D15- The next Super Prime

[Ringo33]

Thats an interesting map that u showing. Its an outdated 1966 map of Singapore before the coming up of Marine Parade area which is marked by the dotted area. That area was reclaimed and called Marine Parade. And in 2006, Goh Chok Tong asserted that there wont be anymore plans for new estate at reclaimed land after Marine Parade in Singapore. This is because the cost of reclamation at that time in the 1960s touches $606 million which was a substantial amount.

Its not outdated, its the land use plan 2013.

[lky123]

When that happens, one FH gem remaining will be Ocean Park which will keep its seaview overlooking VJC.

[Tmi]

The land reclaimation map plan for east coast has been around for more than 10 years and its definitely not something new. Currently there is ZERO land reclaimation activity taking place at east coast, and there would be none in the near future. I can't reveal too much here but you can mark my words for this

[Ringo33]

The land reclaimation map plan for east coast has been around for more than 10 years and its definitely not something new. Currently there is ZERO land reclaimation activity taking place at east coast, and there would be none in the near future. I can't reveal too much here but you can mark my words for this

When tuas reclamation is completed they will shift their focus to east coast

[Tmi]

When tuas reclamation is completed they will shift their focus to east coast

Yes you are half right, the focus would be on east coast but not on land reclaimation. Lets keep our fingers crossed for the big news as what some of the forummers here have already hinted =)

[Ringo33]

Yes you are half right, the focus would be on east coast but not on land reclaimation. Lets keep our fingers crossed for the big news as what some of the forummers here have already hinted =)

East Coast Park will be transformed as they need to prepare for life without coast line when reclamation starts. perhaps in future it will be rename as Old East Coast Park.

[Tmi]

Lol.. as Shawn said.. by the time land reclamation takes effect probably both you and me are already dead... okie nuff said... Have a great weekend!

[Allthepies]

East Coast is the best, please quickly spend all your money there... hee hee hee...

[Shawn]

Hi Ringo33, the map that you show here is an outdated map of Singapore. That map shows the dotted line in east coast which is actually the Marine Parade Road estate before it was reclaimed in 1960s. Just go and see the current map of Singapore and compare that with the map that you showing here on this forum. I am a geography expert and I know the coastline of Singapore doesnt look like that presently. Go to Singapore streetdirectory.com to get the most detailed map of current Singapore.

There wont be anymore reclamation for Singapore as its a very expensive exercise in addition to the pollution that it has caused to the sea and the environment. And the fact that the government is spending billions of dollars on upgrading the east coast park precinct, your justification for reclamation of east coast simply doesnt make sense at all.

Goh Chok Tong has mentioned in 2006 that there wont be anymore major reclamation work to create a new estate, with the last being Marine Parade Estate in the 1960s. See url at http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_...010-08-06.html

[Shawn]

Btw Ringo the 2 dotted lines on the sea of Singapore in your map have already been reclaimed long ago and they include:

(a) Marine Parade Estate - the big piece at the east coast
(b) Marina East and South - the smaller piece on the left of east coast or near the south of Singapore

Ongoing reclamation is still being done for the Tuas/West Coast Area so that once this is completed soon, in 2027, the port of Singapore will shift 100% to the West Coast leaving the East Coast and the Tanjong Pagar area free from the pollution of the cargo ships that park there before moving to their next destination.

[thomaspaine]

That is correct. It is called Charlie's Boom Town.

I observed that since the old days, whenever the D15 prices creep up, it is used by the market as a gauge for the overall market sentiments.

From 1970-1980s, the prices in D15 were creeping up and supposedly, it was labelled by the older generations as the enclave for the rich. Then from 1980-1990, the Indonesian started buying Orchard and no longer was D15 known for that.

But recently, I observed quite a number of my D15 neighbors in my neighborhood are Indonesian hence confirming that D15 will cheong like in 1980s.

Very difficult to tell them apart from the locals except when you took a peep at their names in MCST.

Bro BJ21

If what you anticipate is true, then the landed at Mountbatten will be more than landed in Bukit Timah ?

[hopeful]

Btw Ringo the 2 dotted lines on the sea of Singapore in your map have already been reclaimed long ago and they include:

(a) Marine Parade Estate - the big piece at the east coast
(b) Marina East and South - the smaller piece on the left of east coast or near the south of Singapore
.....

i am not a geography expert, i checked with google earth, doesnt seems like the 2 dotted areas have been reclaimed. unless google earth is also outdated

[Shawn]

i am not a geography expert, i checked with google earth, doesnt seems like the 2 dotted areas have been reclaimed. unless google earth is also outdated

Well then u need to open your geography book to see the latest map. There are no gulf or bay land in Singapore east coast. All have been reclaimed. I am living in the east coast for 20 years so I know the sea lines of the east coast area.

