Prices of resale flats, private homes continue to rise

[teddybear]

Rentals are for PRs and foreigners.
If govt sincerely want to persuade PRs to become Citizens and foreigners to become PRs, just stop PRs from buying HDB flats! They either convert to citizens or they pay high rentals!

For foreign workers (maids, construction workers), they don't pay rent! Aren't we suppose to be getting high-end skilled foreigners who are supposed to be able to pay rent of $3k and above? If not why are these people here to compete with the middle income citizens and deprive them of their jobs? Why is MND creating a HDB rental market for the low-end foreigners to rent? Don't we see that the crimes situation getting worse in Singapore? Padangs slashing, knife gutting! Wow!

how about those holding many many multiple units? oversupply story always there

but imagine HDB restricts/tighten HDB subletting, rental will shoot up immediately as we oredi noe old old 3rm flat fetches 2k on average now which is oredi super high!

population cfm rise one la....govt build so many MRT for? so so many lines......last time 3mil can survive wif just EW and NS line.....now got NEL, DTL1,2,3, circe line, TSL, ERL....

[devilplate]

Rentals are for PRs and foreigners.
If govt sincerely want to persuade PRs to become Citizens and foreigners to become PRs, just stop PRs from buying HDB flats! They either convert to citizens or they pay high rentals!

For foreign workers (maids, construction workers), they don't pay rent! Aren't we suppose to be getting high-end skilled foreigners who are supposed to be able to pay rent of $3k and above? If not why are these people here to compete with the middle income citizens and deprive them of their jobs? Why is MND creating a HDB rental market for the low-end foreigners to rent?

how abt service sector....i tink we nid those foreign workers.....

those filip, msians, or even PRC provides much better customer service standard as compared to locals lor....hard truth....lol

[devilplate]

Why is MND creating a HDB rental market for the low-end foreigners to rent? Don't we see that the crimes situation getting worse in Singapore? Padangs slashing, knife gutting! Wow!

yes, our police force better buck up too....so many death cases happening for the past few mths!

[teddybear]

Really? those foreigners customer service sucks (excep Malaysia & Filips generally). There are so many youngsters out of jobs or having to endure low pay. Getting rid of these low-pay foreigners will let them have higher pays (ask their bosses don't earn so much lah). Don't we see the bosses earning so much more while their workers getting less & less? Why? Isn't the root reason because of these cheap low end foreign workers?
As a matter of guide, all jobs that cannot be moved overseas (particularly the local service jobs) should be reserved for citizens only! (More incentives for PRs to convert to citizens!).
All the talks about if don't let them the bosses employ foreigners they will shift their businesses overseas are bull-shit! Let them shift their restaurants, their cars servicing centres, their hospitals, their clinics, their retail shops, etc that provide local services & need local shop-fronts overseas lah if they can! Who cares?!

how abt service sector....i tink we nid those foreign workers.....

those filip, msians, or even PRC provides much better customer service standard as compared to locals lor....hard truth....lol

[devilplate]

Really? those foreigners customer service sucks (excep Malaysia & Filips generally). There are so many youngsters out of jobs or having to endure low pay. Getting rid of these low-pay foreigners will let them have higher pays (ask their bosses don't earn so much lah). Don't we see the bosses earning so much more while their workers getting less & less? Why? Isn't the root reason because of these cheap low end foreign workers?
As a matter of guide, all jobs that cannot be moved overseas (particularly the local service jobs) should be reserved for citizens only! (More incentives for PRs to convert to citizens!).
All the talks about if don't let them the bosses employ foreigners they will shift their businesses overseas are bull-shit! Let them shift their restaurants, their cars servicing centres, their hospitals, their clinics, their retail shops, etc that provide local services & need local shop-fronts overseas lah if they can! Who cares?!

Er...locals not willing to work in service line one la....low pay n long hours....1.5k pay nia for waitress....up their pay to wat inorder to attract locals to work? 2.5k? Den bosses will up the food px tag anot?

