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cl0ver
07-09-10, 10:00
SINGAPORE: The Singapore Government is moving to encourage more Permanent Residents in the country to take up citizenship.

Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong said some PRs will be approached to become citizens and if they don't do so, their status will not be renewed.

Immigration was one of many issues tackled during a dialogue session with over 200 residents from Marine Parade to gather feedback on the Prime Minister's National Day Rally.

SM Goh did not give details on getting PRs to take up citizenship.

"Moving forward, we are going to approach some of them to take up Singapore citizenship, if they don't then their PR will not be renewed. That's a better way.

"We now have quite a few PRs, 500,000 in Singapore, so hopefully maybe 50,000 can be selected to become Singapore citizens, the rest can be PRs, contributing to Singapore's economy," he said.

SM Goh was responding to a suggestion from a participant who said Employment Pass holders should take up citizenship which he believed will discourage foreign talents from working in Singapore.

Besides, SM Goh pointed out that Employment Pass holders serve as buffers where their numbers can be reduced during a downturn.

Another radical suggestion put forward was to bar foreigners from buying private property but SM Goh noted developers would just build more high-rise private apartments to counter it.

"At the moment, our policy will be, condominium, private sector. They want to buy, let them buy because they actually bring in money for Singapore. They may not actually stay there but they bring in money.

"They buy from locals, locals are happy to get the money but it's not actually adding to space. In fact, that's actually ideal. They buy here, they don't drive cars, they don't live here, we just get their money! They're buying air!" laughed SM Goh.

Separately, SM Goh revealed it will cost S$1 billion to upgrade the train signalling system to increase capacity and reduce the waiting time for commuters.

He said problems can be resolved rationally but noted that for every solution, there are consequences.

Citing overcrowding in trains, SM Goh said the problem is expected and can be addressed.

In this case, resources have to be put in place to upgrade the system.

The cost may not be passed down to commuters directly, but SM Goh pointed out that it has to be defrayed.

Similarly, there are consequences with measures introduced in the property sector.

SM Goh acknowledged the situation has resulted in many unhappy Singaporeans, and he sought to put things in perspective.

"Those who missed out, those who can't buy this, who can't upgrade and so on, so we are really feeling the unhappiness, question is was the policy good?

"Unhappiness, those who are happier, in total there's net happiness, there's no such thing called total happiness, don't believe in it. It's whether we create net happiness in all this," said SM Goh.

He added it is "very difficult to satisfy everybody" and in politics, trying to make everybody happy is "impossible".

They key, said SM Goh is to "make the most number of people happy, the most number of times".

Another idea worth considering in managing transport woes is to have a "zero vehicular traffic growth".

"Let the COE take care of the number for cars on the road so when the number of cars cannot grow when the COE is so high then the roads will be freer so it's a combination of high COEs and low ERP.

"But we have opted in the last 10 years or so to give Singaporeans the 4 wheels so we have opted for 3% growth in vehicle population and therefore use ERP to tweak it because one can argue that's fairer." he said.

The question is to decide which is the best way forward, said the Senior Minister.

He also answered questions on why the $9,000 award to recognise the contributions of NSmen is not extended to all who have served the country.

SM Goh said authorities can consider giving older Singaporeans a token for their contributions.

"I think the old days, the financial sacrifices were much more because you were paid just a nominal sum but there were other benefits. If you were born earlier, maybe you bought your HDB flat cheaper! So you cannot argue.

"Your point is whether we can recognise in some way, token well I think we take note so that in future, they can remember the older ones, just a token, maybe past 55, help them with their medical top ups, I think that's possible. It's a suggestion we will take note."

SM Goh was relaxed and candid in his answers. At several points, he threw questions back, seeking a consensus on issues.

His message - that Singapore's problems can be resolved rationally, no matter how complex, with a good dose of the Singapore Spirit. - CNA/fa

cl0ver
07-09-10, 10:02
i think its politically incorrect to force citizenships on people.

cashrich
07-09-10, 10:06
i think its politically incorrect to force citizenships on people.

selective lah..

the super rich pr, left alone

the not so rich pr, ask to convert and soak up the hdb

the middle ones, shift them to buy EC, after 5 years can sell EC and buy private. Their kids can buy HDB.

peterng8
07-09-10, 10:27
i think its politically incorrect to force citizenships on people.


i think is it is overall not right to offer hdb to people who are not committed to be citizen...:2cents: :2cents:

garmen right move i like it, i would love it if they can only allow citizen to buy HDB, PR allow only to buy pte and rent...alternatively, limit their transaction on HDB and impose tax on HDB property sale if they are allow to buy HDB...

this will keep hdb price in check and pte pty price up trend , rental uptrend, mass singaporeans who want to own hdb will be happy, pte pty owners will also be happy...when singpaoreans happy, pay and pay will be happy ad not worried about thier own friendly challenger from PP...:2cents: :D

cl0ver
07-09-10, 11:26
but aren't the people on the stree already not happy with immigrants taking up citizenship and competing with local born for public housing?

