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Thread: Sky Habitat - Bishan

  1. #181
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    Actually this 368 Thomson is really should be considered "Balestier" in location, despite the "D11" address.
    Despite its less than ideal location in D11, I believe it should still be selling at a premium compared to Bishan (anywhere in Bishan).
    The fact that it is going at $17xx psf is that it was previously launched and sold at only about $15xx psf, and hence owners selling at $17xx psf are still making good money!
    At $17xx psf for a family size 3BRs and about 1km distance from Novena MRT station, it is still slightly more expensive than Bishan that new condo near Bishan MRT station if sold at $16xx psf, reflecting its premium location in D11 (although the least favorable location of all in D11). Furthermore, the estate consists of mostly 3BRs and 2BRs, not those MM units.

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Alamak trust me I'm very vested in this part of D11, so I know what I'm talking.
    The case u propose, i'm sorry I think it's worse than this bishan case. Upcoming highway construction is going to be terrible. And plus, this is balestier lah.

    And to wild falcon, decent new launches at size around 1000 sqft are all 1900 to 2200 psf. I quoted 3 major projects. I dun even consider MMs as eligible. What example do you have ? ( that new launches at 1700 ??) remember koh bro enbloc the Lincoln suites site for 1500 psf.

    Look I'm not justifying 1600 is a good deal for bishan. I'm justifying why CAPL will sell at 1600 for bishan given current market price. And your argument that "D11 new ones also only at 1700" simply doesn't hold, as it's false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rysk

    How about this small FH unit at D11?? Still under construction.. so brand new at 1700psf can boh??
    http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...le-368-thomson

    Like what Wild Falcon said, you didn't do enough homework loh

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    He wrote so long and you still fail to understand ?

    He's trying to tell you why ppl buy new sale high psf but not resale low psf ! Because they have no enough cash !

    It's totally not the case of " he can afford but sees no value", which is what you think. Do you think you win again in this ?
    It's true that no cash go for units that are ready, no need renovation.

    In my instance, the COV was so crazy that I got a Pte ppty and paid less cash.

    I think government realise this and now up 2nd timer to 30% for EC, coz their pockets are deeper.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    He wrote so long and you still fail to understand ?

    He's trying to tell you why ppl buy new sale high psf but not resale low psf ! Because they have no enough cash !

    It's totally not the case of " he can afford but sees no value", which is what you think. Do you think you win again in this ?
    Amk, can you help me clear my doubts on how someone without cash go for a new launch and pay that premium. I heard it being said but cos i always imagine within 2 years, the developer would have called on their 20-40% cash outlay from the progressive stages, so i never thought it's possible to raise significant amounts of cash in 2 year

  4. #184
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    This marks the peak ?

    Bishan 8 took more den 10yrs to breakeven

    Anyway sell high high good good

    Den make our ppty looks cheapx3!

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    Bishan priciest hdb town?

    How about queenstown? Den ascentia sky looks cheap?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Bishan priciest hdb town?

    How about queenstown? Den ascentia sky looks cheap?
    Are all units sold in ascentia sky?

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    Not addressed to me but i can't help to reply.
    Many speculators dreamed and hoped to flip within 2-3 years before they need to come out big cash outlay lah like paying resale condo which need to come out upfront. They don't mind to pay premium now with very little cash outlay for new sale.

    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    Amk, can you help me clear my doubts on how someone without cash go for a new launch and pay that premium. I heard it being said but cos i always imagine within 2 years, the developer would have called on their 20-40% cash outlay from the progressive stages, so i never thought it's possible to raise significant amounts of cash in 2 year

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    Quote Originally Posted by felicia_sg
    Not addressed to me but i can't help to reply.
    Many speculators dreamed and hoped to flip within 2-3 years before they need to come out big cash outlay lah like paying resale condo which need to come out upfront. They don't mind to pay premium now with very little cash outlay for new sale.
    Not this time now as SSD kick in.. few years back, yes this maybe true.

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    I suspected that these buyers are still dreaming this is the case without considering ssa kicked in. Otherwise, how to explain buying mm unit? Not for investment, how to live in that mm unit if for own stay?

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernStar
    Not this time now as SSD kick in.. few years back, yes this maybe true.

