Gold limit

[coolview]

hi, there is a gold limit we can use in the CPF. Anyone knows what gold investment instruments can be use with this gold limit?

[gfoo]

its in your cpfonline

dun bother with paper gold

buy physical or take delivery of lbma bars in a bonded wh

[taggy]

its in your cpfonline

dun bother with paper gold

buy physical or take delivery of lbma bars in a bonded wh

need to pay gst

[gfoo]

need to pay gst

pay lor.... to me it's like: "thank you dearest government for allowing me to take resources out of the monetary system - here, take my 7% and go wipe your arses with paper currency"

lbma take delivery in bonded warehouse otherwise. SMX now also allow delivery

[richwang]

hi, there is a gold limit we can use in the CPF. Anyone knows what gold investment instruments can be use with this gold limit?

There is a 10% limit for your CPF OA to invest in "gold". You cannot take physical gold home. So mainly Gold ETF and UOB Gold Savings account. But, Gold ETF is quoted in USD, so when USD drops, your net gain is limited; and the charges for Gold Savings Account is a lot if you only buy small amount: An administrative fee (in grams of gold) 0.12 gm per month or 0.25% p.a. on the highest balance per month, whichever is higher. The fee is subjected to GST, which will be deducted from your account in grams of gold also. An administrative charge of $30 for the closure of the account within 6 months. The fee is subjected to GST.
http://www.uob.com.sg/personal/inves...us_metals.html

The biggest question is do you really want to invest your retirement savings in gold? You cannot eat it, no dividend, no regular payout. The only gain is captical gain - which is purely driven by supply and demand.
(and now retail investment demand and emerging market central banks).

If we can still remember the history of siliver, virtually the whole world's silver went to China because they used it as money during World Wars.

Imaging the whole West world (holding lots of gold by central banks) are pushing gold to historical high (some are talking USD 2000, USD 10,000 or whatever bubble price level), and then sell the gold to the East. They will be out of debt.

China central bank has clearly said they are not going to buy gold. So who is going to buy? Retailers - thus ETF.

http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/gold1980.html

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

I have no idea how big the bubble will eventually grow, and absolutely no idea when it will be burst. But luckily CPF puts a 10% limit!

Have fun!

Thanks,
Richard

[coolview]

There is a 10% limit for your CPF OA to invest in "gold". You cannot take physical gold home. So mainly Gold ETF and UOB Gold Savings account. But, Gold ETF is quoted in USD, so when USD drops, your net gain is limited; and the charges for Gold Savings Account is a lot if you only buy small amount: An administrative fee (in grams of gold) 0.12 gm per month or 0.25% p.a. on the highest balance per month, whichever is higher. The fee is subjected to GST, which will be deducted from your account in grams of gold also. An administrative charge of $30 for the closure of the account within 6 months. The fee is subjected to GST.
http://www.uob.com.sg/personal/inves...us_metals.html

The biggest question is do you really want to invest your retirement savings in gold? You cannot eat it, no dividend, no regular payout. The only gain is captical gain - which is purely driven by supply and demand.
(and now retail investment demand and emerging market central banks).

If we can still remember the history of siliver, virtually the whole world's silver went to China because they used it as money during World Wars.

Imaging the whole West world (holding lots of gold by central banks) are pushing gold to historical high (some are talking USD 2000, USD 10,000 or whatever bubble price level), and then sell the gold to the East. They will be out of debt.

China central bank has clearly said they are not going to buy gold. So who is going to buy? Retailers - thus ETF.

http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/gold1980.html

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

I have no idea how big the bubble will eventually grow, and absolutely no idea when it will be burst. But luckily CPF puts a 10% limit!

Have fun!

Thanks,
Richard

Thanks, so the usage is rather limited. leave it in the CPF to earn 2.6% interest maybe more worthwhile.

[gfoo]

lol ... ...

[proud owner]

Thanks, so the usage is rather limited. leave it in the CPF to earn 2.6% interest maybe more worthwhile.

depends on your view on gold .. and how commodities will perform ..

i started buying gold when it was 323 usd per oz ..

told 10 friends why we should buy gold at that time ... sadly only 1 friend believed in me and bought ..

i sold off all at 1000 usd per oz ...

then it chiong some more ..

wait for retracement if any ..

i see gold going to 2000 usd / oz in the long term

[gfoo]

Thanks, so the usage is rather limited. leave it in the CPF to earn 2.6% interest maybe more worthwhile.

before you venture into gold and precious metals, you have to learn about how the monetary system works and the purpose of putting your money in gold.

