Do you like your property value to goes up while you have no plan to move.....

[westman]

Medication is very important in our life, once a person is seriously ill and need to be hospitalised, his performance will definitely drop, worst still, he might even lost his job, so is it that this person has to sell off his pte properties and used up all his money before he can get subsidy from the govt. I heard that staying in which class of ward will depends on your house, if you stay in a pte ppty, you cannot stay in Class C, is it true? We always tell ourselves, can die but cannot fall sick because medication is so expensive.

I have known someone who stayed in a 3 room HDB flat in central, then shifted to a 5 room HDB flat (central also), recently, she wants to upgrade, so she shifted to a $2m apartment just because she said she is so used to staying in the central. AND her family has 2 cars, one BMW and the other is Toyota xxx. So what does this tells?

Hmmm, I think housing type should not be part of consideration for subsidy unless....that person can generate income via housing...

[howgozit]

I have known someone who stayed in a 3 room HDB flat in central, then shifted to a 5 room HDB flat (central also), recently, she wants to upgrade, so she shifted to a $2m apartment just because she said she is so used to staying in the central. AND her family has 2 cars, one BMW and the other is Toyota xxx. So what does this tells?

I don't know... what does this tell?

[howgozit]

Just like this year additional medisave, I think it was based on the yearly income. Actually, they should look at our MONTHLY INCOME and NOT YEARLY INCOME because yearly income includes bonus, commission, allowances, overtime etc which are all depends on the company & personal performance for that year.

Of course it has to be yearly income! Precisely because it has all the components that you mentioned. That is the true reflection of the money you are earning.

[zzz1]

Was discussing about property tax while having lunch today with a few colleagues of mine who stay in private condo and most of them own only 1 property and they do not expect to move in near term.

Apparently, most of them received their property revalued upward by IRA around Feb/Mar, right after garment announced this year budget.

Conclusion by this group of kakis: With property price at all time high and coupled with high rental market thus resulting in hiking in property tax, it seem like counter-benefit to those own-stay private condo owners now unless they exit private condo and downgrade to HDB.

What your take on this?

I think your kaki is quietly happy while complaining the tax. Personally who want a low asset even there reduced/no tax.?

[westman]

I think your kaki is quietly happy while complaining the tax. Personally who want a low asset even there reduced/no tax.?

Not really. As a matter of fact, most of now are reaching 55 yrs soon....
Thus, their concern: can they continue to afford to stay in condo after they retired given zero income and the never ending hiking in property taxes while at the same time not entitling to most citizen's benefits.....

Our time will come thus I would like to know what other options avail when we reach the retirement age....

[howgozit]

Not really. As a matter of fact, most of now are reaching 55 yrs soon....
Thus, their concern: can they continue to afford to stay in condo after they retired given zero income and the never ending hiking in property taxes while at the same time not entitling to most citizen's benefits.....

Our time will come thus I would like to know what other options avail when we reach the retirement age....

Hi Westman,

Forgive me if this sounds rude. I am also not young myself and I can empathise with you and your kakis' apprehension of your impending retirement.

I'll put it to you straight. If you have to worry about the property tax, it probably means you can't afford to stay in a private property. Downgrade to a more affordable accomodation to live out your retirement. This is not being snobbish or elitist, but facing up to reality and being practical about it.

Don't waste your life blaming the government or anything like that. If the annual value is up, its means those of us that are renting out our properties are doing it at a higher price and therefore getting better returns. To me it is a small price to pay.

Apologies if this causes offence.

[flagship74]

Probably for those whom gonna retire soon, what we can do is to rent out the condo and get ourselves stay at a HDB flat. The money ( after offsetting the condo and HDB) that we collected from rental might help to tide of true in some extend.

[Regulators]

How can your friends even call themselves retirees if they have to worry about all these miscellaneous costs . Financial planning for retirement has to include all these costs otherwise they need to downgrade.

Not really. As a matter of fact, most of now are reaching 55 yrs soon....
Thus, their concern: can they continue to afford to stay in condo after they retired given zero income and the never ending hiking in property taxes while at the same time not entitling to most citizen's benefits.....

