Junior
im alrdy viewing some units 58k cheaper off transact price. but again stuck for 4yrs, dont make this game any attractive especially for us who made and cash out alrdy.Originally Posted by rattydrama
ask urself, u made few hundred Ks..
seeing such current situation, do u buy back to get stuck with loan,rules and cash pump back in again..? do u..?
Senior
landed i think have cheong way too much. those URA charts will show. now the buyers have to come up with 40% cash plus a big chunk on reno. a thorough landed reno, is easily 150k. if rebuild, the amount is easily 5x that.ya...see anything gd comes by...i bio ocr landed as well....
i think you'll get a chance.
Exalted
actually ltv no effect for me unless it drop to 40% ltv...hehe...i oni take 50% for resale/completed ppty
but well, u made a vy gd point...
so now hot monies flow to whr??? stocks? commodities? i dun mind silver bubble too
Junior
depends on psf and location... i don't rule out buying if it is a good deal.....
Senior
if there's no global crisis, i don't think prices will experience major corrections. it'll stagnate there in broad terms as both sellers withdraw their units and buyers stop hunting, resulting in an impasse. they'll be pockets of opportunities arising from a some panic sellers of course, just like in Sep.
Exalted
hope so...i made a big mistake last yr..miss landed boat....sian la...landed prices up the most so far since last yr bottom...haiz
Newbie
Good. Please do that. BBs are waiting for shortists like you. Most the property counters are cornered by deep pockets.
Senior
hopefully the boat will come back to where you were waiting for it previously.hope so...i made a big mistake last yr..miss landed boat....sian la...landed prices up the most so far since last yr bottom...haiz
we live in very interesting times:
1) low interest rates
2) Strong cooling measures
3) Very strong sales of MM units
4) Overnight queues at EC
Last edited by kane; 13-01-11 at 23:59.
Just my 2 cent worth..
When the boat come back, do u dare to board?
Senior
No risk no gain.When the boat come back, do u dare to board?
Senior
That'll separate the men from the boys. Whether smart or not is only apparent with the benefit of hindsight.When the boat come back, do u dare to board?
Junior
Well guys, let me have the balls enough to say I was wrong.
Thought that the Singapore would welcome all that foreign money into properties.
I thought wrong. So I am not as smart as I think I am.
I think those who have no holding power, better get out while you can.
The next recession is going to happen soon.
1) lose job
2) rental down - cannot cover mortgage
3) valuation down - top up
4) SSD.
the joker card is - interest may or may not go up.
If interest rates goes up during crisis, the shit will hit the fan.
Of course, I have been proven not to be that accurate a forecaster.
Junior
dont think owners can get out anytime.. is easy to buy a hse but difficult to sell.. unless in a 2007 market. selling your OTP is good enuffWell guys, let me have the balls enough to say I was wrong.
Thought that the Singapore would welcome all that foreign money into properties.
I thought wrong. So I am not as smart as I think I am.
I think those who have no holding power, better get out while you can.
The next recession is going to happen soon.
1) lose job
2) rental down - cannot cover mortgage
3) valuation down - top up
4) SSD.
the joker card is - interest may or may not go up.
If interest rates goes up during crisis, the shit will hit the fan.
Of course, I have been proven not to be that accurate a forecaster
Exalted
mabe SG govt vy confident lor....they believe hot monies will still flows in...they want to retain more hot monies tats all...Well guys, let me have the balls enough to say I was wrong.
Thought that the Singapore would welcome all that foreign money into properties.
I thought wrong. So I am not as smart as I think I am.
I think those who have no holding power, better get out while you can.
The next recession is going to happen soon.
1) lose job
2) rental down - cannot cover mortgage
3) valuation down - top up
4) SSD.
the joker card is - interest may or may not go up.
If interest rates goes up during crisis, the shit will hit the fan.
Of course, I have been proven not to be that accurate a forecaster
i still tink the SSD really HIONG!
any1 knows wats the latest SSD for china/HK right now?
Junior
Ah, finally remember what you said. In case you miss my business proposal at another thread.
Actually I am waiting for bomb to go off in Orchard Road. According to you, price will drop to 1970s level, I propose instead of you selling at 1970s level, I will buy your property holdings at 1986 level one month after a bomb explode at Orchard Road. We use URA index for discount factor ya. Sounds fair?
