Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 65

Thread: So it's goodbye to paper-thin walls at showflats, finally?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,571

    Default So it's goodbye to paper-thin walls at showflats, finally?

    Finally, regulations to showflats to avoid misrepresentation.

    http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011_02_01_archive.html
    Tuesday, February 8, 2011

    So it's goodbye to paper-thin walls at showflats, finally?


    .
    Below is an excerpt of a BT report today:

    The Ministry of National Development (MND) plans to introduce new regulations to make sure that developers build showflats that accurately represent the actual units in a project, sources told BT.

    The move is meant to ensure that buyers are not misled by the interior design work at some showflats, which developers use to entice buyers before a residential development is completed.

    Developers have been known to leave out structural walls and columns when building showflats in order to make apartments seem more spacious. Another common tactic is to avoid clearly marking where a balcony starts, which makes living rooms appear larger.

    With the new rules,
    • Developers will be prevented from leaving out structural walls and columns from their showflats if completed units in the development will have these structures.
    • Structural walls in showflats will have to be on the same thickness as those in the actual homes.
    • Non-structural walls will have to be clearly marked out.
    • Showflat ceiling heights will have to be accurately reflected.
    • The transition from the living room to the balcony will also have to be clearly demarcated, although how this can be done is still being finalised.
    MND could also mandate that other essential elements such as bomb shelters and service balconies have to be present in showflats, sources added.

    The ministry is likely to launch a consultation exercise within the next few weeks before finalising the new regulations. The new rules could then be implemented in the second half of this year, BT understands.

    Developers BT spoke to said that the problem of misleading showflats is not all that common in Singapore.

    “The bigger boys don’t really do it (build misleading showflats),” one developer said. “But it happens, especially with so many new entrants in the market.”

    Of late, a few developments – including those offering mostly small, “shoebox” units – have come under criticism for having showflats with ceiling heights that are “not real”, extending living room spaces into balconies, and extensive use of glass and mirror walls in place of structural walls.

    In one extreme case, an entire wall which was supposed to separate one unit’s living room from the next apartment was replaced by just masking tape on the floor – albeit high-end masking tape.

    Sometimes, even sales agents who walk prospective buyers through such showflats do not know that they are not accurate representations of the completed units.

    The wife and I certainly welcome the proposed new regulations for showflats, which we felt are long overdue. As long as we can remember (and this is dating way back to the 1990s), the actual completed unit of many projects seemed to be somewhat smaller than what we recalled seeing in the showflat of similar size/configuration. This is especially in relation to the bedrooms.

    And it is somewhat unfair to put the blame on “new entrants in the market” – if you have been following our showflat reviews, you will find that even established players have been guilty of "vague" representations. How else can you explain the "what you see is not what you get" ceiling heights and “baby grand” straddling between the living and balcony area…?

    So what is your pet peeve on the issue of showflat "misrepresentation"? To get the ball rolling, here's one of ours:
    You step into a 3+Study showflat, see the frosted-glass wall separating the small Study and the adjacent walkway, and think to yourself "hey, this is an excellent idea as the last thing I need is another concrete wall that takes up additional space". But when you ask the marketing agent if the glass partition comes as an option, the response you get is "Oh, this is just ID. If you want to do this, it is subjected to approval from the condo management after you take possession of the unit, and at your own cost"...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by land118
    Finally, regulations to showflats to avoid misrepresentation.

    http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011_02_01_archive.html
    Tuesday, February 8, 2011

    So it's goodbye to paper-thin walls at showflats, finally?


    .
    Below is an excerpt of a BT report today:

    The Ministry of National Development (MND) plans to introduce new regulations to make sure that developers build showflats that accurately represent the actual units in a project, sources told BT.

    The move is meant to ensure that buyers are not misled by the interior design work at some showflats, which developers use to entice buyers before a residential development is completed.

    Developers have been known to leave out structural walls and columns when building showflats in order to make apartments seem more spacious. Another common tactic is to avoid clearly marking where a balcony starts, which makes living rooms appear larger.

    With the new rules,
    • Developers will be prevented from leaving out structural walls and columns from their showflats if completed units in the development will have these structures.
    • Structural walls in showflats will have to be on the same thickness as those in the actual homes.
    • Non-structural walls will have to be clearly marked out.
    • Showflat ceiling heights will have to be accurately reflected.
    • The transition from the living room to the balcony will also have to be clearly demarcated, although how this can be done is still being finalised.
    MND could also mandate that other essential elements such as bomb shelters and service balconies have to be present in showflats, sources added.

    The ministry is likely to launch a consultation exercise within the next few weeks before finalising the new regulations. The new rules could then be implemented in the second half of this year, BT understands.

