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Thread: Does it makes sense to buy Mass mrt if you are now qualified to buy EC?

  1. #1
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    Default Does it makes sense to buy Mass mrt if you are now qualified to buy EC?

    Please share your views, I am the affected lot. M waiting for market to crash with enough cash for Private. Now I can qualify for EC, should I change my target? Have been waiting eagerly to jump in for a freehold apartment, have always favour FH. EC is LH99, but compared to LH mass condo, it is v much cheaper. The only difference is to hold it for at least 10 years. It makes no diff to me since it will be for own stay, or rather long term investment. Good news for revised income ceiling, but at the same time, caught in a dilema

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    Well if MOP is not a factor and you are not planning to rent out but rather its for own stay, plus you can wait 3 years for the construction, then go for EC. Its quite obvious! Save the remaining cash and pamper yourself with a Europe tour or something! Now very cheap to go there!

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    No need to hold for 10 yrs. MOP is 5 and some EC, time to TOP is 3.

    EC offers price cushion from price falls but the thing is location as there are not that many to choose from. If you don't mind the location and the MOP, then the choice is obvious.

    I am guessing there are a lot of people like you who will "migrate" to EC because of the $$ saved

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    Quote Originally Posted by propbull1628
    No need to hold for 10 yrs. MOP is 5 and some EC, time to TOP is 3.

    EC offers price cushion from price falls but the thing is location as there are not that many to choose from. If you don't mind the location and the MOP, then the choice is obvious.

    I am guessing there are a lot of people like you who will "migrate" to EC because of the $$ saved
    I think the developers would surely increase their EC prices.
    As for mass market condo owners, i think they are pressured and prices will drop a little. My opinion is to find a good mass mkt condo (location wise) and squeeze or use scare tactic to get the owner to part at a lower price. If the price between ulu location EC against better location mass mkt condo is marginal or affordable (note: low interest rate), i would still buy mass mkt.

    This comparison is only for LH99 mass mkt against EC.

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    I think prices for both categories will drop steadily before the glut. After 2013, you can buy very much more cheaply

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    Assuming buying an EC or mass mkt and live for 10 years. After ten years, which has higher appreciation? Can the resale price be on par like the mass mkt nearby after 10 yrs? For eg, I bought EC 3 bedder at $650K, or mass mkt similar location at $900K, after 10 years, will both be selling at a similar resale price? Or will the EC status command a lower resale value?

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    I sense that you are quite affected by the new ceiling.

    First, ask yourself, what is your primary purpose? Self Stay or Investment? It will become clearer.

    Then as a first time buyer, what would you go for?

    We can talk about second timer thereafter.

    If it is for self stay, you will find the most desirable location according to your own requirements. Work location, childrenschool location, you and your partner's preference. Given that the choices are limited, you will zoom in at a District and a particular location or two. 1 Km or 2 Km rule to your future center of Universe (Primary School!)

    Next comes the ability check.


    Many at times, couples want the best located, biggest unit, best facing, design condo etc. But do they have enough money? This will lower and moderate their preferences and settle for something that could serve their needs. That is when the increased income ceiling will be helpful. Solve their problem between buying resale, buying new BTO or new Condo. They will have more choices now, in terms of location, flat types and prices.

    If for investment... they should go for private directly, Buy 2, 3, 4 units etc and not be restrained by MOP. But second rule applies, ability check!

    Then the most important question, as a first timer. Do you want to go slow and steady or fast and furious. It can turn both ways and u either make it or you dont. Given Singaporean mindset, most would go for subsidised housing which is BTO and EC. Only a few with the extra cash would go for PC. The most important question is about the BUC and MOP period. Let's say 3+5 = 8 years. You need to ask yourself would you be able to come up with 40% cash+cpf for your next purchase in 8 years time. If the answer is clearly no. Live and accept the MOP (Make One Purchase) as fate! Conservative figures is at $400k.

