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Thread: 'Shoebox' units: Govt will step in if necessary, says Khaw

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    Default 'Shoebox' units: Govt will step in if necessary, says Khaw

    'Shoebox' units: Govt will step in if necessary, says Khaw


    The authorities could intervene if there is excessive supply


    by Cheow Xin Yi
    04:46 AM May 03, 2012

    SINGAPORE - The Government is monitoring the sales of so-called "shoebox" apartments and may step in if there is excessive build-up of such units, National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said yesterday.

    Speaking at a dialogue organised by government feedback agency REACH, Mr Khaw also allayed concerns about rising prices of public flats - there is "political will" to build at least 100,000 HDB flats if necessary during the Government's current term, he said.

    Last week, latest statistics from the Urban Redevelopment Authority showed that "shoebox" apartments - or units smaller than 50 sq m - made up 27 per cent of sales in the first quarter, a new high since such units were made available in the market three years ago, according to analysts.

    Responding to a participant who was concerned with what he felt was the shrinking size of HDB flats - this could risk eroding family bonding, the participant said - Mr Khaw replied that, in this regard, his concern was with the private housing market.

    Mr Khaw said he has been watching the sales of "shoebox" units by private developers in the past few months. Said Mr Khaw: "If the percentage becomes too (high) we may have to step in and say, 'Hey, are you sure there will be demand for it?'"

    Based on the profiles of buyers of "shoebox" units, Mr Khaw said he suspects that among them are Singaporeans who see them as a good investment.

    For these investors, Mr Khaw said he hoped they made the "right decision". Rental yields would be less than expected if there are too many of such units, he pointed out.

    Nevertheless, he cited his recent visit to two residents in "shoebox" apartments - both of whom were single and have a pet - and noted that there are people who would be "comfortable" living in such units.



    'HDB flats not shrinking'

    On public flats, Mr Khaw said that, based on his checks, HDB housing norms have not changed for the past 15 years. "There's been this misunderstanding that HDB has somehow in recent years shrunk the units but we have not. If you visit our new three-room, four-room and five-room (flats), they are very comfortable."

    Mr Khaw said that what the HDB has done, instead, was to start building two-bedroom units - after recognising that some of the lower income may find three-room flats unaffordable. Nevertheless, such two-room units make up a "very small fraction" of the total units on offer in each Build-to-Order project, he said.

    He reiterated: "We continue to build smaller units and large units and it's the choice of consumers."

    Mr Khaw also addressed concerns on rising HDB prices, with one participant suggesting that Singaporeans may have to "pay S$1.5 million for a HDB (flat) in 20 years".

    In response, Mr Khaw pointed out that there is a strong co-relation between economic growth, wages and property prices.

    In the short term, property prices are rising as the infrastructure cannot catch up with the rapidly growing population, said Mr Khaw. Nevertheless, the property market has seen some stabilisation, following government measures in the past year, he added.

    And as Singapore's economy reaches maturity, economic growth and wages will also moderate - the latter could "even stagnate", Mr Khaw noted. This would correspondingly have an effect on property prices here.

    He reiterated that the trend of rising property prices will not continue once the Government corrects the imbalance, "which will take time".

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    Quote Originally Posted by vboy
    'Shoebox' units: Govt will step in if necessary, says Khaw


    The authorities could intervene if there is excessive supply

    http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/cmsf....jpg&h=65&w=55
    by Cheow Xin Yi
    04:46 AM May 03, 2012

    Mr Khaw said that what the HDB has done, instead, was to start building two-bedroom units - after recognising that some of the lower income may find three-room flats unaffordable. Nevertheless, such two-room units make up a "very small fraction" of the total units on offer in each Build-to-Order project, he said.

    He reiterated that the trend of rising property prices will not continue once the Government corrects the imbalance, "which will take time".
    Hmmm... why would more people find 3 room hdb flats unaffordable? Building more 2 room flats now and not doing anything about the fact that hdb prices are climbing much faster than salary rise, in another 5 years' time, next MND minister will have to build more 1 room flat coz most are finding 2 room flats unaffordable! Not tackling the issue at its root Mr K.

