The Cape by FEO breaking psf in D15

[thomastansb]

Then you are just another Aristo buyer who buy at 2000 psf and wait 30 years to breakeven if this is your appreciation theory. A D15 is D15, period. MRT or no MRT, it is D15. The cape no view somemore. Btw, how much is Aristo now? 1500 psf? Seriously, anyone who want to pay 1500 for Aristo is better off buying Esta/One Amber/Sea View/Cote D'A. Big sized condo, feel like condo. People don't learn, do they?

Some of the points discussed are not 'IF's anymore you know? That cinema at Katong Park is under construction now and what are the odds of a cinema not near MRT? Those workers at Katong Park are really digging something and it can't be for gold right? Neither can they be actors hired to pretend to be doing soil tests. Then if we trace the natural route for the station, it won't be hard to see that the next station after Katong Park may really be at Parkway Parade area (along the line).

Personally I feel that property appreciation is not just by zoning (ie, the assumption that if D15 increases in value, D9, 10, 11 must increase by the same proportion). It is a combination of different factors - location, amenities, design of condo, view, etc. Just look at Reflections @ Keppel Bay. Same floor can differ in psf by $500 simply because one has sea view and the other has golf view. That is not a D9, 10, 11 condo too, but definitely more attractive than a unit in say Newton?

[devilplate]

i believe those prime D15 is better den those subprime 9,10,11.....can nvr be on par with prime 9,10,11 though.....but upcoming 1,4 looks promising

[Condo Kaiser]

Some of the points discussed are not 'IF's anymore you know? That cinema at Katong Park is under construction now and what are the odds of a cinema not near MRT? Those workers at Katong Park are really digging something and it can't be for gold right? Neither can they be actors hired to pretend to be doing soil tests. Then if we trace the natural route for the station, it won't be hard to see that the next station after Katong Park may really be at Parkway Parade area (along the line).

Personally I feel that property appreciation is not just by zoning (ie, the assumption that if D15 increases in value, D9, 10, 11 must increase by the same proportion). It is a combination of different factors - location, amenities, design of condo, view, etc. Just look at Reflections @ Keppel Bay. Same floor can differ in psf by $500 simply because one has sea view and the other has golf view. That is not a D9, 10, 11 condo too, but definitely more attractive than a unit in say Newton?

Agree with your point on property prices are not purely determined by district zoning. But don't you think D15 potential has been fully priced in already? I mean how long have we been talking abt MRT now? If we talk another 3 years then price surely cant go up another 20% right? I wouldn't say kepple is better than Newton. As you have mentioned, property comparison is too hard unless you can keep everything equal (design,facilities,height etc).

Agree that some project in non D9/10 are nicer than the lousy projects (MM for example) in D9/10. So naturally more ex. But you cannot just generalise that D15 is worth more than D9. If both projects are equally nice, then surely Newton/Robertson will be more ex than D15.

[Shawn]

Good for the buyers. 2,100 psf. There are many projects around. Aalto was transacting at 3000 psf in 2007. Aristo was selling 1700 to 2200 psf in 2007. What happen now? All must be kicking themselves now. URA index has surpassed 2007 peak but I don't see Aalto or Aristo any where close to that level. Probably, will take forever to hit back that level. All these MRT speculations are nonsense. This is how people's wealth get eroded but this is also how some people become rich.

Well bingo ! Then you should know then which condos hold the greatest psf appreciation potential. Some new U/C condos like Aristo are selling at far below market value for that area cause Aristo was launched just before the financial crisis came in. It was launched at 1800psf but when the crisis came, the developer gave huge discount and its units were transacting at 1,100-1,200psf. It is completely sold out. The reason why Aristo still hasnt catched up yet is because it hasnt TOP yet. Wait till its completed and by then it will be too late to buy. Its neighbor, The Cape, which does not have as good view of the sea as Aristo, is now transacting at 2,000psf. So what have u? A million dollar chance of a lifetime to make money. See below:

Average Selling Prices around Amber/Meyer
The Cape - 2,000psf
16@Amber - 1,700 psf
SilverSea - 1,900psf
Aalto - 1,900psf
The Aristo - 1,300 psf

I do not list One Amber and Esta cause they are not considered as condos with unblocked seaviews and its frontal not close to the beach. The condos above are all at the periphery of the East Coast beach and its ameneties. Usually such condos command premium prices due to its closeness and easily accessible to the beach as well as it potential being close to the future mrt station line.

There is also a very high chance that a MRT station will be sited near Amber Road probably at the site behind Aristo.

