2013: Market crash or ghost towns?

[teddybear]

Is DBSS really different from HDB? Does DBSS has 5-year MOP? If have then what is it so different from HDB BTO?

KBW's latest blog entry.. He angry liao and going to combine his jun and jul BTO launch to form a big army to whack SL hahaha.. Somemore he say will launch at a wise price haha.. SL jialat liao, made minister angry..

"A private developer’s DBSS launch in Tampines, with the upper end of the 5 room units priced at $880,000, caused a stir in the social media. The negative reaction was not surprising.

DBSS is a class of housing type between HDB flats and Executive Condos (EC)/private condos. It forms a tiny portion of the total housing options for Singaporeans.

While HDB flats are designed and priced by HDB, DBSS flats are designed and priced by private developers. If the private developer prices it too high and there are no takers, there will be no sales.

Netizens would like MND to come in and tell the private developer to cut its price. When they tendered for the land, price control was not a term of the tender. If contracts, after they are awarded, can be varied arbitrarily, this will damage Singapore’s reputation as a business hub, with severe repercussions.

But netizens are not powerless. If buyers find a price too high, they can walk away.

Neither am I. On my part, I am ramping up more BTO launches and pricing them appropriately. I am currently preparing the next BTO launch.
I am launching 25,000 units this year. 12,000 units have already been launched. Another 13,000 units will be launched this year, averaging 1,800 units per month.

I have been advised to do larger launches. Large launches offer buyers a wider range of choices, and reduce the odds of repeated disappointment. I think this is sound advice.

I am therefore working with HDB to see how the June and July launches can be combined for a larger launch. And I will price them wisely. Certainly, they will not be near what the recent DBSS launch suggests."

[taggy]

Is DBSS really different from HDB? Does DBSS has 5-year MOP? If have then what is it so different from HDB BTO?

Hav mop, Mr K just wan to stress the price is not set by hdb.

[rattydrama]

Hav mop, Mr K just wan to stress the price is not set by hdb.

DBSS with MOP of 5 year and can ONLY SELL BACK to HDB upgrader If buying at 700k or 800k, any upside in future if you going to sell? Those buying at this price is really nuts cos how much you can gain? + the 2.5% interest paid over 5 years....

before buying, must think of selling as well.

[DaytonaSS]

KBW damn on, every 3 days blogs n give updates!! Check out face book links,

http://www.facebook.com/MNDsingapore...94548120596375

pple are disagreeing with him. DBSS is HDB, cos govt by all its rules n regulations. Only not prices by HDB. Very soon pple going to question by then have DBSS? Is this asset class going to be phrased out?

[DaytonaSS]

DBSS with MOP of 5 year and can ONLY SELL BACK to HDB upgrader If buying at 700k or 800k, any upside in future if you going to sell? Those buying at this price is really nuts cos how much you can gain? + the 2.5% interest paid over 5 years....

before buying, must think of selling as well.

serious!!! got this kind of restriction? meaning can only sell to Singaporeans/PR whom have bought a HDB b4? y got so funny restriction ?

[rattydrama]

serious!!! got this kind of restriction? meaning can only sell to Singaporeans/PR whom have bought a HDB b4? y got so funny restriction ?

Its HDB flat still right? You can buy only if you dont hold any private property. Not funny I think. Unless u telling me DBSS is not HDB flat so dont need to follow HDB rules. Re-sale HDB no foreigners are allowed to buy.

[DaytonaSS]

Its HDB flat still right? You can buy only if you dont hold any private property. Not funny I think. Unless u telling me DBSS is not HDB flat so dont need to follow HDB rules. Its treated as re-sale HDB where no foreigners is allowed to buy.

KBW got me when he say DBSS is not HDB. Its still very HDB ma..... but he try to distance DBSS 880k buy saying build and price by private developer. Y we care which developer build, hdb have been building millions of flats , cannot be SL can build better or cheaper ma. Just do up some nicer interior then come price @ EC range which is 2x BTO price in this case ??

[Andrew76]

What matters most to consumers are the design, furnishing and last but not least, pricing of a unit. If HDB is unable to control any of these 3 aspects, would it be considered a HDB project?

[rattydrama]

KBW got me when he say DBSS is not HDB. Its still very HDB ma..... but he try to distance DBSS 880k buy saying build and price by private developer. Y we care which developer build, hdb have been building millions of flats , cannot be SL can build better or cheaper ma. Just do up some nicer interior then come price @ EC range which is 2x BTO price in this case ??

HDB cannot control the pricing of DBSS but set restrictions for sales of HBSS is itself flawed. Land cost is 2xxpsf and selling at construction costs 250psf... how much is SL selling? Actually the basic building cost of HDB is around 90k per unit.

DBSS also got no swimming pool. Better to buy EC where u can sell to local buyers/PRs holding any kind of positions or 10 years later to foreigners.

[ysyap]

What matters most to consumers are the design, furnishing and last but not least, pricing of a unit. If HDB is unable to control any of these 3 aspects, would it be considered a HDB project?