    Therefore, past investors buying ahead of the curve to catch the $8k to $12k group will lose some of them, I say most of them as more and more of the subsidised housing come onboard. People buying ahead of the curve are on a curve down.. slow and steady and ahead of the pack in having a hard time to find buyers at a good price.

    Discounts Discounts Discounts.... hurry hurry hurry...

    Not meant as a advise, just some rant for free. Caveat venditor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montaigne
    Assuming buying an EC or mass mkt and live for 10 years. After ten years, which has higher appreciation? Can the resale price be on par like the mass mkt nearby after 10 yrs? For eg, I bought EC 3 bedder at $650K, or mass mkt similar location at $900K, after 10 years, will both be selling at a similar resale price? Or will the EC status command a lower resale value?
    Just to share my experience.
    I owned an EC which is 12 years old, has fully privatised.
    Its resale price is better than nearby similar aged mass market condo.
    As I understand, it command a better price caused of better upkeep and its environment.
    Credit has to be given to my team of council members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ymgsterling
    Just to share my experience.
    I owned an EC which is 12 years old, has fully privatised.
    Its resale price is better than nearby similar aged mass market condo.
    As I understand, it command a better price caused of better upkeep and its environment.
    Credit has to be given to my team of council members.
    Best performing EC. Bishan Loft.

    See its performance versus Bishan 8.. EC Rocks!

    see this outdated list but could be helpful too..

    http://www.singaporerealestate.info/...-in-singapore/

    http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News...-284633/2.html

    Bishan Loft was launched in 2001 at an average price of $421 psf. Its average resale price in 2011 was $918 psf, a 118 per cent increase. Bishan 8, a nearby private condominium, saw only a 65 per cent increase in average resale prices from $643 psf in 2001 to $1,064 psf in 2011, well below Bishan Loft's appreciation.

    Business @ AsiaOne
    EC to see the returns
    Executive condominiums outstrips private developments when it comes to price appreciation. -tabla!

    Sat, Jun 18, 2011
    tabla!
    By Karamjit Singh

    ALTHOUGH a small country, Singapore has a housing market that may seem somewhat complicated to newcomers.

    Newly-arrived expatriates often wonder and enquire about the differences between new HDB flats, HDB resale flats, private residential properties (which include landed and non-landed varieties) and executive condominiums or ECs as they are commonly referred to.

    Growing value of completed executive condominiums

    Click on thumbnail to view View tablePut simply, the different housing types are the outcome of housing policies to cater to different levels of affordability. ECs were introduced to the housing market in 1996 to cater to the "sandwich class" - those who could not qualify for public housing (HDB flats) nor afford private housing which is more expensive.

    However there are eligibility requirements for new EC buyers. For example, only citizens can purchase a new EC; then too, provided their monthly household income is within the ceiling of $10,000.

    Buyers of new ECs are subject to a minimum occupation period (MOP) of five years after which they are able to sell on the open market to citizens or permanent residents. If they want to sell to any buyer (including foreigners and companies), they have to complete MOP of 10 years.

    Next >>

    Growth of the EC resale market
    Today, there are 23 EC developments with 10,430 completed units ranging in age from three to 12 years. Therefore many of the original owners who have fulfilled at least the five-year MOP are selling their ECs on the open market.

    In 2010, there were 989 EC resale transactions (based on caveats lodged) or 9.5 per cent of the total existing EC stock. By comparison, resale transactions in the private residential market were 7.4 per cent of total private residential stock in 2010.

    The strong new sale transaction numbers from 1996 to 2003 were due to the launch of numerous EC projects following the implementation of the EC scheme. New projects moderated after 2003 as the residential property market went through a sluggish period but it picked up last year thanks to the buoyant market.

    The EC resale market started to pick up perceptibly in 2005 with 209 transactions and gained momentum (except in 2008 due to the downturn) till 2010 when 989 resales were recorded.

    The gallery in this article lists the 23 existing EC developments here and provides an estimate of their capital appreciation from the year of launch to 2011. An analysis comparing ECs with similar private condominium projects in different locations and over different time frames throws up interesting findings.