Exalted
HiongX3 SSD gona impact CCR n ltv gona impact ocr.... No winners in 2011
Newbie
Looks like LR owners are really stuck this time: http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...&postcount=503
Nobody mentioned what happens when:
1. Interest rates increase
2. Foreign funds pullback
Clearly, the government's measures are aimed at limiting new purchases, especially from foreign funds/investors who are the culprits of our inflated economy. Due to the carry trade and the low interest rates environments, many investors today are short-term and want to get out before the conditions reverse against their favor. No investor in the right mind will borrow cheap USD and wait 4yrs for USD to appreciate (they will have to return more if that happens) or interest rates to go up. So, this will really deter foreign funds/investors from messing up our property market.
Let's not be in denial and argue that the measures will not affect HDB, CCR, larger transactions (>3m), MM, or rentals. You know somehow they will be affected as the property market (or even economy) functions as a whole.
Sometimes, it's better for prices to fall than to stagnate, especially in a grossly inflated market. Just like China, it may be better for Singapore to release some air from the bubble and hold it in the mid-high level (hopefully) until the situation is somewhat clearer. So if the bubble really bursts (due to external/non-governmental circumstances), it would have a smaller effect on a larger number of people who would have bought more properties in the longer run. The government's latest effort, though a little late, is firm and definitive. You can tell from the huge leap in SSD that the government is desperate to put that into order. What I'm trying to say here is that it may be the government's intention for prices to drop with the newly implemented measures.
There was a sharp rise in new and resale homes in the previous month (Dec 2010). No doubt that could have prompted the government to act now.fair enough... agreed that prices going up too quickly is unhealthy, not good for the property market in the long run... Though not against property investors, but flippers...
If they buy cheap, they don't necessarily have to sell cheap. So let them all buy high high and wait long long for their returns
If that's the case, rentals should fall since there's now a bigger supply.
Newbie
MEASURES TO MAINTAIN A STABLE AND SUSTAINABLE PROPERTY MARKET
1** The Government announced today the following measures to maintain a stable and sustainable property market:
a)*Increase the holding period for imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) from the current three years to four years;
b)*Raise the SSD rates to 16%, 12%, 8% and 4% of consideration for residential properties which are bought on or after 14 January 2011, and are sold in the first, second, third and fourth year of purchase respectively;
c)*Lower the Loan-To-Value (LTV) limit to 50% on housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS for property purchasers who are not individuals1; and
d)*Lower the LTV limit on housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS from 70% to 60% for property purchasers who are individuals with one or more outstanding housing loans2 at the time of the new housing purchase.
The measures will take effect on 14 January 2011.
2** The Government's objective is to ensure a stable and sustainable property market where prices move in line with economic fundamentals. Previous Government measures have to some extent moderated the market, but sentiments remain buoyant. Low interest rates plus excessive liquidity in the financial system, both in Singapore and globally, could cause prices to rise beyond sustainable levels based on economic fundamentals. Moreover, when interest rates eventually rise, it could strain purchasers who have overextended themselves financially. Therefore, the Government has decided to introduce additional targeted measures to cool the property market and encourage greater financial prudence among property purchasers.
*
Extending the Holding Period for Imposition of Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) on Residential Properties from 3 Years to 4 Years & Raising the SSD Rates
3** Currently, for residential properties bought on or after 30 August 2010, SSD3 is imposed on the sale of such properties within three years of purchase. This followed the introduction of SSD for residential properties bought on or after 20 February 2010.
4** The SSD rates will be increased sharply from 14 January 2011, so as to provide a strong disincentive for investors looking to make short term gains. The holding period for imposition of SSD will also be extended from the current three years to four years. The impact of the SSD is especially significant as it is payable regardless whether the property is eventually sold at a gain or loss.
