CM6 - My suggestion SURE WORK!!!!

[CCR]

Let me start....

The current scenario in property prices:

1. CCR lack of buyers, prices stagnant to mild decline
2. OCR Prices cheong like mad, all rush to buy
3. Gahmen wants to prevent bubble yet have to meet real demand.

My suggestions sure work yet no property crash

Buyers side:

1. Property below 1.5m 15% ABSD
2. Property 1.5m-1.99m 10% ABSD
3. Property above 2m 5% ABSD

Reasoning: The current overheated market is in OCR properties, do not throw the baby out together with the bath water. Dont make the property market crash, targeted measures to cool the RIGHT segment in the market.


Developers side:

1. Award the first right of refusal for the GLS site to the 2nd highest bidder for any GLS tender.

2. The 2nd highest bidder must pay the highest bidder price if the developer wants the GLS site.

3. If the 2nd highest bidder decline, the highest bidder gets the GLS site at the price that is bidded for.

Reasoning:

Developers will not dare to bid high high... they will bid at realistic pricing so as to be the 2nd highest... bids will all "bunch" up together around the market price.

Gahmen will still gain from only awarding the GLS site the highest bidder, but the inherent mechanism of giving the first right of refusal to the 2nd highest bidder will ensure that the market is not overly exuberant, and hence no SH kind of over the top pricing....

I am sure these two measures will moderate prices immediately without "killing" the market

[Ilikeu]

A simple and direct way is to impose an additional tax on rental income (in addition to the personal income tax) or incremental tax level on 2nd, 3rd and subsequent properties rentals.

This will reduce the net rental income and to maintain the same rental yield in a normal market, the asset prices will have to moderate or decline.

This will not affect owners of only one-property who buys for self stay. My .

[carbuncle]

Why you all spoil market... Let the Minister earn their 1M vitamin M la

[regency321]

Imposing 15% ABSD on mass market condos and only 5% on CCR ones will be very difficult to explain. crushing the upgrading dreams of hdb dwellers will lose them quite a bit of votes. I thought this would really kill the market.

I prefer Ilikeu's suggestion.

[sh]

Ilikeu's idea will only encourage flipping and penalise long term investors. Idon'tlikeu

Landlords are already paying lots of fees, maintenance, higher property tax etc.

[roly8]

well....i think the major CM is stop the flipping to happen in sg again..

other than that, it is all up to global market movement to soften the property price already..

[sh]

Buyers side:

1. Property below 1.5m 15% ABSD
2. Property 1.5m-1.99m 10% ABSD
3. Property above 2m 5% ABSD

Reasoning: The current overheated market is in OCR properties, do not throw the baby out together with the bath water. Dont make the property market crash, targeted measures to cool the RIGHT segment in the market.

That will be the world's first. Higher tax for poor (buyer of cheaper properties), lower tax for rich. Isn't taxes supposed to be progressive, not regressive.... Will be Uniquely Singapore

New CM should be targeted at the huge price difference between new and resale (go after the valuers & banks that support the valuations) and no more progressive payment for 1st 40%.

I have no issue with the proliferation of MMs, think there is a real demand because of changing demographics, so the target should not be on the quantum.

[Ilikeu]

Ilikeu's idea will only encourage flipping and penalise long term investors. Idon'tlikeu

Landlords are already paying lots of fees, maintenance, higher property tax etc.

Encourage flipping? Maybe when they remove the earlier CMs (SSD, ABSD etc).

Penalise long term investor? Maybe the rental tax can be fine-tuned to a pre-determined no. of initial years for new buys.

Landlords are already paying lots of fees, maintenance, higher property tax etc? Likewise, buyers already paying stamp duties, so no need for SSD, ABSD?

[sh]

Encourage flipping? Maybe when they remove the earlier CMs (SSD, ABSD etc).

Penalise long term investor? Maybe the rental tax can be fine-tuned to a pre-determined no. of initial years for new buys.

Landlords are already paying lots of fees, maintenance, higher property tax etc? Likewise, buyers already paying stamp duties, so no need for SSD, ABSD?

Not saying that landlords need special treatment, but they should not be penalised.

