Landed Property - Going Forward (2013)

[Ringo33]

As many have said, most landed people don't look for rental yield at all.. that is why the yield is so low.

They are definately not relying on rental to pay the interest of their housing loans... which is not easy anyway given the low yield.

you cannot assume all landed property owners are so cash rich and they can afford to leave many millions worth of property lying around to collect dust.

If it is true, then are then we should see such major price correction during recession isnt it?

[Kelonguni]

As many have said, most landed people don't look for rental yield at all.. that is why the yield is so low.

They are definately not relying on rental to pay the interest of their housing loans... which is not easy anyway given the low yield.

Thanks for replies. I agree most buy this category not for rental.

What I meant was, supposing interests go up, the chance of using rental to meet the loan installment is much lower than HDB or condos due to the low rental demand and yield. The less affluent who encounters economic or financing situations might find much less options or flexibility as compared to other types of housing.

If new citizens are rich and wish to invest in the future of SG, why not? But if they get multiple units and deprive natives like Ringo33 with this type of aspiration, they will have to near the risks.

[DC33_2008]

Landed is precious; FH landed is like treasure; and FH landed in prime district is priceless in Singapore.

[Ringo33]

Landed is precious; FH landed is like treasure; and FH landed in prime district is priceless in Singapore.

I would use the word senseless instead of priceless. If it is so precious why so many people are selling?

Be prepared, the 6.9m population might not actually materialized

[equalizer]

this is as good as saying that you will let your daughters sleep with any millionaires because there is a good chance that they will marry your daughters and then give birth to millionaire babies.

When Singapore import Chinese tennis players, we were talking about long term, and yes they came, they stayed, they made their money, they got screwed, they gave birth and they left.

LONG TERM.

Please stop being so gullible and try to guess someone age using his forum nick name. Age doesnt mean anything in our discussion here. fact does

Your first para is very uncalled for and I am not even going to dignify it with an answer but perhaps its an indication of how bitter and frustrated you are about not being able to own a landed.

Obviously your angst appears to be deep rooted and has clouded you. If you read carefully, I was not talking about age as in your maturity level of posting. That, I leave it to the kind readers here to form their own conclusion. What I was pointing out was that if you are still young, you have a good many years to work hard to build up your reserves. Nothing gets handed to you on a silver platter and whining about it won't help either. The govt doesn't owe you a thing. They have bigger fish to fry.

The fact of the matter is that the landed segment forms such a small segment of the market that any noise (which truly, I have not heard in any govt feedback forum of any unhappiness over landed prices) will be deemed insignificant and not worthy of their attention as their perception is that the brownie points they can score politically by pleasing this small minority is going to be miniscule.

The other fact is that any policy or measure which differentiate between a new or old citizen will run counter to their objectives in the white paper which, may I point out has been passed in parliament. The paper already states that they intend to grow the citizen population to 3.6/3.8m with an intended influx of about 25k NC pa. How you think they are going to persuade 25K foreigners pa to give up their passports to become a SC if they implement differentiated policies which disadvantage these new citizens? These potential candidates will feel like second class citizens and will tell our citizenship officers to go fly a kite. They might as well shred the white paper if they come up with such measures or policies.

You can continue griping and even write to the Minister but landed measures for new/old citizens - IMHO - NOT going to happen....

So far, I have not heard any argument or fact from you to dispute the two points above.

Let it go....work hard, be happy with what you have and strive for your dream.

[Kelonguni]

Your first para is very uncalled for and I am not even going to dignify it with an answer but perhaps its an indication of how bitter and frustrated you are about not being able to own a landed.

Obviously your angst appears to be deep rooted and has clouded you. If you read carefully, I was not talking about age as in your maturity level of posting. That, I leave it to the kind readers here to form their own conclusion. What I was pointing out was that if you are still young, you have a good many years to work hard to build up your reserves. Nothing gets handed to you on a silver platter and whining about it won't help either. The govt doesn't owe you a thing. They have bigger fish to fry.

The fact of the matter is that the landed segment forms such a small segment of the market that any noise (which truly, I have not heard in any govt feedback forum of any unhappiness over landed prices) will be deemed insignificant and not worthy of their attention as their perception is that the brownie points they can score politically by pleasing this small minority is going to be miniscule.

The other fact is that any policy or measure which differentiate between a new or old citizen will run counter to their objectives in the white paper which, may I point out has been passed in parliament. The paper already states that they intend to grow the citizen population to 3.6/3.8m with an intended influx of about 25k NC pa. How you think they are going to persuade 25K foreigners pa to give up their passports to become a SC if they implement differentiated policies which disadvantage these new citizens? These potential candidates will feel like second class citizens and will tell our citizenship officers to go fly a kite. They might as well shred the white paper if they come up with such measures or policies.

You can continue griping and even write to the Minister but landed measures for new/old citizens - IMHO - NOT going to happen....

So far, I have not heard any argument or fact from you to dispute the two points above.

