Do you like your property value to goes up while you have no plan to move.....

Was discussing about property tax while having lunch today with a few colleagues of mine who stay in private condo and most of them own only 1 property and they do not expect to move in near term.

Apparently, most of them received their property revalued upward by IRA around Feb/Mar, right after garment announced this year budget.

Conclusion by this group of kakis: With property price at all time high and coupled with high rental market thus resulting in hiking in property tax, it seem like counter-benefit to those own-stay private condo owners now unless they exit private condo and downgrade to HDB.

What your take on this?

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Originally Posted by westman

Was discussing about property tax while having lunch today with a few colleagues of mine who stay in private condo and most of them own only 1 property and they do not expect to move in near term.

Apparently, most of them received their property revalued upward by IRA around Feb/Mar, right after garment announced this year budget.

Conclusion by this group of kakis: With property price at all time high and coupled with high rental market thus resulting in hiking in property tax, it seem like counter-benefit to those own-stay private condo owners now unless they exit private condo and downgrade to HDB.

What your take on this?

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IMO, own stay concession rate (which you need to apply for) is still reasonable unless the value of your properties is worth hell lot of money.

whatever it is... longterm stay or shortterm stay.....
your owned property price go up, feel shiok mah....
everyone remain happy, yes ?

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Originally Posted by westman

Was discussing about property tax while having lunch today with a few colleagues of mine who stay in private condo and most of them own only 1 property and they do not expect to move in near term.

Apparently, most of them received their property revalued upward by IRA around Feb/Mar, right after garment announced this year budget.

Conclusion by this group of kakis: With property price at all time high and coupled with high rental market thus resulting in hiking in property tax, it seem like counter-benefit to those own-stay private condo owners now unless they exit private condo and downgrade to HDB.

What your take on this?

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yes, our valuation has been raised by more than 10%.

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Originally Posted by stalingrad

yes, our valuation has been raised by more than 10%.

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likewise property tax...
If no plan to move, price up also no use... later kena price correction, everything back to square yet we have already paid up those taxes... :banghead: :banghead:

Unless profit take else value high means nothing.... agree?

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Originally Posted by iwantgizmos

whatever it is... longterm stay or shortterm stay.....
your owned property price go up, feel shiok mah....
everyone remain happy, yes ?

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Feeling shiok and need not to pay more tax, ok.
Feeling shiok but need to pay more tax, KNN.... where got shiok...
:D :D

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Originally Posted by Jadey

IMO, own stay concession rate (which you need to apply for) is still reasonable unless the value of your properties is worth hell lot of money.

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Agree with you that concession rate still reasonable. However, the fundamental issue here is: you are not moving and how do you feel about paying more tax given current market condition and worst, you are not cashing out... It seem like we have LL accept... :mad:

So when calculating rental yield, include property tax, rental income tax, agent fee and maintenance fee to ensure that you are taking note of what you are paying for. :D No exact figure but an estimate is also a better feel of your rental yield than not including those figures.

If you need to, the property can be revalued and refinanced with some cash returns

I know some people who did that so as to monetise the price appreciation and used the cash to finance kids overseas education. Cheaper and easier than to apply for a personal loan or study loan.

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Originally Posted by ysyap

So when calculating rental yield, include property tax, rental income tax, agent fee and maintenance fee to ensure that you are taking note of what you are paying for. :D No exact figure but an estimate is also a better feel of your rental yield than not including those figures.

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Bro, I've no problem to pay more property tax if rental or resales value going north. Problem is: it's for own stay and u are not moving and yet property price n rental market keep going up thus resulting an increase in property tax , how?

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Originally Posted by howgozit

If you need to, the property can be revalued and refinanced with some cash returns

I know some people who did that so as to monetise the price appreciation and used the cash to finance kids overseas education. Cheaper and easier than to apply for a personal loan or study loan.

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Good point.

First advantage: unlock value appreciation via refinancing.

Any more input?