[ysyap]

Just heard that KBW has suspended all sales of land parcels for DBSS to review this tier of HDB flats... so they are reading our threads!

[ysyap]

Simple lah, let me give them some suggestions:
1) Nobody is allowed to simultaneous own HDB flat and private properties. (They can either keep private or keep HDB).
2) 10 years MOP.
3) HDB flats for own stay only, cannot rent out!

If they take up your suggestions, Singapore's housing market will enter a critical state of severe disorder...

[devilplate]

If they take up your suggestions, Singapore's housing market will enter a critical state of severe disorder...

Especially the last point whereby no subletting of hdb totally

[ysyap]

Especially the last point whereby no subletting of hdb totally

Yes, its not just an act of shooting himself in the foot but its as good as sinking the PAP ship! Hahaha!

[solsys]

Cannot rent out HDB flats will be interesting but alot of havoc.

Perhaps rule will come in to say cannot rent out HDB until the bulk supply comes in 2015. Then alot of Singaporeans who own private and HDB will sell out one, most likely HDB.

Private property will rise until out of reach for most Singaporeans.

Then the young instead of complaining not enough HDB..... will complain private property out of reach.

Then again, maybe they will not.... coz they claim they are pursuing not the usual 5Cs..... and pursuing some highly spiritual 5Cs.... which I can't rememeber.

Private property officially becomes playground of the rich and Singaporeans can be proud of their HDB heritage! World Class Public Housing!!! Only Singaporeans can live in and can never move out!

[ysyap]

Private property officially becomes playground of the rich and Singaporeans can be proud of their HDB heritage! World Class Public Housing!!! Only Singaporeans can live in and can never move out!

Tour guide: Welcome to Singapore. This is the infamous HDB flats you see on your right.
Tourist: Hey why are there so many people inside those pigeon units calling for help?
Tour guide: Oh yes... they can't get out once they entered! We boost the world's first home prison. Different from house arrest! Hahahaha!

[flxcat]

On 1 hand they are in control of HDB flats via MND (they can control supply via building HDB flats and they can control demand via rules and regulations they have absolute control in changing) and they promise to solve the complaint about run-away HDB flats prices. On the other hand the HDB flats prices are running away much faster than private properties which is slowing down by so much vs the increasing by so much for the HDB flats' prices? Either they are incompentent or they are not doing what they said they want to do! They can slap 4yrs 16% SSD on private properties and they can't do the same for HDB flats via simiar draconian measures? Simple lah, let me give them some suggestions:
1) Nobody is allowed to simultaneous own HDB flat and private properties. (They can either keep private or keep HDB).
2) 10 years MOP.
3) HDB flats for own stay only, cannot rent out!

Wow fierce.
Believe too drastic policy change will have repercussion.
Should allow govt to work on supply crunch before any policy change.
At least 2-3yrs of adv notice to cater for on going lease to expire.
Frankly FW accommodation is definitely a concern and will remain as a problem as pte rent to come down to $500 per room may not be realistic.
As for FT is good to understand is there a net wealth requirement to become PR if any. Then is clearer if FT can afford to rent pte.
As we all knows well we need both FW n FT so we also cannot have the cake n eat it.

[teddybear]

Bosses up food price and more people will eat at home with family mah, more family friendly like in UK and US!

Er...locals not willing to work in service line one la....low pay n long hours....1.5k pay nia for waitress....up their pay to wat inorder to attract locals to work? 2.5k? Den bosses will up the food px tag anot?

[teddybear]

If 4years 16% SSD for private properties, the most draconian measure that even HK never ever introduced, and SG private property market didn't enter into critical state of severe disorder and instead has slowed the price rise effectively, similar draconian measure is really needed for HDB flats to tame their run-away price rises!

If they take up your suggestions, Singapore's housing market will enter a critical state of severe disorder...

