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Thread: Multi-property owner speaks up

  1. #1
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    Default Multi-property owner speaks up

    Multi-property owner speaks up
    I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

    I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

    To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

    This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

    Does my money count? Do I count?

    Tan Cheng Hock
    Last edited by esther; 05-01-12 at 20:53.

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    3 cheers for Mr Tan. I bet he is one of the forummer here...

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    Yup 3 cheers!!

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    I support ya! Why discriminate against us who work hard to earn and choose to invest in private properties? Govt should just respect market forces with respect to private property market, otherwise how to become like London and New York?
    Those who can't afford should just stick with HDB flats and ECs. There already many choices there! Stop CPCB! Otherwise sooner or later I pull my fund & business fully out of Singapore! I believe many others will do the same!

    Quote Originally Posted by esther
    Multi-property owner speaks up
    I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

    I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

    To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

    This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

    Does my money count? Do I count?

    Tan Cheng Hock

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    Yah loh why penalize your own citizens owning part of his country?

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    Quote Originally Posted by esther
    Multi-property owner speaks up
    I AM put off by the latest round of cooling measures ('Property curbs could hurt economy: Redas'; Dec 28).

    I am a Singaporean and own three private properties. I studied hard. I work hard. I employ Singaporeans and contribute to the economy. I pay annual taxes that amount to what some earn in a year.

    To me, meritocracy works - and counts, and there are no short cuts: You work hard, you make money and you pay your dues. But now, I am told that as a native Singaporean who has run the gauntlet of our much vaunted meritocracy, I must be penalised further by that very same system because I invested my hard-earned rewards in more than one local property.

    This is enough to drive me from the country I grew up in and in which I am still contributing, to think the better of investing here and invest in a property in another country that does not discriminate against high-income earners.

    Does my money count? Do I count?

    Tan Cheng Hock
    A natural reaction
    Can't it be the tide has turned, now is the opportunity for those who has worked hard, saved up and still contributing equally high income earners to use their hard earned reward to buy when the price is right?

    I think he will not make such remarks if he is holding on to his hard earned reward and waiting on the sideline patiently.

    Investment is about patience and within ones means and ability to ride over any uncertainties and emerge as winner. Just to share an alternative perspective.

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    I just dont get it. Citizens should be encouraged to buy properties, the more the merrier, as it directly contributes to the local economy. Just impose a 5yr MOP if govt like, to ward off speculation. Why penalise them for buying?

    Its simply a poor excuse to ride on and take advantage of the situation to add on to the gahmen coffers...

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    Coffeeshop talk: Landed property prices going to crash the worst! You know, these people's salary got cut by 35%, so landed should come down by 35% to maintain their purchasing power! And these people only buy landed for security and privacy reasons....

    Quote Originally Posted by flxcat
    A natural reaction
    Can't it be the tide has turned, now is the opportunity for those who has worked hard, saved up and still contributing equally high income earners to use their hard earned reward to buy when the price is right?

    I think he will not make such remarks if he is holding on to his hard earned reward and waiting on the sideline patiently.

    Investment is about patience and within ones means and ability to ride over any uncertainties and emerge as winner. Just to share an alternative perspective.

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    Private property should indeed be outside the purview of govt cooling measures if it involves singaporean buyers. Govt can curb foreign buying but it makes no sense for govt to tax singaporeans who wish to buy more than one property for the purposes of investment. Whether or not property is to be used as a tool for investment, it is a person's individual freedom. Providing housing for the masses should only be the mandate of hdb and it has nothing to do with the private pty market. Why should HDB valuations be affected by private property prices when hdb prices are pegged to past hdb transactions and not to private pty prices?

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    ABSD is just 3%, and not 10%, and he makes so much noise? LOL

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    If his next purchase is a $10 million landed property, 3% is $300000

    Quote Originally Posted by august
    ABSD is just 3%, and not 10%, and he makes so much noise? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    If his next purchase is a $10 million landed property, 3% is $300000
    but prices are primed to fall in 2012 what, so he should be happy leh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    but prices are primed to fall in 2012 what, so he should be happy leh.
    If he has multiple properties, he also want to sell for profits. All the CM will affect him. Foreigners investors gone. Must hold >4yrs or SSD applies.

    Even if he buy before CM4, CM5 will Of course upset him lah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I support ya! Why discriminate against us who work hard to earn and choose to invest in private properties? Govt should just respect market forces with respect to private property market, otherwise how to become like London and New York?
    Those who can't afford should just stick with HDB flats and ECs. There already many choices there! Stop CPCB! Otherwise sooner or later I pull my fund & business fully out of Singapore! I believe many others will do the same!
    I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.
    I feel relieve to know that there are still hardworking, determined Singaporeans around who strive to attain his/her dreams using one's own efforts and abilities. Kudos to u!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    If he has multiple properties, he also want to sell for profits. All the CM will affect him. Foreigners investors gone. Must hold >4yrs or SSD applies.

    Even if he buy before CM4, CM5 will Of course upset him lah.
    so it has to do with him unable to offload at higher profits, nothing to do with meritocracy. lol

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    ya, I fully support this as well especially for retirees like me putting all the hard earned monies for the last 30+ years into properties.

    Also, why the govt does not introduce cooling measures for share market if it is getting hot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    ya, I fully support this as well especially for retirees like me putting all the hard earned monies for the last 30+ years into properties.

    Also, why the govt does not introduce cooling measures for share market if it is getting hot?
    this question should be most pertinent for public housing, HDBs.

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    It is not the 3% that matter, but a matter of perception of policy changes that discriminate against the PRs and foreigners in terms of investible investment assets. PRs and foreigners are predominantly active in private property market, and latest CM will definitely affect private property market for sure. So govt sending signal that they will do anything to bring the private property prices down including dsscriminating all prior investors in order to allow the young Citizens and those Citizens don't own private property to own one more cheaply?

    On the other hand, providing cheap public housing (i.e. HDB flats) is their national mandate and promise to Singapore Citizens, and on this front, they have failed miserably for the past few years and even up to now! Otherwise, how to explain that 5rm HDB new flat selling at $7xx,000 (regardless of DBSS or even "Palace" renovation - who cares since HDB is supposed to provide cheap housing!) and yet size have shrunk from the typical 1300 sqft to 1100 sqft?
    Also how to explain that resale HDB flat selling at $8xx,000?
    Regardless of new HDB flats or resale HDB flats, it is MND and HDB mandate to ensure their sufficient supply and flat and cheap prices! Those who got so much money should just go buy private and not cause HDB flat prices to inflate beyond reach of general lower income group!

    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    I strongly support too. When I just got married, can't afford a pte ppty, (though I wished so much to have one), no choice, l choose to stay in HDB flat. During that time, even furniture was given by my brother-in-law when he wanted to dispose his and we bought a 2nd hand washing machine. We saved so hard, no branded goods, no purchase of expensive stuff. Then 10 yrs later, govt implemented the EC, our wish came true. But we still saved very hard for our 2nd ppty (for investment) which was bought last yr after another 10 yrs of saving and now govt came out with such cm to penalise Singaporean to own 3rd ppty, this will definitely affect the ppty market. Though addn 3% might be little to some people but it might meant a lot to others.
    Last edited by teddybear; 06-01-12 at 09:36.

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    Real estate is like essential service or commodity such as rice and salt which governments anywhere in the world have to regulate to ensure "fair" distribution be it for economic, political or social reasons or a combination of the three. The primary role of the government is to distribute wealth fairly to the people or at least perceive to be fair. It is always not easy to decide who get what. Government can only do through rules and regulations to maintain market order without which the rich will become richer and the poor will always remain poor or even poorer. This will result in social unrest once income disparity become a serious threat to the country.

    Unless the country is stable with social cohesiveness, our multiple investments in real estate will one day perish if government allows a free hands on essential services and services. Real estates be it HDB flats or private properties are essential goods that can have a serious implication of toward a country economic, social political stability.

    We should not behave like Readas' chief whose comments on the CM5 was clearly motivated by self interest.

    Just another point of view and no mean to offend anyone who differ this writing.

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    HDB flat is here as basic essential services. this discussion here is why discriminate multiple property owners who slaught hard in and for Singapore.

    multiple investments in real estate may not be Signaporens but also funds managers and foreigners.

    is owning 3-4 properties considered alot? Are we not encouraging pro-creation?

    What about those foreigners owning a tower of reflections?

    To me, i think the additional 3% of ABSD due to Singaprean buyers is not necessary.

    perhaps foreigners should pay additional tax for buying multiple property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds
    Real estate is like essential service or commodity such as rice and salt which governments anywhere in the world have to regulate to ensure "fair" distribution be it for economic, political or social reasons or a combination of the three. The primary role of the government is to distribute wealth fairly to the people or at least perceive to be fair. It is always not easy to decide who get what. Government can only do through rules and regulations to maintain market order without which the rich will become richer and the poor will always remain poor or even poorer. This will result in social unrest once income disparity become a serious threat to the country.

    Unless the country is stable with social cohesiveness, our multiple investments in real estate will one day perish if government allows a free hands on essential services and services. Real estates be it HDB flats or private properties are essential goods that can have a serious implication of toward a country economic, social political stability.