Let it go....work hard, be happy with what you have and strive for your dream.

Well said. As long as HDBs are within reach of the average Singaporeans, the Govt will have done v well. Lower cost = lower interest = huge gains. Air better, lower incidence of pests, easy to maintain, easy to rent, high yield. Be thankful.

[Ringo33]

Your first para is very uncalled for and I am not even going to dignify it with an answer but perhaps its an indication of how bitter and frustrated you are about not being able to own a landed.

Obviously your angst appears to be deep rooted and has clouded you. If you read carefully, I was not talking about age as in your maturity level of posting. That, I leave it to the kind readers here to form their own conclusion. What I was pointing out was that if you are still young, you have a good many years to work hard to build up your reserves. Nothing gets handed to you on a silver platter and whining about it won't help either. The govt doesn't owe you a thing. They have bigger fish to fry.

The fact of the matter is that the landed segment forms such a small segment of the market that any noise (which truly, I have not heard in any govt feedback forum of any unhappiness over landed prices) will be deemed insignificant and not worthy of their attention as their perception is that the brownie points they can score politically by pleasing this small minority is going to be miniscule.

The other fact is that any policy or measure which differentiate between a new or old citizen will run counter to their objectives in the white paper which, may I point out has been passed in parliament. The paper already states that they intend to grow the citizen population to 3.6/3.8m with an intended influx of about 25k NC pa. How you think they are going to persuade 25K foreigners pa to give up their passports to become a SC if they implement differentiated policies which disadvantage these new citizens? These potential candidates will feel like second class citizens and will tell our citizenship officers to go fly a kite. They might as well shred the white paper if they come up with such measures or policies.

You can continue griping and even write to the Minister but landed measures for new/old citizens - IMHO - NOT going to happen....

So far, I have not heard any argument or fact from you to dispute the two points above.

Let it go....work hard, be happy with what you have and strive for your dream.

If you can truly afford to live in landed property, then you shouldnt have to be too worried about government policy against new SC from buying landed property, ultimately it is those who have over leveraged on landed property that has to be worried about any cooling measures. Perhaps that the reason why so many landed property owners are drumming up the possibility of 6.9m and paranoid when someone spoke about restriction on landed property.

IIRC, not too long ago government did introduce tougher measure to curb PR from buying landed property. If this segment is so small and foreigners contribution is go great, then why should government wants to scare them away?

Ultimately like you said as long as HDB is affordable, we should just spread our legs and welcome the rich. And if there is a war or crisis, Singaporeans should send our sons and daughter to protect the property of new SC.

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...-homes/a/50482

As for imported vs born and bred Singapore, if the new SC is so capable (as you like to assume) I am sure they can easily make more money outside property and why should they refuse to take up SC just because of landed property? On the same wave length, should Singaporeans who couldnt afford landed property also ask our government to go fly kite?

[Ringo33]

someone posted this in another thread.

Here’s my Rule of Thumb: Buy to make money today, not by selling tomorrow. Take care of the bad times, and let the good times take care of themselves.

Some say landed property owner are not bother by rental yield and only looking at long long long term appreciation.

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16843

[equalizer]

If you can truly afford to live in landed property, then you shouldnt have to be too worried about government policy against new SC from buying landed property, ultimately it is those who have over leveraged on landed property that has to be worried about any cooling measures. Perhaps that the reason why so many landed property owners are drumming up the possibility of 6.9m and paranoid when someone spoke about restriction on landed property.

IIRC, not too long ago government did introduce tougher measure to curb PR from buying landed property. If this segment is so small and foreigners contribution is go great, then why should government wants to scare them away?

Ultimately like you said as long as HDB is affordable, we should just spread our legs and welcome the rich. And if there is a war or crisis, Singaporeans should send our sons and daughter to protect the property of new SC.

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...-homes/a/50482

As for imported vs born and bred Singapore, if the new SC is so capable (as you like to assume) I am sure they can easily make more money outside property and why should they refuse to take up SC just because of landed property? On the same wave length, should Singaporeans who couldnt afford landed property also ask our government to go fly kite?

You are not answering my questions :

I am not asking you whether landed owners should be worried about restrictions or measures on landed property. The key question here is what is the driving political motivation or even possibility of govt imposing such measures. If there is no motivation on the govt's part and the possibility is so slim, then what does it even matter how or why landed owners react. Landed is restricted to citizens only. PRs never could buy landed in the first place so what additional curbs are you talking about?

So far, you have not provided any concrete evidence or argument as to why it would be in the govt's political interest to impose such curbs.

On the second point, it is not whether you are capable or rich enough such that being put at a disadvantage is of no consequence to you. Basic human nature is such that nobody wants to lose out. From all my years of dealing with people, it is the rich and powerful people who are the most calculative. The govt recognises this and it was not so long ago that just being put on an equal footing was insufficient to attract foreign talent. All kinds of incentives was thrown at them to attract them to our shores. Put yourself in the shoes of any potential candidate. You will always want to get the best deal for yourself. You are deluding yourself if you think that they are willingly going to accept being a 2nd classs citizen.