Regulators
07-09-10, 11:58
i think the govt should give citizenship to PRs on a merit basis since we are a meritocratic society. We can start by only accepting graduate PRs with a degree or PRs without degrees by with net worth of at least US$1 million to become citizens. Our country is so small and yet we are opening doors to the whole world and govt is blaming speculators for runaway pty prices. If we really want to have PRs converted to citizens here, we need to be selective of the better ones and not any chapalang PRC who have their kids studying in a school here

peterng8
07-09-10, 12:37
but aren't the people on the stree already not happy with immigrants taking up citizenship and competing with local born for public housing?


usng the analogy, my thought is the qty of the overall HDB flats is the same at this moment assuming...original number of HDB hunters is X+Y(where Y is singaporean) , now with X minus (not converted to citizen) = converted citizen(let call it Y1), if only ciztizens allow to buy, now the number will be Y1 + Y definitely will be << X+Y

so more HDB choices..so those not covnerted to citizen are additional customers that are only allowed to buy private and rental...pte pty and rental up... :D swee swee, OMG (oh my God)pls implement it if you hear my prayer(read the forum here) ...it is for benefit of all singaporeans...:D :D :2cents:

valkri
07-09-10, 13:53
OMG (oh my God)pls implement it if you hear my prayer(read the forum here) ...it is for benefit of all singaporeans...:D :D :2cents:

Well I know our leaders are worshipped by some, but this .... :D:D;)

cashrich
07-09-10, 14:00
usng the analogy, my thought is the qty of the overall HDB flats is the same at this moment assuming...original number of HDB hunters is X+Y(where Y is singaporean) , now with X minus (not converted to citizen) = converted citizen(let call it Y1), if only ciztizens allow to buy, now the number will be Y1 + Y definitely will be << X+Y

so more HDB choices..so those not covnerted to citizen are additional customers that are only allowed to buy private and rental...pte pty and rental up... :D swee swee, OMG (oh my God)pls implement it if you hear my prayer(read the forum here) ...it is for benefit of all singaporeans...:D :D :2cents:


Original situation

1. Private = PR + SC + Foreign
2. New HDB = SC or [SC + PR]
3. Resale HDB = SC + PR

New Situation

1. Private = PR + SC + Foreign + New SC + New PR
2. New HDB = SC or [SC + PR] + New SC + [New SC + PR] + [New SC + New PR]
3. Resale HDB = SC + PR + New SC + New PR + [New SC + New SC] + [New SC + New PR] + [New PR + New PR]

More population is better. New is better right?

The impact will be

1. PR and new PR = convert to new SC = more demand for HDB and EC
2. New PR = more demand for EC and private
3. PR buying HDB to PR buying private
4. New SC buying New HDB.

The concept of switching class and swapping segment.

valkri
07-09-10, 14:00
SM Goh did not give details on getting PRs to take up citizenship.

"Moving forward, we are going to approach some of them to take up Singapore citizenship, if they don't then their PR will not be renewed. That's a better way.

"We now have quite a few PRs, 500,000 in Singapore, so hopefully maybe 50,000 can be selected to become Singapore citizens, the rest can be PRs, contributing to Singapore's economy," he said.

SM Goh was responding to a suggestion from a participant who said Employment Pass holders should take up citizenship which he believed will discourage foreign talents from working in Singapore.


Well what is the thought behind this policy? Assuming only the "better" PRs will be offered citizenship, is the gov prepared to force out the "better" PR and keep only the lesser ones as a result of this "offer"?

cashrich
07-09-10, 14:04
Well what is the thought behind this policy? Assuming only the "better" PRs will be offered citizenship, is the gov prepared to force out the "better" PR and keep only the lesser ones as a result of this "offer"?

I would think it is answered above.

Just add water... more and more water will raise the boat higher and higher. No need rocket science.

peterng8
07-09-10, 14:37
Original situation

1. Private = PR + SC + Foreign
2. New HDB = SC or [SC + PR]
3. Resale HDB = SC + PR

New Situation

1. Private = PR + SC + Foreign + New SC + New PR
2. New HDB = SC or [SC + PR] + New SC + [New SC + PR] + [New SC + New PR]
3. Resale HDB = SC + PR + New SC + New PR + [New SC + New SC] + [New SC + New PR] + [New PR + New PR]

More population is better. New is better right?

The impact will be

1. PR and new PR = convert to new SC = more demand for HDB and EC
2. New PR = more demand for EC and private
3. PR buying HDB to PR buying private
4. New SC buying New HDB.