    Developers BT spoke to said that the problem of misleading showflats is not all that common in Singapore.

    “The bigger boys don’t really do it (build misleading showflats),” one developer said. “But it happens, especially with so many new entrants in the market.”

    Of late, a few developments – including those offering mostly small, “shoebox” units – have come under criticism for having showflats with ceiling heights that are “not real”, extending living room spaces into balconies, and extensive use of glass and mirror walls in place of structural walls.

    In one extreme case, an entire wall which was supposed to separate one unit’s living room from the next apartment was replaced by just masking tape on the floor – albeit high-end masking tape.

    Sometimes, even sales agents who walk prospective buyers through such showflats do not know that they are not accurate representations of the completed units.

    The wife and I certainly welcome the proposed new regulations for showflats, which we felt are long overdue. As long as we can remember (and this is dating way back to the 1990s), the actual completed unit of many projects seemed to be somewhat smaller than what we recalled seeing in the showflat of similar size/configuration. This is especially in relation to the bedrooms.

    And it is somewhat unfair to put the blame on “new entrants in the market” – if you have been following our showflat reviews, you will find that even established players have been guilty of "vague" representations. How else can you explain the "what you see is not what you get" ceiling heights and “baby grand” straddling between the living and balcony area…?

    So what is your pet peeve on the issue of showflat "misrepresentation"? To get the ball rolling, here's one of ours:
    You step into a 3+Study showflat, see the frosted-glass wall separating the small Study and the adjacent walkway, and think to yourself "hey, this is an excellent idea as the last thing I need is another concrete wall that takes up additional space". But when you ask the marketing agent if the glass partition comes as an option, the response you get is "Oh, this is just ID. If you want to do this, it is subjected to approval from the condo management after you take possession of the unit, and at your own cost"...


    should also ensure that brochures reflect the real environment outside the condo ...

    also see greenery and unblocked view ... when all neighbouring high rise have been deliberately omitted ...misleading foreign buyers

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    298

    Default

    I am glad the ministry has finally reacted for these issues.

    I remembered many years ago when I was a greenhorn , I tot that all the units comes with wall papers etc etc..

    Maybe we should start a list of things that may have been misrepresented:

    1) Paper thin walls/missing walls
    2) Super high ceilings
    3) Missing toilet shower glassdoor (gives u an impression that the toilet is 'spacious')
    4) Planter box areas fully decorated with expensive timber covers (actually not included in)
    5) etc etc

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,943

    Default

    hope that FEO can take away those funny mattress at the showflat...
    those tailored special mattress, only with two inches thickness for the head, resting at the baywindow...can cannot find bedsheets...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    should also ensure that brochures reflect the real environment outside the condo ...

    also see greenery and unblocked view ... when all neighbouring high rise have been deliberately omitted ...misleading foreign buyers
    Ya, agree, every single project, greenery around..., and those maps that they draw are misleading, not to scale, always show MRT and amenities very near, when sometimes, there are so far away....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    this practice has been around for umpteen years. don't tell me MBT or the smart bunch of scholars in URA just got to know of it.

    paying millions of bucks for a bunch of jokers to come up with such a 'brilliant' suggestion. if it's up to me, i would just hit the rulebook drastically such that private MM/studio units can only be sold to elderly (like HDB), be banned from being constructed or LTV for such units be tapered down to 10-30%? surely there must be a better way to dampen demand for MM units.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157
    this practice has been around for umpteen years. don't tell me MBT or the smart bunch of scholars in URA just got to know of it.

    paying millions of bucks for a bunch of jokers to come up with such a 'brilliant' suggestion. if it's up to me, i would just hit the rulebook drastically such that private MM/studio units can only be sold to elderly (like HDB), be banned from being constructed or LTV for such units be tapered down to 10-30%? surely there must be a better way to dampen demand for MM units.
    Well, probably no one ( maybe high level ) complaint, so leave it status quo ma.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,368

    Default

    Agree. Not only showflat. Those artist impression in the papers is a joke. Every project is surrounded by greenery or right beside the sea. The worst are those Telok Kurau project - seriously how can these be beside the sea? And those projects in Newton/Novena concrete jungle surrounded by other buildings become a sea of greenery. And d'Leedon, how can they use that "famous architect" drawings and impression to advertise in the papers when the actual design wasn't used AT ALL? Yah, there are still some "curves" in the actual design but curving at the wrong places lah. We really have to put a stop to such nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by land118
    Ya, agree, every single project, greenery around..., and those maps that they draw are misleading, not to scale, always show MRT and amenities very near, when sometimes, there are so far away....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,721