  10. #190
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    Ssd is in plain sight. So if you can't flip means you have to prepare the full cash in 2 years. Secondly most play the mm game cos yield looks good. Overlooking the possibility that because yield looks good now, there's a tendency to overbuild. I think MMs will undergo rental pressure 3 yeas down the road. I drove pass some suites at upper bukit timah. The car park looked pretty full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by felicia_sg
    Not addressed to me but i can't help to reply.
    Many speculators dreamed and hoped to flip within 2-3 years before they need to come out big cash outlay lah like paying resale condo which need to come out upfront. They don't mind to pay premium now with very little cash outlay for new sale.
    Maybe they are hoping for a global recovery in 2 - 3 years or even 4 years (after expiry of SSD) and that might boost home prices. They may still be able to flip at a profit (albeit reduced profit due to SSD). That is the "hope". The reality is the danger of oversupply. Everybody try to offload MM after expiry of SSD may lead to a collapse of the resale market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    Amk, can you help me clear my doubts on how someone without cash go for a new launch and pay that premium. I heard it being said but cos i always imagine within 2 years, the developer would have called on their 20-40% cash outlay from the progressive stages, so i never thought it's possible to raise significant amounts of cash in 2 year
    I thought that if the bank grants 80% loan, you need to pay the first 20% upfront, cash and CPF (inclusive of booking fee) upon signing the S&P, which is usually within 8 weeks? The rest of the 80% loan will be disbursed progressively by the bank? So, less pressure on CPF since instalment amount is progressive. Hope that next 2 to 3 years can save and get the promotion!

    The additional cash required, I suspect, is the renovation expense which is needed when you buy resale. At least $50K including furnitures and fittings.

    Plus, Singaporeans feel that prices at launch are always the "best" and not shiok to let resale owners earn that profit. Rather give money to developers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Bishan priciest hdb town?

    How about queenstown? Den ascentia sky looks cheap?
    Don't say Ascentia, even Reflections also looks very cheap lor.. just TOP, can get a decent size unit about $1,500psf
    Of course those cheaper units are those with poorer facing.. but is still Reflections lor.

    Some recent transaction done:
    $1,882,020 1,173sf $1,604psf Feb-12
    $1,415,400 1,012sf $1,399psf Jan-12

  14. #194
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    unless crapland follow MM style like GE which is fully sold out

    409sqft1bdr, 2bdr 560sqft, 3bdr 750sqft, 4bdr 1k sqft

    yes possible to sell 1600psf on average.....wakakaka

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    Talking about CCR D11 prices compared to potential $1600pfs or more at Bishan,

    URA (nov to Feb 2012)

    Latest 3 room transaction at Viva, 1599pfs (>10flr)
    Latest 3 room transaction at PI, 1758pfs (>21 flr)
    Latest 4 room transaction at Trilight, 1741 pfs

    There are still uncompleted new units at Viva and trilight asking for around 1750pfs.

    MMs at newton are transacting at 1900 to >2000pfs. but suites@newton seems to be asking from 1800plus right now and some Lviv subsales appear to be cheaper than remaining developer units.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    unless crapland follow MM style like GE which is fully sold out

    409sqft1bdr, 2bdr 560sqft, 3bdr 750sqft, 4bdr 1k sqft

    yes possible to sell 1600psf on average.....wakakaka
    Mr. Moshe Safdie will resign and say he dont wanna design anymore

  17. #197
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    suites@newton inferior location leh....right in between novena and newton mrt....LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by fclim
    So, less pressure on CPF since instalment amount is progressive. Hope that next 2 to 3 years can save and get the promotion!

    The additional cash required, I suspect, is the renovation expense which is needed when you buy resale. At least $50K including furnitures and fittings.

    Plus, Singaporeans feel that prices at launch are always the "best" and not shiok to let resale owners earn that profit. Rather give money to developers.
    to kane: yes fclim explains it simple enough.
    And practically for a 1mil resale pty, if u only have 300k u simply cannot buy; but u can buy a 1.2mil new launch now, and save the remaining sum over the next 1-2yrs, either by bonus, liquidate ur other assets, etc. this 40% dp requirement favors developers.

  19. #199
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    The 4-years SSD makes speculators even more likely to flip new launch than resale because for new launch, they only pay 10% cash upfront and the rest of 30% payment will be paid progressively only over next 2-3 years while resale have to come out with 40% cash straight away! Also, SSD start from S&P and by the time before TOP just nice to flip at best price! So, SSD affects resale transactions much much more badly than new launch!
    Coffeeshop talk is that regardless of whether un-intentional or intentional (more likely) this benefits land sales!

