2011 - OCR or CCR ?

[amk]

Was there really a lelong sale in Singapore after lemon brothers saga?

I dun know abt others but for me very hard to come by, even though I was aggressively looking (at some projects that I'm interested in).

[ay123]

Was there really a lelong sale in Singapore after lemon brothers saga?

during tat time carribean was only 950psf. now easily > 1500psf

[devilplate]

does people assume that they can get firesale? volume of transactions during downturn is very low.

Devilplate, when you spot firesale, do you OTP straightaway and look for financing later?

i even pay agt 1-2% to find firesales

[hopeful]

i even pay agt 1-2% to find firesales

did the agents succeed?

when you mention firesale like price drop 20-30%, do you mean price is below peak or price is 20-30% below valuation during downturn.

[devilplate]

did the agents succeed?

when you mention firesale like price drop 20-30%, do you mean price is below peak or price is 20-30% below valuation during downturn.

depends how u look at it....mostly drop by 30-40% den later rise 60-70%

[devilplate]

did the agents succeed?

when you mention firesale like price drop 20-30%, do you mean price is below peak or price is 20-30% below valuation during downturn.

u from indo...hard to u to find firesales....unless mabe u pay 2% comm for ur agt...entice them....

tat period i everyday diligently flip classifieds and internet,...i mean EVERYDAY

i missed quite a number of firesales tat period too...hesistate for one day....the next day GONE

tats how rich singaporeans is

[hopeful]

depends how u look at it....mostly drop by 30-40% den later rise 60-70%

if firesale mean valuation prices drop 30-40% from peak, then it is called market timing.

if firesale means prices is below 30-40% from valuation either in good times or bad times, then you are a lucky b*****d

if original price drop by 50%, then increase 100%, we are back to the original price

[devilplate]

if firesale mean valuation prices drop 30-40% from peak, then it is called market timing.

if firesale means prices is below 30-40% from valuation either in good times or bad times, then you are a lucky b*****d

if original price drop by 50%, then increase 100%, we are back to the original price

ur definitiion of firesale is free fall durians land on ur doorstep

[hopeful]

u from indo...hard to u to find firesales....unless mabe u pay 2% comm for ur agt...entice them....

tat period i everyday diligently flip classifieds and internet,...i mean EVERYDAY

i missed quite a number of firesales tat period too...hesistate for one day....the next day GONE

tats how rich singaporeans is

You don't called your banker to find out? Those credit officers will know who is late in payment. Loan documents are indicate their salaries, how much stress they can take before firesale....

[devilplate]

You don't called your banker to find out? Those credit officers will know who is late in payment. Loan documents are indicate their salaries, how much stress they can take before firesale....

bank sales not cheap

anyway next time u try asking ur banker lor...mine jus say I duno....haha....or mabe he too low level....branch mgr only

[hopeful]

bank sales not cheap

I mean before the bank foreclose on the property, the credit officers will know who are late in payment or have trouble paying.
The credit officers inform you so that you can take action before their bank foreclose. Up to you, property agent or banker to scare the owner into selling.

[devilplate]

I mean before the bank foreclose on the property, the credit officers will know who are late in payment or have trouble paying.
The credit officers inform you so that you can take action before their bank foreclose. Up to you, property agent or banker to scare the owner into selling.

i duno....i only noe bank auctions very expensive at tat time....and yet so many ppl crowd down there....i cant even go into the room

[mantrix]

Highlight a few may be easier to read below. Note that these are based on land, not built-up area, sooooo cheapppppp!

Project Name Street Name Type No. of Units Price
($) Area (Sqft)1
Type of Area2
Unit Price ($psf)3
Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signed LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT YIO CHU KANG ROAD Terrace House 1 505,000 3,306 Land 153 Dec-09 LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT YIO CHU KANG ROAD Terrace House 1 510,000 3,269 Land 156 Feb-10 LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT YIO CHU KANG ROAD Terrace House 1 658,000 3,229 Land 204 Feb-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,323,000 10,301 Strata 226 May-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,323,000 10,301 Strata 226 May-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,550,000 11,173 Strata 228 Apr-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,500,000 10,818 Strata 231 May-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,480,000 10,430 Strata 238 Sep-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,520,000 10,527 Strata 239 Aug-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,500,000 10,366 Strata 241 Sep-10 LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT JALAN ASAS Terrace House 1 466,000 1,880 Land 248 Aug-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,800,000 10,818 Strata 259 Sep-10 LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT YIO CHU KANG ROAD Terrace House 1 875,000 3,306 Land 265 Jun-10 LANDED HOUSING DEVELOPMENT JALAN BANGKET Semi-Detached House 1 990,000 3,643 Land 272 Feb-10 NORTHSHORE BUNGALOWS PONGGOL SEVENTEENTH AVENUE Detached House 1 2,800,000 10,107 Strata 277 Sep-10 PONGGOL PARK PONGGOL TWENTY-FOURTH AVENUE Detached House 1 4,000,000 14,036 Land 285 May-10 TIVOLI GARDENS TAI KENG PLACE Terrace House 1 1,480,000 4,946 Land 299

