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Thread: Discussion : How will results at Singapore General Elections Affect Housing Prices ?

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    Default Discussion : How will results at Singapore General Elections Affect Housing Prices ?

    As title thread.

    I do not think housing prices will be greatly affected regardless of any results at the elections.

    This is because of the great rise in housing prices recently already happened.

    It should remain at plateau level for awhile regardless what happen at GE.

    Besides URA and HDB town planning will still continue no matter what result it will be.

    ICA immigration plans will still continue no matter what result it will be.

    I do not see any changes even if present government win or lose more seats than previous elections.

    What are your thoughts ??

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    there will be more houses/apartment and more FT buying houses.

    For investment view point, its no longer like the golden days where just buy new launches, seat there and huatx3. Investor got to do more work and find gems within a vicinity and know the layout well to gain the best returns.

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    Previously the neighborhood usually have predictable growth/changes over the years. Now when you buy a condo with nice view, the next thing you would know, a few landed houses your house is facing might get en-bloc for a development that will tower over you...

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    it is the vocal minority who are complaining about increasing FWs and increasing property prices.

    You are all property owners but you have keeping mum about the need for FWs to increase so that rental can go up, yield goes up, and price of property goes up again.
    Unfortunately I am not Singaporean, so my words have no weight.

    AGM over. Management doesn't have to give 2 hoots to the shareholders. Damn all those shareholders with all their silly questions. Next time, before AGM, give them more delicious food, until they are full and all the blood goes to the stomach instead of to the brain during Q & A time.
    Better still, employ SYT so that even more blood goes to the nether regions and stomach, and none to the brain, make them full and fool.

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    govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs

    probably some impact on private pty market but not as much

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs

    probably some impact on private pty market but not as much
    i feel there will be more measures


    govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)

    spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    govt will surely target further measures to stabilise public housing after sleeping on the job for the past 4 yrs

    probably some impact on private pty market but not as much
    you sure they are sleeping?
    Not a deliberate action on their part?
    Sleeping on the job is a more forgivable action. Deliberate increase immigration and build less HDB is not a political wise action. So how can they admit?
    Any JC economics can tell you about demand supply equation. More demand for housing together with less supply available equates to price move up.

    Orchard Road flooding is sleeping on the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i feel there will be more measures


    govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)

    spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
    It is good that you mentioned about Singapore lagging introducing more measures. If China/HK/Taiwan/etc has introduced those measures, won't Singapore government has political cover - as in look people, other countries has already introduced, so we also introduced more stringent measures to control runaway property prices. Using that as a political cover would mitigate any repercussions from a slight drop in property prices. people still vote in coming GE.
    Afterall, when other countries raised their insurance payout platform for bank deposits, Singapore also raised from 20k to 200k? They gave the reason that other countries has implemented, if don't implement, funds would go to other countries that has blanket guarantee or higher payouts in case banks failed.

    According to SM Goh, foreigner's are buying only air space. Money into real property cannot be taken out easily. More foreigners buying is good for Singapore. Sucking up all the funds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i feel there will be more measures


    govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)

    spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
    Wat r the chances the present policies are to bring in more of those $$$$? It certainly looks like that to me

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    What other countries are doing does not mean Singapore has to do it as well. If Singapore Govt always do same way as others, Singapore is already dead, no prosperity we are seeing today. It is short-sighted to target demand side measures for properties (they have learned this lesson since 1997), so Singapore target supply side measures, which is really clever move. Let the money come in never mind, they sell more land, build more properties to soak up the money. Because of the increased supply, prices of private properties will go up but not so much too quickly to achieve more sustainable growth over longer period of time (same for HDB flats but that one they are more concerned over price increase). Because there is no capital control, no demand side measure, coupled with super low housing loan interest rates and prospects of further S$ appreciation (convert to S$ and wait for appreciation also makes money, esp from US$), foreigners will be more comfortable bringing more money in to Singapore from overseas but these will be invested, and the Govt's target should be to direct these money to invest in properties which are less liquid and hence will not cause so much forex fluctuations and sudden outflow of capital as well in future. They are the biggest winners in terms of revenue collection!