[teddybear]

On what basis can they complain about private property out of reach? Private properties are meant for top 20% earners and when they get into top 20% earners, they can afford. Private properties are not "Public HDB flats" where govt need to ensure that they are affordable to most people. If they intend to do so, firstly they also need to ensure most people earn same salary as they themselves the PM and Ministers mah??

Complaining private property out of reach is like complaining why those Ministers and CEOs earning $Millions a year? Might as well ask them to take same pay as complainers?

Cannot rent out HDB flats will be interesting but alot of havoc.

Perhaps rule will come in to say cannot rent out HDB until the bulk supply comes in 2015. Then alot of Singaporeans who own private and HDB will sell out one, most likely HDB.

Private property will rise until out of reach for most Singaporeans.

Then the young instead of complaining not enough HDB..... will complain private property out of reach.

Then again, maybe they will not.... coz they claim they are pursuing not the usual 5Cs..... and pursuing some highly spiritual 5Cs.... which I can't rememeber.

Private property officially becomes playground of the rich and Singaporeans can be proud of their HDB heritage! World Class Public Housing!!! Only Singaporeans can live in and can never move out!

[solsys]

The basis does not matter, it's the mentality of the young now.

I WANT IT AND I WANT IT CHEAP, AND I WANT TO RENT OUT MY BRAND NEW HDB WITHOUT 5 YEAR MOP. (Glad.....ys Chung)

NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH.

IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME, I WILL COMPLAIN OR VOTE YOU OUT.

[howgozit]

They can slap 4yrs 16% SSD on private properties and they can't do the same for HDB flats via simiar draconian measures? Simple lah, let me give them some suggestions:
1) Nobody is allowed to simultaneous own HDB flat and private properties. (They can either keep private or keep HDB).
2) 10 years MOP.
3) HDB flats for own stay only, cannot rent out!

I agree. Speaking from a citizen's standpoint, they don't sound draconian to me at all. Can't really remember but I think before 2003, the above measures were the norm right?

I remember for the longest time since the early '90s I have held the belief that as a private property owner I couldn't own a HDB but have never felt it to be unfair. When I first started out, I recall being advised strongly by friends not to touch private properties as that will forever deny me my right to a HDB(even a resale). Even in '91 after the first Iraq War when private was still affordable, people still favoured HDB so as not to lose the right to HDB.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I think most people on the forum will disagree with this.

[flxcat]

I agree. Speaking from a citizen's standpoint, they don't sound draconian to me at all. Can't really remember but I think before 2003, the above measures were the norm right?

I remember for the longest time since the early '90s I have held the belief that as a private property owner I couldn't own a HDB but have never felt it to be unfair. When I first started out, I recall being advised strongly by friends not to touch private properties as that will forever deny me my right to a HDB(even a resale). Even in '91 after the first Iraq War when private was still affordable, people still favoured HDB so as not to lose the right to HDB.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I think most people on the forum will disagree with this.

Sound logical. Maybe a less drastic approach is to introduce rental tax since HDB is subsidized flat as an interim to see if resales price can be tame. Then with more supply in both HDB n pte 2 to 3yrs later govt will be in a better position to work out a feasible and holistic solution.
All things need time to heal

[kingkong1984]

can lah.. give 6 months notice.. can impose anything thereafter.

[amk]

I support no rental of HDBs. It's even politically correct now: HDB should not be an instrument of profiting. Or at least make it very very difficult to rent out legally. I remember last time HDB cannot be rented out unless u r posted overseas or something. So it's nothing special.

Low end rental can be supported by the massive OCR condos.

And yes pte ptys are for the top 20%. Although I believe now no one dare to say that publicly. Will be condemned by all the "loud voices" in facebook.

Ppl have to know, in a free capitalist society/economy , it's just normal the top 20% will be significantly richer than the rest! The leader of HK just said something to that effect while commenting on HK pty prices.

[hyenergix]

Just heard that KBW has suspended all sales of land parcels for DBSS to review this tier of HDB flats... so they are reading our threads!