5** Specifically, for residential properties bought4 on or after 14 January 2011, the SSD rates to be levied on the full consideration will be increased5 to as follows:
a)*SSD at 16% (higher than up to 3% currently), if the property is sold in the first year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for 1 year or less from its purchase date.*
b)*SSD at 12% (higher than up to 2% currently), if the property is sold in the second year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 1 year and up to 2 years.
c)*SSD at 8% (higher than up to 1% currently), if the property is sold in the third year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 2 years and up to 3 years.
d)*SSD at 4% (no SSD currently), if the property is sold in the fourth year of purchase, i.e. the property is held for more than 3 years and up to 4 years.
6** The extended SSD will not affect HDB lessees as the required Minimum Occupation Period for HDB flats is 5 years.
7** IRAS will be releasing an updated e-tax guide on the circumstances under which SSD will apply and the procedures for paying SSD6. The e-tax guide will be available at www.iras.gov.sg. Taxpayers with enquiries may call IRAS at 6351 3697 or 6351 3698.
Lower the Loan-To-Value (LTV) Limit to 50% on housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS for residential property purchasers who are not individuals
8** With effect from 14 January 20117, an LTV limit of 50% will apply to all residential property purchasers who are not individuals. This includes corporations, trusts and collective investment schemes, among others.* The 50% LTV limit for housing loans will also apply to joint property purchases by an individual and a purchaser who is not an individual.
Lower the LTV limit on housing loans granted by financial institutions regulated by MAS from the current 70% to 60% for residential property purchasers who are individuals with one or more outstanding housing loans at the time of the new housing purchase
9** The LTV limit is lowered from 70% to 60% with effect from 14 January 20118 for borrowers who are individuals and have one or more outstanding housing loans (whether from HDB or a financial institution regulated by MAS) at the time of applying for a housing loan for the new property purchase.
10* *However, borrowers who can show evidence that they have sold their existing properties will not be subject to the lower LTV limit when they buy a new property. Where the existing property is a private property, he can show a signed Sale & Purchase (S&P) agreement with the IRAS certificate showing that stamp duty has been paid on it.* Where the existing property is a HDB flat, he can show HDB’s approval letter to sell the flat, that HDB will issue within 2 weeks of the First Appointment.* These borrowers will still be able to borrow at an 80% LTV from financial institutions.
11** Borrowers without any outstanding housing loans continue to have a LTV cap of 80%.*
12** These rules apply to housing loans granted by financial institutions for private residential properties, Executive Condominiums, HUDC flats and HDB flats (including DBSS flats).
13* *Loans granted by HDB for HDB flats (including DBSS flats) will still have a LTV cap of 90%. HDB loans are offered to eligible Singapore citizens buying their first homes or right-sizing their flats to meet their housing needs. HDB loan applicants are required to utilise all the balance in their CPF Ordinary Account before HDB loans will be granted.* Furthermore, those taking a second concessionary HDB loan must use the CPF refund and 50% of the cash proceeds from the sale of their previous flat before they are granted an HDB loan. This is to ensure that eligible buyers, especially first-time buyers, purchase public housing in a financially prudent manner.
Adequate Supply in the Pipeline
14** There is an ample supply of private residential units and buyers need not rush to buy now. The Government will continue to ensure an adequate supply of housing to meet demand.
15** The annual average take-up9 of private residential units between 2007 and 2010 is about 12,700 units. Thus far, the sites awarded under the Government Land Sales (GLS) Programme in 2010 will already yield about 13,300 units. In the GLS Programme for the first half of 2011, we will make available sites that can yield about 14,300 private housing units, of which about 8,100 units will be from sites on the Confirmed List.
16** As at 3Q2010, there were about 64,400 uncompleted units of private housing from projects in the pipeline10. Of these, about 33,800 units were still unsold. This is equivalent to about 3 years of supply based on the average annual take-up over the last 4 years. The 33,800 unsold units in the pipeline comprised 3,300 units that had been launched for sale by developers and 11,400 units which had the pre-requisite conditions for sale11 and could be launched for sale immediately. The remaining 19,100 units with planning approvals did not have the pre-requisite conditions for sale but these could be obtained quickly from the Government12. The Government will also make available more supply in future GLS programmes. Buyers should bear in mind this supply in the pipeline when deciding whether to buy now.
17** The Government will continue to monitor the property market closely and take further steps to promote a stable and sustainable property market if necessary.