    Property prices up no good? Who said so? That small <10% people, the very VOCAL ones, waiting to buy properties and cow-pay cow-bull or the >90% already owning properties (but so far remains silent)? Is the <10% votes more important to them in the GE or the >90% votes? Regardless of GE or not, I believe their strategy so far has been well calibrated, that <10% hoping to buy cheap cheap, well, fat-hope for now! That commie can go and wait at the WC?

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i feel there will be more measures


    govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)

    spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
    Last edited by teddybear; 11-01-11 at 08:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i feel there will be more measures


    govt has been very lenient .. only becos of GE ..they dont want to rock the boat ( votes)

    spore has been lagging compared to the other countries like china/HK/Taiwan/korea ..
    spore property price does not shoot up as high as them so i don think there is a need to introduce more drastic measure. even if there is, the more they will lower the LTV again. so far this has the greatest impact

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    What other countries are doing does not mean Singapore has to do it as well. If Singapore Govt always do same way as others, Singapore is already dead, no prosperity we are seeing today. It is short-sighted to target demand side measures for properties (they have learned this lesson since 1997), so Singapore target supply side measures, which is really clever move. Let the money come in never mind, they sell more land, build more properties to soak up the money. Because of the increased supply, prices of private properties will go up but not so much too quickly to achieve more sustainable growth over longer period of time (same for HDB flats but that one they are more concerned over price increase). Because there is no capital control, no demand side measure, coupled with super low housing loan interest rates and prospects of further S$ appreciation (convert to S$ and wait for appreciation also makes money, esp from US$), foreigners will be more comfortable bringing more money in to Singapore from overseas but these will be invested, and the Govt's target should be to direct these money to invest in properties which are less liquid and hence will not cause so much forex fluctuations and sudden outflow of capital as well in future. They are the biggest winners in terms of revenue collection!

    Property prices up no good? Who said so? That small <10% people, the very VOCAL ones, waiting to buy properties and cow-pay cow-bull or the >90% already owning properties (but so far remains silent)? Is the <10% votes more important to them in the GE or the >90% votes? Regardless of GE or not, I believe their strategy so far has been well calibrated, that <10% hoping to buy cheap cheap, well, fat-hope for now! That commie can go and wait at the WC?

    these so called foreign buyers ... theres no way to stop tehm from selling .. when things turn ..

    it will be a bigger problem when they start to sell ..this is what govt is afriad of

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    these so called foreign buyers ... theres no way to stop tehm from selling .. when things turn ..

    it will be a bigger problem when they start to sell ..this is what govt is afriad of
    Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....

    Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
    Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
    So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....

    Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
    Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
    So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?
    today over 35% in Spore are foriegners (25% non-residents, 10% PRs), as their number balloons the likelihood of a dubai-style run (i.e. default, not sell lol) increases when market crash.. such a run will be devastating for Spore and Sporeans

    so to lock in more foreign $$ here, just lower LTV hehe.. bcos even the very rich relies on leverage and not everyone will pay full in cash
    Last edited by august; 11-01-11 at 09:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    Sell to who? Who will buy in a downturn? Who can absorb all the properties in a downturn? Look at volume transacted during downturns. It is very little....

    Let say foreigner A buy $1mil condo from developer. $1mil come inside Singapore.
    Market crash. Foreigner A need money, sell 700k to another foreigner B. Foreigner A take 700k out of Singapore banking system. Net 300k still left in Singapore system.
    So do you think government want to welcome foreigner A's money?
    if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further
    but hor, i dun feel hot monies arrived in SG leh......dun see much news on big fund buying up luxury homes.....more such news in 2007 leh

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    if thats how everyone here feels than i wont argue further
    I don't represent everyone .
    It is just that the volume of transactions and mortgagee sales are low even during downturns. Property prices are "sticky" downwards.

    Even Goldman Sachs and 1 other company (forgot who - the one who own hostel) sell their commercial properties in 2009/10. And not during downturn.

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    is that a "given" that immigration policy will change after GE ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    but hor, i dun feel hot monies arrived in SG leh......dun see much news on big fund buying up luxury homes.....more such news in 2007 leh
    actually i still not able to figure out how will the hot $$ flow to Spore. Understand that US is printing 600b of US dollars but how this 600b translate to hot money and flow to Asia?

    my tot is:
    1) US print $$
    2) The $$ will flow to the bank?
    3) The bank will loan to investment company to invest
    4) Investment firm will invest in Asia property?

