Newbie
I always like to measure value of asset in weight of gold. e.g. 3 to 4 years ago, price of gold is about USD900+/kg and now its USD1500.Originally Posted by devilplate
So if your wealth or value of your property didnt appreciate about around 40% in the past 3 to 4 years, that mean your growth is almost negative.
Exalted
we r driving at the same point
however, gold is aso just a concept of wealth preservation....the 'value' of gold is similar to the 'value' of our papermoney
tell me....y gold worth 1500 now?
btw, silver seen a big correction from almost 50.....hope nobody kena burnt
Exalted
just to make a slight correction....gold in 2009 was about750.....hehe....lower den 900
Junior
haha, usd1500 per kg? that would be a great bargain.
the price old gold is usd1500 per ounce.
Junior
[quote=Jadey]That is not true. the problem today is not about the poor or freeloader wanting to get their hands on the reserves but more like asking the government to spare some thoughts for the poor and lower income because all the wealth and growth that were generated over the last 5 years have mostly been trapped among the top 10-20% income group. And thats why the rich are getting so much richer, while the poor are drowning in inflation.
Inflation is happening everywhere, but lower income Singaporeans are suffering much more because of the imbalance of income growth in this country, coupled with imbalance supply in housing, and influx of hot money from overseas, which cause cost of housing (the biggest ticket item) to almost double in 5 years. do we hv ppl who live without a meal for a day? hear of stories of ingenuine ways of taking out insurance monies. but for what? unless they or we want a trendier lifestyle. Middle income grp aspires for higher income lifestyle. Higher income grp wants Rich&Famous lifestyle. so lower income wants?
but i must say that medical is something the gahmen needs to change and hv more clinics. more to be built? what if those clinics/hospitals later turn into white elephants?
Junior
I think its unfair for the government to always give the excuse of saving for raining days when they opening reward themselves with million dollar salary. ask those ppl on what they really want then you see the real agenda? more dough like in other countries and not work....
For the poor and lower income group. rainy days, storm, drought etc have all come and go, and yet life for them is getting harder by the day. hv to define what are they looking for and deem as hard life.
Singaporeans will have to be careful about government plan to depend on our property as retirement asset, because how much our property is worth in future will ultimately depending on how much the future generation can afford. This is actually quite similar to Ponzi scheme where the new buyer will pay for the previous or earlier buyer. hence the cooling measures but need stronger antibiotics. article in ST today talked abt lower prices next yr. or probably we see prices lower this yr
One of the PAP ministers recently said that in the 80s he bought a 4 room flat for 100+K and sold it for 300+K in 8 to 10 years, and he go on to praise the government's effort in enhancing the value of HDB. But my question is, how long can such trend continue before it break? Can first time how buyer buy a $1m HDB flat? What about 20 years, 30 years, 50 years down the road? same with other developed/developing countries. do we want our properties to remain at 100+K in next 20 yrs?
You dont need an economist to know that this is a dangerous and unsustainable model[/quote]
Senior
Only a certain group of Singaporeans can depend on property as retirement asset. If need cash, they need to sell their asset to tide them through. After selling, they still need a roof over their head thus need to downgrade. However, those who are already staying in 2 room or 3 room HDB can hardly downgrade further... so how to consider it an asset if they can't even change it for $$$. They can rent from govt but this number will probably grow with the years so is there an end or is there a better solution?
Junior
I hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...
Junior
i agree with u. nowadays people in singapore like to compare poor people with rich peopleI hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...they don't realise that when compare to other countries poor, our poor is much much better already!
tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining?
Newbie
Good one. These people are losers. You should post this in the anti govt forums. But prepared to be bash..tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining?
Senior
As much as I agree that there are not many poor people in our country who qualify as poor as in the 3rd world country, I think you are using a 3rd world yard stick to measure a 1st world country. I have nothing against what you say concerning people demanding more but would like to add that the problems we face now is more 1st world than 3rd world. We cannot expect us to complain how come there is no water in our wells outside our homes because those problems are long gone.I hate to say this, as it sure will invite a lot of condemning remarks .... But, really, have you seen really *poor* ppl in other countries ? Do they have a pty, or anything ? Here if u still own a 2rm flat, it's very gd already. He can sell back to hdb and lease it instead, hence getting some cash... Plus... Do we have a case where extreme poverty is dominant ? Dmondd's point is simply, ppl are not happy cause they want more. In another forum I read something like this " why can't we get 1st world salary with good work life balance " while he's complaining this company hires a PR not a citizen. Not condoling the immigration policy, but sometimes the younger ones nowadays are just like so pampered ...
However I do agree on the fact that people are not happy cause they want more and that the younger ones nowadays are just so pampered...
Junior
just one question. opp has a list of unhappy thing they go against the ruling party. do u think all the issue will be settled if they are voted in? the situation will be the same or worse!!! so we really have to repent for 5 years!!As much as I agree that there are not many poor people in our country who qualify as poor as in the 3rd world country, I think you are using a 3rd world yard stick to measure a 1st world country. I have nothing against what you say concerning people demanding more but would like to add that the problems we face now is more 1st world than 3rd world. We cannot expect us to complain how come there is no water in our wells outside our homes because those problems are long gone.