Gold is NOT an investment. It is NOT a hedge. It is a store of wealth and value - at its very core, it is the ultimate money.

Go gold because you want to preserve the value of what you earn today, that it will be the same value tomorrow. Don't go into gold to make a profit.

100 years ago, a wardrobe (hat, finely tailored suit, trousers, and shoes) cost an ounce of gold, or about $35. Today, the same wardrobe still cost the same ounce of gold, or about $2000. The value of gold hasn't changed, but paper money has devalued via inflation significantly.

Note also how the monetary system works. Remember that every time you borrow or deposit $1 in a bank, the bank can pluck $9 out of thin air and lend it out - and on and on and on. This is fractional reserve banking. Ask yourself is this thing can perpetuate for long.

[gfoo]

Put it another way.

Today a 3bdrm condo costs about 500 oz of gold or $1m

in the 1990s, a 3 bdrm condo also cost 500oz of gold, or $350k

in the 1970s, a 3 bdrm condo again 500oz of gold, or $72k

[amk]

The biggest question is do you really want to invest your retirement savings in gold? You cannot eat it, no dividend, no regular payout. The only gain is captical gain - which is purely driven by supply and demand.

Just saw ur post. Interesting to see some one sharing the same view.

My view of gold, is this, quoting a Reuter's article:

"Billionaire financier George Soros, echoing comments from investment guru Warren Buffett, last month described gold as the 'ultimate bubble' because it is costly to dig up and has no real value except its market price."

[gwlip]

Just saw ur post. Interesting to see some one sharing the same view.

My view of gold, is this, quoting a Reuter's article:

"Billionaire financier George Soros, echoing comments from investment guru Warren Buffett, last month described gold as the 'ultimate bubble' because it is costly to dig up and has no real value except its market price."

And he more than doubled his investment in gold after that comment...

[richwang]

And he more than doubled his investment in gold after that comment...

Soros is a "short baised" guy. When he builds up a position, it is mainly to sell and drive down the price in spot market when he needs it. He will very likely to take a huge "short" postion in the derivative market, and use the spot market to drive down price.

He did this during financial crisis. The moment you saw Soros's name as Lehman holder, you would know what will happen to Lehman price later.

Let's see whether the same will happen to gold.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is there a way to find out who is the owner for Gold Futures "short" positions?

[gwlip]

Soros is a "short baised" guy. When he builds up a position, it is mainly to sell and drive down the price in spot market when he needs it. He will very likely to take a huge "short" postion in the derivative market, and use the spot market to drive down price.

He did this during financial crisis. The moment you saw Soros's name as Lehman holder, you would know what will happen to Lehman price later.

Let's see whether the same will happen to gold.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is there a way to find out who is the owner for Gold Futures "short" positions?

Wa so you are expecting gold prices to crash?

[gfoo]

Super Rich Buy Gold By The Ton - Reuters
Oct-5:GENEVA - THE world's wealthiest people have responded to economic worries by buying gold by the bar - and sometimes by the ton - and by moving assets out of the financial system, bankers catering to the very rich said on Monday. Fears of a double-dip downturn have boosted the appetite for physical bullion as well as for mining company shares and exchange-traded funds, UBS executive Josef Stadler told the Reuters Global Private Banking Summit.
'They don't only buy ETFs or futures; they buy physical gold,' said Mr Stadler, who runs the Swiss bank's services for clients with assets of at least US$50 million (S$65.7 million) to invest.
UBS is recommending top-tier clients hold 7-10 per cent of their assets in precious metals like gold, which is on course for its tenth consecutive yearly gain and traded at around US$1,314.50 an ounce on Monday, near the record level reached last week. 'We had a clear example of a couple buying over a ton of gold ... and carrying it to another place,' Mr Stadler said. At today's prices, that shipment would be worth about US$42 million.
Julius Baer's chief investment officer for Asia is also recommending that wealthy investors park some of their assets in gold as a defensive stance following a string of lacklustre US data and amid concerns about currency weakness. 'I see gold as an insurance,' Van Anantha-Nageswaran said.
Billionaire financier George Soros, echoing comments from investment guru Warren Buffett, last month described gold as the 'ultimate bubble' because it is costly to dig up and has no real value except its market price. -- REUTERS

[teddybear]

When Soros said gold got no value, is he shorting gold as well? But this guy has the POWER to make what he said come true!

Soros is a "short baised" guy. When he builds up a position, it is mainly to sell and drive down the price in spot market when he needs it. He will very likely to take a huge "short" postion in the derivative market, and use the spot market to drive down price.