    Westmere, an EC in Jurong, was launched in 1996 at $400 psf. By 2011, its resale transactions averaged $707 psf - a price appreciation of 77 per cent. In its vicinity, private condominium Parc Oasis saw its average price of $666 psf in 1996 rise to $760 psf in 2011 - a 14 per cent increase, but well below what Westmere has achieved.

    Growing value of completed executive condominiums

    Click on thumbnail to view View tableIn Woodlands, Northoaks may be compared to Woodgrove Condominium, a private development. The former had an average price of $385 psf in 1998 which rose to $593 psf in 2011, an appreciation of 53 per cent. Over the same period, the latter's average price rose 27 per cent, from $464 psf in 1998 to $590 psf in 2011, less than that of Northoaks.

    Bishan Loft was launched in 2001 at an average price of $421 psf. Its average resale price in 2011 was $918 psf, a 118 per cent increase. Bishan 8, a nearby private condominium, saw only a 65 per cent increase in average resale prices from $643 psf in 2001 to $1,064 psf in 2011, well below Bishan Loft's appreciation.

    Over at Ang Mo Kio, Nuovo was launched in 2001 at an average price of $395 psf which rose to $746 psf in 2011, an 89 per cent increase. Castle Green, a private condominium next door, saw its average resale prices increase from $534 psf in 2001 to $729 psf in 2011, a 37 per cent increase but much below Nuovo's upside.

    In Bukit Batok, The Dew came on the market in 2001 averaging $385 psf. In 2011, the average resale price was $728 psf or 89 per cent higher. Guilin View, a nearby private condominium, fetched an average of $529 psf in 2001 and $719 psf in 2011, a 36 per cent increase but underperforming The Dew.

    By 2005 many of the earlier EC projects had fulfilled the five-year MOP, resulting in numerous units entering the resale market. In 2005, resale units in The Florida in Hougang averaged $338 psf, rising 96 per cent to $662 psf in 2011. Rio Vista, a private condominium next door, registered $433 psf as average resale price in 2005 and $719 psf in 2011, a 66 per cent increase but short of The Florida's gains.

    In 2006, resale units in the Summerdale EC in Boon Lay averaged $305 psf, but climbed 93 per cent to $589 psf in 2011. Lakeholmz, a private condominium in the vicinity, saw its resale prices averaging $456 psf in 2006 and $722 psf in 2011, an appreciation of 58 per cent but below Summerdale's increase.

    << Previous Next >>

    More EC opportunities for buyers

    The foregoing analysis has examined situations when ECs achieved attractive capital appreciation. This is mainly due to their significantly lower initial purchase price (typically around 20 per cent cheaper than private condominiums) and the increase in value when they can be sold on the open market after fulfilling the MOP.

    The buoyant property market has prompted the Government to step up the supply of EC sites. Since 2010 to date, 10 EC sites have been sold by the Government, of which five have been launched for sale by their developers. These are Esparina Residences, The Canopy, Prive, Austville Residences and Belysa. The 10 sites can yield an estimated 5,035 EC units or 48 per cent of the total existing EC stock of 10,430 units.

    The HDB income ceiling is currently under review and is expected to be revised upwards so that more first-timers can qualify for new HDB built-to-order (BTO) flats. As the policy of catering to the "sandwich class" is likely to continue, the income ceiling for EC flats is expected to be raised in tandem with that for BTO flats. This should bode well for the EC market, leading to sustained demand and growth of this particular housing segment.

    [email protected]

    Karamjit Singh is the managing director of Credo Real Estate.

    << Previous Next >>

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  10. #10
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    Go for it. Most of these ec are selling as high price as any nearby pc.

