Landed Property - Going Forward (2013)

[Blue]

The graph shows that all properties (be it landed or non-landed) move in the same direction over the years.

If landed crash, condos also crash. Many of those landed owners are the bosses of the condos owners in work life. So if your boss has to force sell his landed, surely u as the employee is not spared!

In fact, u probably be force selling your condo first before ur boss does on his!

[Ringo33]

wealth of a person is not measure by the size of the house or the car they drive because we all know that many people in Singapore are leveraging themselves to their neck just to maintain a certain lifestyle.

condo quantum is small and shock in interest rate can easily be cover by rental and pool of condo buyers is also much larger because there are no restriction on PR or foreigners

If you look at the chart, condo prices already started to cool, while landed prices are still going crazy, all are thinking that 20K new citizens are carrot head loaded with money and no brain.

reason why condo price will not be affect that much because condo market already started to cool down, while landed property owners are still chasing after the bubble.

Just look that the pattern of the chart in 1997 and then look at the current chart. notice any similarity?

BUBBLE is coming. if you buy now, you will regret for the next 15 years.

[proper-t]

If you look at the chart, condo prices already started to cool, while landed prices are still going crazy, all are thinking that 20K new citizens are carrot head loaded with money and no brain.

Looks like someone else also thinks that way, that's why he is calling for restrictions on new citizens

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

Just look that the pattern of the chart in 1997 and then look at the current chart. notice any similarity?

BUBBLE is coming. if you buy now, you will regret for the next 15 years.

May I remind you that during the crash of 1997/8, the percentage of non-landed owners who had to sell off at distress prices was more than double that of landed owners. So, if you still subscribe to your view that the pattern is repeating itself, good luck to non-landed owners if a crash actually occurs.

[Blue]

wealth of a person is not measure by the size of the house or the car they drive because we all know that many people in Singapore are leveraging themselves to their neck just to maintain a certain lifestyle.

condo quantum is small and shock in interest rate can easily be cover by rental and pool of condo buyers is also much larger because there are no restriction on PR or foreigners

If you look at the chart, condo prices already started to cool, while landed prices are still going crazy, all are thinking that 20K new citizens are carrot head loaded with money and no brain.

reason why condo price will not be affect that much because condo market already started to cool down, while landed property owners are still chasing after the bubble.

Just look that the pattern of the chart in 1997 and then look at the current chart. notice any similarity?

BUBBLE is coming. if you buy now, you will regret for the next 15 years.

Talk is cheap. In fact, it is costless to u. U shld change line to become Fortune Teller since u r so confident in your prophecies. Probably your backup plan to support ur MM condo once shit hits the fan and your landed boss fries your cuttlefish.

[kuul]

over leveraged landed property owner better watch out, the era of cheap loan is coming to an end soon. When the music stop, all hell will break lose, seller will flood the market looking for buyers and white knights, while genuine home buyers will disappear and vultures will appear

In the forum, it is easy to talk about I want to buy this and that etc, when shit hits the fans, everyone will say wait wait wait etc. Action speaks louder than word.

If you have no holding power, better downgrade now. dont listen to the 50 years old story about FH landed supply is limited etc because at the current price, no one can justify living in one unless you own a FULLY PAID UP landed, or you belongs to the RICHIE RICH CLUB. For investment, there not much more upside dude to ABSD, LTV and RISING interest rate.

If you mati mati want to cling on to landed for the next generation, make sure you keep those which people will die to live in, not something that is located in the middle of some very narrow and congested road with no carpark.

If you dont believe, just look at GOLD, supply is limited, world population is increasing, every country is buying gold to hedge against inflation. but look at where the gold price is heading now. Why? because it has hit the price ceiling and there are better opportunity out there to make money.

Always remember this buying landed, timing is very important, if you buy now, I double confirm you will regret for the next 15 years.

If you're talking abt those highly leveraged landed owners, I would agree there's some risk at this point in time. Then again, I doubt there are many such owners. Today's strict bank policies do not allow such scenarios. Most landed owners DO have holding power and hence will not be easily flustered by any corrections. I'm not saying landed will be totally unaffected. It all depends on how badly affected the rest of the market will be. Barring any crisis, if the condos,etc drop by a mere 5-10% landed will be minimally affected. In the event of a major crisis where the condos crash 40-50%, landed will of cos be dragged in. It's all about supply and demand.
We are talking about short to medium term here. In the long term, all properties will appreciate and for landed, even more..
As for gold, I dont think it is dead yet. No, not yet. It is merely taking a breather. I foresee another rally in 2013.

