SIBOR SOR rates at 11am Daily

[proud owner]

I believe the are talking about usd sibor not sgd sibor

i dont think MAS will abolish SIBOR completely but merely remove USD from the fixing in SIBOR thats all


cannot remove SIBOR cos alot alot of loans corp loans ...short to long term all based on SIBOR fixing ...

will have huge impact on the whole financial market if sibor is removed totally ..

dont think MAS will create a turmoil in spore mkt

[avo7007]

They are talking about Non Deliverable Forward for USD which might affect SOR.

[proud owner]

They are talking about Non Deliverable Forward for USD which might affect SOR.

no lah bro (or sis)

NDF is FX not interest rate ...

it has ntg to do with SIBOR

what happened was that when MAS asked banks in spore to investigate how they did they SIBOR fixing ... they extended the investigation to NDFs...where banks also fix the FX rates at 11 am spore time ...

what they found was that some banks ganged up and manipulated on the FX fixing rates for NDF...


anyway the last part of the article says to use USD from LIBOR fixing ..

thats a stupid suggestion too ,...

first of all LIBOR is fixed in london hour ...
when spore needs to use the usd rate ..do they wait till 7pm spore time (london 11 am) to determine the USD rate ?

or do they use the usd from LIBOR fixed the day before ?


the whole purpose of these X-ibor is that at 11 am ..at that centre ... most banks would be able to borrow at or are willing to lend at such a rate ..

and it would be 2 working day from the day its fixed ..

thats why i think its silly to use usd from Libor ..if the scrap usd for SIBOR ...


anyway SOR is determined using the SGD fx rate with SGD forward rates
using the SGD swap formula ... it will vary from bank to bank due to different usd funding cost ...

if there was a SIBOR usd ...the SOR will be pretty much the same for all banks

now if USD is removed from SIBOR ..then SOR will vary much bigger

bank will difficulty funding usd ...their SOR will be higher ...

[avo7007]

no lah bro (or sis)

NDF is FX not interest rate ...

it has ntg to do with SIBOR



if there was a SIBOR usd ...the SOR will be pretty much the same for all banks

now if USD is removed from SIBOR ..then SOR will vary much bigger

bank will difficulty funding usd ...their SOR will be higher ...

Bro, isn't that what I am saying ...SOR will be affected!

[proud owner]

Bro, isn't that what I am saying ...SOR will be affected!

yes you are right that SOR will be affected

but not becos of NDF

[eng81157]

SOR is the point of contention, since a couple of banks are being investigated for manipulating the rate allegedly

someone (or bank) is gotta get screwed real big time, if the amount of fine in UK is the benchmark to go by

[wind30]

frankly, setting a higher interest rate if the correct way to cool down the market.

If this goes through, property price sure crash.

I really hope it can go through. The prices today is really not very healthy...

[sgbuyer]

frankly, setting a higher interest rate if the correct way to cool down the market.

If this goes through, property price sure crash.

I really hope it can go through. The prices today is really not very healthy...

The interest rate in Singapore is ridiculous in the first place. Even Malaysia rate is well over 6%. The 1%+ rates in Singapore is definitely not natural.

[Werther]

The interest rate in Singapore is ridiculous in the first place. Even Malaysia rate is well over 6%. The 1%+ rates in Singapore is definitely not natural.

Hong Kong housing loan is also slightly above 1%.....

[lajia]

interest rate not only affect mortgage but also overall economic activities. it might deter property activities but, a lot of other activites will also be impacted. in the end, maybe more negative than positive...

look at australia, mortgage rate is about 5-6% or more, u think the price drop??
look at japan, near to zero, u think the price has really grow a lot??
and look at US, the FED has kept the interest rate near zero and what we see today is only slow recovery in housing.

anyway, just to say that interest rate might not have a linear impact on property price.

frankly, setting a higher interest rate if the correct way to cool down the market.

If this goes through, property price sure crash.

I really hope it can go through. The prices today is really not very healthy...

[heehee]

I understand some bears want interest to go up because they have lots of cash earning nothing & they MTB waiting to buy back cheap after selling out.

interest rate not only affect mortgage but also overall economic activities. it might deter property activities but, a lot of other activites will also be impacted. in the end, maybe more negative than positive...

look at australia, mortgage rate is about 5-6% or more, u think the price drop??
look at japan, near to zero, u think the price has really grow a lot??
and look at US, the FED has kept the interest rate near zero and what we see today is only slow recovery in housing.

anyway, just to say that interest rate might not have a linear impact on property price.

[eng81157]

frankly, setting a higher interest rate if the correct way to cool down the market.

If this goes through, property price sure crash.