I don't think the HDB directors are so free as they are busy fighting fires now. DBSS is in a grey zone, and KBW made a mistake because he wasn't briefed properly when he took over HDB. This could be because DBSS land sales had generated so much cash for HDB/MOF that the government profited greatly from it instead of subsidising it.

[flxcat]

I support no rental of HDBs. It's even politically correct now: HDB should not be an instrument of profiting. Or at least make it very very difficult to rent out legally. I remember last time HDB cannot be rented out unless u r posted overseas or something. So it's nothing special.

Low end rental can be supported by the massive OCR condos.

And yes pte ptys are for the top 20%. Although I believe now no one dare to say that publicly. Will be condemned by all the "loud voices" in facebook.

Ppl have to know, in a free capitalist society/economy , it's just normal the top 20% will be significantly richer than the rest! The leader of HK just said something to that effect while commenting on HK pty prices.

With regards of lower end rental to be addressed by mass condo may not work well as mass condo had rocket high last 2yrs. So $500 per room rental will not work IMO.
If goes back to can rent out HDB flat but owner have to stay in will be back to sq one where lock rm rent out etc which leads to govt open the gate to rent out whole flat policy leading to current problem as officers are stretch to police non compliance.
Unless neighbors are step up to watch out any rowdiness or over crowded units with 3-4pax renting 1room.
Ever seen some flat housing 7pax from Malaysia as they are working for zhe char store so sharing 3 room flat can share cost.
In order not to degrade our living env is good to regulate so neighbors can help to uphold if any owner voilate purely for $ gain.

A gracious society is key andeveryone plays a great part on it

[sh]

The basis does not matter, it's the mentality of the young now.

I WANT IT AND I WANT IT CHEAP, AND I WANT TO RENT OUT MY BRAND NEW HDB WITHOUT 5 YEAR MOP. (Glad.....ys Chung)

NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH.

IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME, I WILL COMPLAIN OR VOTE YOU OUT.

AND I WANT IT NOW

[teddybear]

Easy wah, HDB flats can only rent out rooms, not whole unit. That will solve Govt's problem if they insist on creating low rental for single FWs. If FWs have families here they must be middle income and above ones, already can afford mass market condo rentals wah.
All renting out of rooms must be reported by owners. All FWs working in Singapore must also update their addresses when they change, otherwise they work permit will be cancelled and they have to leave immediately if discovered. That solves the problem of owners renting out whole units and also in policing these! Owners who rent out whole units will have their units compulsorily acquired at valuation and slapped with 16% SSD.

With regards of lower end rental to be addressed by mass condo may not work well as mass condo had rocket high last 2yrs. So $500 per room rental will not work IMO.
If goes back to can rent out HDB flat but owner have to stay in will be back to sq one where lock rm rent out etc which leads to govt open the gate to rent out whole flat policy leading to current problem as officers are stretch to police non compliance.
Unless neighbors are step up to watch out any rowdiness or over crowded units with 3-4pax renting 1room.
Ever seen some flat housing 7pax from Malaysia as they are working for zhe char store so sharing 3 room flat can share cost.
In order not to degrade our living env is good to regulate so neighbors can help to uphold if any owner voilate purely for $ gain.

A gracious society is key andeveryone plays a great part on it

[teddybear]

Give them now lah by forbidding foreign property owners to own HDB flats, sure got lots of immediate to occupy resale flats become available for sale!

AND I WANT IT NOW

[amk]

Fixcat, my point is , rent out room should also not be allowed. In short HDB is for living not to make profit. Also too much rental in HDB brews a lot of social problems.
Mass condo rental will come down. 2k rent for a 3rm HDB is not normal.

[hyenergix]

I support no rental of HDBs. It's even politically correct now: HDB should not be an instrument of profiting. Or at least make it very very difficult to rent out legally. I remember last time HDB cannot be rented out unless u r posted overseas or something. So it's nothing special.

Low end rental can be supported by the massive OCR condos.