[devilplate]

Aristo at most got pocketed pathetic seaview..... Silversea is like the great wall of china

Better let go aristo before it TOP..... Buyers will get a shock of the actual size n layout after it TOP

[reuters]

Then you are just another Aristo buyer who buy at 2000 psf and wait 30 years to breakeven if this is your appreciation theory. A D15 is D15, period. MRT or no MRT, it is D15. The cape no view somemore. Btw, how much is Aristo now? 1500 psf? Seriously, anyone who want to pay 1500 for Aristo is better off buying Esta/One Amber/Sea View/Cote D'A. Big sized condo, feel like condo. People don't learn, do they?

I don't know where your reference of Aristo came about because I never said I will buy Aristo at 2,000psf. I already have a nice unit around the region in discussion and my personal feel is that if it is a really good unit (high floor, good view, etc), 1,500 to 1,700psf is a good buy for a freehold since Silversea is already 1,700psf even though it is a 99-yr leasehold project. Your reference to District prestige does not necessary equate preference. I asked my tenant why he chose Marine Parade over Newton and he just said it was really very convenient to travel to work. My appreciation theory is by demand/supply. If there is continued demand, the market will not be that badly hurt even if they is a surplus of units over the next 2 years.

With a similar budget of 1,500 to 2,000psf, it is true that we can possibly find something in D9, 10, 11, but what type of property are we talking about? I have seen some at 2,200psf in Newton, Bukit Timah area with obscenely stupid layout and not much of a view, let along a short walk to a beach. Besides for price appreciation, we also need new things to happen around the area. What is new in D9, 10, 11 over the next few years? The East and South on the other hand have huge projects including the Gardens by the Bay.

[DC33_2008]

Should let go asap with Silversea gaining height each day.

Aristo at most got pocketed pathetic seaview..... Silversea is like the great wall of china

Better let go aristo before it TOP..... Buyers will get a shock of the actual size n layout after it TOP

[Condo Kaiser]

I don't know where your reference of Aristo came about because I never said I will buy Aristo at 2,000psf. I already have a nice unit around the region in discussion and my personal feel is that if it is a really good unit (high floor, good view, etc), 1,500 to 1,700psf is a good buy for a freehold since Silversea is already 1,700psf even though it is a 99-yr leasehold project. Your reference to District prestige does not necessary equate preference. I asked my tenant why he chose Marine Parade over Newton and he just said it was really very convenient to travel to work. My appreciation theory is by demand/supply. If there is continued demand, the market will not be that badly hurt even if they is a surplus of units over the next 2 years.

With a similar budget of 1,500 to 2,000psf, it is true that we can possibly find something in D9, 10, 11, but what type of property are we talking about? I have seen some at 2,200psf in Newton, Bukit Timah area with obscenely stupid layout and not much of a view, let along a short walk to a beach. Besides for price appreciation, we also need new things to happen around the area. What is new in D9, 10, 11 over the next few years? The East and South on the other hand have huge projects including the Gardens by the Bay.

I think to make your argument more complete. We can agree that at different budget, there are diffrent choices as well as one or two obvious winners.

For example, you can spend 1.5mil for a 2 bedder in D15 with pocket seaview and potential MRT. Or you can also get a one bedder in Robertson Quay with singapore river view and short walk to MRT. Robertson closer to both Orchard and CBD but D15 got Beach. So depends on do you prefer sea or city and do you need 2 bed or just studio is good. So both are equally good and only boils down to what you prefer.

But on the flip side, if you only look at psf. You cannot use the minimum psf for a prime condo to compare with a top of range not-so-prime condo in the same psf range. 1500psf cannot get anything nice in Robertson/Holland/Newton but can get a quite nice condo in D15. Similarly 1000psf cannot get a nice condo in D15 (probably got to go to Joo Chiat side) but can get a quite nice condo in Bedok (for example Waterfront collection) Then just because that Bedok condo is newer, looks better etc, you cannot just make a sweeping statement and say Bedok is better than D15 mah.

Nobody say D15 is no good.. just that the good ones in D15 will always be cheaper than the good ones in D9. Comparing top range D15 to bottom choices in D9 is like comparing newly built HDB with 35 year old OCR condo. Probably have same psf but can you conclude all HDB are better?

