Nike quality sucks lol, sg landed needs not return best in 5 to 10y, sis Mondrian already highlights there is alternative like parvis.Originally Posted by howgozit
Music of the night
Nike quality sucks lol, sg landed needs not return best in 5 to 10y, sis Mondrian already highlights there is alternative like parvis.
Ride at your own risk !!!
Be Heard, not the Herd
Well, sure. But apparently, TS needs to cut back on his vacations and restaurant meals. He will also need to assume that this level of income can be sustained over a long period of time.
If I am not wrong, TS is looking at landed more for capital appreciation than the pros and cons of living in one. There should be better ways to grow your money than to be stuck with an illiquid asset.
Aiyoh, I dunno why I so kaypoh.. It's his money anyway. Maybe, we just TCSS to justify our own decisions..
Last edited by fclim; 21-08-12 at 08:59.
Senior
Why not? Wonder what will be the response like?
Senior
With an income of $500-600k, he will probably has a credit card for entertainment from the company (not public sector).
Newbie
Seekadvice,
Two things which I am curious about, which I hope you don't mind me asking (though if you do mind, you can always choose not to answer)-
1) You mentioned you are a conservative couple and you have waited patiently on the sidelines for 3 years. So what is the trigger event for jumping into a $4m property now? The macroeconomic factors aren't particularly rosy, EU and US are mired in significant sovereign debt, demand drivers seem muted for the short to medium term. India is experiencing countless policy missteps. China is facing external headwinds. So why? Why now? Why $4m and not $2m?
2) For a household with income level of $500-600k, a total savings of $1.5m (since your present condo costs you $550k and you have an additional $1m in savings) after about 20 years of working is not particularly high. I am saying this cos your affordability assumptions for borrowing the next $2m seemed to be based on the number of years the current salary is required to repay, though you might also wish to consider your savings level, household expenditure levels and the sustainability of your current income for the next 20 years esp since you are buying a property for self stay.
Good luck on your bank valn! Do update us.
amk,
I am also keen to get a decent freehold in the ccr of at least 2000sqft of built in space. Actually prices have been softening in this segment, and people often overlook that a large contiguous land plot in the ccr (eg parvis at holland hill has land size of 244k sqft, with only 248 units) with much higher plot ratios and building height limits than landed could sometimes be more attractive.
Here're my responses to the questions posted by Mondrian:
1. What's trigger for going into a $4m ppty now?
Like i said in my original post, someone told me that it is not easy to get a landed ppty that one likes, so it's seizing an oppty. Ofcourse, there's always a question of w/r who is the bigger sucker? the buyer (me) or the seller?
2. Total savings of $1.5m not high?
I agree & I'm ashamed of my spendthrift ways in earlier years. Condo is fully paid up, so if counted, it's $2m savings. I already set aside some $ in the form of yield assets (not ppty) but not convenient to discuss them.
Valuation from bank came back today & val is looking v attractive (ie, asking price 10% below the val). So i think seller is probably holding out quite firmly for asking price....but he's definitely not stuck as he bought it in the 1990s.
I have also looked at Parvis. Somethign similar to that is Flamingo Valley in Siglap. Both has large contiguous land plots. Closer to town, I also like Yong An Park. But all v expensive & pay hefty maintenance fees.
Junior
To TS, why do you consider landed as an "upgrade" ?
Asking price "10% lower than valuation" is nothing new in today's market btw. Valuation can support whatever price ppl ask.
Junior
For me, I like staying in landed for the space. For facilities, I had bought a country club membership that has provided my family with better facilities than any condo in Singapore and the monthly fee is $150.
Newbie
A lot of people aspire to buy landed after condo lah.
That is why when the prices shot up in late 2009, I switched from condo to landed because I realise that landed will be the next one to increase in prices by a lot. When you can fetch a high price for your current condos, there will be people who will use that money to "upgrade" to landed.... and there are for more condo owners than landed sellers.
My bet was correct but pity I did not leverage and buy two landed properties instead of one...
The "space is very different. Just sleeping in a big bedroom is different to me. Having a large Home Theatre room is also something that was not possible before. Having a backyard to air dry your clothes is also good. My previous condo we had to hang our clothes in the living room to dry....
Having a day bed to relax in helps to make your bedroom more conducive to sleep as the bedroom is only for sleeping at night. not for playing, reading, etc. An extra tv room to watch TV allows you not to disturb others or fight over TVs.
Senior
Landed also has to depend on location. City fringe or city centre is better.
Global recession is coming....
To use the facilities in the country club you need to drive there, and you also need to drive your wife & kids there? You need to own a car right? Also, Isn't the time spent is more precious than the money you save?