Our time will come thus I would like to know what other options avail when we reach the retirement age....

[westman]

How can your friends even call themselves retirees if they have to worry about all these miscellaneous costs . Financial planning for retirement has to include all these costs otherwise they need to downgrade.

No lah, they still have around five years to go...
They are not investment savvy neither they invest in stocks or what so ever.
At he moment, they have no problem to meet every daily needs.

However, they are assuming the worst case scenario when they have ZERO incomes while at the same time continue to live in private condo. Till then, they would have to spend at least 4k to 6k yearly to upkeep they desire to stay in private. After the debate, they conclude that downgrading to HDB seem inevitable if they want to trim living costs wor...

[westman]

Hi Westman,

Forgive me if this sounds rude. I am also not young myself and I can empathise with you and your kakis' apprehension of your impending retirement.
I'll put it to you straight. If you have to worry about the property tax, it probably means you can't afford to stay in a private property. Downgrade to a more affordable accomodation to live out your retirement. This is not being snobbish or elitist, but facing up to reality and being practical about it.

Don't waste your life blaming the government or anything like that. If the annual value is up, its means those of us that are renting out our properties are doing it at a higher price and therefore getting better returns. To me it is a small price to pay.

Apologies if this causes offence.

No problem, bro.
Affordability is not a concern to them. Question is: will living costs continue to rise and if it is so, does it make sense to contniue to upkeep a private?

Also per my earlier posting, tins group of kakis don't really into in estment and they own only one property (mostly paid up Liao).

To them, they would profer to trim costs, cash out the private and use the $ to fund their retirement expenses ( eg: traveling while they still able to walk...) . I kinda agree with them that with Zero income, a five cent coin also worth a lot wor....

[Regulators]

I feel singapore is a very very expensive place to retire. Look at your lifestyle now and ask yourself the interested collected from your $1 mil fixed d is enough for you to spend monthly. In time to come, with property fully paid and $1 mil in the bank also not enough to retire. The truth is majority of singaporeans can't afford to retire. Most old folks I know still do minor jobs and are only semi retired.

No lah, they still have around five years to go...
They are not investment savvy neither they invest in stocks or what so ever.
At he moment, they have no problem to meet every daily needs.

However, they are assuming the worst case scenario when they have ZERO incomes while at the same time continue to live in private condo. Till then, they would have to spend at least 4k to 6k yearly to upkeep they desire to stay in private. After the debate, they conclude that downgrading to HDB seem inevitable if they want to trim living costs wor...

[Arcachon]

[Arcachon]

[howgozit]

No problem, bro.
Affordability is not a concern to them. Question is: will living costs continue to rise and if it is so, does it make sense to contniue to upkeep a private?

Also per my earlier posting, tins group of kakis don't really into in estment and they own only one property (mostly paid up Liao).

To them, they would profer to trim costs, cash out the private and use the $ to fund their retirement expenses ( eg: traveling while they still able to walk...) . I kinda agree with them that with Zero income, a five cent coin also worth a lot wor....

If you want to continue staying in a private and it's nearly or fully paid up, there is still one more option. REVERSE MORTGAGE

Be very careful with it though, do some research and know the pitfalls.

[Arcachon]

I feel singapore is a very very expensive place to retire. Look at your lifestyle now and ask yourself the interested collected from your $1 mil fixed d is enough for you to spend monthly. In time to come, with property fully paid and $1 mil in the bank also not enough to retire. The truth is majority of singaporeans can't afford to retire. Most old folks I know still do minor jobs and are only semi retired.

"Saving money is not smart because what we think of as money is no longer money." by Robert Kiyosaki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb...5F06403D07A15C

[howgozit]

Common questions on reverse mortgages

What is a reverse mortgage?
A reverse mortgage is a financial scheme that allows customers to borrow against the value of their property and receive a cash advance from the lender, either in a lump sum or a series of regular payouts.
The loan is repayable when the property is sold, usually upon the death of the borrower or expiry of the mortgage tenure. Reverse mortgages help homeowners who are asset-rich but cash-poor to stay in their homes and still meet their financial obligations.
In Singapore, reverse mortgages are primarily targeted at senior citizens, providing them with an option to unlock the inherent value of their property through monetary payouts and enhance their retirement needs.

