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Thread: Citi sails against the wind, says housing glut unlikely

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    Default Citi sails against the wind, says housing glut unlikely

    Citi sails against the wind, says housing glut unlikely

    It says scenario is not likely to happen in 2013/14, citing 'severe shortage'

    By UMA SHANKARI
    (SINGAPORE) Citigroup believes that the expected surge in the supply of new HDB flats and private homes over the next few years will not lead to a housing glut in 2013 and 2014 - a view that is contrary to that held by most other analysts.

    A different view:
    Citi says that the current 'undersupply situation will likely take several years to clear, just like the oversupply situation in the early 2000s' The bank's property analysts also said in a new report that the current 'severe shortage' of HDB flats is likely to provide support for mass-market prices and demand.

    This is again different from most analysts' predictions that a step-up in HDB supply will dampen demand for mass-market private homes and hit prices in the segment.

    'We believe the prolonged period of under-building in the 2000s has resulted in the current severe housing shortage,' wrote Citi's property analysts, led by Wendy Koh, in their June 26 report.

    'We estimate that the deficit in housing units is in excess of 50,000 currently and this undersupply situation will likely take several years to clear, just like the oversupply situation in the early 2000s.'
    'With a severe shortage, we are not overly concerned about the rise in supply in both HDB and private residential units . . . A housing glut in 2013/14 is an unlikely scenario, based on our estimates.'

    Citi's estimates show that the upcoming HDB supply and the potential increase in the income ceiling for new HDB flats will reduce HDB resale transactions by 7-15 per cent at most. The impact on the private property market would be even smaller, Citi reckons.

    Ms Koh also said that the undersupply situation in the HDB market will support demand for and prices of suburban mass-market homes.
    'Occupancy rate for mass-market properties are at an all-time high of 97.5 per cent. With yields averaging at around 4.2 per cent versus mortgage rates of just between 1.2-1.6 per cent, investment demand for small units and mass-market units could remain strong,' Ms Koh said.
    However, the report cautioned that any further price increase or spike in volume in the mass-market segment risks more property measures as the government is monitoring the market closely.

    Citi's views are a departure from the prevailing industry consensus that a housing glut is likely. CIMB analyst Donald Chua, for example, said that 'looming oversupply' from both the private and HDB markets is a big worry for the sector.

    'We believe an oversupply situation is looming, going by rising private and HDB physical completions and expectations of a less liberal immigration policy,' Mr Chua said in a note last week.
    'Population growth, if it normalises to 65,000- 80,000 per year (from around 162,000 annually in 2006-2011), implies a mere 20,300 units of incremental demand, based on 3.5 persons per household. This would not be sufficient to absorb net supply (HDB and private) of 33,300 units per year, on our estimates.'

    Morgan Stanley also recently said that it continues to see a risk of oversupply in terms of physical completion and units available for sale, and expects residential prices to fall by about 7 per cent over the next two years.

    Citi's analysts were more negative on the outlook for high-end and luxury
    homes as well as the office market.

    Demand for high-end homes is likely to remain lacklustre given the uncertain global economic outlook and the strong rental competition among newly completed units, Citi said.

    'We believe rental for the high-end segment has probably peaked and downside risks outweigh upside risk in the coming 6-12 months,' said Ms Koh.

    'The current rental yields averaging at 2.4 per cent provides very little room for further yield compression.'

    However, as long as interest rates remain at current low levels, prices are likely to hold, she added.

    And in the office market, Citi's report said that competition for tenants is likely to intensify as around one million square feet of new space that will be completed this year is still uncommitted.

    'Leasing activities have slowed and major financial institutions appear to have satisfied their space needs,' Citi said. 'Rental rates are likely to flatten out, and capital values are likely to have peaked.'

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    this citi analyst is a OCR supporter! hehe

    teddy will not like it and most likely will not even want to read it

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    this citi analyst is a OCR supporter! hehe

    teddy will not like it and most likely will not even want to read it

    teddy is known to be an ostrich hiding his little head in the sand, even with flood water up to his ass (since his head is in the sand) in his orchard home.