The concept of switching class and swapping segment.

oh...in this way..the PR joins singapore for 5 years first and ask the choice to be converted to citizen(must support SM Goh ma), if they want can buy HDB, than if they dont want...continue to rent or continue to given a choice to buy pte pty lo..so lai that buay confuse ma...:D :D in the meantime, pte pty continue to be high, rental to be good...so bo bian LL must become citizen..so HDB price can be controlled to raise gradually and also buy time for more new HDB to be built...

xebay11
07-09-10, 17:27
What ever it is, I hope they invite (force) more Male PRs to become citizens, I believe we have too many female PR to citizen converts already.

cashrich
07-09-10, 17:40
Easy, get those doing ns now to convert after ns.

Very easy to get them as they need to study thereafter and if they don't convert, have to pay PR school fee or lose their seats in school. If no need to study, take away their PR status as useless to Singapore.

They will convert.

jasonyap
07-09-10, 18:29
i think is it is overall not right to offer hdb to people who are not committed to be citizen...:2cents: :2cents:

garmen right move i like it, i would love it if they can only allow citizen to buy HDB, PR allow only to buy pte and rent...alternatively, limit their transaction on HDB and impose tax on HDB property sale if they are allow to buy HDB...

this will keep hdb price in check and pte pty price up trend , rental uptrend, mass singaporeans who want to own hdb will be happy, pte pty owners will also be happy...when singpaoreans happy, pay and pay will be happy ad not worried about thier own friendly challenger from PP...:2cents: :D

u sound like a loser under government policy...

peterng8
07-09-10, 19:02
u sound like a loser under government policy...


depend on how you look at it lo....but with the new ruling of property... very hard to find winner except FT(how to check if decalre no property overseas)when buy hdb.....he he :D :D

august
07-09-10, 20:49
i think its politically incorrect to force citizenships on people.

they shld be happy that they qualify to be citizens lol ~
whether they decide to take up citizenship or not is still up to them, where got force?

peterng8
07-09-10, 20:53
Well what is the thought behind this policy? Assuming only the "better" PRs will be offered citizenship, is the gov prepared to force out the "better" PR and keep only the lesser ones as a result of this "offer"?

i think there will be many incentives to support this...we can bet on this...garmen very smart one...maybe reduce those incentives under present PR policy and make them juicier to those who they will propose to be citizen...just wait and see...maybe HDB ownership is one of the incentives as mentioned, HDB unit is a sure profitable assest in this land scarce country...so small 5 million..and keep on increasing in near future if economy becomes better..

dmonddd
07-09-10, 21:22
left turn cannot

right turn cannot

how? go straight also cannot

if like tat die lor...the car (Singapore) will not move...and remain stagnant

grow up everyone and face the challenges..

peterng8
07-09-10, 22:37
left turn cannot

right turn cannot

how? go straight also cannot

if like tat die lor...the car (Singapore) will not move...and remain stagnant

grow up everyone and face the challenges..


he he alot of them already grown up...some of them old enough to become ah gong liao...:D :D

cl0ver
07-09-10, 23:03
they shld be happy that they qualify to be citizens lol ~
whether they decide to take up citizenship or not is still up to them, where got force?

not all foreigners want to give up their own nationality.
imagine angmoh earning a lot and paying local tax, if PR withdrawn because he/she refuse to give up his own nationality, then they revert to employment pass and no longer get local tax benefits....
then all these foreign talent run to HK.... so Singapore lose out rite?
left with blue collar PRs..

Komo
07-09-10, 23:07
it will be interesting if garmen allow dual citizenship.
but this will be like moving back to square one?
singaporean still lose out?

jlrx
07-09-10, 23:38
"At the moment, our policy will be, condominium, private sector. They want to buy, let them buy because they actually bring in money for Singapore. They may not actually stay there but they bring in money.

"They buy from locals, locals are happy to get the money but it's not actually adding to space. In fact, that's actually ideal. They buy here, they don't drive cars, they don't live here, we just get their money! They're buying air!" laughed SM Goh.

PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air.

Komo
08-09-10, 00:00
chances are they will sell back the air to local....

maisonjai
08-09-10, 00:01
it will be interesting if garmen allow dual citizenship.


oops...ur wish may come true.

august
08-09-10, 00:20
not all foreigners want to give up their own nationality.
imagine angmoh earning a lot and paying local tax, if PR withdrawn because he/she refuse to give up his own nationality, then they revert to employment pass and no longer get local tax benefits....
then all these foreign talent run to HK.... so Singapore lose out rite?
left with blue collar PRs..

i will be hesitant to use the word 'talent' so loosely
the pap govt uses it to fulfill a political motive, in reality these 'talents' are just workers, no more no less

in the long run Spore does not need and wont benefit from these fair weather types. :cool:

dmonddd
08-09-10, 01:52
he he alot of them already grown up...some of them old enough to become ah gong liao...:D :D
Ahh u r right. The message is targeted at those uncles aunties ah gongs and popos who hv been here many many years.

