what size/location of condo is best investment?

[Condo Kaiser]

Ya imagine thousands of these flippers trying to offload their units 3-4 years from now...

property prices need to go up at least 10% more for them to break even after BSD SSD and interest payments etc.

not all of them will come out of this alot richer...

[devilplate]

Now the flippers are only in new launch! Their target is to sell just before or during TOP! Heard too many of such buyers from my agents.

Tot tats vy common ?

Many projects tat gona TOP soon got lots of sellers now....

Buy new launch mentality, if can sell for gd profit....sell! Cannot den rent out....buy resale aso the same, prices shoot up liao, sell.....

Many of us here aso same....if profit is vy tempting, dun hf the intention to sell aso tink of selling lor....paper profit is imaginary until u sell it rite

[devilplate]

Ya imagine thousands of these flippers trying to offload their units 3-4 years from now...

property prices need to go up at least 10% more for them to break even after BSD SSD and interest payments etc.

not all of them will come out of this alot richer...

In a way its gd isnt it.....we got this golden window period to sell before they r able to! Whahaha

If not always any project sold out, the next day got ppl wana flip liao....haha...now at least goto wait 3-4yrs later.....less supply! Whaha

[teddybear]

Is that very common in your own words? Strange, why so common until MND doesn't know and can't come out with rules and regulations to deter such flippers which they say they want to target? They are that useless or??? Coffee shop talks ring ring ring?

Tot tats vy common ?

Many projects tat gona TOP soon got lots of sellers now....

Buy new launch mentality, if can sell for gd profit....sell! Cannot den rent out....buy resale aso the same, prices shoot up liao, sell.....

Many of us here aso same....if profit is vy tempting, dun hf the intention to sell aso tink of selling lor....paper profit is imaginary until u sell it rite

[devilplate]

Is that very common in your own words? Strange, why so common until MND doesn't know and can't come out with rules and regulations to deter such flippers which they say they want to target? They are that useless or??? Coffee shop talks ring ring ring?

Not common? Pls go n browse pptyguru on those projects tat going to TOP or jus TOP

those projects r launched way b4 all these CM

[howgozit]

Actually, I am not sure if selling after 3-4 years qualifies as flipping.

Leading up to the epic downturn in 1997, flipping was rampant and flippers were highly leveraged, holding several properties with minimum payment. I remember people were selling queue numbers to property launches and even these were flipped. Now that's real flipping...

[devilplate]

Conceptually and in a more straight forward, or even simplistic, way without further and detail analysis on the cash flow outlay (including mortgage installments/rental income/maintenance/property tax) , CM4 (4Y ssd + 60% LTV) has less impact on new launches because:

1) 40% downpayment for new launches is stretched over 1.5 year, vs immediate outflow of 40% hard cold cash up front for resale

2) 4Y SSD starting from the day that OTP is exercised, some people's perception of 4Y SSD is that for resales it is a bloody 4 full years, while for new launches it is only 1 year after TOP. However, this perception does not really have any solid basis and more like a "feel-less-terrible" effect

I would think CM4 as a whole is slightly more favorable toward new launches due to the 60% LTV

Analysts been toking abt low int rate fueled ppty demand....so buyer shd look at ready projects to get immediate returns on their banana notes? Buy new launches dun benefit from the low int rate now and their 20% cash got zero returns....put in fd at least got close to 1%? Hehe

Ps repeat again: 4yrs ssd prevents flipping which took away the main benefit of buying new launches

[teddybear]

Buying with no intention to take physical possession of the property, if this is not flipping then what is? That is why the volume of sub-sale transactions has always been used as a gauge of how many flipping taking place (and closedly monitored by URA). Based on what is happening now, sub-sale transactions will shot through the roof in 2014-2015!

Actually, I am not sure if selling after 3-4 years qualifies as flipping.

Leading up to the epic downturn in 1997, flipping was rampant and flippers were highly leveraged, holding several properties with minimum payment. I remember people were selling queue numbers to property launches and even these were flipped. Now that's real flipping...

[devilplate]

Actually, I am not sure if selling after 3-4 years qualifies as flipping.

Leading up to the epic downturn in 1997, flipping was rampant and flippers were highly leveraged, holding several properties with minimum payment. I remember people were selling queue numbers to property launches and even these were flipped. Now that's real flipping...

Same tot....

I suspect govt only consider flipping if the ppty is bot n sold within 4yrs....tats y they set a 4yrs ssd to prevent ppl from flipping....