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    I won't call him a OCR supporter lah. More like a investor looking at yields and future cash flows. The current yields for large units in CCR is really pathetic (2%?) and any increase in capital values will only lower the yields further to 1%+. In short, unless SUDDENLY the tenants want to pay a huge rental premium to live in the city (which is not happening), it is unlikely capital values can go up any further. So if OCR yields are currently at 4%, if capital value falls, it will increase to 5% and lots of investors will enter the market again, driving up capital values and hit an equilibrium yield of say 3%. In this forum, u realise a lot of people do not look at yields and many are still looking for primary residence. From an investor's standpoint, the only concern is future cash flows, wherever that is.

    But I must say, the future supply is quite scary...

    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    this citi analyst is a OCR supporter! hehe

    teddy will not like it and most likely will not even want to read it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    So if OCR yields are currently at 4%, if capital value falls, it will increase to 5% and lots of investors will enter the market again, driving up capital values and hit an equilibrium yield of say 3%.
    what scenario will cause capital values to fall and rental remains the same and hence yield goes up to 5%?

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    Need to differentiate HDB and condo supplies. HDB will enjoy good demand due to subsidies and lower price. Condo supply is already a lot and many are still in the pipeline from GLS, but demand will suffer once the salary ceiling for HDB/DBSS/EC is lifted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    what scenario will cause capital values to fall and rental remains the same and hence yield goes up to 5%?
    bad market sentiment(short period of time) while unemployment remains the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    Need to differentiate HDB and condo supplies. HDB will enjoy good demand due to subsidies and lower price. Condo supply is already a lot and many are still in the pipeline from GLS, but demand will suffer once the salary ceiling for HDB/DBSS/EC is lifted.
    demand will suffer? results in px correction in ocr condo?

    dun b so sure....i expect ocr pte condo px to rise when income ceiling for Dbss/EC is raised

    unless KBW up HDB ceiling to 10k while DBSS/EC remains at 10k too.....den it will be very interesting...

    immediate response will be HDB BTO super oversubscribed and more complaints!

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    HDB BTO income shd b raised to 10k but priority shd be given to those applicants below 8k.....

    and den raised EC to 12k and scrap or stop selling land for DBSS for time being

    any comments? hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    demand will suffer? results in px correction in ocr condo?

    dun b so sure....i expect ocr pte condo px to rise when income ceiling for Dbss/EC is raised

    unless KBW up HDB ceiling to 10k while DBSS/EC remains at 10k too.....den it will be very interesting...

    immediate response will be HDB BTO super oversubscribed and more complaints!
    If couples with high combined salary can now buy ECs with subsidies, why should they go for overpriced condos? In addition, due to the better price support for ECs, condos prices will go up even higher, pricing even more people out. So overall mass market condo demand will fall in the short term and we will end up seeing more empty condos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    If couples with high combined salary can now buy ECs with subsidies, why should they go for overpriced condos? In addition, due to the better price support for ECs, condos prices will go up even higher, pricing even more people out. So overall mass market condo demand will fall in the short term and we will end up seeing more empty condos.
    nvm la....we shall see la

    i can also argue....Y BTO so so cheap and yet ppl choose to pay high COV for resale flats?

    location and MOP does a big part my fren.......once EC is bot, for next 8yrs cannot invest in another pte ppty!!!! and ppl wants near MRT but new EC all in ulu locations!

    btw, how many singaporeans 1st timer r buying pte condo NOW? not many can afford....those buying now is HDB upgradders or investors!

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    bad market sentiment(short period of time) while unemployment remains the same
    Did such a thing happened in Singapore history before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    Did such a thing happened in Singapore history before?
    right now, super low int rate+super high inflation rate+super high GDP for SG...ever happen in SG b4?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    btw, how many singaporeans 1st timer r buying pte condo NOW? not many can afford....those buying now is HDB upgradders or investors!
    Many SG graduates semi-rich now leh or got strong family backing. However, I also personally know of a few Gen Y pple with household income < $10k, who are 1st timers buying OCRs.

    Actually that's a key reason why OCRs have been going up. The CCRs are out of reach, & hence to fulfill their condo dreams, many upgraders or Gen Y are turning to the OCR new launches or resale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaozong7
    Many SG graduates semi-rich now leh or got strong family backing. However, I also personally know of a few Gen Y pple with household income < $10k, who are 1st timers buying OCRs.