[shauntanzs]

I feel unless u really like the beach alot n frequent it, why pay 2000psf for seaview? Pay abit more n you get The Sail with MRT right below, plus Seaview too.. U still can drive to the beach in 10mins every other day

[reuters]

I feel unless u really like the beach alot n frequent it, why pay 2000psf for seaview? Pay abit more n you get The Sail with MRT right below, plus Seaview too.. U still can drive to the beach in 10mins every other day

Erm, excuse me, The Sail is not 'a bit more'. It is GINORMOUSLY ALOT MORE. The units are now put up at between $2,500 to $3,500 psf. Even if the units at Marine Parade are 2,000psf they are probably the high floor units, whereas a 2,500psf unit in The Sail may even be a low floor one. That 500 to 1,500psf margin is huge! Can buy another condo already.

[Wild Falcon]

The Cape got breathtaking sea view meh? I suspect there are some agents in this thread.

I feel unless u really like the beach alot n frequent it,
why pay 2000psf for seaview? Pay abit more n you get The Sail with MRT right below, plus Seaview too.. U still can drive to the beach in 10mins every other day

[minority]

break taking see view.... hah hah... so far from the sea can see?

[devilplate]

The Cape got breathtaking sea view meh? I suspect there are some agents in this thread.

even ppl say aristo got seaview....silverSEA view more like it

[Shawn]

even ppl say aristo got seaview....silverSEA view more like it

Well you seem to be so negative on D15 properties especially The Aristo. Guess you must be one of those investors waiting to buy in.

As you know, Aristo neighbour, The Cape has successfully sold its low floor units for 1800-2000psf. And looking at The Cape layout u cant see any difference from The Aristo or 16@Amber, all using full glass facade with big balcony and planter sizes. I guess these all add to the aesthetic value of a condo despite what you may call as wastage of space. To argue with, Devonshire Residences studio in D9 started at 498 sq.ft with huge wastage on planter and balcony/roof terraces and yet developer is looking to launch it at 2500psf onwards. And there are so many MM in D15 units even much much smaller than Aristo units and they are all selling well above 1500 psf. So you have no valid arguments !

Aristo seaview is definitely much better than the Seaview, The Cape, Esta or One Amber if you made enough research and study into it. It might not be as good as SilverSea but some units above 15 floor especially stack 2 and 3 enjoyed good unobstructed view of the sea as well as the city from the old Big Splash all the way to Fort Road.

So my argument is it depends on which unit and which facing in any condo, prices can vary significantly.

[Shawn]

Aristo at most got pocketed pathetic seaview..... Silversea is like the great wall of china

Better let go aristo before it TOP..... Buyers will get a shock of the actual size n layout after it TOP

And for your good info, I am trying to get the high floor units owners at The Aristo to sell as I have a few interested buyers from overseas. All the owners are holding their high floor units till TOP obviously for a reason. And you should know why !

Amber/Meyer areas will never be below 1500psf in the future. Marine Point just went enbloc and new development will sell at 1800psf onwards. You can forget about down-talking these prime district 15 cause they are slated to be the 2nd Orchard Road.

Why would Aristo buyers get a shock abt the size of their units?? See below its even worst and smaller and yet good demand

Devonshire Residence - 498 sq.ft with big balcony
16@Amber - 450 sq.ft 1 room with big baywindow
The Cape - 590 sq.ft onwards
and many other MM units all sold out

[devilplate]

If prices were to drop, aristo will not be in my radar definitely.....

Y comparing with other CMI projects ..... They r many better layout projects elsewhr rite? We shall tok about the seaview when aristo eventually TOP ?

Prices r no longer cheap now n if u buy now.... Pls b more choosy n take ur time as prices r not gg to fly in the near term

[thomastansb]

My feel is that Aristo is so low because of market reality. Layout, site area, facilities etc. And no point speculating where the MRT is as I mentioned earlier.

Well bingo ! Then you should know then which condos hold the greatest psf appreciation potential. Some new U/C condos like Aristo are selling at far below market value for that area cause Aristo was launched just before the financial crisis came in. It was launched at 1800psf but when the crisis came, the developer gave huge discount and its units were transacting at 1,100-1,200psf. It is completely sold out. The reason why Aristo still hasnt catched up yet is because it hasnt TOP yet. Wait till its completed and by then it will be too late to buy. Its neighbor, The Cape, which does not have as good view of the sea as Aristo, is now transacting at 2,000psf. So what have u? A million dollar chance of a lifetime to make money. See below:

Average Selling Prices around Amber/Meyer
The Cape - 2,000psf
16@Amber - 1,700 psf
SilverSea - 1,900psf
Aalto - 1,900psf
The Aristo - 1,300 psf

I do not list One Amber and Esta cause they are not considered as condos with unblocked seaviews and its frontal not close to the beach. The condos above are all at the periphery of the East Coast beach and its ameneties. Usually such condos command premium prices due to its closeness and easily accessible to the beach as well as it potential being close to the future mrt station line.

