Offer Price To Seller

[TravieJackie]

I am a newbie and am eyeing a unit now. I am just wondering what is the norm to offer? I know there's no fixed answers to this but after surveying the area etc. I think the fair price is about 17% below the asking price. Is this too low for a start?

Don't shoot me coz I'm a newbie.

[Astronotus oscellatus]

Depends on how much u want it.

If die die must buy cos feng shui.good etc...then buy without bargaining.

If lukewarm, try asking for last year's price.

If dun really want it dun offer.

[thomastansb]

If it is an old project (> 15 years), still got chance at 10% below asking price. But if newer project, I don't think so.

Has this project TOP? If got rental, then I think don't waste time. No one is going to sell to you.

I am a newbie and am eyeing a unit now. I am just wondering what is the norm to offer? I know there's no fixed answers to this but after surveying the area etc. I think the fair price is about 17% below the asking price. Is this too low for a start?

Don't shoot me coz I'm a newbie.

[Arcachon]

All depends on the seller whether serious or not.

If seller need to sell, then due to what?

Due to divorce, cannot pay mortgage, need money for other better investment........

[pool100]

If the general market sentiments is that a correction is coming, then I foresee a lot of sellers will join the market. All is needed is a few desperate sales to start a price reversal.

[Lord Anus]

If the general market sentiments is that a correction is coming, then I foresee a lot of sellers will join the market. All is needed is a few desperate sales to start a price reversal.

Think most of the borderline investors / desperate sellers have already been weeded out sometime around the CM4 or CM5 period.... The players remaining after that have the ability to hold long long, even without good rental yield for many of them, and some without even any rental income at all.

That is why we are seeing an even tighter supply of resale condos now.

The Govt played it wrong - most of the investors holding residential properties now have taken their properties off the market. They are NOT going to sell anytime soon, and definitely not at fire sale prices, as any replacement property(s) will cost them substantially more in taxes (stamp duties).

This is the unintended effect of the latest CM.

[pool100]

Think most of the borderline investors / desperate sellers have already been weeded out sometime around the CM4 or CM5 period.... The players remaining after that have the ability to hold long long, even without good rental yield for many of them, and some without even any rental income at all.

That is why we are seeing an even tighter supply of resale condos now.

The Govt played it wrong - most of the investors holding residential properties now have taken their properties off the market. They are NOT going to sell anytime soon, and definitely not at fire sale prices, as any replacement property(s) will cost them substantially more in taxes (stamp duties).

This is the unintended effect of the latest CM.

Agree that based on current climate, it'll be a stalemate between sellers and buyers.

But when we have a sharp correction in the stock markets, when investment yields become negative (assuming interest rates will start to inch up after 2014) with ever-increasing supply in next 2 years, there will be a lot of sellers with no buyers. I can almost assure you that this scenario will come one day. This property bull has been long-extended. It's about time for a good correction soon.

[Lord Anus]

Agree that based on current climate, it'll be a stalemate between sellers and buyers.

But when we have a sharp correction in the stock markets, when investment yields become negative (assuming interest rates will start to inch up after 2014) with ever-increasing supply in next 2 years, there will be a lot of sellers with no buyers. I can almost assure you that this scenario will come one day. This property bull has been long-extended. It's about time for a good correction soon.

When that happens, govt will likely remove all CMs to stimulate the property market. Remember 2006? 10% downpayment was all that is needed. There was also deferred payments galore.

The govt has vested interest in high property prices. They are the biggest landlords, you'd be blind not to see it. No matter how they deny it, they would hate to sell land cheaply.

Throw in other factors like the 6.9m population target and there we go.

[pool100]

When that happens, govt will likely remove all CMs to stimulate the property market. Remember 2006? 10% downpayment was all that is needed. There was also deferred payments galore.

The govt has vested interest in high property prices. They are the biggest landlords, you'd be blind not to see it. No matter how they deny it, they would hate to sell land cheaply.

Throw in other factors like the 6.9m population target and there we go.

I agree with what you're saying but prices will almost guaranteed have to stop rising. Tharman said that himself. Gahment will do whatever they can to make sure they still have a chance in 2016.

Buying a property is important. Buying a property at the right point in a property cycle is more important.

[Sam88]

I agree with what you're saying but prices will almost guaranteed have to stop rising. Tharman said that himself. Gahment will do whatever they can to make sure they still have a chance in 2016.

Buying a property is important. Buying a property at the right point in a property cycle is more important.

I hope u are young. loan tenure drops every year. don't be surprise cm8, govt say 40% down for condo. look at car loan now.

[KopKing]

I agree with bro that the govt played it wrong..CMs only make the market harder to fall. Property is not stocks and they dont behave like stocks.

It is not a stalemate , it just change the mix of property investors.only real buyers wil suffer.

[eng81157]

there's always URA's data to rely upon.

[Rysk]

I am a newbie and am eyeing a unit now. I am just wondering what is the norm to offer? I know there's no fixed answers to this but after surveying the area etc. I think the fair price is about 17% below the asking price. Is this too low for a start?

Don't shoot me coz I'm a newbie.

In pty mkt.. we can't say how many % below the asking price is fair price..

Asking price is asking price.. some asking high while some asking low..

You should say.. how many % below the last transacted or recent market price.. that's more precise..

[pool100]

I hope u are young. loan tenure drops every year. don't be surprise cm8, govt say 40% down for condo. look at car loan now.

I'm won't be surprised and it could happen. But I'm not going to jump in now because of this fear. Will prefer to see how the slow down in transaction volumes affect the prices. Historically, when volume falls, prices will almost always come down too. I'll rather pay more upfront and get a good price than rush to buy something and get stuck later.