The number one concern of buyers are essentially the price. Interior design is no big deal. Who says I cannot do up the house the way I like with even better quality interior design? Who says the ID by DBSS will definitely suit my taste? DBSS is always HDB as long as the HDB rules applies. Its an expensive HDB, that's all. Just like a $10 chicken rice at Orchard or a $3 chicken rice at nearby coffeeshop! Both also chicken rice!

[rattydrama]

The number one concern of buyers are essentially the price. Interior design is no big deal. Who says I cannot do up the house the way I like with even better quality interior design? Who says the ID by DBSS will definitely suit my taste? DBSS is always HDB as long as the HDB rules applies. Its an expensive HDB, that's all. Just like a $10 chicken rice at Orchard or a $3 chicken rice at nearby coffeeshop! Both also chicken rice!

sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.

[ysyap]

sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.

What do you mean by fair value?

[linchong84]

sorry to disagree abit. I think this time round is not price alone. Its fair value of this project that SL is asking.

SL says price is reasonable.. This is really something quite puzzling.. 5 years ago when they launched Tamp DBSS 1 (Premiere) situated beside this current one, it was half the price.. 2-3 weeks ago, the BTO that was situated beside was also launched by HDB at half the price.. So, what actually warrant the 440k difference in price for the priciest unit in both the DBSS and BTO??

Property values depend on location, class of housing, size, views and finishing.. For location, both are similar since they are next to each other, although the DBSS will be slightly near to the hub and MRT. For class of housing, both are HDB with 5 year MOP. For size, the DBSS is not only smaller (DBSS is 108sqm, BTO is 110sqm), it also has big aircon ledge and 2 balconies. For views, both same surrounded by HDB.. For finishing, it has the partial furnishing such as tiles for living room, parquet for bedrooms, furnished bathrooms, airconditioned bedrooms (living room don't have), wardrobes, kitchen cabinets.. Are these furnishing worth 440k??

[ysyap]

The prices are reasonable to them, not the rest of the world... According to their explanation, then Kovan Residence must now be sold at $1600 psf coz its so so so near everything one needs to survive! Hahahaha!

[amk]

Actually i dun understand the hoohah.

Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?

If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.

I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs

[linchong84]

Actually i dun understand the hoohah.

Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?

If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.

I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs

Will definitely sell out within 1 year.. 800k is still very affordable afterall.. People were upset because they thought they could get it cheaper..

[devilplate]

Actually i dun understand the hoohah.

Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?

If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.

I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs

I felt comforted after reading kbw blog...i tink he can do the job

[teddybear]

Let me help Sim Lian to answer some questions:
1) DBSS is premium quality HDB
2) DBSS has better sound proofing (ordinary BTO like no sound proofing or very bad)
3) DBSS has better materials in walls, floor structures, etc, so cost of building is about $250 psf vs HDB $80 psf. If your are not construction experts & didn't do testing, you usually can't tell the difference just by looking at them from outside.

SL says price is reasonable.. This is really something quite puzzling.. 5 years ago when they launched Tamp DBSS 1 (Premiere) situated beside this current one, it was half the price.. 2-3 weeks ago, the BTO that was situated beside was also launched by HDB at half the price.. So, what actually warrant the 440k difference in price for the priciest unit in both the DBSS and BTO??

Property values depend on location, class of housing, size, views and finishing.. For location, both are similar since they are next to each other, although the DBSS will be slightly near to the hub and MRT. For class of housing, both are HDB with 5 year MOP. For size, the DBSS is not only smaller (DBSS is 108sqm, BTO is 110sqm), it also has big aircon ledge and 2 balconies. For views, both same surrounded by HDB.. For finishing, it has the partial furnishing such as tiles for living room, parquet for bedrooms, furnished bathrooms, airconditioned bedrooms (living room don't have), wardrobes, kitchen cabinets.. Are these furnishing worth 440k??

[rattydrama]

Actually i dun understand the hoohah.

Sim Lian wants to sell 880k, go ahead and let him sell. If some one is silly enough to buy, who are we to say no to him ?

If nobody buys it, Sim Lian got to swallow it back, his problem. If at this price still need balloting, u can then conclude all these "new HDb price too high" complaints are bullshit.

I agree with KBW on not intervening on the pricing. This is a simple business. I sell u the land and u can only sell to Singaporean families with 10k income and 5y MOP and all the other HDB restrictions. How u set ur price is ur own business. For all u know SL could be genius and there are actually enough demand to buy these 800k hdbs

Buyer beware. Buy and dont regret and dont blame government. For those who dont read and dont bother about such restriction, if get stuck pls dont blame government but themselves lor...

[kane]

Let me help Sim Lian to answer some questions:
1) DBSS is premium quality HDB
2) DBSS has better sound proofing (ordinary BTO like no sound proofing or very bad)
3) DBSS has better materials in walls, floor structures, etc, so cost of building is about $250 psf vs HDB $80 psf. If your are not construction experts & didn't do testing, you usually can't tell the difference just by looking at them from outside.