To confirm go to your mobile phone and go to MAP (NAVIGATION) if you have the latest android/iphone. There are no gulf/bay at the east coast as in Ringo33 map which probably has not been updated for years. Or probably that map given by Ringo33 was the original map of Singapore before any reclamation ever takes place.

The fact that cost of sand is so expensive and Singapore is facing shortage of sand/building materials make it almost impossible that there will be any more new reclamation after TUAS. The reclaimed land at Marina East/Marina South are still yet to be utilised after 30 years.

[hopeful]

.....
To confirm go to your mobile phone and go to MAP (NAVIGATION) if you have the latest android/iphone. There are no gulf/bay at the east coast as in Ringo33 map which probably has not been updated for years. Or probably that map given by Ringo33 was the original map of Singapore before any reclamation ever takes place.

are you talking about the 2 reserve lands next to the dotted area? i think map maker also salah in including the 2 reserve lands as already been reclaimed. that's where the confusion arise.

[Ringo33]

Btw Ringo the 2 dotted lines on the sea of Singapore in your map have already been reclaimed long ago and they include:

(a) Marine Parade Estate - the big piece at the east coast
(b) Marina East and South - the smaller piece on the left of east coast or near the south of Singapore

Ongoing reclamation is still being done for the Tuas/West Coast Area so that once this is completed soon, in 2027, the port of Singapore will shift 100% to the West Coast leaving the East Coast and the Tanjong Pagar area free from the pollution of the cargo ships that park there before moving to their next destination.

Your map reading skills are super lousy.

The 2 plot of land marked as reserves site along east coast has not been reclaim yet. You can see that from the alignment of the Marina Coastal Expressway and ECP in black color.

[Shawn]

Your map reading skills are super lousy.

The 2 plot of land marked as reserves site along east coast has not been reclaim yet. You can see that from the alignment of the Marina Coastal Expressway and ECP in black color.

Then the map is super salah cause its totally wrong even if we consider before or after reclamation. As far as I can see, its impossible to do reclaim on already reclaimed land, and the fact that the existing reclaim land at Marina East and Marina South are not even utilised yet after 30 years.

So the talk about reclaiming new lands carry no substance at all. There are hundreds of reasons why reclamation wont happen.

[Ringo33]

Then the map is super salah cause its totally wrong even if we consider before or after reclamation. As far as I can see, its impossible to do reclaim on already reclaimed land, and the fact that the existing reclaim land at Marina East and Marina South are not even utilised yet after 30 years.

So the talk about reclaiming new lands carry no substance at all. There are hundreds of reasons why reclamation wont happen.

The map is not super salah, its your interpretation of the map that is salah. The map is taken from MND land use planning 2013, how can it be salah?

Like I said those reserves sites right next to the dotted island are land which government will reclaim in the future.

Singapore appetite for land reclamation will not stop.

Here is a documentary on what future Singapore island will be like in future. you can start watching from 5.20

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/tv...ri/647648.html

I have no clue what you talking when you say reclaim on reclaim land. Reclamation are building new land out into the sea not on top of land.

[hopeful]

Hi Ringo33, the map that you show here is an outdated map of Singapore. That map shows the dotted line in east coast which is actually the Marine Parade Road estate before it was reclaimed in 1960s. Just go and see the current map of Singapore and compare that with the map that you showing here on this forum. I am a geography expert and I know the coastline of Singapore doesnt look like that presently. Go to Singapore streetdirectory.com to get the most detailed map of current Singapore.
..........

what is wrong with the education system?

if economic experts same high standard as a geography expert here, i really cannot imagine the results

[Shawn]

The map is not super salah, its your interpretation of the map that is salah. The map is taken from MND land use planning 2013, how can it be salah?

Like I said those reserves sites right next to the dotted island are land which government will reclaim in the future.

Singapore appetite for land reclamation will not stop.

Here is a documentary on what future Singapore island will be like in future. you can start watching from 5.20

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/tv...ri/647648.html

I have no clue what you talking when you say reclaim on reclaim land. Reclamation are building new land out into the sea not on top of land.

U can wait la for east coast to be reclaimed lol. While the government is spending millions upgrading the east coast park and even building new places like Parkland and refurbish old eating places near east coast. Maybe if these people who invest in these new set up wont get pissed by the reclamation plan, I dont see anyone else will. And in the meantime, they can also reclaim the straits of Johor and make Singapore part of Malaysia, why not huh? Your logic is totally not there at all. There are still ample lands at the reclaimed site Marina East and Marina South which for 30 years still have not been fully utilised. And now you are talking about reclaiming new sites ??? Where is the logic? The government reclaim Tuas for a reason, that is to relocate the PSA and the Singapore harbour from Tanjong Pagar to Tuas 100%, so as to free the land for commercial and residential development. We are going to have more empty land now in the city with the addition of Tanjong Pagar shipping area. In addition, Singapore plans to clear east coast from the ships and cargo which pollute the park and the sea there. So why the need to reclaim east coast ?? When there are plenty of lands and reclaimed lands which are still not used yet.