    Many have already suggested that HDB take in less profit or even use the profit from the HDB loans to subsidize the building cost of HDB flats, from 1 room to EA then it'll solve the problem more directly instead of beefing up our national piggy bank...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Hmmm... why would more people find 3 room hdb flats unaffordable? Building more 2 room flats now and not doing anything about the fact that hdb prices are climbing much faster than salary rise, in another 5 years' time, next MND minister will have to build more 1 room flat coz most are finding 2 room flats unaffordable! Not tackling the issue at its root Mr K.

    Many have already suggested that HDB take in less profit or even use the profit from the HDB loans to subsidize the building cost of HDB flats, from 1 room to EA then it'll solve the problem more directly instead of beefing up our national piggy bank...
    and you'll be accused of raiding the nation's reserves. singapore needs gazillions of trillions worth of secret reserves

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    OMG! OMG! Cow is going to kill all the mickeymouse soon, better go grab few mickeymouse and keep as pets before they become endangered species ….

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157
    and you'll be accused of raiding the nation's reserves. singapore needs gazillions of trillions worth of secret reserves
    Still contributing to it lah... just about couple of hundred million less a year lor...

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    No lah, he is giving warning to developers not to increase the % of MMs in a project further... if less than 30% acceptable, if 50% all MMs than he will do something

    In fact if he bans MMs right now .. those who hold MMs right now will HUAT 10X, so the more reason you should chiong to buy
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    even if there's a ban now, i think it's too late and too little done. we have long known that MMs put a positive skew on the psf prices.

    should have nipped it in the bud long time ago

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    If shoebox units continue to be bought at a crazy rate, Khaw will likely come up with some counter measures.

    Either (1) limit the no of shoebox units at a new launch (say max 20%) or (2) impose ABSD on shoebox units, say at 10-15%.

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    shoebox houses are for ppl who want to invest.
    The problem arises when more Singaporean purchase these private houses and rent it to the FT. Encourage more FT to come and live in Singapore, than complain bout high housing prices and FT stealing their jobs.

    Who's making their life so comfortable in Singapore. We are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom_opera
    No lah, he is giving warning to developers not to increase the % of MMs in a project further... if less than 30% acceptable, if 50% all MMs than he will do something

    In fact if he bans MMs right now .. those who hold MMs right now will HUAT 10X, so the more reason you should chiong to buy
    Well if 27% are MM sized apartments, then 73% are 2 bedder, 2+1, 3, 3+1, 4 and even 4+1 (inclusive of all penthouses) and assuming an average split among them, then each will be about 13% (less than half of 27%) not withstanding that some MM units include 2 bedders too. Like that other units are even more precious leh coz less and less in market... Lol. I seriously doubt MM units will be curtailed. Maybe moderated only lah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaozong7
    If shoebox units continue to be bought at a crazy rate, Khaw will likely come up with some counter measures.

    Either (1) limit the no of shoebox units at a new launch (say max 20%) or (2) impose ABSD on shoebox units, say at 10-15%.
    results....
    1) shoebox price will shoot up more...
    2) at what size is shoebox?... e.g. if mnd says 550sqft is MM, then developers all build 551sq ft....


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    Quote Originally Posted by FilthyRich
    shoebox houses are for ppl who want to invest.
    The problem arises when more Singaporean purchase these private houses and rent it to the FT. Encourage more FT to come and live in Singapore, than complain bout high housing prices and FT stealing their jobs.

    Who's making their life so comfortable in Singapore. We are.
    agree.....these are the ppl who only know to complain with no sense. ig govt continue to cater to these group.....we will be DONE very fast....they may gain more vote at the expense of jeopardising singapore's competitiveness

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    I propose an outright ban of all launches of MM < 500 sqft

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    In fact, they alr introduce the MM controls at Joo Chiat, TK and Kovan

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    In all parts of Singapore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    In all parts of Singapore.
    I think they will. They would want to control the size.

    So the next question is, if this is done, then those alr bot MM units will be Huat alr...as no more new supply in the market...

    So in short, buy MM now before new measures

    logical conclusion

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    the key word is monitoring...everything also monitoring...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    I think they will. They would want to control the size.

    So the next question is, if this is done, then those alr bot MM units will be Huat alr...as no more new supply in the market...