And yes pte ptys are for the top 20%. Although I believe now no one dare to say that publicly. Will be condemned by all the "loud voices" in facebook.

Ppl have to know, in a free capitalist society/economy , it's just normal the top 20% will be significantly richer than the rest! The leader of HK just said something to that effect while commenting on HK pty prices.

HDB even sublets its own flats directly but distances itself by getting managing agents to do it for them. Chances of preventing subletting of HDB flats has serious repercussions because a lot of lowly paid foreign workers will be squeezed if they have to rent pte properties. Companies will have to raise their salaries that will in turn pass the higher cost to the general public. Some workers will resort to crimes to support their living costs here. Old folks who depend on rental to survive will face difficulties. But pte property landlords will rejoice. You only want to benefit the people who deserve the least help?

[ysyap]

Why not try something totally new and revolutionary? Have the option of selling the HDB back to govt on a sell back scheme like those old flats, but only now its much newer flats for certain amount like 80% of market value and govt will provide a fixed monthly payout equivalent to the current rental market so in return you secure a rental yield over the next 10 years after MOP, subjected to negotiation to ensure that the rental yield will definitely be more than the 20% of the flat which the sellers forfeited.

This will make many HDB owners surrender their HDB flats rather than holding on to it for rental yield over next 20 years or something! Its a take it or leave it scenario. If you sell to govt, you take some earnings to buy your next property and still have rental income. This deal would only hold for the first 10 years after MOP.

Then HDB will do up these flats like DBSS and sell at a slightly higher price with some added features like alarm and security for each individual unit, etc (can brainstorm further) to recuperate the losses incurred. Alternatively, HDB can also transform these flats into rental flats to recover their losses and so actually still earn in the long run. Here, HDB can tackle several problems at one go.

1. Can ensure that HDB resale supply is not terminated.
2. Can have continual supply in matured estates instead of looking for new land to build HDB in these places.
3. Help HDB upgarders fulfill their dreams of staying in condos.
4. Have more control over the public housing rental market

Much to debate about but that's just my whacky suggestion!

[hyenergix]

Why not try some totally new and revolutionary? Have the option of selling the HDB back to govt on a sell back scheme like those old flats, but only now its much newer flats for certain amount like 80% of market value and govt will provide a fixed monthly payout equivalent to the current rental market so in return you secure a rental yield over the next 10 years or something, subjected to negotiation to ensure that the rental yield will definitely be more than the 20% of the flat which the sellers forfeited.

This will make many HDB owners surrender their HDB flats rather than holding on to it for rental yield over next 20 years or something! Its a take it or leave it scenario. If you sell to govt, you take some earnings to buy your next property and still have rental income. This deal would only hold for the first 10 years after MOP.

Then HDB will do up these flats like DBSS and sell at a slightly higher price with some added features like alarm and security for each individual unit, etc (can brainstorm further). So can tackle several problems at one go.

1. Can ensure that HDB resale supply is not terminated.
2. Can have continual supply in matured estates instead of looking for new land to build HDB in these places.
3. Help HDB upgarders fulfill their dreams of staying in condos.

Much to debate about but that's just my whacky suggestion!

HDB needs to hold on to enormous amount of cash by borrowing from the banks. This could push it into deficit by virtual of its interests cost. In the event of economic crunch, HDB could collapse when everybody tries to sell back their flat to HDB because it is obliged to do so. I doubt HDB/MOF will agree to this $ losing scheme.

[ysyap]

HDB needs to hold on to enormous amount of cash by borrowing from the banks. This could push it into deficit by virtual of its interests cost. In the event of economic crunch, HDB could collapse when everybody tries to sell back their flat to HDB because it is obliged to do so. I doubt HDB/MOF will agree to this $ losing scheme.

Well HDB has the holding power so during down times, valuation of the flats would be very low and HDB take them back low and wait till market recovers and earn back 50% more??? The idea's pretty whacky, isn't it? If HDB cannot take such risks, no one else can!