2011 - OCR or CCR ?

[teddybear]

This shows you ignorance about the lure of condos in Orchard for these foreigners. This had and still has been happening in Singapore for past 13 years regarding of property boom or property recession. You mean owners stuck for 13 years through property boom?

empty balconies for weekend homes? that sounds illogical. We have used our second condo as weekend home for one year. And it is a mess now. and the balcony's plants are taller than me.

the more plausible reason that these CCR condos' balconies are bare is because the owners are stuck, not willing to sell at prices below what they paid for them.

[devilplate]

This shows you ignorance about the lure of condos in Orchard for these foreigners. This had and still has been happening in Singapore for past 13 years regarding of property boom or property recession. What is funny to you is not funny to these owners.

wkend in orchard??? u vy funny lor

they buy and park $$ one la....whr got treat it as wkend hm

[mantrix]

wkend in orchard??? u vy funny lor

they buy and park $$ one la....whr got treat it as wkend hm

Teddy, they buy as weekend homes in orchard? Any proof to back that up? I really find that rather incredulous. Already news mentioned that is way oversupply of homes in orchard area all still left unsold - let's not bring future into the picture (that of GLS) but comparing the percentage of unsold homes for each region, Orchard is ranked number one.

[hopeful]

Please use URA website to check for The Orchard Residences

units available 175
launched 156
sold 156

[hopeful]

the more plausible reason that these CCR condos' balconies are bare is because the owners are stuck, not willing to sell at prices below what they paid for them.

Any Indonesians in this forum?
Actually your comment may or may not be true. Owners have holding power since the units are fully paid up.
The only cost to them is opportunity cost of fixed deposit only.

[hopeful]

Teddy, they buy as weekend homes in orchard? Any proof to back that up? I really find that rather incredulous. Already news mentioned that is way oversupply of homes in orchard area all still left unsold - let's not bring future into the picture (that of GLS) but comparing the percentage of unsold homes for each region, Orchard is ranked number one.

How about looking at another angle?
% of unsold homes based on total units built in the region?
Not just launched and unsold.

[hopeful]

is comparing CCR and OCR like comparing Gold and Silver?

Or is CCR like something like diamond?
The markup of jewellery grade diamond is high. Supply is abundant but tightly held and prices controlled by DeBeers.
Knowing all these,good luck bargaining at jewellery stores for a 80% discount.

[teddybear]

Ok, let me tell you this. When I say "weekend", I mean they just use it for leisure use when they are here, and keep them empty when they are away in their own countries. Proof? Telling you my experience and what I know is enough or not? My estate in CCR near Orchard has many units owned by foreigners, I saw them only like once every month or 2, then they disappeared and their house is dark almost everyday except when they are in Singapore. They take leisurely stroll to Botanic Garden in the morning, and walk to Orchard for shopping and food everyday while they are here. I think almost 35-50% of the units are like that in my estate. That is why my estate can never be crowded as so few people using the facilities and for car park each of us can have 3 lots and still very empty, and 330 days out of 365 days there are only half of the units being occupied. Oh yes, 1 more thing, I have not seen real fire-sale here (in response to some people saying these people stuck and cannot sell. Cannot sell Ok no problem as long as they can hold. Got fire-sale I will buy from them first for my children).

After telling you all these, do you see that these are the another good reasons to CCR prime properties vs OCR where for the OCR everyday there are so many people and so cramped and the facilities are not even sufficient to use? BBQ have to fight to book them? Swimming pool so cramp that always bang into other people and cannot even swim in peace? Using Gym facilities have to fight and queue also? Car park lots also have to queue and even fight for them because not enough to go around? What's more?

Teddy, they buy as weekend homes in orchard? Any proof to back that up? I really find that rather incredulous. Already news mentioned that is way oversupply of homes in orchard area all still left unsold - let's not bring future into the picture (that of GLS) but comparing the percentage of unsold homes for each region, Orchard is ranked number one.

[kingkong1984]

I like ccr....

