2011 - OCR or CCR ?

[amk]

Let's have one consolidated thread for this discussion.

Start with sh's wonderful proposal :

Which bring me this proposal:-

Let’s revisit this CCR versus OCR debate in a year’s time. Let’s use URA’s index as gauge. The current index for CCR 3rdQ 2010 is 198, for OCR 3rdQ 2010 is 174.6. Let’s see where the index stands for 4thQ 2011 (so it’s in more than 1 year’s time). Let’s see which region registers the greater percentage increment. (hopefully it’s an increment, otherwise we all cry together)

Personally, I see more upside in the CCR. That’s what I am betting on….

Game?

[amk]

For me, I would say at this level, CCR should hopefully outperform OCR in 2011.

There is money to be made in every sector though. So this is not a bash of any one.

After the spectacular jump in 2009-2010, I think OCR is going to take a back seat now.

[teddybear]

I have nothing against OCR, and have owned OCR before. But I clearly see that CCR are undervalued now compared to OCR and that is where I am putting my money in. Common-sense prevails that if places like Carabelle @West Coast can sell at close to $1000 psf, then places like d'Leedon at $1600 psf is definitely undervalued! (Not that I am saying d'Leedon is a good investment in CCR, but it is definitely better than say pay $1000 psf for Carabelle!). d'Leedon area used to be worth even $1000 psf at the lowest price for old resale units while Carabelle area can be gotten at $500 psf when new. So, Carabelle had doubled, d'Leedon area has not. d'Leedon potential upside at current market is probably about $400 psf vs Carabelle $0 psf upside.

For me, I would say at this level, CCR should hopefully outperform OCR in 2011.

There is money to be made in every sector though. So this is not a bash of any one.

After the spectacular jump in 2009-2010, I think OCR is going to take a back seat now.

[bargain hunter]

i feel CCR will outperform OCR if the increment is negative but may not necessarily outperform OCR if the increment is positive.

[mcmlxxvi]

I would have to put my vote in CCR for 2011 star performer.

[rattydrama]

for me I will buy CCR for rental investment but only small unit. since developers now are going after RCR, there are still potential in RCR re-sale with strategic location.

[devilplate]

any ppty near MRT will be good

[rattydrama]

any ppty near MRT will be good

infact all my investment property are near MRT...within 200m big or small, above ground or underground. CCR or RCR or OCR not so important to me. all huat x3 together.

[DC33_2008]

Only went for units with underground mrt stations.

[mantrix]

Guys, let's put our money where our mouth is - gotta walk the talk.

My 2 cents - CCR undervalued cos supply exceed demand (and more to come)

RCR and OCR - fine balance still.

Happy to revisit this in 6 mths.

[land118]

If can afford, go for CCR in 2011.

[Regulators]

CCR depends on where lah. Orchard Residence at $4k plus psf, would you say it is undervalued?

Guys, let's put our money where our mouth is - gotta walk the talk.

My 2 cents - CCR undervalued cos supply exceed demand (and more to come)

RCR and OCR - fine balance still.

Happy to revisit this in 6 mths.

[rattydrama]

CCR depends on where lah. Orchard Residence at $4k plus psf, would you say it is undervalued?

on the same note, some may feel that CCR price has been chased up too high in 2007. since new units are small and steep at the current market price, one may feels that it is more worthwhile to buy 2 units in non-prime areas with good size at good price - one for self stay and another for investment purpose.

Since supply outstrip demand, CCR price to adjust 10% upward?

[Regulators]

i used to be a doomsayer for the OCR and all praises for CCR, but i have changed my perspective since. Some OCR projects can and do offer better quality of life, so being close to office buildings in the CBD does not equate to better quality of life

on the same note, some may feel that CCR price has been chased up too high in 2007. since new units are small and steep at the current market price, one may feels that it is more worthwhile to buy 2 units in non-prime areas with good size at good price - one for self stay and another for investment purpose.

Since supply outstrip demand, CCR price to adjust 10% upward?

[teddybear]

Price is always relative. E.g., newspaper reported that Greenwich @Seletar sold at $1200 psf! I thought I see wrongly, what?, Seletar that so ulu place with all the private jets flying overhead (all the noise and air pollution) worth $1200 psf? If so, should d'Leedon be worth >$2400 psf? Shouldn't L'Viv @Newton be worth $3000 psf? With these relative prices, it is either that OCR Greenwich is seriously overpriced or d'Leedon selling at $1600 psf or L'Viv selling at $2000 psf is seriously underpriced!

Next, we look at supply and demand. Assume demand remain constant for OCR and CCR, with the Govt selling so much OCR land now for building private properties and the Govt holding so much much more empty OCR land that can be used for building private properties (can build another 2-3m units!), supply is definitely much much greater than that constant demand! Next we look at CCR, Govt holding very very little empty CCR land (compared to OCR land), private only holding selected few land from enbloc. This should tell us very much about the serious oversupply of OCR 2-3 years down the road. Now think, how will that affect prices?

on the same note, some may feel that CCR price has been chased up too high in 2007. since new units are small and steep at the current market price, one may feels that it is more worthwhile to buy 2 units in non-prime areas with good size at good price - one for self stay and another for investment purpose.