FYI. I never posted the statement on the HDB so please keep your crude analogies to yourself.

Learn to to let go and accept that life is never fair. If you channel all the effort you put in concocting all these answers and trolling the landed fourm into some productive, I am sure you will be able to afford a landed soon.

[Ringo33]

You are not answering my questions :

I am not asking you whether landed owners should be worried about restrictions or measures on landed property. The key question here is what is the driving political motivation or even possibility of govt imposing such measures. If there is no motivation on the govt's part and the possibility is so slim, then what does it even matter how or why landed owners react. Landed is restricted to citizens only. PRs never could buy landed in the first place so what additional curbs are you talking about?

So far, you have not provided any concrete evidence or argument as to why it would be in the govt's political interest to impose such curbs.

On the second point, it is not whether you are capable or rich enough such that being put at a disadvantage is of no consequence to you. Basic human nature is such that nobody wants to lose out. From all my years of dealing with people, it is the rich and powerful people who are the most calculative. The govt recognises this and it was not so long ago that just being put on an equal footing was insufficient to attract foreign talent. All kinds of incentives was thrown at them to attract them to our shores. Put yourself in the shoes of any potential candidate. You will always want to get the best deal for yourself. You are deluding yourself if you think that they are willingly going to accept being a 2nd classs citizen.

FYI. I never posted the statement on the HDB so please keep your crude analogies to yourself.

Learn to to let go and accept that life is never fair. If you channel all the effort you put in concocting all these answers and trolling the landed fourm into some productive, I am sure you will be able to afford a landed soon.

As a country, Singapore itself is already one of the most attractive place to live work play and to keep you money because of security, economic stability, and low tax, there is really no need to prostitute our land to attract NC.

Based on some of the wrong facts you are saying, I am beginning to doubt if you are even a Singaporean? or perhaps you are just a very young property investors.

1) You dont tell people that Ringo33 is about 33 years old because 10 years from now, Ringo33 will still be 33

2) Landed property is a small segment, that doesnt mean that its not under the radar of the government and I have already highlighted that government DID tweak its policy to make it hard for PR to buy landed property

3) i am not sure who ever told you that PR were NEVER allowed to buy landed property.

If you are a born and bred Singaporeans, I am not sure why are you so worried about the lack of NC if we decided to impose restriction on landed property. Does NC need to live in landed property in order to be Singaporeans?

[lajia]

Pardon me, what has garmen do that deter PR from buying landed? I only know they need to seek approval from SLA before they buy? Is that still the same? Or I wrong?
And frankly not about being concern on the rules but rather, why should they spend their energy on this small segment? Do you have any statistics that say majority of the landed are bought by new SC? And lastly, garmen has been trying very hard to integrate new SC and SC and what u predicting here will only widen the gap. U really think this will happen??

As a country, Singapore itself is already one of the most attractive place to live work play and to keep you money because of security, economic stability, and low tax, there is really no need to prostitute our land to attract NC.

Based on some of the wrong facts you are saying, I am beginning to doubt if you are even a Singaporean? or perhaps you are just a very young property investors.

1) You dont tell people that Ringo33 is about 33 years old because 10 years from now, Ringo33 will still be 33

2) Landed property is a small segment, that doesnt mean that its not under the radar of the government and I have already highlighted that government DID tweak its policy to make it hard for PR to buy landed property

3) i am not sure who ever told you that PR were NEVER allowed to buy landed property.

If you are a born and bred Singaporeans, I am not sure why are you so worried about the lack of NC if we decided to impose restriction on landed property. Does NC need to live in landed property in order to be Singaporeans?

[Ringo33]

Pardon me, what has garmen do that deter PR from buying landed? I only know they need to seek approval from SLA before they buy? Is that still the same? Or I wrong?
And frankly not about being concern on the rules but rather, why should they spend their energy on this small segment? Do you have any statistics that say majority of the landed are bought by new SC? And lastly, garmen has been trying very hard to integrate new SC and SC and what u predicting here will only widen the gap. U really think this will happen??

Question 1, 2 and 3 :

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...-homes/a/50482

Queston 4 : It is a small but important segment because it occupy huge land area which could be redeveloped to provide housing needs for Singaporeans

Question 5 : You should direct this question to landed property owners in this forum. Based on what many have posted, it seems many are betting that there will be a huge influx of NC buying landed property

Question 6 : How do you integrate NC living in landed property with 80% of Singaporeans who live in HDB flat? Wont forcing NC to live in HDB flat or even condo provide a better platform for integration

Question 7 : Yes, I believe the law needs to be tweak so that we discourage foreigners from taking up citizenship for the wrong reason.

[equalizer]

As a country, Singapore itself is already one of the most attractive place to live work play and to keep you money because of security, economic stability, and low tax, there is really no need to prostitute our land to attract NC.

Based on some of the wrong facts you are saying, I am beginning to doubt if you are even a Singaporean? or perhaps you are just a very young property investors.

1) You dont tell people that Ringo33 is about 33 years old because 10 years from now, Ringo33 will still be 33

2) Landed property is a small segment, that doesnt mean that its not under the radar of the government and I have already highlighted that government DID tweak its policy to make it hard for PR to buy landed property

3) i am not sure who ever told you that PR were NEVER allowed to buy landed property.

If you are a born and bred Singaporeans, I am not sure why are you so worried about the lack of NC if we decided to impose restriction on landed property. Does NC need to live in landed property in order to be Singaporeans?

Point 1 is totally irrrelevant to the question which I still pose to you.

2. If landed is so important (in your view) in the eyes of the govt, why has it not been singled out specifically in any of the 7 cooling measures or building guidelines like for eg HDB or MM apts?

3. Please show evidence of any changes or tweaks to written POLICY that the govt has made to curb PRs buying landed.

It is not me that is worried about the lack of NC but the govt. Do you think they will shoot themselves in the foot. On the one hand, they want to welcome NC. On the other, they impose restrictions which will disadvantage the NC. Why don't you question them about whether they are born and bred Singaporeans?

The question remains :

What concrete evidence or soild argument have you brought up so far that categorically proves the driving polictical motivation for the govt to impose curbs on NC buying landed?

[Ringo33]

Point 1 is totally irrrelevant to the question which I still pose to you.

2. If landed is so important (in your view) in the eyes of the govt, why has it not been singled out specifically in any of the 7 cooling measures or building guidelines like for eg HDB or MM apts?

3. Please show evidence of any changes or tweaks to wirtten POLICY that the govt has made to curb PRs buying landed.

It is not me that is worried about the lack of NC but your govt. Do you think they will shoot themselves in the foot. On the one hand, they want to welcome NC. On the other, they impose restrictions which will disadvantage the NC. Why don't you question them about whether they are born and bred Singaporeans?

The question remains :

What concrete evidence or soild argument have you brought up so far that categorically proves the driving polictical motivation for the govt to impose curbs on NC buying landed?

1) Yes, I do agree that age is irrelevant but I am not sure why do you even bother to guess my age using my nick name.

2) Why do you think Singapore landed property are limited to Singaporeans only

3) http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...158874/1/.html

4) Singapore is not worried about having one less billionaire coming into Singapore to buy landed property, they are only worried there are not enough skilled and white collar WORKERS coming to Singapore to fill the jobs created by both local and overseas companies.

I think you have accidentally hijack this thread to discuss about politics. Perhaps we could continue our discussion on the other thread discussing about restrictions on landed property.

I believe that I have posted some concrete facts to highlight your lack of knowledge on the policies and restriction on landed property, and I glad you said its OUR governments. So whats your nationality at birth? Perhaps we could discuss about your home country policy on land as well.

[lajia]

Quite nonsense, but no point for me to go into this...

U think maybe garmen will also change rule and say new SC children cannot go to good school because there are limited seats....can huh??

Anyway, I'm out of this thred...

Question 1, 2 and 3 :

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...-homes/a/50482

Queston 4 : It is a small but important segment because it occupy huge land area which could be redeveloped to provide housing needs for Singaporeans

Question 5 : You should direct this question to landed property owners in this forum. Based on what many have posted, it seems many are betting that there will be a huge influx of NC buying landed property

Question 6 : How do you integrate NC living in landed property with 80% of Singaporeans who live in HDB flat? Wont forcing NC to live in HDB flat or even condo provide a better platform for integration

Question 7 : Yes, I believe the law needs to be tweak so that we discourage foreigners from taking up citizenship for the wrong reason.

[equalizer]

1) Yes, I do agree that age is irrelevant but I am not sure why do you even bother to guess my age using my nick name.

2) Why do you think Singapore landed property are limited to Singaporeans only

3) http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...158874/1/.html

4) Singapore is not worried about having one less billionaire coming into Singapore to buy landed property, they are only worried there are not enough skilled and white collar WORKERS coming to Singapore to fill the jobs created by both local and overseas companies.

I think you have accidentally hijack this thread to discuss about politics. Perhaps we could continue our discussion on the other thread discussing about restrictions on landed property.

I believe that I have posted some concrete facts to highlight your lack of knowledge on the policies and restriction on landed property, and I glad you said its OUR governments. So whats your nationality at birth? Perhaps we could discuss about your home country policy on land as well.

1. Perhaps you are still missing the point or have deep insecurities about your age since you are still harping on it. Refer to my previous explanation on the age comment and move on.

2/3. I asked for specific changes to written POLICY curbing PRs BUYING landed. All you showed me was a requirement for them to sell off their land if they renounce their PR status or citizenship.