no. 1 - using propertyguru as a guide? sad to know you rely on it for accuracy

no. 2 - those properties look like a steal until you see them (eg i see many Northshore bungalows - they are 10K sq ft and at one point 200 psf only last year - but they are similar to cluster housing kind - not actual landed)

when you talk about landed, i assume REAL landed (not cluster-type) and in reasonable locations (not those in super-duper ulu places else might as well buy Pulau Hantu) and with ok housing that you don't have to pay to rebuild (else add in 300psf already)

[sh]

I dun know abt others but for me very hard to come by, even though I was aggressively looking (at some projects that I'm interested in).

how to have fire sale when people are looking "aggressively"

[sh]

I mean before the bank foreclose on the property, the credit officers will know who are late in payment or have trouble paying.
The credit officers inform you so that you can take action before their bank foreclose. Up to you, property agent or banker to scare the owner into selling.

believe this information is confidential.... something about banking secrecy....

[sh]

At current market condition :
If a person has $1million cash and afford downpayment for $3 million worth of condos (LTV70%) for INVESTMENT, would it be better to buy
A) 1 CCR condo worth $3million
B) 3 OCR condo worth $1million each.

How many of us here would choose A) or B)?

I think Teddybear would choose A and Stalingrad would choose B. How about others?
Investment horizon is about 5 years.
Net cash flow from rental preferably positive, but a little negative is also ok
Speculating that bulk of money is from sale of property and not from rental.

Would any of you take into consideration that by having more transactions, the likelihood of IRAS taxing you for the profits is increased?

Will buy 3MMs in CCR, ok maybe 2.5MMs

MM rules!

[devilplate]

how to have fire sale when people are looking "aggressively"

if cant find firesale, can showhand caspian last yr wat.....so many units up for grab...u dunwan only mah

waterfront waves starbuy....signature at lewis...lucida...rochelle...countlesss projects sold cheaply

$$ not enuff la!

i was eyeing sky11....no $$$ at tat time

best deal:
11 Thomson Lane #38-08
Freehold
$970
2271
$2203k
10 Sep 09


todays price:
11 Thomson Lane #33-08
Freehold
$1620
2271
$3679k
08 Nov 10


miss the boat forever

[sh]

aiyah... cannot catch every boat mah...

be grateful for having caught some boat or boats

must leave some boat for others right?

[mantrix]

if cant find firesale, can showhand caspian last yr wat.....so many units up for grab...u dunwan only mah

waterfront waves starbuy....signature at lewis...lucida...rochelle...countlesss projects sold cheaply

$$ not enuff la!

i was eyeing sky11....no $$$ at tat time

best deal:
11 Thomson Lane #38-08
Freehold
$970
2271
$2203k
10 Sep 09


todays price:
11 Thomson Lane #33-08
Freehold
$1620
2271
$3679k
08 Nov 10


miss the boat forever

for investment, yes...

for own stay, always worth it. Anyway back then, the quantum is very high - over 2M back then

[amk]

best deal
11 Thomson Lane #38-08
Freehold
$970
2271
$2203k
10 Sep 09

R u sure this is a firesale , and not an original purchase by insiders that lodge the caveat much later ? This price looks like the price SPH sold to themselves.

Sh, yes I see ur point and I agree. At that time, any real gd deal is grabbed almost immediately before it's even known. I firmly believe there were many ppl like me watching at that time. This recession was way too short. Back in 1997 it was very different. Really many firesales.

[teddybear]

1. These are actual transactions from URA.

2. Those stated "land" means they are really landed properties, not strata (which will be stated "strata").

3. You and your good friends here said should buy OCR cheap price can have lots of upside potential, and then you said cannot buy landed now below $500 psf. So I show you now so many landed transacted below $500 psf. So are they good deal as you all proclaimed?
Thought you agreed with your wild bird friends that there is no ulu place in Singapore since Singapore so small? So OCR sure have much higher potential than CCR? Why change tune now saying these so cheap priced landed are in "ulu" locations? These are not in Puala Ubin or Hantu, but in Singapore main island! Even if add $300 psf, many still costs <$500 psf!

no. 1 - using propertyguru as a guide? sad to know you rely on it for accuracy

no. 2 - those properties look like a steal until you see them (eg i see many Northshore bungalows - they are 10K sq ft and at one point 200 psf only last year - but they are similar to cluster housing kind - not actual landed)

when you talk about landed, i assume REAL landed (not cluster-type) and in reasonable locations (not those in super-duper ulu places else might as well buy Pulau Hantu) and with ok housing that you don't have to pay to rebuild (else add in 300psf already)

[mantrix]

1. These are actual transactions from URA.

2. Those stated "land" means they are really landed properties, not strata (which will be stated "strata").

3. You and your good friends here said should buy OCR cheap price can have lots of upside potential, and then you said cannot buy landed now below $500 psf. So I show you now so many landed transacted below $500 psf. So are they good deal as you all proclaimed?
Thought you agreed with your wild bird friends that there is no ulu place in Singapore since Singapore so small? So OCR sure have much higher potential than CCR? Why change tune now saying these so cheap priced landed are in "ulu" locations? These are not in Puala Ubin or Hantu, but in Singapore main island! Even if add $300 psf, many still costs <$500 psf!

Shaugnessy? Real landed property? Are you using the filter correctly? Appears many bought just for the land and then rebuild...anyway this is the past, find me a decent house selling for less than 500psf now (which is the tense we are supposed to be using all along) and I concede my case.

[teddybear]

Let's take about $500 psf case (many available), just take 1 for now:

SEMBAWANG SPRINGS ESTATE JALAN TELIPOK Semi-Detached House 1 2,700,000 5,312 Land 508 Dec-10
Transacted at $508 psf of land in Dec 2010! So cheap! Why don't you buy? No place is ulu in Singapore? Soon whole Singapore's prices including OCR will converge to CCR prices? You know even the old ones in CCR transact at $1500 psf land? Give you $300 psf to tear down whole building and rebuilt still only $805 psf land wah! SO CHEAP! SO HIGH POTENTIAL UPSIDE OF ALMOST $1,000 psf land! Multiply by 5312 sqft of land you will make $5.312m!!! If you so strongly believe OCR will converge to CCR prices in near future, this is REAL BARGAIN! Make $5.312m at least (even if CCR property prices didn't increase a single Cents!).

Shaugnessy? Real landed property? Are you using the filter correctly? Appears many bought just for the land and then rebuild...anyway this is the past, find me a decent house selling for less than 500psf now (which is the tense we are supposed to be using all along) and I concede my case.

[hopeful]

Teddybear, any cheap FH with house in ulu-ulu locations?

Did anybody ever compared HK to Singapore?
From consensus in other forums, HK have better public transport system than Singapore. Yet the gap between luxury and mass market are as wider than ever. Or is time more valuable in HK rather than Singapore. Hongkongers seems to work at a much faster than Singaporeans, even in the pace of walking.

[teddybear]

Ulu-ulu locations? Must ask the OCR BULLs and BIRDs as they like ulu-ulu locations. If you ask me, my advice is "Don't need to waste time on OCR", regardless of whether for own-stay or investment (unless OCR is what you can afford than you can just disregard what I said and pardon me as I have no intention to demean you as I am just telling you frankly my own honest opinion).
Regarding the OCR BULLs reasons etc, you can just look at HK and London property prices and you can make up your own decision on whether what they said stands up to scrutiny.

Teddybear, any cheap FH with house in ulu-ulu locations?

Did anybody ever compared HK to Singapore?
From consensus in other forums, HK have better public transport system than Singapore. Yet the gap between luxury and mass market are as wider than ever. Or is time more valuable in HK rather than Singapore. Hongkongers seems to work at a much faster than Singaporeans, even in the pace of walking.

[hopeful]

Ulu-ulu locations? Must ask the OCR BULLs and BIRDs as they like ulu-ulu locations. If you ask me, my advice is "Don't need to waste time on OCR", regardless of whether for own-stay or investment (unless OCR is what you can afford than you can just disregard what I said and pardon me as I have no intention to demean you as I am just telling you frankly my own honest opinion).
Regarding the OCR BULLs reasons etc, you can just look at HK and London property prices and you can make up your own decision on whether what they said stands up to scrutiny.

I can't afford a GCB, but can do grab those cheap landed ones,if allowed. opportunity cost of holding is low, look at FD rates. better still if have tiny house, at least can still rent out.

Thanks for bringing up HK. HK has better public transport system than Singapore. Yet the prices between mass market and luxury doesnt seem to narrow. Or is time more important in HK than in Singapore? Looking at their work ethics, HK lead a faster pace than SG, even in the way they walk...

[teddybear]

Soon Singapore will follow HK footsteps with the Govt's emphasis on "Productivity". The way to increase "productivity" is to retrench some workers and make the rest of the workers do all the same amount of work. Soon, all the workers will have to learn to work faster and smarter to cope with additional amount of work needed to completed in same amount of time (or your own additional time anyway which doesn't go into the "productivity" statistics). Singapore is always about 10 years behind HK. We will see that in next 10 years (I am quite sure about that!), including your so-called "work faster", "walk faster", and the property price trends.

I can't afford a GCB, but can do grab those cheap landed ones,if allowed. opportunity cost of holding is low, look at FD rates. better still if have tiny house, at least can still rent out.

Thanks for bringing up HK. HK has better public transport system than Singapore. Yet the prices between mass market and luxury doesnt seem to narrow. Or is time more important in HK than in Singapore? Looking at their work ethics, HK lead a faster pace than SG, even in the way they walk...

[hopeful]

interesting read...

The pace of life in 31 countries: Western Europeans combine a fast pace with ample leisure, while Latin Americans take their time both on and off the job
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

excerpts:
....
Before the study began, some colleagues predicted that one or more of the rapidly developing Asian economic powers would score the fastest. Michael Bond, an acclaimed cross-cultural psychologist from the Chinese University of Hong Kong, argued that his home culture would beat the field hands down. "The pace of life here (Hong Kong)," he proclaimed to a Time magazine reporter, "is a lot faster than anyplace else in the world." With the assistance of Bond and his students, we were able to gather several sets of reliable data in Hong Kong. But alas, Hong Kong not only scored behind Japan on all three measures, but was passed by virtually all of Western Europe. Hong Kong was, however, a bit faster than the three other industrialized Asian nations-Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea-which scored 14th, 15th, and 18th, respectively.
......

I guess Westerners, being tall and having long legs help to cover more distance in a shorter time as compared to Asian shorties. If account for that, Japanese would be the fastest walker.

[devilplate]

Soon Singapore will follow HK footsteps with the Govt's emphasis on "Productivity". The way to increase "productivity" is to retrench some workers and make the rest of the workers do all the same amount of work. Soon, all the workers will have to learn to work faster and smarter to cope with additional amount of work needed to completed in same amount of time (or your own additional time anyway which doesn't go into the "productivity" statistics). Singapore is always about 10 years behind HK. We will see that in next 10 years (I am quite sure about that!), including your so-called "work faster", "walk faster", and the property price trends.

die faster also

[mantrix]

Let's take about $500 psf case (many available), just take 1 for now:

SEMBAWANG SPRINGS ESTATE JALAN TELIPOK Semi-Detached House 1 2,700,000 5,312 Land 508 Dec-10
Transacted at $508 psf of land in Dec 2010! So cheap! Why don't you buy? No place is ulu in Singapore? Soon whole Singapore's prices including OCR will converge to CCR prices? You know even the old ones in CCR transact at $1500 psf land? Give you $300 psf to tear down whole building and rebuilt still only $805 psf land wah! SO CHEAP! SO HIGH POTENTIAL UPSIDE OF ALMOST $1,000 psf land! Multiply by 5312 sqft of land you will make $5.312m!!! If you so strongly believe OCR will converge to CCR prices in near future, this is REAL BARGAIN! Make $5.312m at least (even if CCR property prices didn't increase a single Cents!).

Teddy...the lengths you go to...LOL

Cheers lah take it easy