Do you like your property value to goes up while you have no plan to move.....
Yes, shiok mah, big asset value and growing! Furthermore, if need to downgrade also can have cash back to use as retirement fund.
Also, make the young work harder for their own assets!
But: Need govt to abolish property tax altogether. Why should we pay govt property tax for property sitting on our freehold land and we don't derive any profit? :banghead:
If they impose property tax for leasehold land still make sense right? :beats-me-man:

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Originally Posted by westman

Was discussing about property tax while having lunch today with a few colleagues of mine who stay in private condo and most of them own only 1 property and they do not expect to move in near term.

Apparently, most of them received their property revalued upward by IRA around Feb/Mar, right after garment announced this year budget.

Conclusion by this group of kakis: With property price at all time high and coupled with high rental market thus resulting in hiking in property tax, it seem like counter-benefit to those own-stay private condo owners now unless they exit private condo and downgrade to HDB.

What your take on this?

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happy problem
sum involved is not substantial

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Originally Posted by westman

Bro, I've no problem to pay more property tax if rental or resales value going north. Problem is: it's for own stay and u are not moving and yet property price n rental market keep going up thus resulting an increase in property tax , how?

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I think one can not have the cake and eat it too. Price hike provides a potential to downgrade favourably or relocate should one needs money in future. If you don't foresee any money problem, a slight property tax hike is not that unbearable. So I opt for price-hike despite having to pay more property tax. Cheers!

Considering it's own stay - I would not want any (upward) revision and want to pay a minimum of Prop Tax.
No (tangible) joy in knowing your only roof is worth $1 or $1million since you won't be extracting the value.

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Originally Posted by koiben

I think one can not have the cake and eat it too. Price hike provides a potential to downgrade favourably or relocate should one needs money in future. If you don't foresee any money problem, a slight property tax hike is not that unbearable. So I opt for price-hike despite having to pay more property tax. Cheers!

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But if it's for own stay and you have no plan moving say 10 years be it upgrade or downgrade... Price up (Feeling richer only) or rental up (none of my business since it's for own stay) also no use, right? :2cents:

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Originally Posted by westman

But if it's for own stay and you have no plan moving say 10 years be it upgrade or downgrade... Price up (Feeling richer only) or rental up (none of my business since it's for own stay) also no use, right? :2cents:

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Anyone who just bought property and really hope for crash so that pay less property tax? :D

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Originally Posted by westman

But if it's for own stay and you have no plan moving say 10 years be it upgrade or downgrade... Price up (Feeling richer only) or rental up (none of my business since it's for own stay) also no use, right? :2cents:

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I think in order to appreciate the situation better, you have to look at the reverse situation ie. what if your property devalues?

Property tax? At 4% of the annual value, that would be the least of my problems.

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Originally Posted by howgozit

I think in order towever appreciate the situation better, you have to look at the reverse situation ie. what if your property devalues?

Property tax? At 4% of the annual value, that would be the least of my problems.

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Agree with u on this and that how I told my kakis too.
However, most kakis from this group are either near or past the magic 50 are looking are evaluate optiona when they reach 55. Assuming if they stop working by then, 4% annual value might means alot to them. At the end, most of them conclude that IF only have one private condo, the best choice for them would be to downgrade to HDB for the following reasons:

1) Save $ on property tax ($1000 assuming it's OCR)
2) reduce expense on quarterly fees for condo ($4000???)
3) when comes to yearly national budget day, HDB folks enjoy more benefits than private condo owners.

Is that how we retired in Singapore IF we have ONLY one property?

I recalled this forum letter published some time back

Property tax raised twice in a year

IN SEPTEMBER last year, the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (Iras) revised the annual value of our property and barely half a year later, it has once again revalued it upwards.

Is it fair for the Government to increase property tax twice within a year, especially when many people are struggling to make ends meet in the face of rising cost of living?

The pain is all the more unbearable for people who are retired and living on their savings.