    Actually that's a key reason why OCRs have been going up. The CCRs are out of reach, & hence to fulfill their condo dreams, many upgraders or Gen Y are turning to the OCR new launches or resale.
    wow...which means OCR still affordable !!! price still got room to rise!

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    HDB BTO income shd b raised to 10k but priority shd be given to those applicants below 8k.....

    and den raised EC to 12k and scrap or stop selling land for DBSS for time being

    any comments? hehe
    should give priorty to below 6K...BTO standard is the basic housing. some family may not have duo income.

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    When income ceiling rises, private condo demands will fall... coz those who were previously forced to buy PC will not turn to ECs and DBSS (maybe no takers for this group... ). Then prices of OCR will automatically correct to accommodate this change in income ceiling allowance (aka new policy).
    Last edited by ysyap; 28-06-11 at 11:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Agreed that when income ceiling rises, private condo demands will fall... coz those who were previously forced to buy PC will not turn to ECs and DBSS (maybe no takers for this group... )
    let us rewind back....dun tok abt income ceiling now.....

    when EC was introduced last time, did it cause a drop in demand for OCR condos? even if there is a drop in demand....did OCR condo price drop due to cheaper alternative ECs?

    how to measure/quantify demand? by looking at sales volume rite? did EC ever cause a drop in sales volume for ocr condos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    right now, super low int rate+super high inflation rate+super high GDP for SG...ever happen in SG b4?
    dont think so. also never have bank loan approved before without looking at income statement, FD statements. loose credit hur...
    So now we live in interesting times. frankly i am going to liquidate all before SHTF (except for trillium.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    let us rewind back....dun tok abt income ceiling now.....

    when EC was introduced last time, did it cause a drop in demand for OCR condos? even if there is a drop in demand....did OCR condo price drop due to cheaper alternative ECs?

    how to measure/quantify demand? by looking at sales volume rite? did EC ever cause a drop in sales volume for ocr condos?
    The fun part is you'll never know! Drop or rise from previous quarters may be documented and recorded but drop or rise from potential numbers will always be a mystery. If no EC, maybe the demand might be much much stronger! But I do agree that prices are pretty stubborn and can potentially be independent of volume and demands. It really can swing either way... anybody's guess!

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    I think Citigroup may be right. As long as Singapore economy doesn't stumble, hard for prices to come down much. The funny thing also is that sometimes, the more you try and implemen measures to cool down a market, the more people want to jump in because it is now more expensive (hence more exclusive).

    Its like those branded bags. The more they limit the supply, the higher they rise pices, the more women want to buy them.

    Cars also. The higher the CEO price goes, the more people want to buy BMW, Mercedes, Audis...

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    Default Citibank and Credit Suisse reports agree on pte supply is a non-issue

    Analysts at Credit Suisse also said in earlyJune that the multiple factors at play in the economy, govt policies and housing market combined should lead to a more balanced demand and supply situation over the next three to five years and result in more moderate price appreciation in the residential sector. The bank also did a sensitivity analysis, which showed that the expected completions of an average of 14,500 private homes a year from 2011 to 2014 could be absorbed by the market – provided immigration growth remains at or above 70,000 a year (below the 150,000 average from 2005 to 2009), with a household size of five persons.

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    my view is very simple, if EC income ceiling raise to 12K, this signals to the developers that they can start raising their new EC selling price => mass market price will have to go up with EC supporting them

    already sim lian case has shown that once government raise income ceiling to 10k, government is indirectly granting approval to developer to raise price

    so Mr K is doing a good job to enrich existing owners.. hurray to Mr K

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthepies
    my view is very simple, if EC income ceiling raise to 12K, this signals to the developers that they can start raising their new EC selling price => mass market price will have to go up with EC supporting them

    already sim lian case has shown that once government raise income ceiling to 10k, government is indirectly granting approval to developer to raise price

    so Mr K is doing a good job to enrich existing owners.. hurray to Mr K
    Owners huat ah! But only if you sell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldenfirefly
    I think Citigroup may be right. As long as Singapore economy doesn't stumble, hard for prices to come down much. The funny thing also is that sometimes, the more you try and implemen measures to cool down a market, the more people want to jump in because it is now more expensive (hence more exclusive).
    I think a key unknown now is also the immigration policy. Will the inflow be around 60k to 70k yearly as estimated, or will we see further tightening? It's pretty hard to gauge what our dear Govt will do now.......