How is a reverse mortgage different from a traditional home loan?
In a traditional home loan, customers make monthly repayments to the lender. But in a reverse mortgage, customers receive monthly payouts from the lender. The loan is repayable when the property is sold, usually upon the death of the borrower or expiry of the mortgage tenure.

Why was the concept of reverse mortgages introduced in Singapore?
The reverse mortgage scheme was one of the options mooted by the government to provide another option for the growing number of senior citizens in Singapore to derive some income from their homes to meet expenditure in old age, without having to move out of their homes.
According to a report prepared by the Committee on Ageing Issues, we will witness an unprecedented age shift between now and 2030. Singapore's population is still relatively young today but this will change significantly over the next six to 24 years. The number of residents aged 65 years or older will increase from 8.4 per cent in 2005 to 18.7 per cent in 2030. In absolute terms, seniors will multiply threefold from the current 300,000 to 900,000 in 2030. By then, one out of every five residents will be a senior. A large proportion of these seniors is expected to be asset-rich but cash-poor.
One of the biggest worries in their retirement years will be financial security. Hence the government has since suggested that reverse mortgage is an additional option to help the elderly monetise, or unlock the value in their property, for a comfortable retirement in addition to various other solutions such as support from their children, downgrading their properties and even continuing with some form of employment.

When were reverse mortgages first made available in Singapore?
Reverse mortgages have been available in Singapore since 1994 when NTUC Income first introduced the scheme for private property owners. Beside NTUC Income, OCBC Bank is currently the only other financial institution to offer reverse mortgages for homeowners of private properties.
Shortly after HDB relaxed its regulations in March 2006 to allow elderly HDB home owners to take up reverse mortgages on commercial terms offered by banks and financial institutions in Singapore, NTUC Income launched reverse mortgages on HDB flats.
Is reverse mortgage a popular financing scheme in other countries?
Reverse mortgages are available in the US, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. The market for this product differs from region to region. For example, the market in the US is relatively regulated. In the UK, there is a wider range of such financing schemes available compared to the US and Australia. Reverse mortgages are fairly new in Australia.

How popular are reverse mortgages in Singapore currently and why?
The concept of reverse mortgages is a relatively new concept in Singapore. As more and more Singaporeans head towards retirement, reverse mortgages can be a viable option for them to look to when looking for solutions to supplement their income. With longer life expectancy, many senior citizens are concerned about the rising costs of living and reduced income streams during retirement. This is a reality which affects everyone whether he or she is a private property or HDB flat owner.
Currently, there are already various solutions that senior citizens can rely on. For those who did not plan early and want to supplement their income during their retirement, they now can consider a reverse mortgage as an additional option.

Who should take up a reverse mortgage?
Senior citizens who have fully or almost fully paid for their property and wish to supplement funds for their retirement needs can consider taking up a reverse mortgage.
Before taking up a reverse mortgage, there are other options available if customers are looking for additional cashflows. For example, customers can choose to rent a place after selling their property. The excess funds from the sale can be used to buy an annuity product to provide regular payouts. Another option is to lease out their property for rental income. Yet another alternative is to use their excess CPF funds to invest in an annuity product for regular payouts.

What are the different types of reverse mortgages currently available in Singapore?
In the US and UK, there are various types of reverse mortgage schemes that vary primarily in their payout limits, payout patterns, processing fees and approved properties. In Singapore, NTUC Income's term-based reverse mortgage is available to both private and HDB home owners while OCBC is the only bank offering reverse mortgage for private properties that comes with two different loan options - term-based and annuity-linked - to address the different retirement preferences of senior citizens.
With the term-based option, customers will receive a monthly payout for up to 25 years or when they reach 90 years of age, whichever is earlier. However, for those who are concerned about outliving the payouts, there is the annuity-linked option. With the term-based plan, customers can expect to receive a higher monthly payout compared with the annuity-linked plan, although the latter has the added advantage of providing the customer with payouts for life.