This latest upward revision of the annual value of our property is all the more incomprehensible when recent press reports revealed that some newly launched developments are seeing a slide in prices.

Tan Wenfa

Source: Straits Times

mmm...if market rental demand > supply, then whole Sg AV goes up then those with only 1 ppty have to top up ppty tax for ? :D

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Originally Posted by maisonjai

I recalled this forum letter published some time back

mmm...if market rental demand > supply, then whole Sg AV goes up then those with only 1 ppty have to top up ppty tax for ? :D

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Precisely and that why my kakis complaint Like hell! :banghead:

tell ur kakis that this is a form of "protection fee", protect ur ppty value..that could ease some pain..:cheers6:

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Originally Posted by teddybear

But: Need govt to abolish property tax altogether. Why should we pay govt property tax for property sitting on our freehold land and we don't derive any profit? :banghead:
If they impose property tax for leasehold land still make sense right? :beats-me-man:

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From the very beginning, I'm still trying to understand the need for property tax when govt already collects so much money from buyer's stamp duty fee and now plus seller's SD? From that one piece of land which is either leased to the owners for 99yrs or its FH, govt still happily collect so much duty fee and property tax? Its betw seller and buyer in any transaction and govt is not even required to work for the fee they are receiving (correct me if I'm mistaken). Mostly done by lawyers?

Like driving a car, we pay road tax but on top of that, still have to pay COE to govt first??? :confused:

if my prop value goes up and then i wanna upgrade, the cost of my new property is much higher than if prop value remains stable (cos rate of increase higher generally for more expensive properties)...

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Originally Posted by ysyap

From that one piece of land which is either leased to the owners for 99yrs or its FH, govt still happily collect so much duty fee and property tax?
Like driving a car, we pay road tax but on top of that, still have to pay COE to govt first??? :confused:

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HDB dwellers paying Air Tax, that pocket of air value fluctuares depending on Sg economy. :o

Why you want to upgrade to more expensive properties unless you have a lot more money? If a lot more money growing faster than property price, than why you worry property price going higher? To quote an analogy, you want 3 meals at celebrity restaurants, mid-level restaurants, food courts, coffee shops or hawker centre? Just like GCBs, luxury & prime condos, RCR condos, OCR condos, HDB flats, That is your choice, a want & not a need. :cheers1:

By the way, by virtue of economic theory, inflation, and the benefits of having mild inflation rather than deflation, property prices will always go up in the long-run in line with inflation! :cheers6:

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Originally Posted by mantrix

if my prop value goes up and then i wanna upgrade, the cost of my new property is much higher than if prop value remains stable (cos rate of increase higher generally for more expensive properties)...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by teddybear

Why you want to upgrade to more expensive properties unless you have a lot more money? If a lot more money growing faster than property price, than why you worry property price going higher? To quote an analogy, you want 3 meals at celebrity restaurants, mid-level restaurants, food courts, coffee shops or hawker centre? Just like GCBs, luxury & prime condos, RCR condos, OCR condos, HDB flats, That is your choice, a want & not a need. :cheers1:

By the way, by virtue of economic theory, inflation, and the benefits of having mild inflation rather than deflation, property prices will always go up in the long-run in line with inflation! :cheers6:

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Agree.

Upgrade in down market, downgrade in upmarket not the other way around. If you do that in enough cycles, you may end up literally staying for free.

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Originally Posted by maisonjai

I recalled this forum letter published some time back

Property tax raised twice in a year

IN SEPTEMBER last year, the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (Iras) revised the annual value of our property and barely half a year later, it has once again revalued it upwards.

Is it fair for the Government to increase property tax twice within a year, especially when many people are struggling to make ends meet in the face of rising cost of living?

The pain is all the more unbearable for people who are retired and living on their savings.

This latest upward revision of the annual value of our property is all the more incomprehensible when recent press reports revealed that some newly launched developments are seeing a slide in prices.