    Default

    i think in today's Spore where the present govt is openly telling the public "your eyes are open" or "you only got yourself to blame" the question is where is the protection of public interest?

    in recent years we repeatedly see this protection of public interest being eroded as the govt sings about "less regulation" or "let the market sort itself out" under the failed mantra of the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

    buying pty is probably the biggest purchase a normal person will ever make, it is high time big businesses come under greater scrutiny than less. otherwise the govt is simply not do its job.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    15,307

    Default

    oredi told u guys its an artist impression mah....imagine staying next to sea....greenery....lol....

    i rmb a particular project 'The acacias'....the showflat model tucked the substation at the corner....but when the project TOPed, IT actually appear right in front of a stack...imagine ur living room directly facing the substation(few metres apart only)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    oredi told u guys its an artist impression mah....imagine staying next to sea....greenery....lol....

    i rmb a particular project 'The acacias'....the showflat model tucked the substation at the corner....but when the project TOPed, IT actually appear right in front of a stack...imagine ur living room directly facing the substation(few metres apart only)
    even if the potential buyers are warned that it is just an artist impression, it is not alright for the "impression" to be too far away from reality.

    minibonds, pinnacle notes, and many of structured notes are the same story. the brochure portrays them as safe, fixed-deposit-like products, and all the dirty facts were hidden in the voluminous and technical prospectuses that no one reads. when these products became worthless, MAS argued that the investors were properly warned.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Actually, if one is spending a fortune on a purchase, one must also take responsibility, due diligence and effort in evaluating all aspects.

    But it is always good to ensure basic rules and 'non-cheating' is enforced.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,620

    Default

    I would like to see DIMENSIONS in the floor plans!

    So what if developers have nice looking showflats with the right proportions mandated by URA if the floor plan dimensions are not printed in the brochures. I remember looking at HDB flats' floor plans and asking myself why private developers are not truthful. I know many of us are asking how do we determine that the developers are not cheating us and giving us a smaller area as stated in the brochures.
    Yee ha! Did I tickle your funny bone?


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,620

    Default

    We should expose those developers who are not honest!
    Yee ha! Did I tickle your funny bone?


  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    should also ensure that brochures reflect the real environment outside the condo ...

    also see greenery and unblocked view ... when all neighbouring high rise have been deliberately omitted ...misleading foreign buyers
    yah, I also love those adverts. Giant condo in the middle of a tropical forest.
    Or perspectives looking down Orchard Road when the dev is in Redhill.

  16. #16
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    MND/URA should just ban:
    1) the 10% allowance for balconies so that developers have more creativity to develop properties with more proportional and useful balconies instead of exploiting to the max of 10% in every new property.
    2) big big air-con ledges - for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by pod
    I am glad the ministry has finally reacted for these issues.

    I remembered many years ago when I was a greenhorn , I tot that all the units comes with wall papers etc etc..

    Maybe we should start a list of things that may have been misrepresented:

    1) Paper thin walls/missing walls
    2) Super high ceilings
    3) Missing toilet shower glassdoor (gives u an impression that the toilet is 'spacious')
    4) Planter box areas fully decorated with expensive timber covers (actually not included in)
    5) etc etc

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EBD
    yah, I also love those adverts. Giant condo in the middle of a tropical forest.
    Or perspectives looking down Orchard Road when the dev is in Redhill.

    and babes by the pool ... very few kids running around ... but reality is :

    PRC aunties swimming in T's and shorts ...and kidssssssssss everywhere ...

    even the sun sets in the wrong direction haahha


    so what if it is artist's impression ... it should still present a closer to reality impression ... buyers dont need to know what the artist's dream home is

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4,739

    Default

    Thought of buying Marina Bay Suites because from artist impression, it looks like it have full bay view. (at that time, didnt know that the artist make The Sail disappear).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    15,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    Thought of buying Marina Bay Suites because from artist impression, it looks like it have full bay view. (at that time, didnt know that the artist make The Sail disappear).
    haha...u r cute

    got narrow pocketed bayview la....hahaha...just imagine is full lor

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by urban
    Actually, if one is spending a fortune on a purchase, one must also take responsibility, due diligence and effort in evaluating all aspects.

    But it is always good to ensure basic rules and 'non-cheating' is enforced.

    a layman stepping into a showflat has no idea whether the physical dimensions adhere accurately to the numbers shown in a floor plan.

    how to tell if the showflat ceiling is exactly the 3m stated or exaggerated, other than getting a surveyor to measure and certify

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    and babes by the pool ... very few kids running around ... but reality is :

    PRC aunties swimming in T's and shorts ...and kidssssssssss everywhere ...

    even the sun sets in the wrong direction haahha


    so what if it is artist's impression ... it should still present a closer to reality impression ... buyers dont need to know what the artist's dream home is
    Haha...ya..man..more like in your dreams..then can see a perfect home...