By imposing higher taxes on rental, you're telling property owner to forget about renting, just leave it empty until a buyer comes along, hence flipping. Rental properties are already paying higher property taxes, you are suggesting even higher property taxes. The signal you're giving is that you should only buy for own stay, don't buy for rental, but it's ok to buy and sell.

Fine tune taxes for initial years? So higher property tax for 1st year, lower for 2nd year, and so on, that might work. So super long term landlords are encouraged while short term ones are not?

So the options are. 1) quickly flip to avoid rental tax or 2) be long term landlord?

[Allthepies]

A simple and direct way is to impose an additional tax on rental income (in addition to the personal income tax) or incremental tax level on 2nd, 3rd and subsequent properties rentals.

This will reduce the net rental income and to maintain the same rental yield in a normal market, the asset prices will have to moderate or decline.

This will not affect owners of only one-property who buys for self stay. My .

The best but bitter way is to clammed down the HDB prices which formed very strong support for the higher tier houses. Make HDB into a non investment grade instrument will do the job. The government can impose much higher taxes for rental income from HDBs, or raise MOP for HDBs to 10 years? Those upgrading from HDB have to pay a punitive tax unless the seller sell off his HDB.

[sh]

The best but bitter way is to clammed down the HDB prices which formed very strong support for the higher tier houses. Make HDB into a non investment grade instrument will do the job. The government can impose much higher taxes for rental income from HDBs, or raise MOP for HDBs to 10 years? Those upgrading from HDB have to pay a punitive tax unless the seller sell off his HDB.

Like like like!

In fact, better still, no private property for hdb owners. Public housing should be for people who cannot afford private housing. Like anywhere else in the world! If you have afford private property, you should let those who cannot afford it have your flat. Will also control the proliferation of MMs, because the HDB buyers of MMs will have to stay in them! Sure to "control" prices and no. of MMs

Now prepared to be flamed....

Will never happen because of politics....

[rattydrama]

Like like like!

In fact, better still, no private property for hdb owners. Public housing should be for people who cannot afford private housing. Like anywhere else in the world! If you have afford private property, you should let those who cannot afford it have your flat. Will also control the proliferation of MMs, because the HDB buyers of MMs will have to stay in them! Sure to "control" prices and no. of MMs

Now prepared to be flamed....

Will never happen because of politics....

already is. its only those before Aug 2010 ruling still holding on to HDB and private.

yes agree private ppty owner should not own HDB .

[sh]

already is. its only those before Aug 2010 ruling still holding on to HDB and private.

yes agree private ppty owner should not own HDB .

I'm referring to owners of HDB buying a private property after complying with the min occupying period. Singapore is the only place in the world where this is allowed to happen! HDB owners has to sell their unit within x months of buying a private property.

This will be the most effective CM! Will rid the market of MMs too!

[amk]

Yes clamp down soaring HDB prices will cool OCR activity immediately.

I propose NO RENTING allowed for HDB. HDB is meant for Singaporean's home right? Bringing down HDB prices can even score political points, no need to explain so hard how 1k income can afford HDB.

Then low end workers rent where ? Simple, gov monopolize HDB rental. Gov buy over HDB flats from open market and operate rental market through a subsidiary. In fact I think this scheme existed 10yr ago.

[amk]

I'm referring to owners of HDB buying a private property after complying with the min occupying period. Singapore is the only place in the world where this is allowed to happen! HDB owners has to sell their unit within x months of buying a private property.

This will be the most effective CM! Will rid the market of MMs too!

Yes this one sounds good too !

[rattydrama]

need to tighten the current hdb rules. right now, we are asking the hdb upgraders to incur more debt.

we see the upgrader snatching up mm in ocr... need many years to break..

[ysyap]

Let CCR market alone if its not biting you. Anyway not everybody can play in that field so numbers will be manageable.

Control the market from the bottom up approach beginning from HDB. Govt take less profit can liao, from BTO to land parcel sales. Try selling BTO 5 room flat for $200k and start building enough to more than meet demand then buyers no longer have to wait 4 years (cannot call BTO liao). Cheap quantum plus no wait time, you'll see the HDB resale market crash! Here, HDB prices will control the OCR market indirectly. There'll be a paradigm shift in property mindset.

