
Hmm..... Maybe really the 10% of pte owners really chases the Cov up up up. Even Good that now things are going back to the norm for the 90% of resale HDB buyers hee....cheers
stalingrad
31-08-10, 14:59
There are many ways to skin a cat. but you guys are carried away. those rich in high end condos say the measures will benefit them, and those that are rich in hdb and MM units are saying that the measures will benefit them instead.
what can the government do to really scare you into not speculating? Do they really have to send in firing squads?
Hi guys,
What happens if a person has a home loan and just signed the OTP for another private property last week before 30th August. Will the bank loan 80% or 70%? Thanks!
yes yes! And MBT should do something with ppl staying at pte pty and renting out the HDB to foreigners for the next step! :tongue3:
xiao ar..than where those so called" foreign talent" from low end countries stay? ask them to buy resale hdb or private condo?? i dont think it is possible unless work for few years...and some just go for renting eg foreign students...garmen want to import foreign talents so housing is one issue unless you want garmen to push all resale HDB price now too...:D
Reflex action bro...everyone's trying to focus on the silver lining and trying not to be scared shitless by the possibility of getting screwed by all these new measures..hoho....:p
The truth is lurking round the corner...it seems all will be affected...
There are many ways to skin a cat. but you guys are carried away. those rich in high end condos say the measures will benefit them, and those that are rich in hdb and MM units are saying that the measures will benefit them instead.
what can the government do to really scare you into not speculating? Do they really have to send in firing squads?
xiao ar..than where those so called" foreign talent" from low end countries stay? ask them to buy resale hdb or private condo?? i dont think it is possible unless work for few years...and some just go for renting eg foreign students...garmen want to import foreign talents so housing is one issue unless you want garmen to push all resale HDB price now too...:D
Foreign workers can stay in company housing foreign student can stay on campus. I think it is unfair to let people use their HDB flat to "make money" buy renting it out, afterall HDB is suppose to be for those that need a house to stay not for greedy people. Hope government do something about this.:2cents: :D
Hi guys,
What happens if a person has a home loan and just signed the OTP for another private property last week before 30th August. Will the bank loan 80% or 70%? Thanks!
Relax. 80% confirmed. Your banker should have already told you.
Geylang OKT
31-08-10, 16:20
Relax. 80% confirmed. Your banker should have already told you.
why some people simply donch understand from 30th August 2010?:doh:
rattydrama
31-08-10, 16:23
The influx of PRs came down over the last 24 months after Singaporean aired their discomfort.
In my view, the adjustment of the HDB price will be stable depending on which estate we refers.
HDB resale price no longer can fetch high COV for 30 Aug announcement.
Right now HDB resale will cater to those buying for home stay. So transaction will be low. Price shall maintain with low/No COV.
Once government accepted more PR applications after the election, HDB resale transaction will move again. It is usually for those estate that has got cheaper resale transaction or estate that these PRs are familiar with.
I believe those HDB in Woodlands/Sembawang/Yishun estate will have marginally increase whereas those in Bishan will stabilize since the resale price has been driven up over the last 18 months by those private property investor with high COV.
anyway, its not so simple to buy under parent's name lah...
if buy under ur parent's name, ur wife will KPKB....so, u goto include in-laws as well....more ppl involve= more headache...haha:D
And if any of them die without a will....... intestate will kick in. You will then find out if you or wife have greedy siblings. Especially nice for them as they don't have name on mortgage - all equity , no debt risk :D :cool:
Wah Lau! Idea siah...time to convince my rich siblings to buy property under my parents name!
:spliff:
And if any of them die without a will....... intestate will kick in. You will then find out if you or wife have greedy siblings. Especially nice for them as they don't have name on mortgage - all equity , no debt risk :D :cool:
Foreign workers can stay in company housing foreign student can stay on campus. I think it is unfair to let people use their HDB flat to "make money" buy renting it out, afterall HDB is suppose to be for those that need a house to stay not for greedy people. Hope government do something about this.:2cents: :D
Dont worry government will do something about it if the percentage of those owning hdb flats and staying in private is increasing or significant..but seems that this is not the case...it has been shut off by this drastic measures liao....
Geylang OKT
31-08-10, 17:14
Give it another 6 months and then I think the pty market will be down to more sustainable levels :D
can anyone help me with these questions:
Can i check if these changes only apply from 30th aug (yesterday) or can be backdated?
Ie. if i currently own 2 properties - one HDB bought in 2007, one condo bought in 2009, the MOP that applies is 3 yrs, not 5 yrs right?
Also with regards to the change that pte property owners cannot own HDB, they must sell their existing pte property - this also does not apply if we have bought our properties few yrs back, am i right?
thanks in advance!
You are very safe. You may find ur ans in this link
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10325p.nsf/w/PrivatePtyProcedures?OpenDocument
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