Tan Wenfa

Source: Straits Times

mmm...if market rental demand > supply, then whole Sg AV goes up then those with only 1 ppty have to top up ppty tax for ? :D

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Right, not everybody who stayed in a pte condo or apartment are rich. It could be that they have used up all their life saving to purchase the pte ppty for investment purpose so that when they retire, at least they still have a ppty to collect rental to support their daily life unless our country is like USA, don't need to work, still have money to take. So increasing of the ppty tax will add another burden to this group of people.

A lots of peoples seems to overlook this point, they think that since you can afford to stay in a pte ppty means that you are rich and that's why lots of rebates only given to those who stayed in HDB (eg water & electricity). Just like this year additional medisave, I think it was based on the yearly income. Actually, they should look at our MONTHLY INCOME and NOT YEARLY INCOME because yearly income includes bonus, commission, allowances, overtime etc which are all depends on the company & personal performance for that year.

Medication is very important in our life, once a person is seriously ill and need to be hospitalised, his performance will definitely drop, worst still, he might even lost his job, so is it that this person has to sell off his pte properties and used up all his money before he can get subsidy from the govt. I heard that staying in which class of ward will depends on your house, if you stay in a pte ppty, you cannot stay in Class C, is it true? We always tell ourselves, can die but cannot fall sick because medication is so expensive. :tsk-tsk:

I have known someone who stayed in a 3 room HDB flat in central, then shifted to a 5 room HDB flat (central also), recently, she wants to upgrade, so she shifted to a $2m apartment just because she said she is so used to staying in the central. AND her family has 2 cars, one BMW and the other is Toyota xxx. So what does this tells? :D

She strikes the TOTO recently? ;) Just joking. Rich people can stay anyhere and own small car too. They use the spare cash to invest in properties.

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Originally Posted by irisng

Right, not everybody who stayed in a pte condo or apartment are rich. It could be that they have used up all their life saving to purchase the pte ppty for investment purpose so that when they retire, at least they still have a ppty to collect rental to support their daily life unless our country is like USA, don't need to work, still have money to take. So increasing of the ppty tax will add another burden to this group of people.

A lots of peoples seems to overlook this point, they think that since you can afford to stay in a pte ppty means that you are rich and that's why lots of rebates only given to those who stayed in HDB (eg water & electricity). Just like this year additional medisave, I think it was based on the yearly income. Actually, they should look at our MONTHLY INCOME and NOT YEARLY INCOME because yearly income includes bonus, commission, allowances, overtime etc which are all depends on the company & personal performance for that year.

Medication is very important in our life, once a person is seriously ill and need to be hospitalised, his performance will definitely drop, worst still, he might even lost his job, so is it that this person has to sell off his pte properties and used up all his money before he can get subsidy from the govt. I heard that staying in which class of ward will depends on your house, if you stay in a pte ppty, you cannot stay in Class C, is it true? We always tell ourselves, can die but cannot fall sick because medication is so expensive. :tsk-tsk:

I have known someone who stayed in a 3 room HDB flat in central, then shifted to a 5 room HDB flat (central also), recently, she wants to upgrade, so she shifted to a $2m apartment just because she said she is so used to staying in the central. AND her family has 2 cars, one BMW and the other is Toyota xxx. So what does this tells? :D

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Originally Posted by irisng

Right, not everybody who stayed in a pte condo or apartment are rich. It could be that they have used up all their life saving to purchase the pte ppty for investment purpose so that when they retire, at least they still have a ppty to collect rental to support their daily life unless our country is like USA, don't need to work, still have money to take. So increasing of the ppty tax will add another burden to this group of people.

:D

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Paying property tax is part and parcel of buying a private property. If you you even dare to call it an investment, please work out the costs involved includung the property tax otherwise don't call it an investment.

As for people who used up all their life savings to buy private property and then cannot afford to pay property tax later, can't say I feel sorry for them. They have to reflect if that was a clever thing to do.