Which scheme is better - the term-based plan or the annuity-linked plan?
This will depend on the customer's needs. For the term plan, the monthly sum that the customer receives will be higher compared to the annuity-linked reverse mortgage. For the annuity-linked plan, the customer has the assurance that the monthly payout is for the rest of his or her life although the monthly payout is lower.
After working out the amounts with the financial institution, customers should discuss with their family members before deciding on which plan to take up.

What is the amount of monthly payouts that can be obtained between the different types of reverse mortgage scheme?
The monthly payouts under each scheme will depend on several factors including property value, loan tenure and whether the property has been pledged under the CPF Minimum Sum Scheme.

[Arcachon]

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2...28-157639.html

Couple sue NTUC Income over reverse mortgage deal gone sour

By Chew Xiang

A couple are suing NTUC Income - in what is seen as a test case - over a reverse mortgage deal in which their property was sold amidst falling property prices.
Derek Chua, who is in his 70s and his wife Colleen Ng, who is in her late 50s, claim they lost their matrimonial home at Upper Serangoon in 2006.
NTUC Income demanded repayment of a loan procured in 1997 under a reverse mortgage, and the couple claim they had to sell their home to repay it, according to a writ of summons filed earlier this month and seen by BT.
The company's chief financial officer Jeffrey Lee said in an emailed statement that NTUC Income had been 'more than reasonable' in trying to help the borrowers and that the couple had been advised on the terms of the deal.
The couple claimed that the 1997 reverse mortgage valued their house at $2.1 million, and based on a loan to valuation ratio of at most 80 per cent, they were given $495,000 cash to pay off their previous mortgage and payments of up to $2,000 a month.
In May 2004, the couple were told the value of their house had dropped to $1.1 million and they were in breach of the 80 per cent loan to valuation limit, based on the outstanding loan amount of $926,000.
According to the couple, they were told to top up $46,400 to bring the ratio down to the 80 per cent limit, and their monthly payments of $2,000 were reduced in steps to $1,500 from October that year.
A year later, in October 2005, NTUC Income said the outstanding loan, at $1.014 million, exceeded the 80 per cent limit based on the property value of $1.15 million. The couple were told they would get just $300 a month until June 2006, after which the company would 'exercise (its) right to recall the property for auction sale'. The couple could also procure a buyer on their own or find another place to stay, according to a letter from NTUC Income, the couple said.
By then, the couple owed $1,045,802.91. On June 30, solicitors for NTUC Income sent the couple a letter demanding repayment or else face legal proceedings
The couple handed over possession of their property on Aug 31, according to their writ.
The property was later sold for just over $1 million, leaving an alleged shortfall of about $55,000, which the couple were asked to pay.
They claim that if not for NTUC Income's letter, they would not have sold the property - which in 2008 was again sold for about $1.5 million, the writ says.
NTUC Income has yet to file its defence.
The couple have engaged senior counsel Michael Khoo through legal aid. NTUC Income is represented by Rodyk & Davidson.

[howgozit]