    Care to share??

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    is that a "given" that immigration policy will change after GE ?
    the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.

    according to MBT, everything is about the election.
    Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
    I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.

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    With inflation also comes increasing GDP, property prices increase (making >90% happier is better than making <10% happier, since Singapore is a democratic country where votes still counts), then come salary and bonus increase! Voila!

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.

    according to MBT, everything is about the election.
    Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
    I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    With inflation also comes increasing GDP, property prices increase (making >90% happier is better than making <10% happier, since Singapore is a democratic country where votes still counts), then come salary and bonus increase! Voila!
    If you are right then these will happen :

    Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.

    Their salaries remain same as now.

    Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.

    Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.

    Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?

    Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.

    The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??

    If not, why and what is main culprit.


    They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.

    BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wenqing
    If you are right then these will happen :

    Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.

    Their salaries remain same as now.

    Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.

    Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.

    Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?

    Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.

    The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??

    If not, why and what is main culprit.


    They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.

    BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!
    It will happen whether we wish it or not
    so what do we do? be financially smart.
    start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
    don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago .
    So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
    Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
    or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
    Last edited by hopeful; 12-01-11 at 06:00.

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    Isn't it already happening already?
    20 years ago a new HDB 5rm flat of 13xx sqft costs $90k.
    Now a new HDB 5rm flat of 11xx sqft (smaller size some more!) costs $350k-600k !
    20 years ago a fresh graduate earns about $1500 pm.
    Now a fresh graduate earns about $3000 pm.
    Income doubled (2x) over about 20 years, but new HDB flats increased by 3.9x to 6.7x !
    Let's take another 20 years from now and we should see the same happening again.
    What can you do constructively to remedy the above?
    Well I can't do anything to remedy the above, but I can earn more money through all sort of investments, including leaving behind a few properties that have long-term value for my children and grand-children, some to live in and some to collect rental (so that they don't have worry about housing costs).
    Think we should be seeing the first $1m HDB flat within 10 years time!

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    It will happen whether we wish it or not
    so what do we do? be financially smart.
    start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
    don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago .
    So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
    Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
    or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by wenqing
    If you are right then these will happen :

    Your children and grandchildren will be paying SGD 1 million dollars for a HDB 3-room flat and SGD 500,000 dollars for a Toyota Vios.

    Their salaries remain same as now.

    Salaries can never beat inflation. Controlling inflation is better than raising salaries.

    Our grandparents's and parents time took 10-15 years to fully pay off flat, our time now even have 40 years housing loan.

    Last time, a normal job like clerk also can buy car like Toyota Corolla but now same job same car, no longer possible. Why?

    Grandparents and parents time, taxi driver also can raise 5 kids.Presently now you try that, the taxi driver will jump MRT.

    The entire world improve on material wealth but is life easier compare to the previous generations ??

    If not, why and what is main culprit.


    They cannot support you so let you register in Old Age Home alone and rot there.

    BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    the immigration policy was changed before GE, due to the action of vocal minorities. After GE, the immigration policy will be back to normal.

    according to MBT, everything is about the election.
    Lucky that election is only once every 4 years. so just need to take of vocal minority once every 4 years. The rest of the 3 years, government can concentrate on welcoming FWs, increasing population, increase prices, etc.
    I like inflation, property prices will automatically up due to inflation.
    The majority of those people I know do not want to be a minority in their homeland and are complainig about FT influx and associated problems.

    It's a political suicide not to change long term policy so even after the election I doubt immigration policy is going to be as easy as before.

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    I truly feel sori for the young generation.
    if u read The Straits Times yesterday, u will realise, it is the Chinese from mainland scrolling the top results, turning a F9 in English to A1 in two years.
    Our younger generation has never been hungry before, how are they going to compete in 10 years down the road ? they will just blame the garment for not taking care of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hovivi
    The majority of those people I know do not want to be a minority in their homeland and are complainig about FT influx and associated problems.

    It's a political suicide not to change long term policy so even after the election I doubt immigration policy is going to be as easy as before.
    Who wants to be a minority anywhere? Be it minority Coptic church in Egypt. Minority Tamils in Sri Lanka, or minority Christian in Iraq.