proud owner
08-09-10, 01:57
Ahh u r right. The message is targeted at those uncles aunties ah gongs and popos who hv been here many many years.

hahaha

we need more people at the national day parade swear in ?

peterng8
08-09-10, 09:35
not all foreigners want to give up their own nationality.
imagine angmoh earning a lot and paying local tax, if PR withdrawn because he/she refuse to give up his own nationality, then they revert to employment pass and no longer get local tax benefits....
then all these foreign talent run to HK.... so Singapore lose out rite?
left with blue collar PRs..

singapore wont lose out one...singapore opportunities and sweeteners to FT are too great to resist...alot of FT are trying to come in as worldwide job recovery is not fully restored...so this is right moment to implement whatever need to implement to FT...:D

peterng8
08-09-10, 09:42
it will be interesting if garmen allow dual citizenship.
but this will be like moving back to square one?
singaporean still lose out?


dual citizenship..ha ha what an idea??IF I am FT, again for my own benefit, I will suggest this...enjoy both worlds(like got one legal wife(own country) and a mistress(host countyr, ie singapore), can enjoy both sides, song song, if singapore implement dual citizenship, a lot of singaporeans will show their disapproval during th big ticket day...

dual citizenship will have far more impact and ramifications , singaporeans can give up already? why ? think about it...every privileges singaporeans have are now shared by FTs( who are dual citizenship), this is even worse than the current property rule now...:D the singaporean who think of this ougth to be ""saluted"" by rifle team...

peterng8
08-09-10, 09:43
chances are they will sell back the air to local....

why not? you are right, if dual citizenship takes place...:D :D

proud owner
08-09-10, 11:38
dual citizenship..ha ha what an idea??IF I am FT, again for my own benefit, I will suggest this...enjoy both worlds(like got one legal wife(own country) and a mistress(host countyr, ie singapore), can enjoy both sides, song song, if singapore implement dual citizenship, a lot of singaporeans will show their disapproval during th big ticket day...

dual citizenship will have far more impact and ramifications , singaporeans can give up already? why ? think about it...every privileges singaporeans have are now shared by FTs( who are dual citizenship), this is even worse than the current property rule now...:D the singaporean who think of this ougth to be ""saluted"" by rifle team...


if dual citizenship is allowed

then sporean can also take up citizenship in another country right ?
say Thailand ..cheap and good

fly between spore and thailand by budget air ..sometimes ticket only $1

august
08-09-10, 12:17
if dual citizenship is allowed

then sporean can also take up citizenship in another country right ?
say Thailand ..cheap and good

fly between spore and thailand by budget air ..sometimes ticket only $1


dual will also allow "withdrawal" of CPF funds hehe

peterng8
08-09-10, 13:21
if dual citizenship is allowed

then sporean can also take up citizenship in another country right ?
say Thailand ..cheap and good

fly between spore and thailand by budget air ..sometimes ticket only $1


I think it is import only...one way...:D:D not export ..export I think alot of problem liao...any way dual citizenship is a joke..garmen this time really scared for the big day...:2cents: :D

peterng8
08-09-10, 13:25
dual will also allow "withdrawal" of CPF funds hehe


think further is dual citizenship(for those elite FT) only, so they can buy HDB and own property at their own country at the same time....than those normal PRs will not be able to do that or cannot own HDB if not citizen in the future...who know that direction may be possible....:D

cashrich
09-09-10, 12:30
U turn.. we cannot force them, we welcome them.

If you force them, they will run to Hong Kong and we will suffer.

PR means Please Reserve (a unit or more) here.

peterng8
09-09-10, 14:14
U turn.. we cannot force them, we welcome them.

If you force them, they will run to Hong Kong and we will suffer.

PR means Please Reserve (a unit or more) here.

ha ha...should also ask the garmen to release info on out of 500,000 PRs, how many have HDB? and how how many have prvate property at home?


will be surprised man...who cause the price to go up?:D

proud owner
09-09-10, 22:05
ha ha...should also ask the garmen to release info on out of 500,000 PRs, how many have HDB? and how how many have prvate property at home?


will be surprised man...who cause the price to go up?:D

they know lah ..

why you think they made such changes ?

and they wont announced one lah .. scared sporeans FK THEM

cl0ver
13-09-10, 11:17
its probably done when they did the population concensus....
wonder how many told the truth?

heard most ppl in china lied in the concensus... :rolleyes:

peterng8
13-09-10, 12:41
they know lah ..

why you think they made such changes ?

and they wont announced one lah .. scared sporeans FK THEM

Singaporean already FKed thru back door...:D :D

peterng8
13-09-10, 12:46
its probably done when they did the population concensus....
wonder how many told the truth?

heard most ppl in china lied in the concensus... :rolleyes:

is it ha ha? 32B say 34C huh?:D