Since supply outstrip demand, CCR price to adjust 10% upward?

[kingkong1984]

Alot want to eat chicken rice in hawker centre versus expensive chicken rice in orchard. Still same chicken lah, will turn into same shit after digestion. Expensive shit better?

[stalingrad]

Alot want to eat chicken rice in hawker centre versus expensive chicken rice in orchard. Still same chicken lah, will turn into same shit after digestion. Expensive shit better?

listen to this talk. it sounds simplistic, but captures the trends in ccr and ocr condos. it says, everywhere you look, we see the same stuff, the same chains of stores and supermarkets and such. so, why pay so much so to live "prime" areas, other than to live so close to indons and PRC tycoons, who may or may not be the best of neighbors.

[stalingrad]

i used to be a doomsayer for the OCR and all praises for CCR, but i have changed my perspective since. Some OCR projects can and do offer better quality of life, so being close to office buildings in the CBD does not equate to better quality of life

another kernel of wisdom.

unless one is a speculator, what matters is your quality of life, and whether you can sleep soundly at night or not. why live in D10 while burdened to death by your mortgage payments. life is too short to live like that. if you gamble on prime properties, there are two outcomes, win or lose. if you win, you can't take away your wealth with you when you die. if you lose, you will suffer for the rest of your life. so, why make such bets. be happy with what you have, a nice ocr condo with no debt and a peaceful life. let the reckless type gamble away their lives.

[teddybear]

Same chicken, different ease of access, different environment mah. Otherwise Malaysia Johor chicken rice even cheaper, why don't you go eat there everyday? Malaysia terrace house only RM100k (i.e. S$40k! Cheaper than a car in Singapore!). Why don't 95% of people in Singapore who can't afford CCR private properties go live there (can save much much more money than living in OCR or even HDB flats anywhere in Singapore)?
In fact, if you own even a 3rm HDB flat in Singapore, you can straight-away sell it and retire in a terrace house in Malaysia Johor! Don't even need to work anymore! Why work so hard and slough for hours just to be able to buy even a HDB "pigeon hole" in Singapore?

Alot want to eat chicken rice in hawker centre versus expensive chicken rice in orchard. Still same chicken lah, will turn into same shit after digestion. Expensive shit better?

[teddybear]

How to sleep soundly at night when the next day you step out of your house you get slash with padang swiping youngsters and gangsters/foreigners (as reported in newspapers in Kallang, Bukit Panjang, Yishun housing estate areas)?

another kernel of wisdom.

unless one is a speculator, what matters is your quality of life, and whether you can sleep soundly at night or not. why live in D10 while burdened to death by your mortgage payments. life is too short to live like that. if you gamble on prime properties, there are two outcomes, win or lose. if you win, you can't take away your wealth with you when you die. if you lose, you will suffer for the rest of your life. so, why make such bets. be happy with what you have, a nice ocr condo with no debt and a peaceful life. let the reckless type gamble away their lives.

[ay123]

CCR is rich field game. unless u have enough ammo, or else even if the CCR is REALLY "underprice" as per experts, one should not touch. the risk is high. My friend bought sentosa cove during 2007 thinking the price could shoot higher. but the value drop after bought. it drop as low as 50% in early 2009. i think now it is still not breakeven. so is 2007 CCR peak level really sustainable or it is just being pushed by speculator??

[teddybear]

Really? Imagine your next door is full of those "chickens", everyday got free shows going on (including the sound), you have kids watching all these, how will they grow up to be?
Imagine around your estate there are people sniffing glues, doing obscene or disgusting things, wash clothing and bathing in common toilet, you want your kids to learn such values from them?

Kids are just kids, they learn from their environment and their friends best! If you are Ok with all the above, it also speaks very much about your character and what you want to impart your kids. If you are not OK why you treat it as though it is OK, no problem? Money more important or bringing up a kid with proper character more important? Or Money is an issue to you?

listen to this talk. it sounds simplistic, but captures the trends in ccr and ocr condos. it says, everywhere you look, we see the same stuff, the same chains of stores and supermarkets and such. so, why pay so much so to live "prime" areas, other than to live so close to indons and PRC tycoons, who may or may not be the best of neighbors.

[ay123]

Really? Imagine your next door is full of those "chickens", everyday got free shows going on (including the sound), you have kids watching all these, how will they grow up to be?
Imagine around your estate there are people sniffing glues, doing obscene or disgusting things, wash clothing and bathing in common toilet, you want your kids to learn such values from them?

Kids are just kids, they learn from their environment and their friends best! If you are Ok with all the above, it also speaks very much about your character and what you want to impart your kids. If you are not OK why you treat it as though it is OK, no problem? Money more important or bringing up a kid with proper character more important? Or Money is an issue to you?

are u saying that 95% of population will be of poor character becos they don stay in CCR?? if tats the case wouldnt the 5% "high class" people be at risk becos they are surrounded by 95% of glue sniffer, bad character, uncivilised behaviour?