[teddybear]

You think they will do that? They not so stupid. If they do so, they shoot themselves in their foot as they are relying on you people to provide rental housing to the foreigners (cheap ones at that sooner or later, since they are flooding the market now with so many new launches private properties & HDB flats (and they profit from selling the land & HDB flats)) & you shoulder the risks of owning the properties with their endless CMs (they acting just like the developers, successfully bidded the land must quickly launch to sell to transfer the risks to the buyers!). If they make it unfavorable to hold properties for rental, then they have to take over the jobs to provide properties (usually cheaply-built dormitories) for all these foreign workers (they develop and build and own these properties needed to house the foreign workers, and yet have to rent cheap cheap since these people can't afford high rental! Not so favorable compared to selling for upfront profit and transfer the risks of holding the properties to the buyers right?). Actually I prefer that they build and own these cheap housing to be provided to the foreigners so that when recession comes & foreign workers leave in mass, they are the ones holding the babies and the rest of the property owners are protected from the shocks during economic recession!

Not saying that landlords need special treatment, but they should not be penalised.

By imposing higher taxes on rental, you're telling property owner to forget about renting, just leave it empty until a buyer comes along, hence flipping. Rental properties are already paying higher property taxes, you are suggesting even higher property taxes. The signal you're giving is that you should only buy for own stay, don't buy for rental, but it's ok to buy and sell.

Fine tune taxes for initial years? So higher property tax for 1st year, lower for 2nd year, and so on, that might work. So super long term landlords are encouraged while short term ones are not?

So the options are. 1) quickly flip to avoid rental tax or 2) be long term landlord?

[Allthepies]

All good suggestions here, now just need someone to lead KBW and team to this thread

[House]

hdb should also set a guide / revamp the hdb flat valuation


really cant believe those joker giving a 30yrs old flat original condition 600K
those hdb flats at sunset way....i lagi catch no ball

[teddybear]

Why not ask govt to implement your suggestion on commercial properties? This way, only genuine businessman own their own shop space for business & not held hostage to REITs monopolizing the market as biggest landlords & causing high inflation in Singapore now. Now, we are hearing official inflation is >5%, but actual inflation in the ground is definitely much much higher!

A simple and direct way is to impose an additional tax on rental income (in addition to the personal income tax) or incremental tax level on 2nd, 3rd and subsequent properties rentals.

This will reduce the net rental income and to maintain the same rental yield in a normal market, the asset prices will have to moderate or decline.

This will not affect owners of only one-property who buys for self stay. My .

[teddybear]

Yes you are right. Massive building of HDB flats & making general layman hold them for rental Will crash the properties market in future during recession when foreigners left & these people can't afford instalment for both PC & HDB at same time because no rental incomes. They don't know or they want HDBers to do national service & bear the risks? Either reasons are just bad bad bad! The former is even worse as ignorant won't abhor them of responsibilities & in view of the type of the pay they are getting & they are ignorant?

Yes clamp down soaring HDB prices will cool OCR activity immediately.

I propose NO RENTING allowed for HDB. HDB is meant for Singaporean's home right? Bringing down HDB prices can even score political points, no need to explain so hard how 1k income can afford HDB.

Then low end workers rent where ? Simple, gov monopolize HDB rental. Gov buy over HDB flats from open market and operate rental market through a subsidiary. In fact I think this scheme existed 10yr ago.

[Eldenfirefly]

The government will have a riot on their hands if they so obviously wack HDB market, especially by higher taxes on less expensive properties. That's like saying, if you are rich, government will tax you less... or put it in another way, only the rich are allowed to get richer, the poorer people aren't allowed to get rich. Can you imagine what would happen if they do that?

[teddybear]

yes you are right. That is why I suggested increasing thee rich's taxes & abolish GST.

You want more revenue from the rich? Target properties are useless. You should ask govt to increase income tax & Corporate tax to 40% for income above $1m! To keep living costs low, abolish GST, & break up all the REITs from monopolizing commercial rental markets & flood market with massive number of the commercial properties instead to make commercial rents cheap!

The government will have a riot on their hands if they so obviously wack HDB market, especially by higher taxes on less expensive properties. That's like saying, if you are rich, government will tax you less... or put it in another way, only the rich are allowed to get richer, the poorer people aren't allowed to get rich. Can you imagine what would happen if they do that?

[Eldenfirefly]

But increasing the rich's income tax may not have that much immediate impact on housing prices...