In 07, the moment a project is fully sold, flipper trying to flip liao....make 30-50k aso flip ar! U see the sail, some units actually changed hands more den 4 times b4 TOP! Tats wat i call flip flip roti prata..hehe

[devilplate]

Buying with no intention to take physical possession of the property, if this is not flipping then what is? That is why the volume of sub-sale transactions has always been used as a gauge of how many flipping taking place (and closedly monitored by URA). Based on what is happening now, sub-sale transactions will shot through the roof in 2014-2015!

Ppty sold after TOP and b4 CSC also considered as subsale

[teddybear]

Yah lor, those new launch buyers appear so stupid to you (as you made them out to be), are they?
1) don't benefit low interest rate
2) 20% cash got no returns and no rental income
3) need to wait for 4years to TOP before can touch their property they bought!

BUT advantages :
1) people pay 40% downpayment immediate for a property (resale), they pay 20% immediate and the other 20% pay 2 years later.
2) the take possession of vacant brand new property, good for flipping!
3) If want to flip, don't want to take physical possession of the property, but hit with 4years SSD not much effect (vs resale) since they don't want to take possession of the property anyway and can flip when near TOP 4years later.

Mua ha ha! They don't seem so stupid after all! They are really smart aren't they?

Analysts been toking abt low int rate fueled ppty demand....so buyer shd look at ready projects to get immediate returns on their banana notes? Buy new launches dun benefit from the low int rate now and their 20% cash got zero returns....put in fd at least got close to 1%? Hehe

[devilplate]

Teddy, can i say u bey song govt give developer added advantage over resale market?

Without any cm, developer oredi got advantage by selling off the plans! last time worse, got deferred payment! Tats the best for flippers!

In order to be fair to resale market, developer can only sell upon TOP

[teddybear]

Wah, you are confirming that coffee shops talks are true?

Teddy, can i say u bey song govt give developer added advantage over resale market?

Without any cm, developer oredi got advantage by selling off the plans! last time worse, got deferred payment! Tats the best for flippers!

In order to be fair to resale market, developer can only sell upon TOP

[devilplate]

Wah, you are confirming that coffee shops talks are true?

Wat they toking abt?

But it will nvr happen la...

Mabe Govt shd aso ban subsale on top of 4yrs ssd....so those who bot from new launches can only sell after csc.....hehe

Den resale huat argh!

[amk]

Devil maybe we can do a poll, and see if most ppl agree CM4 favors new sale, ( or "affects resale more" )

Lighten up this a bit. U still looking to buy ? I'm out for the moment already. Not selling not buying. Going in equities now

[devilplate]

Devil maybe we can do a poll, and see if most ppl agree CM4 favors new sale, ( or "affects resale more" )

Lighten up this a bit. U still looking to buy ? I'm out for the moment already. Not selling not buying. Going in equities now

I ever since mid last yr oredi stop buying....might consider selling if prices up another 20% lor i still walking the ground...window shopping showflats....get the feel of the sentiment on the ground....u can try putting ur ready unit for sale n u will agree wif me tat its hot hot!

I still dare not enter equities yet.....

[azeoprop]

Yah loh, if I were to sell now, I can't upgrade or buy back for similar cash upfront....Thanks to the 60% loan thing. Somemore kena the 4 years ssd.

[amk]

20% I also sell. Then I will know 1st hand ha ha.

But I doubt OCR can run another 20 lah. For now leave it rented no big deal. I'm happy to be proven wrong though

Equities small small play lah. Some times just for fun to see my gut feeling rite or not

[ysyap]

Yah loh, if I were to sell now, I can't upgrade or buy back for similar cash upfront....Thanks to the 60% loan thing. Somemore kena the 4 years ssd.

If own stay then no need to worry abt 4 yr SSD. Just enter to buy. It's the investment that is . Must choose wisely. New or resale?

[devilplate]

20% I also sell. Then I will know 1st hand ha ha.

But I doubt OCR can run another 20 lah. For now leave it rented no big deal. I'm happy to be proven wrong though

Equities small small play lah. Some times just for fun to see my gut feeling rite or not

Actually i dun hf any ocr to sell....waiting for rcr n ccr to shine leh

[howgozit]

Buying with no intention to take physical possession of the property, if this is not flipping then what is?

Ha ha... ok you have a point.

I guess the term "flipping" is viewed differently by different people here. But globally the term is generally coined for the short time between transactions. Hence it's called a "flip", at 4 years its more like a "toss".