Those who renounce their citizenship or Permanent Residency are to sell their restricted residential properties in two years

Perhaps you don't get the underlying intention of this move. This is to discourage NC from giving up their citizenship. In fact, the govt knows that buying a home in SG is a big move and want them to be rooted hence this measure was introduced. You have still not rebutted my point.

4. I do not know where you get the impression that landed owners here are worried about NCs not buying their homes. Frankly, I find landed owners the most zen, reassured and calm amongst all the forumers here. They hardly post stuff in the landed sub-forum. The only one I know who is frantic and fraught with worry that NCs are buying up the landed in SG is you. If you were not worried, why did you start this thread in the first place (titled - Should there be restriction on landed property?) and pepper the entire landed forum with your derogatory comments ?:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

The fact of the matter is that the govt is welcoming 25K NC pa into SG. Will there be a percentage of these NC that buy landed. Definitely! How much, I really don't know and am not unduly worried about it because like most landed owners here, its not for sale.

Will the govt then discourage these NC from buying landed by imposing meaures to make it more difficult. Highly unlikely.

Please rebut the above if you can rather than avoiding the topic.

5. Talk about pot calling the kettle, there I was making an innocuous remark about your age in a totally different context and here you are trying to dig up on my political affiliation or nationality. To satisfy your curiousity, I am a born and bred Singaporean and am semi-retired. Before, I worked 12/15 hrs daysto get to where I am and none of it was spent in front of a computer trolling forums and digging up useless research. I am of the opinion that the govt doesn't owe you a living and you have to work hard to better yourself. It is indeed sad to see born and bred Singaporeans degenerate into whiners and complainers.

Instead of posting all these avoidance smoke screens about personal data, please get back to topic aand rebut my previous point as well :

2. If landed is so important (in your view) in the eyes of the govt, why has it not been singled out specifically in any of the 7 cooling measures or building guidelines like for eg HDB or MM apts?

Why is it so hard to let go.....if you only channelled half your energy posting all these baseless claims/comments into doing something more productive, you would be able to afford your landed soon

[Kelonguni]

I feel somewhat sad too that here is someone who has been blessed by affordability (and countless benefits of HDB) but can only feel Singaporean if he gets a landed property.

I have once lived in a huge landed area in Singapore for about a dozen years. Based on my experience, there are pros and cons to each type of housing. Much as I enjoyed the life then, the current type of landed options available to most Singaporeans is not that spectacular compared to a place with large lands available, say Australia.

If landing is really so important, do consider migration or PRship elsewhere. 500sqm of landed housing costs less than a million elsewhere in the world, but not in SG. Cars are cheap too.

I still like SG for various reasons - HDB is still the best of the best when everything is compared.

[Ringo33]

1. Perhaps you are still missing the point or have deep insecurities about your age since you are still harping on it. Refer to my previous explanation on the age comment and move on.

2/3. I asked for specific changes to written POLICY curbing PRs BUYING landed. All you showed me was a requirement for them to sell off their land if they renounce their PR status or citizenship.



Perhaps you don't get the underlying intention of this move. This is to discourage NC from giving up their citizenship. In fact, the govt knows that buying a home in SG is a big move and want them to be rooted hence this measure was introduced. You have still not rebutted my point.

4. I do not know where you get the impression that landed owners here are worried about NCs not buying their homes. Frankly, I find landed owners the most zen, reassured and calm amongst all the forumers here. They hardly post stuff in the landed sub-forum. The only one I know who is frantic and fraught with worry that NCs are buying up the landed in SG is you. If you were not worried, why did you start this thread in the first place (titled - Should there be restriction on landed property?) and pepper the entire landed forum with your derogatory comments ?:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

The fact of the matter is that the govt is welcoming 25K NC pa into SG. Will there be a percentage of these NC that buy landed. Definitely! How much, I really don't know and am not unduly worried about it because like most landed owners here, its not for sale.

Will the govt then discourage these NC from buying landed by imposing meaures to make it more difficult. Highly unlikely.

Please rebut the above if you can rather than avoiding the topic.

5. Talk about pot calling the kettle, there I was making an innocuous remark about your age in a totally different context and here you are trying to dig up on my political affiliation or nationality. To satisfy your curiousity, I am a born and bred Singaporean and am semi-retired. Before, I worked 12/15 hrs daysto get to where I am and none of it was spent in front of a computer trolling forums and digging up useless research. I am of the opinion that the govt doesn't owe you a living and you have to work hard to better yourself. It is indeed sad to see born and bred Singaporeans degenerate into whiners and complainers.

Instead of posting all these avoidance smoke screens about personal data, please get back to topic aand rebut my previous point as well :

Why is it so hard to let go.....if you only channelled half your energy posting all these baseless claims/comments into doing something more productive, you would be able to afford your landed soon

baseless claim?

1) Did you speculate that Ringo33 is 33 years young?