Issued by the Ministry of National Development, Ministry of Finance and Monetary Authority of Singapore
13 January 2011
1"Purchasers who are not individuals” refer to purchasers who are not natural persons. These include but are not limited to corporations, trusts and collective investment schemes.
2Financial institutions are required to conduct checks with HDB and with one or more credit bureaus on whether the purchaser has an outstanding housing loan at the time of applying for a housing loan for the property purchase. For joint purchasers, if either purchaser has an outstanding housing loan, the joint purchasers will be considered as having an outstanding housing loan.*
3The SSD will apply to the transfer or disposal of interest (including sale and gifts) of residential lands and residential units (whether completed or uncompleted).
4The date of purchase for computation of the holding period for SSD shall be the date when a buyer (i.e. Buyer A) exercises the option to purchase the property, or signs the sale and purchase agreement, whichever is earlier. The date of sale of the property shall be the date when the subsequent buyer (i.e. Buyer B) exercises the option to purchase the property from Buyer A, or signs the sale and purchase agreement, whichever is earlier.
5Currently, the SSD rates are levied at the same rate as buyer's stamp duty, i.e. 1% for the first $180,000, 2% for the next $180,000 and 3% on the balance. The SSD rates are tiered according to the duration of the holding period, i.e. the seller pays the full SSD rate if the residential property is sold in the first year of purchase; 2/3 the full SSD rate if the sale is in the second year; 1/3 the full SSD rate if in the third year.
6SSD is to be paid within 14 days of the execution of the Agreement (i.e. exercise of Option or signing of Agreement). If the Agreement is executed overseas, upon receipt of the Agreement in Singapore, the SSD must be paid within 30 days.
7The 50% LTV limit will apply to transactions where the date on which the option to purchase (OTP) was granted falls on or after 14 January 2011; or if there is no OTP, where the date of the Sale & Purchase agreement falls on or after 14 January 2011.*
8The 60% LTV limit will apply to transactions where the date on which the option to purchase (OTP) was granted falls on or after 14 January 2011; or if there is no OTP, where the date of the Sale & Purchase agreement falls on or after 14 January 2011.*
9Take-up refers to the number of private residential units, including Executive Condominium (EC) units, sold by developers.
10These refer to new development and redevelopment projects with planning approvals, i.e. either a Provisional Permission (PP) or Written Permission (WP).
11These refer to private residential developments with Housing Developer Licence and Building Plan Approval. Under the Housing Developer (Control and Licensing) Act, a sale licence must be obtained for a project with more than 4 units, if the developer intends to sell uncompleted residential units in the development. However, the sale of the residential units can only commence with the approval of the building plans of the development.
12These refer to uncompleted private residential developments without pre-requisites for sale but with WP or PP granted. The sale licences could be obtained within 5 working days and building plan approvals could be obtained within 7 working days from the date of application for cases where clearances from various technical agencies are obtained and relevant documents are in order during formal submissions.
Newbie
Ok. Looks like propertism will be back in fashion!
Only BUY, never SELL!
Newbie
See lah? Tell you all dun speculate liao, you all never listen. Now cry liao right?
Buy property to STAY. Buy property to invest, ie rental return.
DO NOT BUY PROPERTY TO MAKE QUICK BUCK!!!!
Newbie
Think i won't short tomorrow. I will buy instead.
Newbie
Wait to drop until stable first.....
Newbie
Yes. Correct. Buyers waiting although sellers reasonable.
Dun worry, in fact with these measures, buyers are more certain to commit or not. Genuine self stay folks would still bite.
It's buy for self stay now. Newly weds main target, new families main target. Hdb up graders main target. But can hold 1 at a time only. No more cash if holding two.
Newbie
Well they still succeed.. Heng to shit or something like that. Now repeated here.How coincidence!.... i remember their Viva Vista was launch juz before Aug 2010 measures... their launch agents surely have to put in double efforts
Newbie
No risk, no Pain
Big risk, big Pain.
Go for Smallest Unit
You are lucky... Can still run.
First time buyer and buy CCR studio for what? Get a hdb EC and have it fully paid better right?
Very sad evening for me.
I just rang up my agent and told her that I am cancelling the purchase of a studio unit at The Clift that I had just bought last week. 1% deposit already paid last week. Supposed to exercise the option on the coming Monday. I have been shopping for the last one 1 year and finally just decided last week to realise my dream as a property owner.