However I do agree on the fact that people are not happy cause they want more and that the younger ones nowadays are just so pampered...
Senior
Honestly I think there are only 2 opp parties capable of delivering their pre-election promises.
Junior
always doubt when politicians promise the sky
we always weigh the least evil of two.
downside risk greater if opp is voted in, as evidenced in many countries recently
those who prefer opp have personal agenda. Hardly see those who live the musketeer chant - one for all and all for one
Exalted
Oredi got vandalism happening.... Can imagine wat will happen if opp grow stronger....
U want immediate death or slow cancer?
Senior
Both also don't want....Oredi got vandalism happening.... Can imagine wat will happen if opp grow stronger....
U want immediate death or slow cancer?
Exalted
got chance to find a cure for slow cancerBoth also don't want....
Be Heard, not the Herd
You need to visit the one room rental flats. There are quite a number of poor people around.i agree with u. nowadays people in singapore like to compare poor people with rich people
tell me, how come so many of us who are "poor", "deprived", "left behind by gahman", "working long hours" can still sit around at 8plus pm typing and posting on the internet forum complaining?
Exalted
but they dun type in front of computer and shouting POOR
we r toking abt those arent really poor but making the most noise!
Senior
I see many forummers arguing that our poor are actually far far better than the poor in some other countries. I would have to agree totally on that but I would say this is Singapore and pls do not always compare us to other countries poorer than us. If want to compare fairly, then also compare with countries better off than us. If not, don't compare...
I'd like to reiterate that this is Singapore and we've come a long way! The problems facing us today cannot be based on the model in 1959. We've all progressed (if I dare define progression like that). We are looking at different level of living standards. We have moved!!! I would feel for the old lady picking up cardboards in the market places because I don't need to do that hard work for a living. However in a country when everyone is picking card boards, she'll probably not have my sympathy!!! Just my opinion!
Having said that, I am still for the agreement that we must always treasure and appreciate what we have today because we usually have sufficient to meet our daily needs!Cheers!
Exalted
vy funny...we r toking about those losers who arent really tat poor and yet making the most complaints lah
when confronted....those losers will tok machiam like so noble and start saying many poor ppl in rental flats...picking up cardboards.....ask those losers to do volunteering work lah....see whether they siam anot
Senior
You lost me???vy funny...we r toking about those losers who arent really tat poor and yet making the most complaints lah
when confronted....those losers will tok machiam like so noble and start saying many poor ppl in rental flats...picking up cardboards.....ask those losers to do volunteering work lah....see whether they siam anotI am reading all the arguments and offered my opinions and now kana called a loser??? Huh? Well if it makes you happy, ok I am a loser but still dun know what u are saying!!!
Pls read carefully.... I am not in that school of thought saying there are many poor in our society, if that was your argument!!!
Exalted
i din quote u worYou lost me???
Pls read carefully.... I am not in that school of thought saying there are many poor in our society, if that was your argument!!!
its not up to me to judge u....coz i duno even noe u
u judge urself better
Senior
So if Tampines lose GRC to opp, would developers become more positive about the property market??? The sound on ground is suggesting some GRCs are in deep trouble.... even SM score own goal... so what's next???
Junior
But at least you're heard. What makes u think suddenly the PM says sorry, wage adjustment increment, promise no increase in GST, HDB income ceiling to be reviewed just days before election? Do you really think if there is no election and ZERO opposition bringing up issues like cost of living and the old people collecting cardboxes during rallies? I've been to many developed countries, and I dare say, I've never seen old people being treated so badly before.
Do you know our CPF gives one of the worst, or if not the worst returns compared to any other retirement funds in the world? Do you know when ministers increase their salaries, no one speak up but the NCMP?
And I notice many in this forum are still in the wealth-accumulation stage, therefore not as compassionate (i.e. only at 1st level of Maslow's hierachy of needs). But it's about time Singaporeans move forward as a nation, and realise money and GDP growth is not everything - diginity and the ability to voice our opinions is important as well. Who wants a government who calls them "daft"? Surely we must have some pride and dignity? Or money money money at the expense of humanity issit?
The reality is for the older generation, you have to ask yourself, why do you need total domination by one party with no alternative voices and no competition? A monopoly is never healthy and results in complacency. The opposition cannot come up with concrete policies because they don't have the entire civil service gathering information for them. In fact, info in Singapore can be scarce, e.g. no one knows SINGAPOREAN's employment rate. But at least they come up with some ideas - which can be discussed and debated.
And fear-mongering is one of the worst election tactic. Losing a few seats will not be the end of the world. The only thing to fear is fear itself.
Senior
Exactly what LTK said yesterday in his rally speech! Why PM apologized? Its coz the opp are checking and holding the incumbent accountable!
Exalted
looks like majority only expects opp to win 1 or 2 GRCs
Exalted
say sorry aso kena....dun say sorry aso kena.....Exactly what LTK said yesterday in his rally speech! Why PM apologized? Its coz the opp are checking and holding the incumbent accountable!
hahahaha
Senior
That's what opp do lor.... make sure the incumbent right or left also wrong!!!
Senior
MM, SM and WKS came in too hard. PM has to soften it. He is perfectionist but not to perfect this round.
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