2) Did you claim that PR was NEVER allowed to buy landed property in Singapore

3) Did you refer Singapore government as YOUR government and then change it to THE government. Why change it from YOUR to THE instead of OUR? So what is your nationality at Birth??

AFAIK, your reply seems to get longer and longer, and much of what you said are personal assumption which contain no facts.

[equalizer]

baseless claim?

1) Did you speculate that Ringo33 is 33 years young?

2) Did you claim that PR was NEVER allowed to buy landed property in Singapore

3) Did you refer Singapore government is YOUR government and then change it to THE government. Why change it from YOUR to THE instead of OUR? So what is your nationality at Birth??

AFAIK, your reply seems to get longer and longer, and much of what you said are personal assumption which contain no facts.

Here's a short one for you. Get back to topic and rebut my points if you can.

[Ringo33]

Here's a short one for you. Get back to topic and rebut my points if you can.

the only point that you are trying to make in this entire thread is that new citizens are such a big deal to Singapore that government needs to roll out red carpet to welcome them, reward them and let them leave as they wish, while born and bred Singapore should serve of national service to protect those wealthy NC who bring their millions to Singapore to hoard our land so that they can preserve their wealth.

Instead of going round in circle, why not just tell us what is your nationality at birth so that we understand what is your true intention of trying to promote NC in this forum.

[equalizer]

the only point that you are trying to make in this entire thread is that new citizens are such a big deal to Singapore that government needs to roll out red carpet to welcome them, reward them and let them leave as they wish, while born and bred Singapore should serve of national service to protect those wealthy NC who bring their millions to Singapore to hoard our land so that they can preserve their wealth.

Instead of going round in circle, why not just tell us what is your nationality at birth so that we understand what is your true intention of trying to promote NC in this forum.

You are obviously trying to avoid the issue. Get back to topic.

There are two main points which you fail to address or rebut :

1. Landed segment is not signifcant enough for the govt to impose any new restrictions or curbs on NC buying landed. If it was really such a big deal, why has the govt not singled it out in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

2. The white paper has been passed and the govt has indicated a target of 25K NC pa. Whether you like it or not, a percentage of these NC will buy landed. Is it logical for the govt to roll out the red carpet and then impose a measure which disadvantages them?

[Ringo33]

You are obviously trying to avoid the issue. Get back to topic.

There are two main points which you fail to address or rebut :

1. Landed segment is not signifcant enough for the govt to impose any new restrictions or curbs on NC buying landed. If it was really such a big deal, why has the govt not singled it out in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

2. The white paper has been passed and the govt has indicated a target of 25K NC pa. Whether you like it or not, a percentage of these NC will buy landed. Is it logical for the govt to roll out the red carpet and then impose a measure which disadvantages them?

Ok, let me repeat this one more time.

1) Landed segment is not significant?

Q1 : Who are you to decide what is and not significant?

Q2 : If it is indeed not significant can you please explain why the government has recently imposed further restriction to make it much harder for PR to buy landed properties in Singapore. You could refer to the post I made a few pages back for the links to the article.

Q3 : Did you claim in your earlier post that PR has NEVER been allowed to buy landed property in Singapore?

2. The white paper is endorsed by PAP, not by Singaporeans, that has got nothing to do with Singaporeans speaking out on flawed policy.

There is nothing that I have proposed that will disadvantage a NC because majority of Singaporeans doesnt live or own in landed property. And if the wish to, they could

1) waiting for their sons to finish they national service, or their daughter given birth to Singaporean babies OR

2) Rent a landed property.

Q4: So what is your nationality at birth? (this is perhaps the 3rd and 4th time I am asking you)

There are a total of 4 questions, appreciate if you could answer them.

[equalizer]

Ok, let me repeat this one more time.

1) Landed segment is not significant?

Q1 : Who are you to decide what is and not significant?

Q2 : If it is indeed not significant can you please explain why the government has recently imposed further restriction to make it much harder for PR to buy landed properties in Singapore. You could refer to the post I made a few pages back for the links to the article.

Q3 : Did you claim in your earlier post that PR has NEVER been allowed to buy landed property in Singapore?

2. The white paper is endorsed by PAP, not by Singaporeans, that has got nothing to do with Singaporeans speaking out on flawed policy.

There is nothing that I have proposed that will disadvantage a NC because majority of Singaporeans doesnt live or own in landed property. And if the wish to, they could

1) waiting for their sons to finish they national service, or their daughter given birth to Singaporean babies OR

2) Rent a landed property.

Q4: So what is your nationality at birth? (this is perhaps the 3rd and 4th time I am asking you)

There are a total of 4 questions, appreciate if you could answer them.

Sigh.. I have already rebutted you countless times but it appears it has not filtered in.

Qn 1,2,3

The authorities decide on the significance and the actions of the authorities so far has proven that landed does not figure significantly in their considerations. With the heated market and 7 cooling measures, what conclusions can you draw when landed has not been singled out at all?