[stalingrad]

Ok, let me tell you this. When I say "weekend", I mean they just use it for leisure use when they are here, and keep them empty when they are away in their own countries. Proof? Telling you my experience and what I know is enough or not? My estate in CCR near Orchard has many units owned by foreigners, I saw them only like once every month or 2, then they disappeared and their house is dark almost everyday except when they are in Singapore. They take leisurely stroll to Botanic Garden in the morning, and walk to Orchard for shopping and food everyday while they are here. I think almost 35-50% of the units are like that in my estate. That is why my estate can never be crowded as so few people using the facilities and for car park each of us can have 3 lots and still very empty, and 330 days out of 365 days there are only half of the units being occupied. Oh yes, 1 more thing, I have not seen real fire-sale here (in response to some people saying these people stuck and cannot sell. Cannot sell Ok no problem as long as they can hold. Got fire-sale I will buy from them first for my children).

After telling you all these, do you see that these are the another good reasons to CCR prime properties vs OCR where for the OCR everyday there are so many people and so cramped and the facilities are not even sufficient to use? BBQ have to fight to book them? Swimming pool so cramp that always bang into other people and cannot even swim in peace? Using Gym facilities have to fight and queue also? Car park lots also have to queue and even fight for them because not enough to go around? What's more?

that is just not true for my ocr condo. our 30m by 50m lap pool is barely used everyday, including the weekend. perhaps my neighbors don't know how to swim? the same goes for the gym.

[teddybear]

Can each of you get 3 car park lots entitlement?

that is just not true for my ocr condo. our 30m by 50m lap pool is barely used everyday, including the weekend. perhaps my neighbors don't know how to swim? the same goes for the gym.

[hopeful]

Can each of you get 3 car park lots entitlement?

Think we are digressing away - whether OCR or CCR will gain most in 2011, based on property price index, either URA or NUS.

I think no one is arguing that Orchard is prime of the prime. Some condos also have 4 lots per unit.
We all know the wealth pyramid. The rich are a few and the poor, well their numbers are like cockroaches, a lot but unseen.

[hopeful]

.......
My estate in CCR near Orchard has many units owned by foreigners, I saw them only like once every month or 2, then they disappeared and their house is dark almost everyday except when they are in Singapore.
.......

Sounds like typical Indonesians. Are the owners mostly Chinese Indonesians?

[mantrix]

How about looking at another angle?
% of unsold homes based on total units built in the region?
Not just launched and unsold.

can you provide that data given your resourcefulness?

[hopeful]

can you provide that data given your resourcefulness?

Sure, wait until I go to Singapore. I don't want to pay $1800 for URA Realis annual subscription
Daily rate is $80 but cannot download, etc. more troublesome.

[Grimloq]

Ccr to out perform OCR. Both to increase in 2011

[hopeful]

Ccr to out perform OCR. Both to increase in 2011

Anybody wants to act as banker?
We can put money where our mouth is.

If we are right, we get money. If we are wrong, we lose money.
As of this moment, all of us are just blowing hot air. No financial repercussions if we are wrong.

[stalingrad]

Anybody wants to act as banker?
We can put money where our mouth is.

If we are right, we get money. If we are wrong, we lose money.
As of this moment, all of us are just blowing hot air. No financial repercussions if we are wrong.

I am not sure about OCR properties. they may go higher. or they will stay where they are.

but I am sure CCR properties will stagnate for at least one more year, if they don't go lower. I don't see fundamentals for such properties. Unlike some of you, I know how it is like to live in either area. the pricing differential is unjustified, in my view.

[hopeful]

I am not sure about OCR properties. they may go higher. or they will stay where they are.

but I am sure CCR properties will stagnate for at least one more year, if they don't go lower. I don't see fundamentals for such properties. Unlike some of you, I know how it is like to live in either area. the pricing differential is unjustified, in my view.

The thing is - buying a property is mostly sentiments, not fundamentals.
If you ask a real estate valuer, he will take a look at surrounding developments, do a bit of magic and fudging, yes that condo in CCR is high because other condos in CCR is also high. a chicken and egg situation.

How do you price fundamental factors, for example, nearness to MRT?
How much will it affect the psf if condo A is 100meter nearer to MRT than condo B. Yes condo A should be pricier, but by how much? What is considered a fair value? 50psf higher? 75psf higher?

If everybody like the Bay view, then TS and MBR will shot up as these are the only 2 that have Bay view in forseeable future.

Nature trends towards the mean. So my prediction:
A) CCR will remain stagnant, OCR will inch up towards CCR
B) CCR will fall, OCR will stay stagnant.
Of these 2 possibilities, A is more likely.