You pay $150 for something that is not yours to begin with? What about the club's membership fees which you get nothing back if the club folded?
Newbie
Thanks for replying. Hey, you are not answerable to anyone on how you spent your money but maybe your dependents/family, so there's nothing to be ashamed of. Anyway, enjoy your purchase!
Junior
To wind30, apart from the backyard hanging cloth thing, all of the things u mentioned are not landed exclusive, are they ? Really you just need a bigger apartment , no ? But there are items condo exclusive, like u can walk down with slippers and jump into a proper sized pool straight ; visitor friendly basement car parks say when u throw a party; etc... Say 4mil today, a not here not there landed outskirts, or a large size condo near town, which one gives u better quality of life ? I know this is a personal thing, but honestly u can always get a big bungalow in woodlands, which is still far cheaper than a big 4bd in Parvis.
Newbie
err....I know they are not exclusive. But I only have that amount of money....
The PSF for condo is much higher than landed in terms of living space. Like you said, Landed has no facilities. It is give and take. Given the fixed amount of money, do you want more space in landed housing or facilities/security in condo.
For me the adv of space far outweighs facilities as I almost never used any of the facilities in my previous condo.
Be Heard, not the Herd
My family hates living in landed cos got those creepy crawly things running about the house. My friend's landed worse. Got to put sulphur powder to prevent snakes from coming in. Another friend got to chase monkeys out of the house everyday. And yes, lots of lizards, shit, gecko sounds and all. Oh well, maybe we are just unlucky and not nature friendly. Not all landed are like that, I suppose. But a good place for Science study on animal adaptations, prey and predators too.
Last edited by fclim; 22-08-12 at 00:40.
Newbie
I agree that landed property living is not for everyone but to answer seeksadvice's question of whether Singaporeans ultimately aspire to own a landed property over a condo, it's only meaningful if we are making an apple to apple comparison of the 2 types of properties in comparable areas. So do you prefer a smaller condo at holland hill/river valley or a larger house in D15 Katong? My gut feeling is that most Singaporeans will choose the house and it will be perceived as a step-up. As for wealth maximization, I think landed properties will win hands down in the long run. It will satisfy both your emotional and logical needs.
And there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed about being able to pay down 50% for a $4m property by a couple in their 40s with a household income of $500-$600k a year! I think you are definitely a lot less leveraged than the general population. More than half of the Singapore population will be wiped out before your banker will call on your loan if we are hit by a major downturn. And then the banks will go out of business.
You can afford it. Go for it!
Newbie
how is comparing a SMALL condo to a LARGE house a apple to apple comparison? I think a better comparison will be a 3000sf penthouse vs a 3000sf landed property. Which one will you choose?I agree that landed property living is not for everyone but to answer seeksadvice's question of whether Singaporeans ultimately aspire to own a landed property over a condo, it's only meaningful if we are making an apple to apple comparison of the 2 types of properties in comparable areas. So do you prefer a smaller condo at holland hill/river valley or a larger house in D15 Katong? My gut feeling is that most Singaporeans will choose the house and it will be perceived as a step-up. As for wealth maximization, I think landed properties will win hands down in the long run. It will satisfy both your emotional and logical needs.
How is consuming what you invested as wealth maximization? wont someone who live in a $2m property, with $2m investment property be able to generate more wealth over time?
If you are using the last 3 to 4 years growth trend of landed property to extrapolate the future capital appreciation, then you are in for trouble because landed property has already reaches its peak, and thats the reason why detached houses prices are coming down despite the rich are still getting richer. Due to its lousy rental yield, if your landed property prices doesnt appreciate 2 to 3% every year, then what is the point?
Newbie
My friend's place in Katong has the same snake problem. There was a snake under the house which they could never catch. One rainy day it flooded, and snake got out. Police was roped in the catch snake, but snake escaped through the drains.
After the snake left, the rats came. Or rather the rats were there all along, but the snake controlled their population. Faint.
Music of the night
Very good analysis 789
Might as well buy 15y ntuc bond yielding pathetic 3.65pc
If u ask spice grp CEO to buy he will still stick to bay view, part of biz expenses
Ride at your own risk !!!
Newbie
landed attract different set of people. Paying 350 or so for condo facilities vs 150 is about the same as some have membership fees paid by the company. Its not just the pool n gym but the club faciliities that is lacking in the condo.To use the facilities in the country club you need to drive there, and you also need to drive your wife & kids there? You need to own a car right? Also, Isn't the time spent is more precious than the money you save?
You pay $150 for something that is not yours to begin with? What about the club's membership fees which you get nothing back if the club folded?
Senior
That's the part I dislike about landed. Roaches, rats and mosquitoes.
