buying a property with tenancy

[plastic]

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

[Laguna]

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

check the inventory list first
technically, sell with tenancy, the buyer will take over everything in the house unless there is special arrangement with the seller

[westman]

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

When buying, do asked for inventory list if you are taking over all household inventories or taking over tenancy.

Did your agent ensure this was done?

[teddybear]

Whatever that belongs to the previous owner now belongs to you (simple as that). Whatever rights and obligations in the tenancy agreement that belongs to the previous owner also now hand over to you. Whatever that belongs to the previous owner but are being damaged by the tenants, ask the tenants to pay for it. Now you are the owner of this property, previous owner has nothing to do with it. Congrats on your purchase!

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

[thomastansb]

In most cases, yes. Those will be pass on to you and belongs to you.

Lawfully, no. After the lease expires, these furnitures etc will lawfully belongs to your seller. Remember, option says sell house with tenancy. Never put sell house with tenancy + furnitures. Unless it is written somewhere but I doubt so. No one will put furnitures go to who after selling the house in the tenancy agreement.

But market practice is all goes to buyer. Just don't confuse market practice with lawfully. Market practice says all go to you. Lawfully, the seller can take it back. Ask your lawyer to write a confirmation to be sure.

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

[teddybear]

Mmm, is this so? My understanding is that if you take over the tenancy where all the furniture are listed in the inventory attached to the tenancy agreement, you inherit everything. Ok, need to consult lawyer.

In most cases, yes. Those will be pass on to you and belongs to you.

Lawfully, no. After the lease expires, these furnitures etc will lawfully belongs to your seller. Remember, option says sell house with tenancy. Never put sell house with tenancy + furnitures. Unless it is written somewhere but I doubt so. No one will put furnitures go to who after selling the house in the tenancy agreement.

But market practice is all goes to buyer. Just don't confuse market practice with lawfully. Market practice says all go to you. Lawfully, the seller can take it back. Ask your lawyer to write a confirmation to be sure.

[proud owner]

Mmm, is this so? My understanding is that if you take over the tenancy where all the furniture are listed in the inventory attached to the tenancy agreement, you inherit everything. Ok, need to consult lawyer.

i thought so too

selling with tenancy .. including everything as it is ...

kind of silly if seller move furnitures out ...then tenant how ? L L now no more furniture?

its a common understanding i believe

if go to court and fight ..will judge says ..return to seller ??
cos sell with tenancy = + tenant

if no furnshing ..then tenant wont stay there .. = no tenant = not selling with tenancy

but its good to check with lawyer

scarly the furitures are from the tenant ... and you think your buying price incl furnitures (which you wont get)

[thomastansb]

Yeah. I didn't know until my lawyer enlighten me. Many years back though. What she said was (something along that line):-

Tenancy agreement - Yes. It runs until it finish. Next buyer has to honour that. Option shows as Sell with Tenancy. However, furnitures (+ anything movable) are never in the sales agreement (option). The furnitures are just there to facilitate (I remember she use this word) the tenancy agreement. Once the agreement expires, the furnitures belong to the one who sign the agreement. That is under the law. The only way to go around is to put Sale of unit with Tenancy Agreement WITH all furnitures. She might be wrong but I feel should have black and white because it is really ambiguous.

Curtains etc are consider inmovable so it stays with the unit.

Mmm, is this so? My understanding is that if you take over the tenancy where all the furniture are listed in the inventory attached to the tenancy agreement, you inherit everything. Ok, need to consult lawyer.

[Regulators]

In the OTP, you can either sell with or without furniture. If unit is sold without furniture, the ex-owner can theoretically take back the furniture, but the price of the furniture is usually factored into the selling price already.

Yeah. I didn't know until my lawyer enlighten me. Many years back though. What she said was (something along that line):-

Tenancy agreement - Yes. It runs until it finish. Next buyer has to honour that. Option shows as Sell with Tenancy. However, furnitures (+ anything movable) are never in the sales agreement (option). The furnitures are just there to facilitate (I remember she use this word) the tenancy agreement. Once the agreement expires, the furnitures belong to the one who sign the agreement. That is under the law. The only way to go around is to put Sale of unit with Tenancy Agreement WITH all furnitures. She might be wrong but I feel should have black and white because it is really ambiguous.

Curtains etc are consider inmovable so it stays with the unit.

[thomastansb]

Yup, just make sure to get a black and white from the lawyer and you won't go wrong. Better to be safe than sorry in such cases.

In the OTP, you can either sell with or without furniture. If unit is sold without furniture, the ex-owner can theoretically take back the furniture, but the price of the furniture is usually factored into the selling price already.

[westman]

Yeah. I didn't know until my lawyer enlighten me. Many years back though. What she said was (something along that line):-

Tenancy agreement - Yes. It runs until it finish. Next buyer has to honour that. Option shows as Sell with Tenancy. However, furnitures (+ anything movable) are never in the sales agreement (option). The furnitures are just there to facilitate (I remember she use this word) the tenancy agreement. Once the agreement expires, the furnitures belong to the one who sign the agreement. That is under the law. The only way to go around is to put Sale of unit with Tenancy Agreement WITH all furnitures. She might be wrong but I feel should have black and white because it is really ambiguous.