Sim Lian should hire you as their public relations chief.

actually, i think an effective way is for HDB to not let developers affect their reputation is by setting the selling price at a BTO+ level and let developers bid whatever price they think they can make some margin with a minimum reserve price. Afterall, the developers rely on them for landbank. And if the bid comes in too low, HDB can easily be the one directing the project and issuing the contract to contractors for them to build premium design flats.

having said all that, i hope i wouldn't have to celebrate their marketing success because of some irrational buyers who have decided to fork $800+k for a 5 room flat. it just doesn't feel right.

[kane]

Buyer beware. Buy and dont regret and dont blame government. For those who dont read and dont bother about such restriction, if get stuck pls dont blame government but themselves lor...

yes CAVEAT EMPTOR indeed! Don't ask for a bailout if things go pear shaped.

[rattydrama]

What do you mean by fair value?

not fair value as this is DBSS with restrictions. With this price, we can opt for EC by paying abit more.

If the price is expensive without restriction, then maybe it is fairer... as it is being compensated by good location. no facility also nvr mind for some as no nid pay maintenance fee.

but if singaporeans still buy, what can we say?

[yjcai]

Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical

178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k

Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms

3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss

*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.

[rattydrama]

Sim Lian should hire you as their public relations chief.

actually, i think an effective way is for HDB to not let developers affect their reputation is by setting the selling price at a BTO+ level and let developers bid whatever price they think they can make some margin with a minimum reserve price. Afterall, the developers rely on them for landbank. And if the bid comes in too low, HDB can easily be the one directing the project and issuing the contract to contractors for them to build premium design flats.

having said all that, i hope i wouldn't have to celebrate their marketing success because of some irrational buyers who have decided to fork $800+k for a 5 room flat. it just doesn't feel right.

to add, must set min living standards and reasonable quality. otherwise only dogy can stay cos all corners being cut.

[kane]

Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical

178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k

Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms

3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss

*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.

4 rm flat 600+k is still ok? either i'm too conservative or there are more carrot heads out there to be fleeced.

[rattydrama]

search under tampines ave 5

4-room

blk 939 06 to 10 104.00 m2
Model A 1988 $435,000.00 Jun 2011

blk 860B 01 to 05 104.00 m2
Model A 1987 $387,000.00 Mar 2011

5-room

861A 01 to 05 122.00
Improved 1988 $420,200.00 May 2011

859 11 to 15 122.00
Improved 1988 $475,000.00 Apr 2011



Sim Lian launches Centrale 8 at Tampines three-room flats range in size from 61 sq m, four-room flats from 83 sq m and five-room flats from 108 sq m Three-room flats $397,000 and S$510,000, four-room units between S$531,000 and S$683,000 and five-room flats between S$685,000 and S$880,000.

Look at the recent transacted price which is about 150k to 200k dif and smaller @ roughly same location for 4 room and 400k dif for 5 room.

SL is smart but I think too greedy, should remember its still public housing want to play, play private less complaint.

[yjcai]

PSF Estimation

Adora Green Yishun
3 Room : 721sqft, 330k-400k, 457psf ~ 554 psf
4 Room : 990sqft), 440k-550k, 444psf ~ 555 psf
5 Room : 1,206sqft), 540k-650k, 447psf ~ 538 psf

Again Centrale Tampines
3 Room : 657 sqft, 397k-510k, 604psf~776 psf
4 Room: 904 sqft, 531k - 683k, 587psf ~ 775 psf
5 Room: 1163 sqft, 685k - 880k, 588psf ~756 psf

Possible to get 4 room at a decent psf level since got 2 MRT, 3 shopping centre premium. Cannot say the same for quantum

[devilplate]

Don't get too hype up over whether buyers are carrots. Lets be logical

178 5 rooms 685k - 880k
348 4 rooms 531k - 683k
182 3 rooms 397k - 510k

Bring your attention to the number of units on 3 rooms and 4 rooms

3 room - ok sure still people will buy cos of better furnishing and location
4 room - still ok compared to development like dawson and other dbss

*5 room - test water. If they not confident cannot sell, they won't launch this number
"NO FEAR WHEN WE LAUNCH OUR EC, THIS IS CHICKEN FEET", when people realize they cannot afford their EC 3 bedder, naturally they will flock back to the 5 rooms. So win win. If I am SL I will launch like this also, freaking smart. My DBSS makes waterview looks cheap, with the EC coming up, the DBSS sure clear. I launch limited 5 room units, so minimize damage if cannot sell.

How come price gap so huge for let say 4rm flat?they got various 4rm sizes? Tampines only can build up to 10flrs rite? 2nd to 10th flr at most 50-70k diff?

If we take the lower end of the px range...seems alrite leh....

[CCR]

What I don't understand is why need to let private developer bid and build dbss? Why cant hsb build on their own and price it bto +?

[yjcai]

Thats why tomorrow shall go their showroom and be awed. I am interested to know why too. why the range so big.

5 room no need argue. TAI-ed to max. 178 units maybe facing future lifestyle hub (4th shopping centre), who knows