Btw, flipping can also occur on old projects as well so it may not show in subsale transactions.

Anyway what we think "flipping" means does not really matter. What matters is what MND think it means and what MND is trying to curb. And MND thinks of flipping as the short transaction interval.

Why? Bcoz what flipping does is to bring on an inflationary pressure on the price. At every transaction, the flipper adds a price increment. If there are no restrictions the prices will runaway as every flipper adds in a new increment in a very short time. This is exactly what is happening before CM4.(esp. in a favourable credit environment like now),

With CM4, the "flipper" as you call them can only add one increment to the price after 4 years and after that another 4 years before the next buyer can add another increment. 8 years!! for only 2 increments. If people still think prices will runaway like this, then go ahead, good luck!

To that end, I think MND has achieved its goal of curbing the effects flipping with CM4. In their view the inflationary pressure by flippers is seriously curtailed.

[devilplate]

Ha ha... ok you have a point.

I guess the term "flipping" is viewed differently by different people here. But globally the term is generally coined for the short time between transactions. Hence it's called a "flip", at 4 years its more like a "toss".

Btw, flipping can also occur on old projects as well so it may not show in subsale transactions.

Anyway what we think "flipping" means does not really matter. What matters is what MND think it means and what MND is trying to curb. And MND thinks of flipping as the short transaction interval.

Why? Bcoz what flipping does is to bring on an inflationary pressure on the price. At every transaction, the flipper adds a price increment. If there are no restrictions the prices will runaway as every flipper adds in a new increment in a very short time. This is exactly what is happening before CM4.(esp. in a favourable credit environment like now),

With CM4, the "flipper" as you call them can only add one increment to the price after 4 years and after that another 4 years before the next buyer can add another increment. 8 years!! for only 2 increments. If people still think prices will runaway like this, then go ahead, good luck!

To that end, I think MND has achieved its goal of curbing the effects flipping with CM4. In their view the inflationary pressure by flippers is seriously curtailed.

Totally agreed

[amk]

So no more CM ? HK did 50% LTV and no foreigner loan, SG can still out do them u know, if MBT style

[devilplate]

So no more CM ? HK did 50% LTV and no foreigner loan, SG can still out do them u know, if MBT style

How come ccr ppty in HK still doing well despite 50%ltv?

[ysyap]

So no more CM ? HK did 50% LTV and no foreigner loan, SG can still out do them u know, if MBT style

The fact of the matter is KBW style is simply so different from MBT style. Does MBT blog? Hmmm... anyway, KBW hasn't really reveal the plans he has up his sleeve. He kept giving assurance of knowing the ground plus reviewing the income ceiling plus the DBSS flat type. No action yet so must give a bit more time to know how he'll steer the MND... hope that more is done against developers and agents and not buyers and sellers only as with other CMs.

[devilplate]

The fact of the matter is KBW style is simply so different from MBT style. Does MBT blog? Hmmm... anyway, KBW hasn't really reveal the plans he has up his sleeve. He kept giving assurance of knowing the ground plus reviewing the income ceiling plus the DBSS flat type. No action yet so must give a bit more time to know how he'll steer the MND... hope that more is done against developers and agents and not buyers and sellers only as with other CMs.

Actually if developers cant sell, resale px will be affected too....

I m more den happy to see developers selling well at record px rather den the situation now....

[teddybear]

Because they don't have 4 years 16% SSD!
So HK policy is less harsh.

How come ccr ppty in HK still doing well despite 50%ltv?

[devilplate]

Because they don't have 4 years 16% SSD!
So HK policy is less harsh.

Ya hor...they only 2yrs ssd rite?

No wonder u virtually shifting ur money out of sg

[DaytonaSS]

Ps repeat again: 4yrs ssd prevents flipping which took away the main benefit of buying new launches

then its clear y pple are still buying~~! they are buying so they can stay in a new "nice" showroom glam factor house in few years time while they save up!!! Thats y OCR launches chonging!!! Pple are buying to stay near parents!

Investors will go resale for immediate rental gratification.

[Regulators]

which part of singapore are you walking the ground now? I am looking to get another ocr, new launch ocr if the price and location right or resale ocr if price and rental yield hard to resist.

I ever since mid last yr oredi stop buying....might consider selling if prices up another 20% lor i still walking the ground...window shopping showflats....get the feel of the sentiment on the ground....u can try putting ur ready unit for sale n u will agree wif me tat its hot hot!

I still dare not enter equities yet.....