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2...28-157639.html

Couple sue NTUC Income over reverse mortgage deal gone sour

By Chew Xiang

A couple are suing NTUC Income - in what is seen as a test case - over a reverse mortgage deal in which their property was sold amidst falling property prices.
Derek Chua, who is in his 70s and his wife Colleen Ng, who is in her late 50s, claim they lost their matrimonial home at Upper Serangoon in 2006.
NTUC Income demanded repayment of a loan procured in 1997 under a reverse mortgage, and the couple claim they had to sell their home to repay it, according to a writ of summons filed earlier this month and seen by BT.
The company's chief financial officer Jeffrey Lee said in an emailed statement that NTUC Income had been 'more than reasonable' in trying to help the borrowers and that the couple had been advised on the terms of the deal.
The couple claimed that the 1997 reverse mortgage valued their house at $2.1 million, and based on a loan to valuation ratio of at most 80 per cent, they were given $495,000 cash to pay off their previous mortgage and payments of up to $2,000 a month.
In May 2004, the couple were told the value of their house had dropped to $1.1 million and they were in breach of the 80 per cent loan to valuation limit, based on the outstanding loan amount of $926,000.
According to the couple, they were told to top up $46,400 to bring the ratio down to the 80 per cent limit, and their monthly payments of $2,000 were reduced in steps to $1,500 from October that year.
A year later, in October 2005, NTUC Income said the outstanding loan, at $1.014 million, exceeded the 80 per cent limit based on the property value of $1.15 million. The couple were told they would get just $300 a month until June 2006, after which the company would 'exercise (its) right to recall the property for auction sale'. The couple could also procure a buyer on their own or find another place to stay, according to a letter from NTUC Income, the couple said.
By then, the couple owed $1,045,802.91. On June 30, solicitors for NTUC Income sent the couple a letter demanding repayment or else face legal proceedings
The couple handed over possession of their property on Aug 31, according to their writ.
The property was later sold for just over $1 million, leaving an alleged shortfall of about $55,000, which the couple were asked to pay.
They claim that if not for NTUC Income's letter, they would not have sold the property - which in 2008 was again sold for about $1.5 million, the writ says.
NTUC Income has yet to file its defence.
The couple have engaged senior counsel Michael Khoo through legal aid. NTUC Income is represented by Rodyk & Davidson.

This is precisely why the value of your property needs to hold up and go beyond. The meagre increase in property tax is nothing.

Like I said before, know the pitfalls and do your research there are many options. Decide wisely.

[Arcachon]

By Donna Rosato June 30, 2009: 7:00 AM ET

For an elderly person with few assets, a reverse mortgage can be a lifesaver: It enables cashpoor retirees to tap equity in their house for living expenses, home repairs or health care needs. If you're 62 or older, reverse mortgages allow you to borrow against the value of your home and not repay the loan until you sell the house, move out or die. If the amount owed is more than the
value of the house, the lender eats the difference. If it's less, you (or your heirs) keep what's left over after paying off the loan. In the meantime, the loan provides income, which you can take as a lump sum, monthly payout or line of credit drawn on as needed. But make no mistake: Reverse mortgages, which come with high fees and hefty interest charges, are a costly option and often sold by aggressive salespeople who push inappropriate financial products on vulnerable seniors. That's why Senator Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) held hearings Monday in St. Louis on reverse mortgages. A year and a half ago, Sen. McCaskill began investigating problems associated with reverse mortgages, including predatory lending, aggressive marketing and the potential risks to the federal government -- which insures 90% of reverse mortgage loans. Comptroller of the Currency John Dugan earlier this month said reverse mortgages bear a striking similarity to the risky sub-prime mortgages that got so many Americans in financial hot water. The Federal Housing Administration estimates it may lose $800 million from insuring these loans in the next fiscal year. Yet the number of people getting reverse mortgages keeps rising. Even as home values are falling (leaving seniors with less equity to tap), more than 112,000 reverse mortgage loans were made in 2008, up from about 22,000 in 2003, according to the National Reverse Mortgage Lenders Association. Monthly reverse mortgage loan volume is setting records too, with nearly 9,000 reverse mortgages made in May. My colleague Walter Updegrave wrote about the problems with reverse mortgages last year, spelling out how greedy salespeople not only persuade seniors to take out high commission reverse mortgages, but also convince them to spend the proceeds on high-priced financial products such annuities, boosting their commissions even more. Retiree advocates at AARP say that predatory lenders are also attempting to get seniors to use proceeds of their reverse mortgage to buy expensive long-term-care insurance. But in most cases, it makes more sense for seniors to use the payout for actual long-term care, not a hard-touse insurance policy. If you are considering taking out a reverse mortgage or have a parent or family member who is, don't fall for a pitch from a salesman who cares more about a lucrative commission than determining whether a reverse mortgage makes sense for you. To learn more about reverse mortgages, check out resources at AARP and HUD.

http://moremoney.blogs.money.cnn.com...rtgage-ripoff/

[DC33_2008]

How much can one saves if one's pie does not grow? $1m is not much now. There are so many millionaires in Singapore now.