[Shawn]

Hi Ringo33, the map that you show here is an outdated map of Singapore. That map shows the dotted line in east coast which is actually the Marine Parade Road estate before it was reclaimed in 1960s. Just go and see the current map of Singapore and compare that with the map that you showing here on this forum. I am a geography expert and I know the coastline of Singapore doesnt look like that presently. Go to Singapore streetdirectory.com to get the most detailed map of current Singapore.

There wont be anymore reclamation for Singapore as its a very expensive exercise in addition to the pollution that it has caused to the sea and the environment. And the fact that the government is spending billions of dollars on upgrading the east coast park precinct, your justification for reclamation of east coast simply doesnt make sense at all.

Goh Chok Tong has mentioned in 2006 that there wont be anymore major reclamation work to create a new estate, with the last being Marine Parade Estate in the 1960s. See url at http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_...010-08-06.html

Goh Chok Tong already mentioned there wont be anymore major reclamation exercise to build a Marine Parade-like estate in the future. If u dont trust GCK, who else can you trust ??

[blackjack21trader]

cheaper to move than to reclaim la.

[blackjack21trader]

All the gong gong TCS artistes move to wrong location la. Those that stay in D15 like Xiang Yun and her handsome husband ( His name I suddenly forget la, paiseh la ) will benefit from my CELESTIAL POWER.

[blackjack21trader]

Watch:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V32OmOAX74Q

[Ringo33]

U can wait la for east coast to be reclaimed lol. While the government is spending millions upgrading the east coast park and even building new places like Parkland and refurbish old eating places near east coast. Maybe if these people who invest in these new set up wont get pissed by the reclamation plan, I dont see anyone else will. And in the meantime, they can also reclaim the straits of Johor and make Singapore part of Malaysia, why not huh? Your logic is totally not there at all. There are still ample lands at the reclaimed site Marina East and Marina South which for 30 years still have not been fully utilised. And now you are talking about reclaiming new sites ??? Where is the logic? The government reclaim Tuas for a reason, that is to relocate the PSA and the Singapore harbour from Tanjong Pagar to Tuas 100%, so as to free the land for commercial and residential development. We are going to have more empty land now in the city with the addition of Tanjong Pagar shipping area. In addition, Singapore plans to clear east coast from the ships and cargo which pollute the park and the sea there. So why the need to reclaim east coast ?? When there are plenty of lands and reclaimed lands which are still not used yet.

you have only 1 chance to convince me that you know what you are talking about and that chance has past. you are not a "geography expert" as you claim to be because you cant even read the basic singapore map of east coast. And that, is a tell tale sign of a salesman talk.

It is also very illogical of a person who claim to know Singapore so well to question about the logic Singapore interest in land reclamation. And all excuses and examples you have given are in fact good examples highlighting the importance of land reclamation and the fruit of government drive in reclamation.

The area of undeveloped land in Singapore has got no bearing of Singapore thirst to expand out our coast line, because Singapore government doesnt only plan for your generation or next generation, they are planning for long term future of this country.

As global resources are limited, Singapore cannot afford to slowdown on land reclamation because the day will come when developing countries like Vietnam, Myanmar and Cambodia etc will say no to more sand export.

[Ringo33]

Goh Chok Tong already mentioned there wont be anymore major reclamation exercise to build a Marine Parade-like estate in the future. If u dont trust GCK, who else can you trust ??

LKY say 2 is enough.

[Shawn]

cheaper to move than to reclaim la.

I Agree totally. The last time the Singapore government reclaimed Marine Parade area it cost them $600++ million to do so in the 1970s/1980s. Now the cost of sand has multiplied more than 10 times already. It will a big dent to the government's pocket possibly in the region of US$10 billion or more to reclaim a similar land size as Marine Parade.

And the last time they reclaimed Marine Parade, they used much from the soil they got from flattening Bedok and the surrounding which used to be hilly areas. Now where are they going to get all the soil ?? With the development cost going up like a pyramid, someone is still talking about reclamation. Marina East is still barren land after 30 years being reclaimed and the government just built golf course and Marina East Garden cause they dont know what to do with it for now.

You can talk about reclamation once all the lands at Marina East and Marina South have been properly utilised and Tanjong Pagar shipping area re-used again. That will be like 50 years from now. And by then, cost of sand will be like the cost of gold hahaha.

[Shawn]

you have only 1 chance to convince me that you know what you are talking about and that chance has past. you are not a "geography expert" as you claim to be because you cant even read the basic singapore map of east coast. And that, is a tell tale sign of a salesman talk.