[DaytonaSS]

I am not sure about OCR properties. they may go higher. or they will stay where they are.

but I am sure CCR properties will stagnate for at least one more year, if they don't go lower. I don't see fundamentals for such properties. Unlike some of you, I know how it is like to live in either area. the pricing differential is unjustified, in my view.

Actually, my view differs a bit. Dec news u will see a 100% increase in CCR new developments. D'leedon n robinson suits already see ard 500 units sold not counting other development. On top of that when Tulip garden n serene centre EN BOC go thru, that is bound to cause ripples in a quiet pond.

The OCR rally will rub off RCR n OCR. it's all connected. Pricing differential sometimes ignores all logic. If not y does a 4 rm flat sells for almost 800k in stratemore when u get get a similar one in tampiness/jurong/pungol/cck for 1/2 price.

I feels it's all expectations. Pple feel it will chong they will buy. Same reason y someone pays 1050psf while many of us feel it expensive. Expectations

CCR is play ground for rich. Sometimes it beyond many of us even if u know will chong. 30% down for a 4m property is $1.2. Even I tell u inside infor will chong , most pole will not be able to participate. So we play in our afford range n pray for all to chong. Alot of time I also don't understand y pole can pay 40m for a GCB with well n mosquito but it doesn't mean these pple lose $$$ big time investing in wrg kind of hse.

So we pray together next 5 years chong big time together

[land118]

OCR has closed the gap on CCR in 2010, but for OCR to go up further (surely OCR can over take CCR in psf terms - i seriously don't think so), CCR need to go up and 2011 is high possibilities. So for all OCR supporters, shld hope that CCR outperform in 2011 so that OCR can also go up....

[DaytonaSS]

OCR has closed the gap on CCR in 2010, but for OCR to go up further (surely OCR can over take CCR in psf terms - i seriously don't think so), CCR need to go up and 2011 is high possibilities. So for all OCR supporters, shld hope that CCR outperform in 2011 so that OCR can also go up....

Well said there is a Chinese saying , if the gum got problem the teeth also jialuk.

[devilplate]

OCR has closed the gap on CCR in 2010, but for OCR to go up further (surely OCR can over take CCR in psf terms - i seriously don't think so), CCR need to go up and 2011 is high possibilities. So for all OCR supporters, shld hope that CCR outperform in 2011 so that OCR can also go up....

reverse also true? bottom up? top down....

[teddybear]

Yes right, those so confident OCR why not bet on OCR properties?
Those so confident on CCR should also bet on CCR properties and make it happened!
Ok, all HUAT lah regardless of OCR or CCR! Make those who only can talk but no action one eye pop out!

Anybody wants to act as banker?
We can put money where our mouth is.

If we are right, we get money. If we are wrong, we lose money.
As of this moment, all of us are just blowing hot air. No financial repercussions if we are wrong.

[sh]

Yes right, those so confident OCR why not bet on OCR properties?
Those so confident on CCR should also bet on CCR properties and make it happened!
Ok, all HUAT lah regardless of OCR or CCR! Make those who only can talk but no action one eye pop out!

alredi actioned.... all huat ah...

[rattydrama]

alredi actioned.... all huat ah...

me too! Lets pray hard hard.

[proud owner]

me too! Lets pray hard hard.

wait a bit lah ... my bonus only coming in mid Jan ...

[DaytonaSS]

Yes right, those so confident OCR why not bet on OCR properties?
Those so confident on CCR should also bet on CCR properties and make it happened!
Ok, all HUAT lah regardless of OCR or CCR! Make those who only can talk but no action one eye pop out!

Yes yes, NOV report out many pple spectacle drop! let the momentum ride on! 2011 CCR chong high high, then RCR tio force chong to 1500psf min ah!

[land118]

Yes right, those so confident OCR why not bet on OCR properties?
Those so confident on CCR should also bet on CCR properties and make it happened!
Ok, all HUAT lah regardless of OCR or CCR! Make those who only can talk but no action one eye pop out!

Have both OCR & CCR, need both to Huat in tandem.....win-win..la

[land118]

reverse also true? bottom up? top down....

those that have chiong so much in 2010 will have a harder landing, so you know the answer liao. Chiong very fast and in large quantum (psf) will also fall harder if there is downturn.....