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Actually in recent times before latest round of cooling measures, most pple go there without even knowing what they are buying, cos Agents always say give cheque 1st, showflat sometimes not even up, worst still went to 1 project, during VVIP preview, brochure also run out, give photocopy one.., whatever impression also dream by ourselves..haha

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    803

    Default

    http://www.fareast.com.sg/FEOCorp.We...-info&prop=260

    They should also set a regulations on the contents in the advertisements. I don't think Lanai is anywhere near to Bukit Timah District/JLD. Upper Bukit Timah would be considered near.

    Quote.
    The Lanai is a gem of sophisticated design located in the charming neighbourhood of Hillview.

    With Bukit Timah Nature Reserves on one side and Bukit Batok Nature Park on the other, the 999-year leasehold condominium is surrounded by the magnificent panorama of greenery. It is also perfectly sited between two busy hubs, the prestigious Bukit Timah District and the up-and-coming Jurong Lake District, Singapore’s newest lifestyle and commercial centre.
    Unquote.

    Opps... maybe my post is off topic.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,438

    Default

    Singapore prize itself as free market mah.

    Anyway, the worst misleading is Siglap V. You can see suddenly the whole Siglap town sank, expressway become tunnel and the sea level has risen 1 meter to nicely place that condo beside the sea.

    Not forgeting MBS too. A sole tower facing the bay. MBFC, Sail, ORQ all disappear. Not disappear but transform into trees. Marina bay becomes Marina forest.





    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157
    this practice has been around for umpteen years. don't tell me MBT or the smart bunch of scholars in URA just got to know of it.

    paying millions of bucks for a bunch of jokers to come up with such a 'brilliant' suggestion. if it's up to me, i would just hit the rulebook drastically such that private MM/studio units can only be sold to elderly (like HDB), be banned from being constructed or LTV for such units be tapered down to 10-30%? surely there must be a better way to dampen demand for MM units.

  25. #25
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    Wah! That Hillview area is near "prestigious Bukit Timah District"? From there to drive to the real "prestigious Bukit Timah District" got to drive for another 20 mins during non-peak and 45 mins during peak hours!

    More like very near Bukit Batok HDB estate!

    Quote Originally Posted by mygeemeel
    http://www.fareast.com.sg/FEOCorp.We...-info&prop=260

    They should also set a regulations on the contents in the advertisements. I don't think Lanai is anywhere near to Bukit Timah District/JLD. Upper Bukit Timah would be considered near.

    Quote.
    The Lanai is a gem of sophisticated design located in the charming neighbourhood of Hillview.

    With Bukit Timah Nature Reserves on one side and Bukit Batok Nature Park on the other, the 999-year leasehold condominium is surrounded by the magnificent panorama of greenery. It is also perfectly sited between two busy hubs, the prestigious Bukit Timah District and the up-and-coming Jurong Lake District, Singapore’s newest lifestyle and commercial centre.
    Unquote.

    Opps... maybe my post is off topic.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Wah! That Hillview area is near "prestigious Bukit Timah District"? From there to drive to the real "prestigious Bukit Timah District" got to drive for another 20 mins during non-peak and 45 mins during peak hours!

    More like very near Bukit Batok HDB estate!
    Was their intention to mislead or... Quite disappointed to read it on a full colored advertisement in newspaper.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,620

    Default

    LOL!! You guys are very good leh!
    Yee ha! Did I tickle your funny bone?


  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Also indicate the graveyard and high powered sub-station?

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pod
    Also indicate the graveyard and high powered sub-station?
    Got graveyard? Which development?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    7,482

    Default

    And can they make sure developers used standard size beds? Instead of scaled down queen size or scaled down king seize bed? That mislead buyersto think the actual walkable space in the bedroom.

Similar Threads

  1. Water leakage into condo from exterior walls (i.e. not ceiling or floor)
    By jpcannon in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 7
    -: 29-01-17, 13:47
  2. External walls
    By Lav123 in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 6
    -: 06-09-13, 16:04
  3. Knocking down walls
    By jencrs in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 0
    -: 18-04-12, 10:27
  4. Backyard walls collapse in mudslide
    By mr funny in forum Landed Property
    Replies: 0
    -: 05-09-08, 09:39
  5. Singapore Housing Hangs on Thin, Worn Thread: Andy Mukherjee
    By ahlahdin in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 3
    -: 09-07-08, 16:21

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •