Think Twice before you buy a MM for own stay

[richwang]

Here is a real case:

Elder Sister bought a MM with husband at West Coast, happily married and stayed for 2 years, but cannot afford to buy a bigger unit to have baby.

Younger Sister bought a bigger unit at Woodlands, happily having baby now.

So think twice if young couples are thinking of buying MM for own stay. That's not good for Singapore fertility rates.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. It would be even worse if singles buying MM for own stay. They are so self sufficient and tend not to marry at all.

[Rosy]

Here is a real case:

Elder Sister bought a MM with husband at West Coast, happily married and stayed for 2 years, but cannot afford to buy a bigger unit to have baby.

Younger Sister bought a bigger unit at Woodlands, happily having baby now.

So think twice if young couples are thinking of buying MM for own stay. That's not good for Singapore fertility rates.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. It would be even worse if singles buying MM for own stay. They are so self sufficient and tend not to marry at all.

hi just curious, your elder sister can afford a bigger pte property 2years back before they bought their MM?

They can trade their MM for a 4-5rm flat now and COV had fallen quite a bit recently

[ikan bilis]

west coast got mm ??... parc condo arh ??...

[evergreen]

My (male) friend also said it's too cramped if I get married and husband moves in. I said where got so stupid to let husband move in. I will rent out my MM and move in to his place. My (female) friend agreed
MM is suitable for single occupancy only for a reasonable standard of living.

Bottomline is: if cannot afford to buy a bigger place, better not have babies.

[mcmlxxvi]

What a long shot. Cant believe i am reading this... Is like saying if Warren Buffet buys a tower in Reflections then Singapore private condo price will up 200%.

I see many happily married couples staying in MM < 400sf... Some even with a child. Units are so close together your kid can play with neighbours kids anytime dont even need siblings... What a perfect way to have companionship for your precious only child with other couples precious only children....

[richwang]

Sorry for the confusing, they are not my sisters. I am a friend of the Husband for the elder sister.

The problem is they are so used to the nice environment of the MM project, it is so difficult for them to downgrade (in particular the husband - face issue). When a newly wed stayed there for 2 years, they simply call it their home, and refuse to sell.

So their current plan is to buy another bigger unit and rent out the MM. You know all those restrictions come in:

1) If you owned a condo, you cannot buy new HDB in 30 months;
2) If you own a condo, you need to pay 40% for 2nd condo.

So their plan is to save and wait for 2 more years to buy the 2nd condo.
The only problem is by then, the daughter of the younger sister is already 3+ years old, and the elder sister is complaining she got married earlier but will need to wait for so long to have her own baby.

Yes, they have made close to S$200K paper gain for the MM. But a classical case of:

More money doesn't mean more happiness.

Thanks,
Richard

[flagship74]

My (male) friend also said it's too cramped if I get married and husband moves in. I said where got so stupid to let husband move in. I will rent out my MM and move in to his place. My (female) friend agreed
MM is suitable for single occupancy only for a reasonable standard of living.

Bottomline is: if cannot afford to buy a bigger place, better not have babies.

If i were the male..let's wait and see..see who can wait longer..

[Rosy]

logically, a small house will not stop a couple from having babies. It is their other priorities in life stopping them to have kids

i have seen lower income families staying in a 3rm flat having 3-4 children these days.

it is a common excuse to quote financial reasons for not having babies

[mcmlxxvi]

logically, a small house will not stop a couple from having babies. It is their other priorities in life stopping them to have kids

Absolutely agree. Malay families knwn to have many kids even if they stay in hdb 3rm. And they are very very family focused and oriented. So ??

[evergreen]

8K a month salary is just enough for a slightly above average lifestyle for a family of 5. With each addition to the family, it's 1K more at least.
So either get a 1K salary increment if you want to have a baby or downgrade your lifestyle. Increase the size of the pie or reduce the portion per peron. They have to do the maths.
If they are not willing to do either, they shouldn't have a baby.

[evergreen]

If i were the male..let's wait and see..see who can wait longer..

If the guy own his own place already and his attitude is like that, it just means he don't want to marry his gf. Don't need to wait and see
If the guy has no money, don't need to wait and see either

[mcmlxxvi]

If the guy own his own place already and his attitude is like that, it just means he don't want to marry his gf. Don't need to wait and see
If the guy has no money, don't need to wait and see either

When there is true love a couple will make it work no matter what. Even if it means living in tents at east coast park. So i suspect all these talk about not enough room for more is mere excuses at best, or with ill intention to talk down the market putting blame on small format homes at worst.

It is how urban living has evolved and there is simply no use in fighting it. You want space? Move to jb....

If you cant stand the sight of your partner and or kids in your face most of the day then perhaps you are not truly treasuring them as your closest kin.

[richwang]

We need to have fair comparison. The couple could have bought a bigger unit at Woodlands (just like the younger sister), and likely they are having baby now. The mistake was they bought a MM for own stay.

There are many reasons for poor people to have more babies:

1) They do not see hope for their generation to move up, so the hope is on next generation;
2) The poor will get poorer (The official newspaper has published 2/3 of the kids for the lowest 20% income will leave that bracket. Please note, that means they are 33% of chance to stay in that bracket, higher than the statistic 20%). So more baby increases the chances;
3) Muslims are "taxed" at 4% of total asset while Christians are "taxed" at 10% income. That's why you see Muslims don't want to save, better to spend it.
4) Lowest income can "afford" to have many babies because the "opportunity" cost is low.


Maybe government should have much better property tax incentives for family to have babies.

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

MM is good for investment, but be careful of the side effects (not getting married, not easy to have baby) if you intend to buy it for own stay.

Just my observations: most are singles (some are really pretty ladies), fewer are couples, rare with kids.

Thanks,
Richard

[kane]

600-700sqft MM of built in excluding balcony and yard still can squeeze with one kid. Any more and it will be a real squeeze.

[yjcai]

I thought for development of kids, must give him ample space to crawl around. So MM should not be even considered for family of 3.

[evergreen]

When there is true love a couple will make it work no matter what. Even if it means living in tents at east coast park. So i suspect all these talk about not enough room for more is mere excuses at best, or with ill intention to talk down the market putting blame on small format homes at worst.

It is how urban living has evolved and there is simply no use in fighting it. You want space? Move to jb....

If you cant stand the sight of your partner and or kids in your face most of the day then perhaps you are not truly treasuring them as your closest kin.

Shouldn't jump to such conclusions about people.

E.g. those living in tents may not necessarily care for their children as much as a woman who gives up her child for adoption.

Couples who don't want to have children don't necessarily love each other less than couples who want to.

Those who like to have their own space aren't necessarily people who do not treasure relationships. People who are naturally more creative typically need more alone time than people who are not.

600-700sqft MM of built in excluding balcony and yard still can squeeze with one kid. Any more and it will be a real squeeze.

This size is not considered MM

MM is good for investment, but be careful of the side effects (not getting married, not easy to have baby) if you intend to buy it for own stay.

Not getting married is not an effect of having an MM!
It's the other way round...

[Rosy]

this case study is quite obvious that the couple prioritize their 'FACE' more than having a child. Nobody is for sure that the couple will have kid if they had bought a bigger apartment originally

What is wrong to switch from a MM to a bigger flat? personally, i will consider that as an upgrade rather than a downgrade

[roly8]

MM is never good for family ...
so small.

[kane]

This size is not considered MM ...

Anything smaller than that is MM to me.

[TMATT]

buy resale need not wait 30mths right?
5room HDB flat, my friends at woodland one is about 1700sqft, she said is call jumbo size.

MM condo is for lifestyle, investment, but when have family, think twice... which one is more important. own comfort or kids future?

"""If you owned a condo, you cannot buy new HDB in 30 months;""

Sorry for the confusing, they are not my sisters. I am a friend of the Husband for the elder sister.

The problem is they are so used to the nice environment of the MM project, it is so difficult for them to downgrade (in particular the husband - face issue). When a newly wed stayed there for 2 years, they simply call it their home, and refuse to sell.

So their current plan is to buy another bigger unit and rent out the MM. You know all those restrictions come in:

1) If you owned a condo, you cannot buy new HDB in 30 months;
2) If you own a condo, you need to pay 40% for 2nd condo.

So their plan is to save and wait for 2 more years to buy the 2nd condo.
The only problem is by then, the daughter of the younger sister is already 3+ years old, and the elder sister is complaining she got married earlier but will need to wait for so long to have her own baby.

Yes, they have made close to S$200K paper gain for the MM. But a classical case of:

More money doesn't mean more happiness.

Thanks,
Richard

[TMATT]

Well said!

MM is never good for family ...
so small.

[kane]

If a couple is even thinking of having children, they shouldn't think of MM at all. Nowadays new flats are almost like condo. no need specifically get a condo for face value.

[ikan bilis]

everytime me looking at mm floorplan..., seen most mm are near mrt, open kitchen, big balcony, small pool or spa within unit/spa facilities.... give me impression that mm are ideal for ons singles... how to make real babies ??...

[richwang]

"Not getting married is not an effect of having an MM!
It's the other way round..."

Thanks for the clarification. I have to agree with you now.

Newer generation is smarter!

Thanks,
Richard

[azeoprop]

Last time people stay HDB 1 room and 2 room flat also got big family. Father mother sleep double decker bottom, children sleep on top and in living room. SOHO living.

[ysyap]

My (male) friend also said it's too cramped if I get married and husband moves in. I said where got so stupid to let husband move in. I will rent out my MM and move in to his place. My (female) friend agreed
MM is suitable for single occupancy only for a reasonable standard of living.

Bottomline is: if cannot afford to buy a bigger place, better not have babies.

Sure can afford big unit... just get hdb lor... 3 room flat also has 2 bedrooms....

[richwang]

Now is different. Singles could afford MM. So you'd better to get a 2-bedder to get married, and 3-bedder if you want to have 2 kids.

Thanks,
Richard

[ysyap]

Last time people stay HDB 1 room and 2 room flat also got big family. Father mother sleep double decker bottom, children sleep on top and in living room. SOHO living.

Cannot use 1970 standard in 2010 lah. Can you drive a car today without signal lights and air-con like in the 1970s? Today's weather is much hotter than 40 years ago...

[richwang]

The cut off point for top 20% household earners is about 11K per month.

Condo is targeted at top 20%.

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/the...ist/hhinc1.pdf

roughly, ( 12,818 + 10,095 ) / 2 = 11,456

So lots of people indeed cannot afford to buy condo by Policy definition.
Maybe this case study shows exact how bad the outcome could be if you have bought something you cannot really afford.

If bankers and housing agents are not educated to find the right segment, maybe buyers should be aware.

Thanks,
Richard