    Once 5yrs mop, look ard to sell and switch to your desire fh or 999lh if any opportunity. Make the money and in uncertainities, u are definitely less affected

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    Nowadays buying a pc do not guarantee you the profits and not easy flip or sell in the good old days. Welcome to the locked mop or ssd. Ur choice

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    location and timing is the issue, not about whether ec or pc.caspian launched at market low 650psf now 2yrs only, 900psf. ec can never make this kind of money due to mop.and ec is always launch when market is high.good luck in ur search

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71
    Nowadays buying a pc do not guarantee you the profits and not easy flip or sell in the good old days. Welcome to the locked mop or ssd. Ur choice
    Since SSD... then MOP is what?

    Should Stop Dreaming, Must Own Property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    Since SSD... then MOP is what?

    Should Stop Dreaming, Must Own Property.
    Ssd for Pte condo, mop for ec.

    One must have dreams, to achieve it. If no dreams, what goal we have in life?
    Dream first achieve later

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    Since SSD... then MOP is what?

    Should Stop Dreaming, Must Own Property.
    MOP is 1 miserable year more than SSD. MOP strictly cannot sell. SSD can still sell but dependent on market value to how much profit vs duration of stay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    MOP is 1 miserable year more than SSD. MOP strictly cannot sell. SSD can still sell but dependent on market value to how much profit vs duration of stay!
    Actually still quite different right...
    Buy new launch PC -> wait(SSD) 4 yrs to sell -> low installment in initial construction
    Buy resale PC - > stay or collect rent for 4yrs(SSD) then sell
    Buy EC/bto/dbss -> 3yr construction + stay 5yr then can sell
    Buy resale Hdb -> stay 5 yr to sell (8-10k group suddenly can get 30k grant)

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    Quote Originally Posted by taggy
    Actually still quite different right...
    Buy new launch PC -> wait(SSD) 4 yrs to sell -> low installment in initial construction
    Buy resale PC - > stay or collect rent for 4yrs(SSD) then sell
    Buy EC/bto/dbss -> 3yr construction + stay 5yr then can sell
    Buy resale Hdb -> stay 5 yr to sell (8-10k group suddenly can get 30k grant)
    Good analysis!

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    EC is the way to go. It is a tiny group of housing genre which gives selling a slight advantage.


    1. you get the 30k grant ~ 700 psf = 670 psf, 750 psf = 720 psf
    2. If you think the builder gives good quality to last for 10 years, upon privatisation, you should be able to command good resale price given good economic conditions.
    3. Your lawyer will tell you you are protected in 'some ways' when you sign s&p compared to PC.
    4. Given now 12k ceiling. It will attract the HDB upgraders to drive the price up since got a bigger demand pool. Then again they face the danger of selling their HDB 3 years later while lock-in today price.
    5. Pick the correct district, avoid places like Bukit Panjang. I personally go for D18.

    If you realize, when there are foreign talents and huge capital inflow due to trouble of others, just watch for local population growth and policies which will equate to price appreciation.
    Affordable means small

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    They've just given the EC demand a booster jab by increasing the income ceiling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montaigne
    Please share your views, I am the affected lot. M waiting for market to crash with enough cash for Private. Now I can qualify for EC, should I change my target? Have been waiting eagerly to jump in for a freehold apartment, have always favour FH. EC is LH99, but compared to LH mass condo, it is v much cheaper. The only difference is to hold it for at least 10 years. It makes no diff to me since it will be for own stay, or rather long term investment. Good news for revised income ceiling, but at the same time, caught in a dilema
    Don't give you a choice -> you complain

    Give you more choice -> you get dilemma

    How to please everyone...sigh

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    A friend told me this: Staying in an EC abit lose face compared to PC. Doesn't feel upgraded. When people ask, U can't say you are staying in a private, you have to admit its an EC, even after 10 yrs. So now there is this thing called face value stick to it. One more question. After 10 years when it becomes private, must we declare to the next buyer that it is a privatised EC? Local might know, but foreigners may treat it as a PC right if they are not knowlegeable enough? No?