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernStar
    Not this time now as SSD kick in.. few years back, yes this maybe true.
    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    felicia_sg[/B]]Not addressed to me but i can't help to reply.
    Many speculators dreamed and hoped to flip within 2-3 years before they need to come out big cash outlay lah like paying resale condo which need to come out upfront. They don't mind to pay premium now with very little cash outlay for new sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ekl2ekl2
    Talking about CCR D11 prices compared to potential $1600pfs or more at Bishan,
    seriously let's digest your data:

    Latest 3 room transaction at Viva, 1599pfs (>10flr)
    This is a new sale, the original launch price, lodged now; and it's 2.1M btw.

    Latest 3 room transaction at PI, 1758pfs (>21 flr)
    1st of all this is old project, 2nd, 1758 psf yes but quantum is 2.78M. Is this the same kind of quantum Bishan buyer is expecting ?

    Latest 4 room transaction at Trilight, 1741 pfs
    and this one, I can tell you dun know Trilight well. this 2099 sqft is a *3 bed room* unit, quantum 3.65M ! And again is this comparable ?

    Look the case here is simple: these decent new D11 projects can have psf 1700-1900 range, but all are big quantum. It's the *same* case as I mentioned earlier, you can even have Orchard Boulevard at 1400psf some more.

    Again I'm not saying "Bishan 1600 good buy". I'm saying, in today's market, Bishan asking 1600 headline price is completely normal. You cannot say "heck for 1600 I can even buy Newton/Novena new sale". No you cannot with the same quantum. I can give you another example, Newton One psf is also 1750 range, but its 1024 sqft is only a 2 bed room! You expect bishan buyers to pay 2M for a 2bd ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    unless crapland follow MM style like GE which is fully sold out

    409sqft1bdr, 2bdr 560sqft, 3bdr 750sqft, 4bdr 1k sqft

    yes possible to sell 1600psf on average.....wakakaka
    Liew said before won't do anything < 500sqft, see if he keeps his words.

    I'd imagine 1600 being "headline" psf lah. for the 1/2bds. bigger ones will be 1400plus I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    The 4-years SSD makes speculators even more likely to flip new launch than resale because for new launch, they only pay 10% cash upfront and the rest of 30% payment will be paid progressively only over next 2-3 years while resale have to come out with 40% cash straight away! Also, SSD start from S&P and by the time before TOP just nice to flip at best price! So, SSD affects resale transactions much much more badly than new launch!
    Coffeeshop talk is that regardless of whether un-intentional or intentional (more likely) this benefits land sales!
    i thought new ruling is at least 20% down-payment regardless new sale or resale AND buyers are either first timer or had fully repay their loan?

    i think the main reasons are mentioned by fclim in earlier thread. Last time deferred payment is the best for flipper.

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    I don't agree Bishan upgraders not enough cash. Period. There is a possibility see no value. Got cash also don't want to buy overvalued assets. UNDERSTAND?

    And some of us just want to highlight those numbers of 2200psf in Novena that you are throwing out is MISLEADING. That's all. Don't get defensive. It is VERY MISLEADING, if you are really in touch with the market today. And I also said only ONE project in recent months has hit that price, which is Suites @ Newton and that project is not moving. Then u name a whole bunch of projects which are clearly stuggling to hit anywhere close to 2200psf - anyhow hamtam without even going to caveats. Of course you are allowed to exaggerate, but people can also come in to clarify actual market transactions are way off from the number you have you throwing out in this forum.

    Its ok to be bullish. But its another to use misleading numbers to support your beliefs.


    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    He wrote so long and you still fail to understand ?

    He's trying to tell you why ppl buy new sale high psf but not resale low psf ! Because they have no enough cash !

    It's totally not the case of " he can afford but sees no value", which is what you think. Do you think you win again in this ?
    Last edited by Wild Falcon; 06-03-12 at 09:39.