[Ringo33]

If you're talking abt those highly leveraged landed owners, I would agree there's some risk at this point in time. Then again, I doubt there are many such owners. Today's strict bank policies do not allow such scenarios. Most landed owners DO have holding power and hence will not be easily flustered by any corrections. I'm not saying landed will be totally unaffected. It all depends on how badly affected the rest of the market will be. Barring any crisis, if the condos,etc drop by a mere 5-10% landed will be minimally affected. In the event of a major crisis where the condos crash 40-50%, landed will of cos be dragged in. It's all about supply and demand.
We are talking about short to medium term here. In the long term, all properties will appreciate and for landed, even more..
As for gold, I dont think it is dead yet. No, not yet. It is merely taking a breather. I foresee another rally in 2013.

thats definitely not the case.

[CondoSeeker2012]

thats definitely not the case.

What's the difference between apartment and condominium in this graph?

[Ringo33]

Talk is cheap. In fact, it is costless to u. U shld change line to become Fortune Teller since u r so confident in your prophecies. Probably your backup plan to support ur MM condo once shit hits the fan and your landed boss fries your cuttlefish.

you are absolutely right. Talk is cheap, especially in forum like this. So please spare us from all that BS about you and your landed property

[proper-t]

thats definitely not the case.

You certainly like to flaunt this chart. Please explain to readers here your statement below (especially the part in red), in relation to the chart. I crop it BIG in case you are colour blind. Can you tell all here which segments dropped the most in 2000 & 2008 and enlighten all of us here how you interpret charts and info which you blatantly and continually abuse.

And IIRC, the interest rate for during 2000 and 2008 were pretty stable, however we did see a massive price correction of landed property during both period, which I believe DSR for landed owners were clearly <50%.

[Rosy]

The higher it goes, the harder it falls.

I am not sure how accurate this graph is. Every segment falls to the same level during every downcycle.

[Rosy]

For landed, detached always outperformed terrace and semi d.

[proper-t]

The higher it goes, the harder it falls.

The same can be applied to someone's ego here......

[Rosy]

Based on the graph alone, detached will fall the most in percentage in the next cycle.

Next downcycle could possibly bottom at around 170-180(mid 2010 price)

[proper-t]

Based on the graph alone, detached will fall the most in percentage in the next cycle.

Next downcycle could possibly bottom at around 170-180

Yes, the cycle goes up and down but the key questions you should be asking yourself :

1. What is the possibility of a downturn happening given the current interest rate and economic situation? If you study the entire ppi chart, the longest upward cycle was about 10 years from 1986 to 1996.

2. If a fall comes, will the fall be a hard or soft landing? What steps are the govt taking?

3. We all know that price goes up and down but how many will actually be affected and forced to sell at distressed prices during the down cycle and which segment is most at risk?

Lastly, read this article by Loanguru...the statistics are very interesting :

http://blog.loanguru.com.sg/1082/3-g...quisition.html

[Ringo33]

You cant blame people for living in denial, "This time is always different" until the shit hits the fan.

[proper-t]

You cant blame people for living in denial, "This time is always different" until the shit hits the fan.

Hmmm, it appears from your statement then that a lot of people in the threads below are living in denial. Why don't you enlighten them with your words of 'wisdom'

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=12285

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15176

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=17145

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=17169

Btw, Are you related to Mr B or DNNCB ? At least one forummer seems to think so.

Reminds me of TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT MR B..

[Ringo33]

Wow, landed property sure can make you lots of money.
Detached house, Sentosa Cove 13,433sqft

Bought 2012-12-20 1,973psf
Sold 2013-03-06 2,084psf

Profit $1,491,063
Annualized profit 30.1%

er.....but wait....who is paying for the SSD?


16% x 28,000,000 = $4.48m
3% - 5400 stamp duties = $789,600
Total loss $5,269,600
Annualized loss 95%


Yeah, landed property owner sure got holding power....perhaps er losing power

[proper-t]

Who is cherry picking now? Unfortunately, cherry pick also don't know how to pick properly. This just shows how little the person knows about Singapore regulations and the property market in general.

Of all properties, choose Sentosa property which we all know that foreigners/PRs are eligible to buy with fast track approval.

Do you also know that under some circumstances, foreigners need not pay SSD when they dispose of their properties in Singapore.

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=10204

Seller's stamp duty (SSD) for residential properties is exempted for sellers/transferors under the following scenarios:–

• Licensed housing developers who are governed under the Housing Developers (Control and Licensing) Act need not pay SSD when selling residential properties developed by them.
• Public authorities in exercising their functions and duties need not pay SSD when selling residential properties, e.g. Housing & Development Board (HDB), Jurong Town Corporation (JTC).
• Residential property owners need not pay SSD when their properties are acquired by the Government under the Land Acquisitions Act.
• Residential property owners need not pay SSD when selling their residential properties due to bankruptcy or involuntary winding up.
• Foreigners need not pay SSD when they have to sell their residential properties as required under the Residential Properties Act.