I have already rebutted you on Q2. The article you pointed out does not specifically highlight any new restrictions on BUYING by PRs. It only states that anyone who renounces their citizenship or PR status will have to sell the restricted properties within a time frame. You still have not shown me any recent tweaks or changes to govt policy which curbs PRs from buying landed.

Qn 4. Go read my previous post. Pt 5.

Now that I have given you the courtesy of my answers, please address mine :

Q1.

1. If landed segment is really such a big deal and so heated, why has the govt not singled it out specifically in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

Qn 2.
You can speak out all you want but you will have your say only if a referendum is called or wait till the next GE elections. A referendum can only be called under very specific circumstances.

Assuming no referendum is passed, do you think the govt will impose a restriction on NCs buying landed given the objectives of the white paper. A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Ringo33]

Sigh.. I have laready rebutted you countless times but it appears it has not filtered it.

Qn 1,2,3

The authorities decide on the significance and the actions of the authorities so far has proven that landed does not figure significantly in their considerations. With the heated market and 7 cooling measures, what conclusions can you draw when landed has not been singled out at all?

I have already rebutted you on Q2. The article you pointed out does not specifically highlight any new restrictions on BUYING by PRs. It only states that anyone who renounces their citizenship or PR status will have to sell the restricted properties within a time frame. You still have not shown me any recent govt policy which curbs PRs from buying landed.

Qn 4. Go read my previous post. Pt 5.

Now that I have given you the courtesy of my answers, please address mine :

Q1.

1. If landed segment is really such a big deal and so heated, why has the govt not singled it out specifically in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

Qn 2.
You can speak out all you want but you will have your say only if a referendum is called or wait till the next GE elections. A referendum can only be called under very specific circumstances.

Assuming no referendum is passed, do you think the govt will impose a restriction on NCs buying landed given the objectives of the white paper. A simple yes or no will suffice.

i would appreciate if you can reply my question in orderly manner instead of grouping them together


Q1 : Who are you to decide what is and not significant?

This question is addressing to you because I have not read any report from SLA or MND saying that landed property segment is insignificant. Can you show us some fact instead of using your own and sometime wrong interpretation as facts. You might also want to consider Q2 before answering this question. And just because CM7 doesnt single out landed property, that doesnt mean they are not important as CM7 did touch on commercial property either. Are they not significant?

Q2 : If it is indeed not significant can you please explain why the government has recently imposed further restriction to make it much harder for PR to buy landed properties in Singapore. You could refer to the post I made a few pages back for the links to the article.

Appreciate if you can explain what was the motivation behind our government trying to reduce the number of PR buying landed property when landed property is insignificant like you said.

Q3 : Did you claim in your earlier post that PR has NEVER been allowed to buy landed property in Singapore?

I only need a YES and NO answer.

Q4: So what is your nationality at birth? (this is perhaps the 3rd and 4th time I am asking you)

I only need the name of the country which you were born.

[equalizer]

i would appreciate if you can reply my question in orderly manner instead of grouping them together



Q1 : Who are you to decide what is and not significant?

This question is addressing to you because I have not read any report from SLA or MND saying that landed property segment is insignificant. Can you show us some fact instead of using your own and sometime wrong interpretation as facts. You might also want to consider Q2 before answering this question. And just because CM7 doesnt single out landed property, that doesnt mean they are not important as CM7 did touch on commercial property either. Are they not significant?

Q2 : If it is indeed not significant can you please explain why the government has recently imposed further restriction to make it much harder for PR to buy landed properties in Singapore. You could refer to the post I made a few pages back for the links to the article.


Appreciate if you can explain what was the motivation behind our government trying to reduce the number of PR buying landed property when landed property is insignificant like you said.

Q3 : Did you claim in your earlier post that PR has NEVER been allowed to buy landed property in Singapore?


I only need a YES and NO answer.

Q4: So what is your nationality at birth? (this is perhaps the 3rd and 4th time I am asking you)

I only need the name of the country which you were born.

It is obvious a delay tactic to avoid answering my questions.

Q1. The authorities will based their decision on statistics. Go look at Singapore statistics. Private houses only constitute 6.1% of total real estate sector in Singapore as at 2011. It will probably drop further with the new apts and HDB flats coming onstream. Is 6.1% very significant? Remember its about voter numbers and not about land size.

Q2. You still don't get it. Read what measure was imposed. The measure indicated in the article doesn't restrict or discourage PRs from buying. They only get penalized if they renounce their status. It does not disadvantage them as long as they REMAIN a PR or citizen.

Q3. Yes unless they applied for permission.

Q4. What part of 'born and bred singaporean' do you not understand. Please read my pt 5 in #46 again.

Stop avoiding the inevitable. Your delay tactics do not annoy me at all but it does show that you just unable to or are afraid answer my questions which I pose here again :

Q1.

1. If landed segment is really such a big deal and so heated, why has the govt not singled it out specifically in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

Qn 2.
You can speak out all you want but you will have your say only if a referendum is called or wait till the next GE elections. A referendum can only be called under very specific circumstances.