"Saving money is not smart because what we think of as money is no longer money." by Robert Kiyosaki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb...5F06403D07A15C

[sh]

I feel singapore is a very very expensive place to retire. Look at your lifestyle now and ask yourself the interested collected from your $1 mil fixed d is enough for you to spend monthly. In time to come, with property fully paid and $1 mil in the bank also not enough to retire. The truth is majority of singaporeans can't afford to retire. Most old folks I know still do minor jobs and are only semi retired.

The truth is that many of us in this forum has realized that savings in cash (with miniscule int) in not the way to retire. That's why we can looking at property as the way to a earlier retirement.

Some of us has already made it ....
Some or on their way ....
Some are just beginning.....

[irisng]

She strikes the TOTO recently? Just joking. Rich people can stay anyhere and own small car too. They use the spare cash to invest in properties.

That's why, never judge a person by the look. She looks thrifty and a very simple dressed woman. She is a housewife and had only primary school education but her husband is a business man. Another reason why she likes to stay in the central is because she also wants to stay near her mother. I heard that her husband gave her all his monthly salary and in turn get some allowance from her for his monthly usage. Wow, so good hor! Where to find such a good husband nowadays?

[irisng]

I don't know... what does this tell?

It means that not all people who stay in HDB flats are poor and vice versa.

[irisng]

Probably for those whom gonna retire soon, what we can do is to rent out the condo and get ourselves stay at a HDB flat. The money ( after offsetting the condo and HDB) that we collected from rental might help to tide of true in some extend.

But if you have a pte condo, you cannot buy HDB leh, so have to sell the condo first.

[howgozit]

That's why, never judge a person by the look. She looks thrifty and a very simple dressed woman. She is a housewife and had only primary school education but her husband is a business man. Another reason why she likes to stay in the central is because she also wants to stay near her mother. I heard that her husband gave her all his monthly salary and in turn get some allowance from her for his monthly usage. Wow, so good hor! Where to find such a good husband nowadays?

[quote=irisng]It means that not all people who stay in HDB flats are poor and vice versa.[quote]

Thrifty? Stay HDB but drive 2 cars, BMW and Toyota?.... hmmm not very thrifty leh...

You are right to say you can't judge a person by the look. So while you can't say that a person who stays in a HDB is poor, on the same token you also can't say that a person who stays in a $2M condo in the central and have 2 cars mean that they are rich.

[flagship74]

But if you have a pte condo, you cannot buy HDB leh, so have to sell the condo first.

Hi Irising, i'm actually refer to rent a HDB.

[Regulators]

Then we should welcome foreign talents with open arms otherwise who is going to rent from us when we grow old.

The truth is that many of us in this forum has realized that savings in cash (with miniscule int) in not the way to retire. That's why we can looking at property as the way to a earlier retirement.

Some of us has already made it ....
Some or on their way ....
Some are just beginning.....

[ysyap]

You are right to say you can't judge a person by the look. So while you can't say that a person who stays in a HDB is poor, on the same token you also can't say that a person who stays in a $2M condo in the central and have 2 cars mean that they are rich.

Well in today's context, if you drive two new cars in Singapore, you are rich if those 2 cars are yours. Just look at the COE... COE alone is more expensive than most cat A Jap/Kor cars le. COE paid is money lost.

[DC33_2008]

I heard from my parents that they know of a lady whose husband is a taxi driver and bought 3 terrace houses 40 years ago. They sure are very thrifty as they used rain water to wash their plates. They really have foresight as such houses would have gone up by few hundred times.

That's why, never judge a person by the look. She looks thrifty and a very simple dressed woman. She is a housewife and had only primary school education but her husband is a business man. Another reason why she likes to stay in the central is because she also wants to stay near her mother. I heard that her husband gave her all his monthly salary and in turn get some allowance from her for his monthly usage. Wow, so good hor! Where to find such a good husband nowadays?

[DC33_2008]

Why donate $6000-$7000/year to garment?

Well in today's context, if you drive two new cars in Singapore, you are rich if those 2 cars are yours. Just look at the COE... COE alone is more expensive than most cat A Jap/Kor cars le. COE paid is money lost.