Are you absolutely certain that this seller paid seller stamp duty and incurred a loss?

Wow, landed property sure can make you lots of money.
Detached house, Sentosa Cove 13,433sqft

Bought 2012-12-20 1,973psf
Sold 2013-03-06 2,084psf

Profit $1,491,063
Annualized profit 30.1%

er.....but wait....who is paying for the SSD?


16% x 28,000,000 = $4.48m
3% - 5400 stamp duties = $789,600
Total loss $5,269,600
Annualized loss 95%


Yeah, landed property owner sure got holding power....perhaps er losing power

[Ringo33]

proper-T

with this quote of yours

Foreigners need not pay SSD when they have to sell their residential properties as required under the Residential Properties Act.

Are you implying that foreigners can buy and sell landed property at Sentosa Cove without having to pay SSD because of the ACT, while Singaporeans cant do the same?

[proper-t]

proper-T

with this quote of yours


Are you implying that foreigners can buy and sell landed property at Sentosa Cove without having to pay SSD because of the ACT, while Singaporeans cant do the same?

I am not implying anything. Its all written in the IRAS guidelines and Singapore statutes and whoever it is applicable to. Go read up on the IRAS and residential property act. In the meantime, please answer my question :


Are you absolutely certain that this seller paid seller stamp duty and incurred a loss?

[Ringo33]

I am not implying anything. Its all written in the IRAS guidelines and Singapore statutes and whoever it is applicable to. Go read up on the IRAS and residential property act. In the meantime, please answer my question :


Are you absolutely certain that this seller paid seller stamp duty and incurred a loss?

Are you absolutely certain that seller doesn't have to pay SSD?

[proper-t]

Are you absolutely certain that seller doesn't have to pay SSD?

You are the one claiming that seller incurred SSD and made a loss not me? Shouldn't you back up your statement?

I merely showed the possibility that he may not have needed to pay the SSD.

Its not my fault if you can't back up your own statements.

[Ringo33]

You are the one claiming that seller incurred SSD and made a loss not me? Shouldn't you back up your statement?

I merely showed the possibility that he may not have needed to pay the SSD.

Its not my fault if you can't back up your own statements.

Are you absolutely sure that this seller did loss money after selling this property?

[proper-t]

Are you absolutely sure that this seller did loss money after selling this property?

Huh? When did I ever make such a statement? Why are you thinking that I made such a statement or am of the opinion that "seller did loss money after selling this property"


Its not my fault if you can't express yourself properly.

[hopeful]

interesting case,
if buyer is singaporean citizen, then renounce citizenship, will then be force to sell (within 10 years?). but this is sentosa cove le, foreigner can buy landed, so this buyer no need to sell

from
http://www.lawhub.com.sg/articles/re...ntial-pro.html
even if inherit, also given 10 years to sell.

also from the same article:
However, foreigners are allowed by the Act to accept landed residential property as security for a loan. In exercising the power of sale, the foreign mortgagee is allowed to sell the property only to Singapore citizens or government approved purchasers.

[Blue]

you are absolutely right. Talk is cheap, especially in forum like this. So please spare us from all that BS about you and your landed property

Put your $$$ where your mouth is which is $5K to prove that I am BSing.

[Ringo33]

Put your $$$ where your mouth is which is $5K to prove that I am BSing.

honestly, do you actually think that forummers here are so dumb that they cant tell who is lying and who is bragging?

You came to this forum to brag about your stupid utility bill for landed property. I challenge you to prove if, you cant then you try to counter challenge me to a 5K bet for god know what. why dont you challenge me with 10K 50K or 100K since talking in forums is free.

perhaps we could do 10b bet since qing ming is around the corner.

[Ringo33]

Those who are over leveraged on landed property better watch out. Make sure you have got enough savings to ride through the storm.

Mortgage rates in Singapore on the way up


http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...e-way-20130329

[proper-t]

To all wondering about loan quantum and debt service capability of each segment of borrowers, read this from loanguru.....very interesting write-up based on actual data as at 3Q 2012. Leave it to readers here to draw their own conclusions.

http://blog.loanguru.com.sg/1082/3-g...quisition.html

[Ringo33]

Unfortunately, there are no evidence that landed property are immune to price correction even if they have strong holding power. Perhaps to the rich, they can afford to lose, while those no so rich, are just clinging on to their landed. I remember reading some article about some landed property owners seeking financial assistance. Perhaps the thought of down grading is just to humiliating for some people, or perhaps some might be wearing too big a shoe for themselves.


Dont be fool by the loanguru article, during the crisis no holding power will prevent landed property from falling. As you can see from historical price movement.