I was not worried about the LTV (cos I am a first time buyer) or even the SSD (cos I can actually exercise my option tonight at the lawyer's). But I decided to forgo my 1% deposit due to the following reasons:
1) I bought a studio unit in Shenton area. So very clear cut, it's for investment/speculation reasons only. My next buyer (say... even 4 years later) is likely to be an investor as well, cos it is extremely unlikely for a genuine long-stayer to move his whole family into a studio unit in Shenton. So, will the next buyer be willing to also hold for 4 years? Unlikely. Well, he might - but only if the price is really cheap.
2) This cooling measure was the most dreconian ever. Remember when Shanghai imposed the 15% SD 2 months ago, property sales volume plunged by 80% in the next 2 months?
3) Prices are very likely to drop, or at best stagnate, after these new cooling measures. I am now going to target at least a 2-bedder in RCR (my budget cannot get a 2-bedder in prime area anymore). That will give me a larger investment window because the next buyer can very likely be a long-stayer rather than a speculator.
4) If the market turns during the older times, I can still afford the 3% SSD. But if market should turn within the next year, wah piang how to find 16% to pay iras, or pay for the margin call?
5) To begin with, I bought the unit at an "ok" price only, not that it was a fantastic price. It was actually a sub-sub-sale unit, right before T.O.P.
6) I think with the CPF i have on hand, can invest back in to equities, since the equity market is going well now.
7) The rest of the cash on hand can buy London property, or KLCC, or even some good buys in the States. Places where cooling measures are not in operation (well, at least not yet).
Haii... the new round of cooling measure really kill speculators la.. Well, at least it had an effect on me.
Go for Smallest Unit
Very good point!
Look at it this way. F30 always forward price their projects and give about 16 percent discount. I think they could still give 20 percent if they want (take away agent com, show flat, cut law fee, marketing etc). Which leads me to think that these measures are targeted at arresting it.
Now first time buyers have to choose hdb over EC or condo. Since hdb cannot buy if u own condo, most would target new hdb. Then u have some die die want condo, they should then go for new ones.
Next u have this group of condo stayed wanna be. What would they get? Resale EC, older condo, ready built OCR condo or even OCR building under construction BUC one. Since got 4 years to hold without penalty. It makes good sense to go for BUC, sell upon top if dun like the unit or things turn bad.
Now u have to look at pricing. How to price? It would be in accordance wit their affordability and income level. They are to be priced out of hdb and assuming dual income of 10k. They should be able to afford 3k monthly contribution from CPF jointly. You then have to look their cash portion. They should be able to come up with at least 50k in cash. Guess their age now. Should be around early thirties the bext. Next you have forward it and count their max loan tenure, that is what they can afford. Lower it if they have a lower risk appetite. They should be able to afford around 850k to 1 million properties comfortably. That is the pricing range u have to look for if u r selling. Cannot ask for too much.
The new cooling measures means coming up with 5% + 15% + stamp duty 3% - 5400. then u have look at the punitive part of 4 yrs. Have to fork out about 16% if they have to sell and assuming 1 to 1.5% agent fee. They are actually out of pocket by 40 percent. So logically, to put them on even ground with flippers, u make the LTV at equivalent 60% max for retail borrowers. Make sense?
Now it's not the time to buy. Wait and buy ready built condo when u can see and accept it as is where is. You will not be affected by SSD if u dun need to sell. But you must let the dust settle first. Which is about 6 mths. Can start shopping again thereafter.
Go for Smallest Unit
Forums are so addictive. The more you posts the more u want to come back. I will take a break now and cure myself of this addition. Anyway nothing much to say anymore since it is going down down down before up.
Bye bye!
Senior
I have this feeling that the government is also preparing to contain inflation this year. The main course is interest rate which will whack all borrowers, and these property measures for pte properties are just the appetisers to prevent over-borrowing.
I sell Cheese Pie
Way down man....Forums are so addictive. The more you posts the more u want to come back. I will take a break now and cure myself of this addition. Anyway nothing much to say anymore since it is going down down down before up.
Bye bye!
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