    So in short, buy MM now before new measures

    logical conclusion
    The monitoring should be referring to complaints by landed property owners against MMs in their estates. If there are more, the rules will be extended on an area by area basis. So MMs in mass market condos with good access roads will not be controlled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Hmmm... why would more people find 3 room hdb flats unaffordable? Building more 2 room flats now and not doing anything about the fact that hdb prices are climbing much faster than salary rise, in another 5 years' time, next MND minister will have to build more 1 room flat coz most are finding 2 room flats unaffordable! Not tackling the issue at its root Mr K.

    Many have already suggested that HDB take in less profit or even use the profit from the HDB loans to subsidize the building cost of HDB flats, from 1 room to EA then it'll solve the problem more directly instead of beefing up our national piggy bank...
    its call wealth redistribution mah. Collect more $$$ then can fund workfare, food stamps, infra and give rebates... if not $ come from where? have to fleece the sheeps to make wool mah.

    "inclusive" society mah. means include everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    I think they will. They would want to control the size.

    So the next question is, if this is done, then those alr bot MM units will be Huat alr...as no more new supply in the market...

    So in short, buy MM now before new measures

    logical conclusion

    its already controlling min MM 1bed room size cannot be smaller then 380sqf. so what developer do? 600sqf 2 bed room. or some even 3 bed room!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikan bilis
    results....
    1) shoebox price will shoot up more...
    2) at what size is shoebox?... e.g. if mnd says 550sqft is MM, then developers all build 551sq ft....


    MM become collector items!!!! rare!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    I propose an outright ban of all launches of MM < 500 sqft
    Developers upsize the a/c ledge to 100sqft, add up to 500< sqft.

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    How does holding on to MM = "HUAT!" ?

    I noticed a number of these MM units are in OCR, priced very attractively during recent launches. When the MM developments TOP, say.. 200 units up for rental at the same time... will there be a mad rush of tenants going for these MMs? seriously?

    I thought it is more like musical chair, see who is holding on to the baby when the music stops. just my personal opinion, no offence to MM buyers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    Developers upsize the a/c ledge to 100sqft, add up to 500< sqft.
    and pray tell if you may, what are you going to put on the ledge? a fridge and an air-con compressor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by regency321
    How does holding on to MM = "HUAT!" ?

    I noticed a number of these MM units are in OCR, priced very attractively during recent launches. When the MM developments TOP, say.. 200 units up for rental at the same time... will there be a mad rush of tenants going for these MMs? seriously?

    I thought it is more like musical chair, see who is holding on to the baby when the music stops. just my personal opinion, no offence to MM buyers.

    As long u are optimistic and have the won't be me mentality its a HUAT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by minority
    As long u are optimistic and have the won't be me mentality its a HUAT!
    Fortunately the MM quantum is low, I don't think any buyers will go bankrupt over these even if there was a crash. But demand for OCR MM is unknown, so it is really either a big "HUAT !" or big fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157
    and pray tell if you may, what are you going to put on the ledge? a fridge and an air-con compressor?
    A/c ledge not incl in GFA, some developers got creative. See Lavernes Loft 37sqm but the a/c ledge is almost half the size of the bedroom, even W/D ended up in the balcony.

    Sorry, no offense to Lavernes owners here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    A/c ledge not incl in GFA, some developers got creative. See Lavernes Loft 37sqm but the a/c ledge is almost half the size of the bedroom, even W/D ended up in the balcony.

    Sorry, no offense to Lavernes owners here.
    its not that the ac ledge is big. just that the room is tiny...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vboy
    ......

    'HDB flats not shrinking'

    On public flats, Mr Khaw said that, based on his checks, HDB housing norms have not changed for the past 15 years. "There's been this misunderstanding that HDB has somehow in recent years shrunk the units but we have not. If you visit our new three-room, four-room and five-room (flats), they are very comfortable."
    ......
    so HDB 3room flat now versus 3 room flat 20 years ago bigger or smaller?
    same for 4room,5room flats.

    who ever asked Khaw about comfortability - which cannot be measured directly. sizes in square feet and square meters are definitely measurable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaozong7
    If shoebox units continue to be bought at a crazy rate, Khaw will likely come up with some counter measures.

    Either (1) limit the no of shoebox units at a new launch (say max 20%) or (2) impose ABSD on shoebox units, say at 10-15%.
    CM4MM

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