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    Quote Originally Posted by testtest
    Don't give you a choice -> you complain

    Give you more choice -> you get dilemma

    How to please everyone...sigh
    Life is like that. When you can only eat at one stall, you complain everyday eat same food. When you go to the food court with many stalls, you dunnno what to eat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montaigne
    A friend told me this: Staying in an EC abit lose face compared to PC. Doesn't feel upgraded. When people ask, U can't say you are staying in a private, you have to admit its an EC, even after 10 yrs. So now there is this thing called face value stick to it. One more question. After 10 years when it becomes private, must we declare to the next buyer that it is a privatised EC? Local might know, but foreigners may treat it as a PC right if they are not knowlegeable enough? No?
    Anything that is subsidized no face lah.
    Then u compare 3 room with 4 room, no face
    4 room with 5 room, no face
    5 room with jumbo,no face
    EC with condo, no face
    Condo with landed, no face
    Face... Bankrupt got face meh?
    Dun be a simpleton, buy within your means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montaigne
    A friend told me this: Staying in an EC abit lose face compared to PC. Doesn't feel upgraded. When people ask, U can't say you are staying in a private, you have to admit its an EC, even after 10 yrs. So now there is this thing called face value stick to it. One more question. After 10 years when it becomes private, must we declare to the next buyer that it is a privatised EC? Local might know, but foreigners may treat it as a PC right if they are not knowlegeable enough? No?
    Actually the lose face one really hard to say.. 7-8 years later when esparina owners make 50% paper gain while H2O owners make 5% paper gain, I wonder who lose face? even past few years and now, bishan loft owners lose face or bishan 8?

    as an upgrader (not investor, ie not intending to hold multiple properties), if your target is fringe OCR and you choose to buy pte over EC although u are below 12k, then it will be quite puzzling..

    but well, it's all preference..

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    Quote Originally Posted by linchong84
    Actually the lose face one really hard to say.. 7-8 years later when esparina owners make 50% paper gain while H2O owners make 5% paper gain, I wonder who lose face? even past few years and now, bishan loft owners lose face or bishan 8?

    as an upgrader (not investor, ie not intending to hold multiple properties), if your target is fringe OCR and you choose to buy pte over EC although u are below 12k, then it will be quite puzzling..

    but well, it's all preference..
    Who cares about lose face....

    Money in the pocket is the most real.....

    Can buy extra face then.....

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montaigne
    A friend told me this: Staying in an EC abit lose face compared to PC. Doesn't feel upgraded. When people ask, U can't say you are staying in a private, you have to admit its an EC, even after 10 yrs. So now there is this thing called face value stick to it. One more question. After 10 years when it becomes private, must we declare to the next buyer that it is a privatised EC? Local might know, but foreigners may treat it as a PC right if they are not knowlegeable enough? No?
    if u staying a condo, not driving a min entry level conti car. mercedes, beemer, or audi also lose face. becoz like that cannot match or tally, drive japanese car into pte estate..

    don't make sense to me. how many condo owners here, drive a conti car?? not all, but maybe 5-10%.

    go drive around meyer road landed hse, and u see some with lorry or vans inside. gao glam bo??

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    The government is raiding our reserve to subsidize rich couples with $10-12k/mth salary!

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    My own combination :

    Live in spacious ec
    Rent out pc
    Drive decent jap suv
    Plenty of cash right pocket
    Plenty of stocks left pocket
    Live well within means and minimise all the extravagences (ie branded luxury stuff, expensive holidays, etc)

    imo, no lose face lar... ownself happy can already... must find own comfort zone and level of contentment... else never can end one...

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71
    if u staying a condo, not driving a min entry level conti car. mercedes, beemer, or audi also lose face. becoz like that cannot match or tally, drive japanese car into pte estate..

    don't make sense to me. how many condo owners here, drive a conti car?? not all, but maybe 5-10%.

    go drive around meyer road landed hse, and u see some with lorry or vans inside. gao glam bo
    ?
    ?
    contractors doing repair work lah......

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    The government is raiding our reserve to subsidize rich couples with $10-12k/mth salary!
    y on earth is govt building EC........

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