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    Again I'm not saying "Bishan 1600 good buy". I'm saying, in today's market, Bishan asking 1600 headline price is completely normal. You cannot say "heck for 1600 I can even buy Newton/Novena new sale". No you cannot with the same quantum. I can give you another example, Newton One psf is also 1750 range, but its 1024 sqft is only a 2 bed room! You expect bishan buyers to pay 2M for a 2bd ?[/quote]


    Your point on the quantum is well taken. Forgot these are FH

    Perhaps some comparisons could be made with 99 LH condos in Newton

    TOP 2012, Rochelle, $1300-1400pfs. <1.4-1.5m

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    Quote Originally Posted by ekl2ekl2
    Perhaps some comparisons could be made with 99 LH condos in Newton

    TOP 2012, Rochelle, $1300-1400pfs. <1.4-1.5m
    Rochelle , 1.6m buys you a 1012 sqft 2bedroom. I do not expect bishan's 2bd be 1000sqft. Also dun forget this project started in 2008/9 at 1200psf plus only. This is not really new sale.

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    I am sure there will be small units hitting above 1600psf. But would be interesting to see if median PSF hit 1600psf and assuming there is a fair share of family sized units. Even The Hillier has 1-bedder 532sqft units hitting 1700psf. The "small is beautiful" trend has moved to the suburbs... Frankly, I would value this above d'Leedon - both being 99LH.

    Quote Originally Posted by ekl2ekl2
    Again I'm not saying "Bishan 1600 good buy". I'm saying, in today's market, Bishan asking 1600 headline price is completely normal. You cannot say "heck for 1600 I can even buy Newton/Novena new sale". No you cannot with the same quantum. I can give you another example, Newton One psf is also 1750 range, but its 1024 sqft is only a 2 bed room! You expect bishan buyers to pay 2M for a 2bd ?

    Your point on the quantum is well taken. Forgot these are FH

    Perhaps some comparisons could be made with 99 LH condos in Newton

    TOP 2012, Rochelle, $1300-1400pfs. <1.4-1.5m[/quote]

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    U r mistaken to say I'm bullish.
    I simply tell you why Bishan will ask 1600 for its headline psf: because similar headline psf is being asked at 2000psf 4 MRT stops away in newton new sales. Lviv by wingtai is not your oxley / world class land MM specialist. MM will add another 200!

    This just means all these new sale px are reaching ridiculous levels.

    But yet ppl will still buy new sale rather than resale. Ok we agree to disagree. You believe ppl see value on new sale for its other factors. I think it's by and large the effect of upfront cash plus SSD from TOP.

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    "I will value this over dleedon"

    No problem. Left hand right hand all mine.

    Seriously I dun see why both cannot be priced at the same range.
    Dleedon starts at 1600
    Bishan probably ends at 1600

    You can even use either one to sell the other, depending on what kind of mindset the buyer has. For you clearly I will use dlleedon to sell bishan. And I will use bishan to sell dleedon to teddybear

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    That I agree. New sales are fetching too high a premium. And also, at the rate OCR prices are converging, I actually agree with you might be worthwhile looking at CCR. That was why I brought up Novena FH.

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    U r mistaken to say I'm bullish.
    I simply tell you why Bishan will ask 1600 for its headline psf: because similar headline psf is being asked at 2000psf 4 MRT stops away in newton new sales. Lviv by wingtai is not your oxley / world class land MM specialist. MM will add another 200!

    This just means all these new sale px are reaching ridiculous levels.

    But yet ppl will still buy new sale rather than resale. Ok we agree to disagree. You believe ppl see value on new sale for its other factors. I think it's by and large the effect of upfront cash plus SSD from TOP.

  30. #210
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    Don't agree with facts?
    Already told you many young people told me not enough cash that is why die die must buy HDB DBSS at 50% premium instead of buying much cheaper HDB BTOs. Similarly many people buying new launch condos at 50% premium instead of buying much cheaper resale condos in same vicinity. The way you are saying is that these people are very happy to donate 50% more of their money to developers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    I don't agree Bishan upgraders not enough cash. Period. There is a possibility see no value. Got cash also don't want to buy overvalued assets. UNDERSTAND?

    And some of us just want to highlight those numbers of 2200psf in Novena that you are throwing out is MISLEADING. That's all. Don't get defensive. It is VERY MISLEADING, if you are really in touch with the market today. And I also said only ONE project in recent months has hit that price, which is Suites @ Newton and that project is not moving. Then u name a whole bunch of projects which are clearly stuggling to hit anywhere close to 2200psf - anyhow hamtam without even going to caveats. Of course you are allowed to exaggerate, but people can also come in to clarify actual market transactions are way off from the number you have you throwing out in this forum.

    Its ok to be bullish. But its another to use misleading numbers to support your beliefs.

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