    Why do you think it is political suicide? So many walkovers. Opposition parties are fragmented. Even those parties that are for restricitive immigration policies like in Europe, Australia, they do not formed the government of that countries. Please don't tell me Uniquely Singapore again (where Singapore is unique, OCR=CCR), but that's another matter in another thread).

    Please put yourselves in government shoes for once. Think of Singapore as a body corporate and all policies makes sense. Prosperity of the nation is more vital to the prosperity of any one individual.

    Its hard being a leader. No matter what he do, the followers sure complaint. This not fair, that no fair. In fact, got one smart aleck commented "the only way to be fair to everybody is to treat everybody unfairly".
    Pay me million dollar salary and the rest of you eat dust, fair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    It will happen whether we wish it or not
    so what do we do? be financially smart.
    start investing early. educate your kids on finance and investment.
    don't leave it too late. By the way, not asking you to blame your parents or grandparents for not educating you early or for not buying many landed properties instead of HDB or Toyota Corolla 40 years ago .
    So choose your weapon of choice to beat inflation, be it properties, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.
    Stop whining and start doing something about it. For starters, start writing to ST and your MPs asking government to drop the price of kopi-o, also ask them to drop taxi fare, bus fare, mrt fare. If that doesn't get results, then better start reading up on investment books.
    or in worst case scenario, migrate to Japan, deflation over there.
    Individuals can only do so much with personal investments.

    Besides even investment returns these days cannot beat inflation.

    Government is the one with most resources and information and controls everything, it is most well positioned to control inflation.

    If the free flowing immigration continues, restricted supply of flats continue, agencies like ICA, HDB, LTA, URA never talk to each other,Singaporeans will continued to be screwed.

    Jobs will remain limited and land can only be so much in Singapore. These 5 years, government is the biggest culprit for inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    Who wants to be a minority anywhere? Be it minority Coptic church in Egypt. Minority Tamils in Sri Lanka, or minority Christian in Iraq.

    Why do you think it is political suicide? So many walkovers. Opposition parties are fragmented. Even those parties that are for restricitive immigration policies like in Europe, Australia, they do not formed the government of that countries. Please don't tell me Uniquely Singapore again (where Singapore is unique, OCR=CCR), but that's another matter in another thread).

    Please put yourselves in government shoes for once. Think of Singapore as a body corporate and all policies makes sense. Prosperity of the nation is more vital to the prosperity of any one individual.

    Its hard being a leader. No matter what he do, the followers sure complaint. This not fair, that no fair. In fact, got one smart aleck commented "the only way to be fair to everybody is to treat everybody unfairly".
    Pay me million dollar salary and the rest of you eat dust, fair?
    Most people feel other political parties have improved and become more professional e.g. Workers Party.

    If Singaporeans willing to give other political parties a chance like how PAP was given a chance back in 1960s when it was still an Opposition party, then policies can change.

    This election, Wanbao already said all areas will be contested. Major internet forums also say the same thing. No more walkovers, a sign of political progress.

    http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=3020012


    Prosperity of a nation depends on the prosperity of individuals. Not just civil servants.

    http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/sh....php?t=3059750


    Managing a country like how a company is manage seems a refreshing idea 20 years ago but now we see the disastrous results of it.

    I prefer going back to basics and behaving like a country rather than company.

    Singaporeans have no identity, no sense of belonging, no sense of home. Entire Singapore is like a hotel. This is what happens when a country behave like a company.

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    No, I don't agree.
    Govt can do what they want with their policies etc.
    We can do what we want with our money.

    E.g.:
    - Govt depreciate currency, we change to other currencies that can appreciate.
    - Govt policies results in inflation and make property prices rise, then we buy properties first and benefit from price rise.
    We can always benefit from whatever they do! Just need to move faster! It is the same everywhere! You either beat them or you get beaten by them.
    - Singapore land too small and too crowded or you don't like their policies, simple - just migrate to other countries that you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by wenqing
    Individuals can only do so much with personal investments.

    Besides even investment returns these days cannot beat inflation.

    Government is the one with most resources and information and controls everything, it is most well positioned to control inflation.

    If the free flowing immigration continues, restricted supply of flats continue, agencies like ICA, HDB, LTA, URA never talk to each other,Singaporeans will continued to be screwed.

    Jobs will remain limited and land can only be so much in Singapore. These 5 years, government is the biggest culprit for inflation.

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