It is also very illogical of a person who claim to know Singapore so well to question about the logic Singapore interest in land reclamation. And all excuses and examples you have given are in fact good examples highlighting the importance of land reclamation and the fruit of government drive in reclamation.

The area of undeveloped land in Singapore has got no bearing of Singapore thirst to expand out our coast line, because Singapore government doesnt only plan for your generation or next generation, they are planning for long term future of this country.

As global resources are limited, Singapore cannot afford to slowdown on land reclamation because the day will come when developing countries like Vietnam, Myanmar and Cambodia etc will say no to more sand export.

Then you should ask the government why they left the Marina East barren land for almost 30 years with only developments being the golf course and the Marina East Garden ?? And Marina South is still very much empty. There arent any residential developments at all in both areas for now after 30 years of reclamation. If they are really thirsty for land, why dont they make full use of the land which they reclaimed 30 years ago ??

In addition, we still have plenty of empty lands in Yishun, Bukit Timah, Ponggol, Woodlands for future residential needs which probably could last us for the next 30-50 years. If the government wants to reclaim any land, there must be a justification for that. The last time they reclaimed Marine Parade, it was an introductory exercise and they learnt that its not worth it cause it cost them US$600++ million in the 1970s/1980s. That time $1 million is like $100 million. The reason for the reclamation was also because they already had a large supply of sand which comes from the flattening of hills/areas near Bedok for the building of new HDBs which was later sold to the public in the 1970s.

Now the cost of soil has gone up more than 10 times. And where are they going to get all that soil ?? In the 1970s, there arent much development near East Coast. Now we have ameneties, private housing/condos etc which make it unlikely that such a major exercise will ever happen again.

Ok this is my last post. I think i must stop talking about this nonsense. Its wasting my time. Ringo can continue to hallucinate about East Coast being reclaimed.

[Ringo33]

Then you should ask the government why they left the Marina East barren land for almost 30 years with only developments being the golf course and the Marina East Garden ?? And Marina South is still very much empty. There arent any residential developments at all in both areas for now after 30 years of reclamation. If they are really thirsty for land, why dont they make full use of the land which they reclaimed 30 years ago ??

In addition, we still have plenty of empty lands in Yishun, Bukit Timah, Ponggol, Woodlands for future residential needs which probably could last us for the next 30-50 years. If the government wants to reclaim any land, there must be a justification for that. The last time they reclaimed Marine Parade, it was an introductory exercise and they learnt that its not worth it cause it cost them US$600++ million in the 1970s/1980s. That time $1 million is like $100 million. The reason for the reclamation was also because they already had a large supply of sand which comes from the flattening of hills/areas near Bedok for the building of new HDBs which was later sold to the public in the 1970s.

Now the cost of soil has gone up more than 10 times. And where are they going to get all that soil ?? In the 1970s, there arent much development near East Coast. Now we have ameneties, private housing/condos etc which make it unlikely that such a major exercise will ever happen again.

Ok this is my last post. I think i must stop talking about this nonsense. Its wasting my time. Ringo can continue to hallucinate about East Coast being reclaimed.

The way you put it is like Singapore has got too much land and we should be happy and contented with what we have because Shawn say so.

If sands today are 10 times more expensive than the past, wont that make more sense to keep buying them NOW because sands is going to be 20 times more expensive in future.

And please dont give illogical excuses like why this and that land are left vacant to justify that Singapore doesnt need more land.

Like I said, Singapore appetite for land will not stop and the only way for Singapore to expand is reclaim southward and East Coast is the area which the government has already highlighted as future reclaim site.

You can continue with all your salesman talk, because only fools will challenge the government land use plan

[Cyberknight]

Hi Shawn, pls read up the govt white population 2030 paper whether east coast will get land reclamation or not.

[hopeful]

interesting talk on land reclamation.

not sure how accurate this article from 2003:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southea.../EG31Ae01.html

"Riau, 800km northwest of the Indonesian capital Jakarta, is the main source of sand used to support Singapore's construction sector and coastal reclamation projects. Land reclamation costs an estimated S$15 per square meter, though the reclaimed land is then sold at, currently, about S$850 (US$484) per square meter. "

wah. like turning lead to gold. the multiplier is 56x

if currently reclamation cost now S$100psm, now govt selling land at 600psf, (6000psm), multiplier is also 60x.

edit:
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw05/050414re.htm
"For a sense of scale, and cost, take Singapore's Changi Airport. Its 7.7 square miles of reclaimed land required 9.6 billion cubic feet of sand, said a civil engineering professor at a local university. The sand alone would have cost at least S$1.9 billion."


7.7sq miles = 20 million sqm.
so sand cost is about $95 psm. still cheap, when u can sell $700 psf for residential.


side thought:
wohooo, by spending $1billion, we can reclaim 10million sqm @100psm. our land will be worth 10million sqm x 6000psm = $60billion. Our reserves will be increased by another $59 billion.