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    Ahhh... finally an analyst talking sense.....

    Underbuilding is a fact that alot of people refuse to agree..... how many people are living in HDB in their favoured heartland looking forward to upgrade?

    I can tell you.... IT"S REALLY ALOT OF THEM.

    When they shift out to these heartland OCR condos, they will rent out their HDB or sell to foreigners or naysayers who expect property prices to dip.

    However, the combined factors are driving up prices, i.e. low interest rates, enbloc buyers, HDB upgraders, SG being re-rated.

    We are at the start of the Singapore bubble, better jump in early and jump out before the bubble bursts which i believe is still quite a distant time away.

    I agree with Devilplate that if income ceiling raised to S$12k for EC/DBSS.... this will drive prices to even higher levels.

    Gen Y complain HDB BTO prices high and not enough, government very smart..... "Ok, I give you what you want" but the real truth and consequence is their eventual private condo dream will get even further with escalating prices in the private sector.

    Our government is very fair and subscribe to "give and take" policy. E.g. GST credits with GST hikes.

    "SUBSIDIES COME WITH A PRICE".

    Becareful of what we wish for, this is especially so for Gen Y with their reckless complains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaozong7
    I think a key unknown now is also the immigration policy. Will the inflow be around 60k to 70k yearly as estimated, or will we see further tightening? It's pretty hard to gauge what our dear Govt will do now.......
    By then, Market weak and Gen Y vested in their properties already.....


    Government will step in....."Don't worry, the FT tap will open to support the economy!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by solsys
    When they shift out to these heartland OCR condos, they will rent out their HDB or sell to foreigners or naysayers who expect property prices to dip.

    I agree with Devilplate that if income ceiling raised to S$12k for EC/DBSS.... this will drive prices to even higher levels.
    I think this is the trend that we are seeing nowadays.. A lot of people are aiming to rent out HDB, and buy a pte condo to stay in so that the HDB rental can cover the condo loan payments.. Problem is will there be enough rental demand to sustain this trend.. If this trend continues, flooding lots of rental supply into the market, rental yield might drop..

    Regarding the income ceiling, if the govt is smart, they won't raise the income ceiling to 12k for EC.. Right now, everything is working fine as long as HDB continues to work hard in pushing out more BTOs, DBSS and ECs to satisfy the demand backlog.. In any case, KBW did not say that he will raise BTO ceiling to 10k.. It could be BTO to 9k and DBSS,EC remains the same at 10k..

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    Quote Originally Posted by linchong84
    I think this is the trend that we are seeing nowadays.. A lot of people are aiming to rent out HDB, and buy a pte condo to stay in so that the HDB rental can cover the condo loan payments.. Problem is will there be enough rental demand to sustain this trend.. If this trend continues, flooding lots of rental supply into the market, rental yield might drop..

    Regarding the income ceiling, if the govt is smart, they won't raise the income ceiling to 12k for EC.. Right now, everything is working fine as long as HDB continues to work hard in pushing out more BTOs, DBSS and ECs to satisfy the demand backlog.. In any case, KBW did not say that he will raise BTO ceiling to 10k.. It could be BTO to 9k and DBSS,EC remains the same at 10k..
    Too little supply of hdb whole unit rental now.....Can u imagine paying 2k for a CMI 2.4m ceiling ht corridor facing 30-40yo hdb flat of 60sqm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Too little supply of hdb whole unit rental now.....Can u imagine paying 2k for a CMI 2.4m ceiling ht corridor facing 30-40yo hdb flat of 60sqm?
    Do you know where to find the data for this supply of hole hdb unit? Oh cld you also advise what is cannot-make-it 2.4m ceiling ht corridor ... do you mean some pte that face hdb?

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