There is also a very high chance that a MRT station will be sited near Amber Road probably at the site behind Aristo.

[thomastansb]

Same here. Just look at the floor plan of the unit. Not my cup of tea definitely. And look at the facilities and site

If prices were to drop, aristo will not be in my radar definitely.....

Y comparing with other CMI projects ..... They r many better layout projects elsewhr rite? We shall tok about the seaview when aristo eventually TOP ?

Prices r no longer cheap now n if u buy now.... Pls b more choosy n take ur time as prices r not gg to fly in the near term

[Laguna]

And for your good info, I am trying to get the high floor units owners at The Aristo to sell as I have a few interested buyers from overseas.

U must be the agent Shawn

[Condo Kaiser]

Definitely an agent.

[shauntanzs]

Oh no.. Another agent.. Let's run...

[bargain hunter]

"BT understands that Far East has sold more than 10 units at The Cape and is likely to officially launch the project - marked by the start of an ad campaign - next week. The average price is said to be in the $1,800-1,900 psf range.
'The Cape offers the most luxurious SoHo-living lifestyle with the flexibility for buyers to design and customise their own living spaces,' said FEO's chief operating officer (property sales) Chia Boon Kuah."

[devilplate]

this thread title abit inappropriate rite? whr got record breaking in D15.....nobody beat the aalto yet leh

[hopeful]

this thread title abit inappropriate rite? whr got record breaking in D15.....nobody beat the aalto yet leh

you mean that $3000psf!!!

[devilplate]

you mean that $3000psf!!!

aalto current prices average aso got 1900psf.....big unit sizes somemore....

[blackpepperj]

So who has made money from Aalto other than the developer?

[devilplate]

So who has made money from Aalto other than the developer?

Subsale can make abit.... Was offered a mid flr unit at 16xxpsf in 09

[Shawn]

this thread title abit inappropriate rite? whr got record breaking in D15.....nobody beat the aalto yet leh

Well The Cape 1800-1900psf was for its 3rd to 6th floor after deducting all the discounts which unfortunately will not be indicated in the purchase price for eg. stamp duty rebate after TOP, furnishing rebate. Actual purchase price which will be reported in the URA should be around 1900-2000psf minimum.

Then what abt the higher floors ? 2200psf? It seems all very likely.

And you still consider this not record breaking for D15??

Please also note that Amberglades has already been successfully enbloc and bought over by Far East again..u can bet what price psf will Far East sell when its breakeven margin is $1500psf. Next coming will be Amber Towers which will close its tender by April. The whole Amber area will be slated as the next Orchard Road once the MRT station location is confirmed. And words are also coming out that Katong Shopping Centre might go enbloc to develop a mega shopping mall there.

You should be smart enough to guess why Far East is so active within a small area within Amber.

[thomastansb]

Huh?? It didn't break Aalto 3k psf.

Next Orchard? Do you know where is Orchard road? The stretch from Tanglin Mall, Borders, Taka, 313, Plaza Sing. I can't count the number of shopping centres with both hands and legs.

Katong? Most are conservancy houses. If not, landed or HDB. Where can you build that belt of shopping? And it is not even that central to begin with.

Far east is going so fast because they know got people who are willing to pay insane price for a D15. And we are talking about the middle far end of D15. Not tg rhu or meyer road. What happen to those who pay 2500 to 3000 psf for Aalto? Looking at average 1500 to 2000 psf now

Well The Cape 1800-1900psf was for its 3rd to 6th floor after deducting all the discounts which unfortunately will not be indicated in the purchase price for eg. stamp duty rebate after TOP, furnishing rebate. Actual purchase price which will be reported in the URA should be around 1900-2000psf minimum.

Then what abt the higher floors ? 2200psf? It seems all very likely.

And you still consider this not record breaking for D15??

Please also note that Amberglades has already been successfully enbloc and bought over by Far East again..u can bet what price psf will Far East sell when its breakeven margin is $1500psf. Next coming will be Amber Towers which will close its tender by April. The whole Amber area will be slated as the next Orchard Road once the MRT station location is confirmed. And words are also coming out that Katong Shopping Centre might go enbloc to develop a mega shopping mall there.

You should be smart enough to guess why Far East is so active within a small area within Amber.

[devilplate]

hmm... tampines central got 3 Malls and a few commercial buildings and near to expo/cbp/4th uni/changi airport.....wow....sounds great but tampines still tampines....