    We should not behave like Readas' chief whose comments on the CM5 was clearly motivated by self interest.

    Just another point of view and no mean to offend anyone who differ this writing.

    I agree with you and I also agree with the author of the letter, Mr Tan.

    It is not easy to strike a balance what is morally right or economically wrong, or vice versa.

    I still think that Singapore had a unique system which you cannot compare to other countries like HKG or Japan or USA.

    We had for decades a relatively stable and progressive property market, that fluctuates according to market forces but moderated by strong underpinning from the fact that >80% of the population was in HDB.

    Fast forward the past 3 years, what happened?

    - massive influx of immigration from 3m to 5m, without corresponding increase in infrastructure.

    - the refusal of authorities to base land sales on tender outcomes, ie if it was too low, they have the right to reject ... ie land costs never comes down

    - multi-million dollar salaries at the public offices of the land and the mindset that goes with this, drawing resentment and unhappiness but at the same time, indirectly exhorting and implying to Singaporeans that if you dont earn $600k per year, you are less than a peanut.

    In a small island like Singapore, of cos things will inevitably explode when you are torn at some many directions... you can only satisfy some people some of the time and not everybody all the time.

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    there is no perfect system. gov can do what they think fit but dont ruin the country for popularity and at the expense of our future generations.

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    Agree with Mr Tan's sentiments.
    My views on the CMs.
    1) New HDB is exclusively for Singaporeans and should be heavily subsidised.
    2) Resale HDB is for Singaporeans and PRs. Increase subsidy for First time Singaporeans buying resale HDB irrespective of distance from parents etc.
    3) Young Singaporeans consider HDB as their first step to owning a property and hence the upside should not be limited. Thats the only way they can make financial gains while upgrading from HDB to condo/landed.
    Prices of resale HDB should not be controlled.
    4) Singaporeans should not be restricted with 3% ABSD.
    5) PR should have 10% ABSD for second property onwards.
    6) Foreigners should have 10% ABSD from first property onwards.

    4,5 and 6 will provide incentives to Singaporeans and encourage non-Singaporeans to take citizenship.

    These are my personal views.. No offence to anyone..

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    Government policy is to provide affordable government subsidised housing with HDB and that is the mission of HDB.

    Still remember this? 居者有其屋
    80% Singaporean is already enjoying the fruit of this government hdb policy.

    Private is not for everyone leh. You not capable don't earn that much why must you own one? Why must bring make it affordable for the kpkb youngsters hah. Since when it becomes 居者有公寓?

    Political. GE2016. So somebody has to sacrifice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    Government policy is to provide affordable government subsidised housing with HDB and that is the mission of HDB.

    Still remember this? 居者有其屋
    80% Singaporean is already enjoying the fruit of this government hdb policy.

    Private is not for everyone leh. You not capable don't earn that much why must you own one? Why must bring make it affordable for the kpkb youngsters hah. Since when it becomes 居者有公寓?

    Political. GE2016. So somebody has to sacrifice.
    fair game le.

    govt policy to provide affordable housing to pple, but many pple mess up the hdb segment market to their speculating tool and rental cash cow. making the prices out of reach.

    now its payback time. govt start to mess up the pte segment lolx.

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    For every argument, there's definitely counter-arguments...
    Singaporeans should be treated with more exclusivity... Lol... I'm a Singaporean... Hahaha!

    Agree with Santro. Make citizens feel special...
    Last edited by ysyap; 06-01-12 at 13:54.

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    The argument is that the CM5 is all fine and dandy. But the part on absd (reads like short form for ABSurD right???) for Singaporean buying third property is so off.... Means what? If u can afford 3rd or more properties, you can be considered 'foreigner' and no more first class privileged citizen liao??? What BS! (aBSd)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71
    fair game le.

    govt policy to provide affordable housing to pple, but many pple mess up the hdb segment market to their speculating tool and rental cash cow. making the prices out of reach.

    now its payback time. govt start to mess up the pte segment lolx.
    Like that should have CM for hdb leh.

    For a start,
    Own private must sell away hdb lah. Cannot own both at same time.
    New hdb must sell at 50% discount to 1st time buyers.
    Government Land sales must be cheaper
    And SSD for hdb resales
    And ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    Like that should have CM for hdb leh.

    For a start,
    Own private must sell away hdb lah. Cannot own both at same time.
    New hdb must sell at 50% discount to 1st time buyers.
    Government Land sales must be cheaper
    And SSD for hdb resales
    And ...
    i haf trust in our govt,to implement CMs to controlling hdb soon..

    to whack the pte segments, the govt must also whack the hdb suppot level too. to bring down the prices, of both pte and hdb

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