[bargain hunter]

last sunday, exotic Mcdonald's right beside Ridout GCB Area also got crazy man walk naked. who says only when u stay outside CCR, your kids see obscene things.

[teddybear]

No I didn't. Is your brain reading things that people didn't write or you think that way?

I am only saying that in those HDB estates, nowsadays with many foreigner workers, "chickens", gangsters, bad kids/youngsters around, it is becoming a messy and complicated place for young children/kids. What is the chance of you meeting all these people in HDB estates? What is the chance of you meeting all these people in OCR cheap private properties (8 squeeze into a 2 or 3BR units)? Chances are definitely very very much higher than say seeing them living in CCR expensive properties! It is definitely not 100% but very very high. That is what I am trying to say. So, if I have the money, and I want to reduce my kids' exposure to these undesirable things/sights/experience, I buy CCR, the more expensive the better. That also explains why people are willing to buy the more expensive CCR properties that they can afford than to buy cheap OCR properties. (This also answers the question of those calling people are stupid, idiot, brain-dead to buy CCR properties.). However, if I can't afford and I still want to buy a private property, then no choice lah, I buy OCR private property (still better than HDB flats in outlying areas). If last I still can't afford, then no choice lor, buy HDB flats, but I will sure upgrade when I have the money!

are u saying that 95% of population will be of poor character becos they don stay in CCR?? if tats the case wouldnt the 5% "high class" people be at risk becos they are surrounded by 95% of glue sniffer, bad character, uncivilised behaviour?

[teddybear]

That is a GCB area you know? You think the naked crazy man can walk into the GCB? Other than that, Mcdonald is a commercial place, nobody can stop him. Also, that place is Queenstown, not in CCR . (Even if CCR also have "real CCR" and "fake CCR" - you should know better by now? The fake ones are the likes of Holland Village, Mt Sinai areas, Upper Bukit Timah areas near the D21, etc. Don't understand why they are already so far from Central town area still labelled as "CCR"?)
See, you live outside CCR you see these crazy people walking around naked!

last sunday, exotic Mcdonald's right beside Ridout GCB Area also got crazy man walk naked. who says only when u stay outside CCR, your kids see obscene things.

[mantrix]

CCR depends on where lah. Orchard Residence at $4k plus psf, would you say it is undervalued?

i mean CCR gives the impression of being undervalued when actually if you look at it, there is way too much supply than demand. What does this tell us?

I simply think CCR is way over-rated nowadays...just because it was at a high in 2007 doesn't mean it has to exceed it now.

I think the era of the suburbia has come.

[stalingrad]

No I didn't. Is your brain reading things that people didn't write or you think that way?

I am only saying that in those HDB estates, nowsadays with many foreigner workers, "chickens", gangsters, bad kids/youngsters around, it is becoming a messy and complicated place for young children/kids. What is the chance of you meeting all these people in HDB estates? What is the chance of you meeting all these people in OCR cheap private properties (8 squeeze into a 2 or 3BR units)? Chances are definitely very very much higher than say seeing them living in CCR expensive properties! It is definitely not 100% but very very high. That is what I am trying to say. So, if I have the money, and I want to reduce my kids' exposure to these undesirable things/sights/experience, I buy CCR, the more expensive the better. That also explains why people are willing to buy the more expensive CCR properties that they can afford than to buy cheap OCR properties. (This also answers the question of those calling people are stupid, idiot, brain-dead to buy CCR properties.). However, if I can't afford and I still want to buy a private property, then no choice lah, I buy OCR private property (still better than HDB flats in outlying areas). If last I still can't afford, then no choice lor, buy HDB flats, but I will sure upgrade when I have the money!

hey, Hitler is dictating where we must live. we are talking about OCR condos, and he keeps scaring us with horror stories about HDB. I don't think these horror stories apply to ocr condos. I have never seen any kids sniff glue in my condo, or chopper wielding ones.

[stalingrad]

i mean CCR gives the impression of being undervalued when actually if you look at it, there is way too much supply than demand. What does this tell us?

I simply think CCR is way over-rated nowadays...just because it was at a high in 2007 doesn't mean it has to exceed it now.

I think the era of the suburbia has come.

if you look at casabella and Duchess residences in terms of layout and nearby amenities (or the lack thereof), you would sniff "1800psf for this kind of shit?"

that sums it all about prime properties. Let the indons and PRC buy them. not us.

[teddybear]

CCR too much supply? Hei, that is twisting the facts too much! Please drive around and see where are all the empty lands to be found? Please check govt GLS programme and see where are all the lands under the Govt land sales programme to be sold located? All OCR! Conclusion: It is OCR that has too much supply now and in the future!

i mean CCR gives the impression of being undervalued when actually if you look at it, there is way too much supply than demand. What does this tell us?

I simply think CCR is way over-rated nowadays...just because it was at a high in 2007 doesn't mean it has to exceed it now.

I think the era of the suburbia has come.