Assuming no referendum is passed, do you think the govt will impose a restriction on NCs buying landed given the objectives of the white paper. A simple yes or no will suffice.

[hutsutau]

Back in 1997 when the property market crashed, did the landed property market fall more or less than the condo market?

[Ringo33]

Back in 1997 when the property market crashed, did the landed property market fall more or less than the condo market?

And this is despite Singapore population growing and new citizens coming to Singapore.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-06a7.pdf

[hutsutau]

And this is despite Singapore population growing and new citizens coming to Singapore.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-06a7.pdf

If you look at the chart, the detached housing prices crashed from 1997 to 1999. It crashed the fastest and equalised with the rest of the market in 1999

[Ringo33]

It is obvious a delay tactic to avoid answering my questions.

Q1. The authorities will based their decision on statistics. Go look at Singapore statistics. Private houses only constitute 6.1% of total real estate sector in Singapore as at 2011. It will probably drop further with the new apts and HDB flats coming onstream. Is 6.1% very significant? Remember its about voter numbers and not about land size.

Q2. You still don't get it. Read what measure was imposed. The measure indicated in the article doesn't restrict or discourage PRs from buying. They only get penalized if they renounce their status. It does not disadvantage them as long as they REMAIN a PR or citizen.

Q3. Yes unless they applied for permission.

Q4. What part of 'born and bred singaporean' do you not understand. Please read my pt 5 in #46 again.

Stop avoiding the inevitable. Your delay tactics do not annoy me at all but it does show that you just unable to or are afraid answer my questions which I pose here again :

Q1.

1. If landed segment is really such a big deal and so heated, why has the govt not singled it out specifically in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

Qn 2.
You can speak out all you want but you will have your say only if a referendum is called or wait till the next GE elections. A referendum can only be called under very specific circumstances.

Assuming no referendum is passed, do you think the govt will impose a restriction on NCs buying landed given the objectives of the white paper. A simple yes or no will suffice.

This is not a delay tactic, this is to ensure that facts of our discussion doesnt get muddle by baseless assumptions

Private houses only constitute 6.1% of total real estate sector in Singapore as at 2011. It will probably drop further with the new apts and HDB flats coming onstream. Is 6.1% very significant? Remember its about voter numbers and not about land size.

There is where you are wrong. In a country that need to spend billions of dollar reclaiming land, its the land area which is more important to Singapore, not the % of population living in landed property. Do you happen to know what is the land area currently occupied by landed property at the moment?

You still don't get it. Read what measure was imposed. The measure indicated in the article doesn't restrict or discourage PRs from buying. They only get penalized if they renounce their status. It does not disadvantage them as long as they REMAIN a PR or citizen.

This is an example of selective reading.

"After the further tightening up, I suspect we are looking at very few people who would qualify. I think probably less than half of those who had previously qualified under the earlier strict criteria would qualify now. I'd be surprised if approvals are more than 50 per year," said Mr Shanmugam"

Yes unless they applied for permission.

this is exactly what you wrote, word for word. Doesnt sound the same as what you just said.

Landed is restricted to citizens only. PRs never could buy landed in the first place so what additional curbs are you talking about?

What part of 'born and bred singaporean' do you not understand. Please read my pt 5 in #46 again.

You cant blame me for asking when you address Singapore government as YOUR government.

1. If landed segment is really such a big deal and so heated, why has the govt not singled it out specifically in all the recent cooling measures like for e.g HDB/MM apts

What is the point of asking when you choose to ignore my earlier post about government imposing more restriction on landed property ownership. http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...158874/1/.html

Before asking me this question, have you ever question the validity of your argument here. Can you use the same argument to say that commercial property segment is insignificant to Singapore because they have been left out in almost all the CMs.

You can speak out all you want but you will have your say only if a referendum is called or wait till the next GE elections. A referendum can only be called under very specific circumstances.

Assuming no referendum is passed, do you think the govt will impose a restriction on NCs buying landed given the objectives of the white paper. A simple yes or no will suffice.

You question is based on assumption and you are asking a yes and no reply? Whats your purpose?

Based on the mood on the ground, I would like to believe the a referendum will be be called and that government could possibly introduce green paper to supersede the white paper before the next election.

[Kelonguni]

If you look at the chart, the detached housing prices crashed from 1997 to 1999. It crashed the fastest and equalised with the rest of the market in 1999

Thanks. Hope this pacifies everyone.

It's a free market. Let he who takes the biggest risk harvest the biggest gain.

Greater risk also means the greatest free fall possible. Despite land shortage, a combination of factors like much greater absolute quantum, interest rate increase, lack of rental demand, plus can only sell to Singaporeans or new citizens, means that if and when price drops, few will buy even if they are eligible or has the ability to.

So please be patient if one is adamant about this segment of housing... Risks still outweigh gains for me.