I really hope it can go through. The prices today is really not very healthy...

well, let me paint alternative scenarios. for that, please keep in mind that SG's GDP is intricately intertwined with its land & property prices

Scenario 1: Assuming land costs remain constant

Interest rate hike - Cost of borrowing goes up
Developers jack up selling price to maintain margin
Cash-strapped developers go bust, consolidation within property industry

Interest rate hike - commoners start putting monies into savings account
Banks slushed with funds, under pressure to generate higher returns
SG Bonds under pressure to provide better returns
Monies flow into alternative investment vehicles - commodities, equities and you name it, properties

Scenario 2:

Interest rate hike - Hot money flows into Singapore
SG Bonds under pressure to deliver better returns
Inflation spikes further
Political costs to artificial manipulation of rates - flight of MNCs to foreign shores, loss of votes, deeping rich-poor divide

Scenario 3:

Interest rate hike - property crash
GDP crash, national budget deficit
Growing number of foreclosures, bankruptcies, suicides
Property and construction industry tanks, number of jobs hit
Deflation sinks in, dark age era like Japan

Certainly we can go on and on with more postulations, but the point is there are implications of unilaterally fixing interest rates. Should be left to market forces

[sgbuyer]

Hong Kong housing loan is also slightly above 1%.....

HK mortgage rate is about 2.5-3%?

http://www.property.hk/eng/mortgage_rate.php

[avo7007]

Certainly we can go on and on with more postulations, but the point is there are implications of unilaterally fixing interest rates. Should be left to market forces

That's what this big woohaa is all about. i.e. whether the banks are colluding to fix rates and not the market.

[rockinsg]

That's what this big woohaa is all about. i.e. whether the banks are colluding to fix rates and not the market.

Yeah. How come BOC giving ~1.2% for 12M deposit when their sibor mortgage is even lesser as Sibor+.6%

http://www.bankofchina.com/sg/bocinf...8_2109748.html

[proud owner]

Yeah. How come BOC giving ~1.2% for 12M deposit when their sibor mortgage is even lesser as Sibor+.6%

http://www.bankofchina.com/sg/bocinf...8_2109748.html

what is 12m SGD Sibor ?

if 12mth Sibor + 0.6 is < 1.2 %

it only means they have special needs for funds for this coming 12 mths ..
its managing their books ..

[mcmlxxvi]

This is ocbc sor

[Ringo33]

1M SOR

[azeoprop]

Wow....all so cheap!

[Khng8]

1M SOR

What's the spread on your loan?

[hopeful]

What's the spread on your loan?

dont be lazy
find out the 3M SOR rate on 24 Nov, and/or 24 Feb.
the difference is the spread.

[Ringo33]

dont be lazy
find out the 3M SOR rate on 24 Nov, and/or 24 Feb.
the difference is the spread.

this loan of mine is on 1M SOR. Spread at the moment is 0.75%, and it will increase to 1% for the 4th and subsequent years..

Now I am wondering by then (if assuming SOR is still low) will it be better to just keep the loan running at 1%+1mSOR or ask for repricing (which I presume will be non SOR)

[hopeful]

this loan of mine is on 1M SOR. Spread at the moment is 0.75%, and it will increase to 1% for the 4th and subsequent years..

Now I am wondering by then (if assuming SOR is still low) will it be better to just keep the loan running at 1%+1mSOR or ask for repricing (which I presume will be non SOR)

when interest rates are falling, i would put in 1year FD, instead of 1 month FD.
when interest rates are rising, i would put in 1 month FD instead of 1 year FD.

similarly for mortgages, rates will rise. i would put in a 3M,6M or even 12M sor/sibor rate, not 1M.
you need to see the average difference between 3M, 6M, and 12M.
this you must ask AMK or whoever with access to 1M, 3M, 6M, 12M SOR/SIBOR.

for example if 3M and 12M difference is 0.2%, I would use 12M rate because i expect interest rate to increase around 1% per year.

[Ringo33]

when interest rates are falling, i would put in 1year FD, instead of 1 month FD.
when interest rates are rising, i would put in 1 month FD instead of 1 year FD.

similarly for mortgages, rates will rise. i would put in a 3M,6M or even 12M sor/sibor rate, not 1M.
you need to see the average difference between 3M, 6M, and 12M.
this you must ask AMK or whoever with access to 1M, 3M, 6M, 12M SOR/SIBOR.

for example if 3M and 12M difference is 0.2%, I would use 12M rate because i expect interest rate to increase around 1% per year.

Bank doesn't allow you to switch as and when you want and also no one can predict what the future hold as well.

[sabian]

Bank doesn't allow you to switch as and when you want and also no one can predict what the future hold as well.

Citi allows, subject to their terms and conditions.

[Ringo33]

Citi allows, subject to their terms and conditions.

citi usually got many many terms and conditions.

[sabian]

citi usually got many many terms and conditions.

At least they still allow you to switch to 1/3/6/12...and unlimited too.

[DC33_2008]

3 mth SOR has been going up 0.01 since 1 April at 0.21..

[flagship74]

3 mth SOR has been going up 0.01 since 1 April at 0.21..

That's peanut

[DC33_2008]

0.01 per day. Small to you but it is still money..

That's peanut