Senior
It is a really interesting discussion so far. IMO, Landed has more privacy than Penthouse. Car can drive right into the house for landed and does not share carpark lots with the rest of the residents as in the case of condo. This is extremely useful when you have loads of stuff to unload from the car after marketing.
tweet @condoexchange
I was under the impression most landed owners will have full time maid(s) and the maid(s) will take care of the groceries shopping etc...
Music of the night
There are 2 types: one is so rich that landed is peanut to them, hire 4 maids and just enjoy life, another type is STUCK type, after paying for landed cannot enjoy life
Ride at your own risk !!!
Newbie
I stayed in Condos before and have faced the same problems with lizards and not to mention cockroaches from the rubbish chute. As for landed, the lizards exist, no denying it. So does the butterflies and occassional birds that decides to pay a visit. As for monkeys, I don't recall seeing one where I am living.
I don't oppose condo living and I find it comical everytime someone brings up the 'animal' issue in landed properties. If you keep the properties clean, it will be clean. Vice versa.
In my younger days, I aspire to leave in a full facilities condo, I imagine myself taking a dip in the pool, playing tennis, having weekend bbq with friends and families. To be honest, I never like landed and had the same conceptions as most - parking issue, security, facilities, animals, etc. Truth be told, after 3 years living in the condo, I only use the facilities once, maybe twice. Have friends and families over only during the housewarming as the space was small.
Nowadays, having families over is a pleasure with the amount of space. Parking could be an issue, but non so far after probably the 50th time they were over here. Compared to condo, entertaining it much more pleasurable due to space. I park in my own garage, taking out grocery is so much easier compared to before where I had to make 3 trips up and down the lift in a condo (not to mention the extra steps I had to take to walk to the car parked far away from the lift due to lack of space) I walk out in my boxers and tatter shirt to my backyard to sit and enjoy the evening breeze ( something I could not do freely in the condo). I don't pay the $500 maintence fee and sinking funds every month and with the money I 'save', I give the house a facelift every 5 years with a fresh coat of paint and minor repairs.
I understand where the threadshetter is going. As some has mention, one is free to spend as he/she wishes. Afterall you have only 1 life. No point hoarding millions of dollars when you are not around. Some say what about the next generation? I am happy to say I had got what I had through sheer hard work and perhaps a little luck. My parents provided me with an education in a local U which I thank them for. They provided shelter, clothes and food through my younger days which I am grateful for. As for my legacy to my kids? It is the land we have now. For better or for worse, this will be what they will have when I am not around. As a headstart, they would have far more than what I have and that should suffice.
As for the lizards, snakes and monkeys, I would consider them as friends instead of pests now...
Be Heard, not the Herd
Sure, landed got good points as well. Birds..ah... My garden used to be carpet grass. Very nice... Then birds came and shit in it. Cow grass and all kinds of weeds started to grow. Every day got to clear the weeds. After a while, gave up. Then after two years, nice carpet grass became cow grass all over.
Groceries... yes. Landed very convenient. But got maids to help carry in condo. However, I make my kids carry the groceries instead. You want to eat, you do the work.
My monthly utility bill is quite huge. Got front and back yards to wash. Mop the floor a few times a day etc...very clean, but still got "friends" leh.
Lastly, the following is a true story.
http://www.ttsh.com.sg/about-us/news...e.aspx?id=3228
As with everything else, there are pros and cons.
Newbie
That is excatly what I am trying to say. You got the words right off my mouth... Just had to say myas there are more 1 sided view than a balance view around.
dreaming a dream
as a mitigating factor, i think not many folks can offer a truly balanced view cos there's just not that many (as % of home owners) who actually had the experience of owning (not renting) both landed and condo at roughly the same time (to avoid the disparate comparisons over the living experience over different periods of time).
Newbie
hahhaa... my wife/kids would faint...luckily we have not experience this... one tip is make sure all the rubbish are cleared every night and no food (including potatoes, rice or whatever) is left exposed in the backyard.
we left the rubbish overnite the last time and the rats came and mess it out. so i ask my maid to clear it before they go to sleep. it really works.
as for mosquitoes, make sure all the public drains are of debris as sometimes when dry leaves dropped into the drain it may choked the water.
landed is not for everyone. as we have a big family, it makes more sense for us + I like koi pond..
Newbie
also useful when little children falls asleep in the car.. easier to carry them... used to have strong muscle when I have to carry them from the car park to the house last time when I was staying in a condo... now so flabby..
Newbie
Hi guys,
I use those commercial electric products that help to ward off all types of creepy crawlies and they work like a charm. You just need to install one piece per level for the desired effect. Hope that it helps for those of you with many "friends" at your landed home.
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