Curtains etc are consider inmovable so it stays with the unit.

Play safe better even though it's market practices.
I bought my first private with tenancy (with balance of nine months to go) and my agent insist to take down the inventory list in the OTP stated selling with furnitures even though the seller agent said market practise does include furnitures without written down in contracts.

Better be safe than sorry.

[Geylang OKT]

Sell with tenancy, all fixtures and fittings included lah

[romeo]

so if the seller previously fix the toilet bowl for the tenant, can he take back?

[Geylang OKT]

so if the seller previously fix the toilet bowl for the tenant, can he take back?

No. As is, where is. Anyway that is a fixture as well. Fittings are arguable, e.g. (vacant possesion will take away, with tenancy belongs to the new owner).

[silver023]

Yeah. I didn't know until my lawyer enlighten me. Many years back though. What she said was (something along that line):-

Tenancy agreement - Yes. It runs until it finish. Next buyer has to honour that. Option shows as Sell with Tenancy. However, furnitures (+ anything movable) are never in the sales agreement (option). The furnitures are just there to facilitate (I remember she use this word) the tenancy agreement. Once the agreement expires, the furnitures belong to the one who sign the agreement. That is under the law. The only way to go around is to put Sale of unit with Tenancy Agreement WITH all furnitures. She might be wrong but I feel should have black and white because it is really ambiguous.

Curtains etc are consider inmovable so it stays with the unit.

I think technically, you are able to terminate the lease if your option states you buy the property with "vacant possession". Even if buy with "existing tenancy", the tenancy agreement would state that the landlord (seller) must arrange for lease agreement to be novated to the new owner (i.e. transferred to the name of new owner). This novation is not often done by seller, probably due to costs involved. Without a novated lease agreement, the new owner is technically (in my opinion) not bound by the lease agreement.

Nonetheless, 'common law' aims to make things equitable between the various parties, so I suppose it may take a 'substance over form' approach e.g. new owner continues to collect rent even though no lease agreement between him/her and the tenant, so both are willing parties to the lease arrangement, which should then be a valid arrangement.

I'm not lawyer but those are just my thoughts.

Plastic, I might consider things like lights, air-conditioner, in-built oven, etc as fixtures and therefore covered in your OTP. So you are the rightful owner. For other moveable items, the previous owner would have specifically identified items he/she wanted them back after the lease expires. Assuming your OTP is a sale with existing tenancy agreement, get a copy of the agreement including the inventory page. Everything there should probably be yours... I won't bother asking as owners usually write-off stuff in tenanted units. However, if there's a 100" LED TV or B&O sound system, then maybe just tell your lawyer to confirm this with seller lawyer. Lawyers these days are not fully utilized. Any doubts, just ask them to confirm for you.

[thomastansb]

Bottom line, ask your lawyer to check. No conflict in future

[plastic]

yeah, I will check with my lawyer. Thank you everyone, you have been most helpful

[gap969]

Hi all, I just bought an apartment with tenancy that expires in June. There are some appliances and fixtures that belong to the seller in the apartment, like washer, dryer, lightings and etc, which are all in the lease agreement. So my question is, will I need to return all these to the seller when lease expires in June? Appreciate your reply in this. Thank you all.

Furnishing aside, did you get the 2 months deposit transfered over?

[plastic]

My lawyer says property is sold with tenancy, and the inventory list of items belonging to seller is in tenancy, so lock, stock and barrel sold to me.

Two months rental deposit will also be transferred to me at completion.

[Geylang OKT]

My lawyer says property is sold with tenancy, and the inventory list of items belonging to seller is in tenancy, so lock, stock and barrel sold to me.

Two months rental deposit will also be transferred to me at completion.

Great and Amen!

Sell with tenancy, all fixtures and fittings included lah

[rattydrama]

My lawyer says property is sold with tenancy, and the inventory list of items belonging to seller is in tenancy, so lock, stock and barrel sold to me.

Two months rental deposit will also be transferred to me at completion.

Great to hear that. was wondering if the lawyer make provision if the furniture and appliances are on rental basis? the rental company will take it back when lease expire.

[Regulators]

i have never heard of landlords getting furniture and appliances on hire purchase for tenants to use, they usually buy 2nd hand furniture for tenants

Great to hear that. was wondering if the lawyer make provision if the furniture and appliances are on rental basis? the rental company will take it back when lease expire.

[rattydrama]

i have never heard of landlords getting furniture and appliances on hire purchase for tenants to use, they usually buy 2nd hand furniture for tenants

never hard but does exist. for corporate tenant.

[Geylang OKT]

never hard but does exist. for corporate tenant.

Items and furniture bought on h/p for rental do exist lah, but not so common

[land118]

Items and furniture bought on h/p for rental do exist lah, but not so common

if furniture on h/p, likely from COURTS.

[Geylang OKT]

if furniture on h/p, likely from COURTS.

maybe they are repossessed furniture?