He did this during financial crisis. The moment you saw Soros's name as Lehman holder, you would know what will happen to Lehman price later.

Let's see whether the same will happen to gold.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Is there a way to find out who is the owner for Gold Futures "short" positions?

[richwang]

Thanks for the info.
So those with US$50 million are also buying gold now. But if you ask the Private bank customers, how many of them were caught by Mini-bond, ELN, you will know they can loss money too. (ELN, Equity-linked-note, which gives you 5% "interest rate" ... or high quality stock like Citibank with a good discount of 10% - OOPS, who would knew it could furhter drop another 80%).

Gold is definetly money. But it is foriege exchange. You need to exchange it back to SGD (via USD) before you can buy your property. And exchange rate fluctuates. Gold will never drop to zero (because it is real money), but it has dropped from USD 800 to USD 200. Gold futures on CME for June 2016 contract is now trading at USD 1486. Who knows, when it reaches USD 2000 (or USD 10,000), it will then drop to USD 500 (or USD 3000). I guess we should be able to see that in our life time. No harm to put 7-10% of your discritional wealth to participant, but be prepared if it indeed loss you money.

Thanks,
Richard

[gfoo]

Dude i think you meant priority or preferred banking as these products are more for retail customers. Private banks don't offer such things.

Thanks for the info.
So those with US$50 million are also buying gold now. But if you ask the Private bank customers, how many of them were caught by Mini-bond, ELN, you will know they can loss money too. (ELN, Equity-linked-note, which gives you 5% "interest rate" ... or high quality stock like Citibank with a good discount of 10% - OOPS, who would knew it could furhter drop another 80%).

Gold is definetly money. But it is foriege exchange. You need to exchange it back to SGD (via USD) before you can buy your property. And exchange rate fluctuates. Gold will never drop to zero (because it is real money), but it has dropped from USD 800 to USD 200. Gold futures on CME for June 2016 contract is now trading at USD 1486. Who knows, when it reaches USD 2000 (or USD 10,000), it will then drop to USD 500 (or USD 3000). I guess we should be able to see that in our life time. No harm to put 7-10% of your discritional wealth to participant, but be prepared if it indeed loss you money.

Thanks,
Richard

[focus]

Dude i think you meant priority or preferred banking as these products are more for retail customers. Private banks don't offer such things.

Not exactly, private banks do offer ELNs, though the ELNs(tenure of 1 month to 1 year or more) I've been doing typically runs in the range of 12%-25% per annum. No one will pick up a 5% per annum ELN. That is CRAZY.... (I do the ELNs to keep the bankers "motivated".. but i prefer direct equities).

A 5% yield on Minibond is possible but again, the bankers will recommend you go for the direct bonds instead of those minibond type of "bonds".

But again .. the private banks also got difference...local ones got really some lousy bankers for entry level HNWs. 'Coz most of the good ones will gravitate to the foreign banks.

[vboy]

China does not need to buy only from the other central banks ...
They can buy domestically and not even alert anyone they are buying ...
They probably will declare they are not selling treasuries too, but they are!

This is how the hedgies work too ... they have the right not to disclose taking up big positions if they feel that it might preempt the market to profit from this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_mining_in_China

There is a 10% limit for your CPF OA to invest in "gold". You cannot take physical gold home. So mainly Gold ETF and UOB Gold Savings account. But, Gold ETF is quoted in USD, so when USD drops, your net gain is limited; and the charges for Gold Savings Account is a lot if you only buy small amount: An administrative fee (in grams of gold) 0.12 gm per month or 0.25% p.a. on the highest balance per month, whichever is higher. The fee is subjected to GST, which will be deducted from your account in grams of gold also. An administrative charge of $30 for the closure of the account within 6 months. The fee is subjected to GST.
http://www.uob.com.sg/personal/inves...us_metals.html

The biggest question is do you really want to invest your retirement savings in gold? You cannot eat it, no dividend, no regular payout. The only gain is captical gain - which is purely driven by supply and demand.
(and now retail investment demand and emerging market central banks).

If we can still remember the history of siliver, virtually the whole world's silver went to China because they used it as money during World Wars.

Imaging the whole West world (holding lots of gold by central banks) are pushing gold to historical high (some are talking USD 2000, USD 10,000 or whatever bubble price level), and then sell the gold to the East. They will be out of debt.

China central bank has clearly said they are not going to buy gold. So who is going to buy? Retailers - thus ETF.

http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/gold1980.html

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

I have no idea how big the bubble will eventually grow, and absolutely no idea when it will be burst. But luckily CPF puts a 10% limit!

Have fun!

Thanks,
Richard