[Rosy]

why we need to correct property prices via cm? Let nature take its course.

Kbw is doing the right thing ensuring every 1st timer a bto flat.

[DaytonaSS]

FOR GOODNESS SAKE! HDB is the only 1 way ticket the poor have a way of generating some inflation hedged income when they are old and no one can take care of them, by allowing some rental income. THIS IS THE MOST VALUABLE ASSET the lower income group can own.

ALL those suggestion that proposed to crash the HDB price is damn selfish. 80% of singaporeans will crash n burn. How can anyone suggest an idea that will harm the most successful public scheme in the world if i may say. Come on, if one say its expensive for a public housing scheme, y dont travel around and see how well HDB is build and maintained. Ang Mo also come and stay.

What the Govt have to continue to do, is to help the new couples start with a house with appropriate grants. This can be funded by land sales to developers.

if the intend cold water is on OCR condo, then just adjust DP to 30% for 1st n 50% for 2nd prop. Straight will kill off many buyers. to top on that, put a limit on 1 bedder side , 2 bedder and 3 bedder size allowed for reasonable human living. This will ensure no developer will further strink size to meet the same quantum.

if still cannot, each successive CM just add 5% more DP until everyone gives up lor.

[teddybear]

Err.. I don't think increasing ABSD % for different segments will work le because developers can still give cash back for new launch. Of course, they will add the cash back on the selling price for new launch. Then, the price of new launch will be higher and higher

Let me start....

The current scenario in property prices:

1. CCR lack of buyers, prices stagnant to mild decline
2. OCR Prices cheong like mad, all rush to buy
3. Gahmen wants to prevent bubble yet have to meet real demand.

My suggestions sure work yet no property crash

Buyers side:

1. Property below 1.5m 15% ABSD
2. Property 1.5m-1.99m 10% ABSD
3. Property above 2m 5% ABSD

Reasoning: The current overheated market is in OCR properties, do not throw the baby out together with the bath water. Dont make the property market crash, targeted measures to cool the RIGHT segment in the market.


Developers side:

1. Award the first right of refusal for the GLS site to the 2nd highest bidder for any GLS tender.

2. The 2nd highest bidder must pay the highest bidder price if the developer wants the GLS site.

3. If the 2nd highest bidder decline, the highest bidder gets the GLS site at the price that is bidded for.

Reasoning:

Developers will not dare to bid high high... they will bid at realistic pricing so as to be the 2nd highest... bids will all "bunch" up together around the market price.

Gahmen will still gain from only awarding the GLS site the highest bidder, but the inherent mechanism of giving the first right of refusal to the 2nd highest bidder will ensure that the market is not overly exuberant, and hence no SH kind of over the top pricing....

I am sure these two measures will moderate prices immediately without "killing" the market

[DaytonaSS]

yes you are right. That is why I suggested increasing thee rich's taxes & abolish GST.

bro teddybear, u r one of the most "experienced" in this forum. U should understand the effect of consumption tax vs income tax. consumption tax is effectively collecting more $$ from the rich and passing it to the poor if executed correctly.

u know how the rich become richer, its because the "somehow" always manage to pay lesser income tax, if u know what i mean......

end up the poorer middle class tio the worst.

[teddybear]

Why are you talking about housing prices?
Frankly speaking, i believe private market should be left to market forces.
It is the HDB flats that need regulation, regardless of new or resale? Why? Very simple - it doesn't make sense that SLA is profiting hugely from land that they force-bought cheaply from the Singapore citizens in the early days in 1970s-1980s at <$1 psf of land & now selling at >$400 psf ppr (or easily >$600 psf of land if plot ratio is 1.5!). I say force-bought because they are acquired under a law called "land acquirement for national development" where you as land owners can't say "no I don't want to sell to you!"
Since these land are obtained cheaply from citizens & a national service of citizens, they should only be used for the benefits of citizens, & not foreigners (including PRs). As such, if you consider the real costs of building a HDB flats, 99.9% of costs are on construction, negligible on based on original costs. As such, if say construction costs for bare HDB flat is $150 psf, then building costs of 5room flat of 1000 sqft is only $150k, but they are selling >$350k! X200,000 HDB flats they going to build means a profit of >$40,000,000k or $40 billion!

But increasing the rich's income tax may not have that much immediate impact on housing prices...