[leesg123]

Think most of the borderline investors / desperate sellers have already been weeded out sometime around the CM4 or CM5 period.... The players remaining after that have the ability to hold long long, even without good rental yield for many of them, and some without even any rental income at all.

That is why we are seeing an even tighter supply of resale condos now.

The Govt played it wrong - most of the investors holding residential properties now have taken their properties off the market. They are NOT going to sell anytime soon, and definitely not at fire sale prices, as any replacement property(s) will cost them substantially more in taxes (stamp duties).

This is the unintended effect of the latest CM.

I agree with you. Yup, not selling, unless is double my purchase price.

[leesg123]

I'm won't be surprised and it could happen. But I'm not going to jump in now because of this fear. Will prefer to see how the slow down in transaction volumes affect the prices. Historically, when volume falls, prices will almost always come down too. I'll rather pay more upfront and get a good price than rush to buy something and get stuck later.

Yes, you are right, when volume low, price will drop. but would one be able to get that unit on offer in the market? remember volume is low, so not many people selling. definitely there will be 1 or 2 sellers who need to cash out due to emergency. problem is will one get that unit or not. will be snap up in no time. but unfortunately, it does affect the valuation.

[thomastansb]

CM7 just killed off the resale actually. Just go for new launch easier to buy.

If I have 2 properties now. One for rental, one for own stay. I can't sell my own stay. I can't sell my rental off either because I can't buy back unless CM7 is removed but who knows how long will CM7 be there for?

So unless I receive an offer at least 15% above last transacted, I won't sell. Even above 15%, I will have to seriously consider because I can't buy back. Don't forget, rental is very strong now and is expected to stay strong for the next 2 - 3 years. Interest rate is going to be low as well. And there is no guarantee that prices will drop or rental will drop or interest will go up after 3 years. I wouldn't take the risk if I only have 1 property to rent.

[Xan]

CM7 just killed off the resale actually. Just go for new launch easier to buy.

If I have 2 properties now. One for rental, one for own stay. I can't sell my own stay. I can't sell my rental off either because I can't buy back unless CM7 is removed but who knows how long will CM7 be there for?

So unless I receive an offer at least 15% above last transacted, I won't sell. Even above 15%, I will have to seriously consider because I can't buy back. Don't forget, rental is very strong now and is expected to stay strong for the next 2 - 3 years. Interest rate is going to be low as well. And there is no guarantee that prices will drop or rental will drop or interest will go up after 3 years. I wouldn't take the risk if I only have 1 property to rent.

Buying back already cost me 7% ABSD and 25% cash payment, shorter loan tenure.
To sell only 15% above last transact? Don't waste my time.

[eng81157]

Yes, you are right, when volume low, price will drop. but would one be able to get that unit on offer in the market? remember volume is low, so not many people selling. definitely there will be 1 or 2 sellers who need to cash out due to emergency. problem is will one get that unit or not. will be snap up in no time. but unfortunately, it does affect the valuation.

sorry but i believe well-heeled property agents would be the ones snapping such fire sales unit up first.

[Xan]

I'm won't be surprised and it could happen. But I'm not going to jump in now because of this fear. Will prefer to see how the slow down in transaction volumes affect the prices. Historically, when volume falls, prices will almost always come down too. I'll rather pay more upfront and get a good price than rush to buy something and get stuck later.

I have a friend, self proclaimed expert in property who gave me the same advice in 2005. "Why rush in to buy? Now plenty of vacant units, should wait for price correction"
In the end, he wait and wait and wait, till he buay tahan, took his first plunge in 2011 to buy his 1.4mil property, which he could hv paid half if he bought in 2005.
The point is, buy when you are financial ready and comfortable, patience doesn't always win the race.

[Shanhz]

I am a newbie and am eyeing a unit now. I am just wondering what is the norm to offer? I know there's no fixed answers to this but after surveying the area etc. I think the fair price is about 17% below the asking price. Is this too low for a start?

Don't shoot me coz I'm a newbie.

if landed, then more difficult to have a "mkt price"

for regular dvp of condos, sure got last done price. i would get the average of last 10 done prices of similar unit size, then based on the average give an offer with slight discount. be reasonable then can talk.

of coz if you are out to pick up fire sales, the equation will be different.

[pool100]

I have a friend, self proclaimed expert in property who gave me the same advice in 2005. "Why rush in to buy? Now plenty of vacant units, should wait for price correction"
In the end, he wait and wait and wait, till he buay tahan, took his first plunge in 2011 to buy his 1.4mil property, which he could hv paid half if he bought in 2005.
The point is, buy when you are financial ready and comfortable, patience doesn't always win the race.

Back in 2005, we were coming out of a base in the property cycle on the back of depressed prices in 2002-2004.

Now, in my opinion, and I might be wrong, we're on the other side of the cycle.

Are you saying that one should just buy without any consideration? And do you think that now is a good time to buy when there is a very real possibility that prices will fall in the coming months?

[TravieJackie]

It's a 5 year old project. Own stay.

Don't know real reason why they are selling. Agent says to move to bigger place.

Last transaction was end last year and a unit almost twice its size. Similar sized unit was sold mid last year.

There's a new project around. So how many per cent below new project and how many per cent below last yeat transaction? Or rather offer same as last year's transaction?

[Shanhz]

It's a 5 year old project. Own stay.

Don't know real reason why they are selling. Agent says to move to bigger place.

Last transaction was end last year and a unit almost twice its size. Similar sized unit was sold mid last year.

There's a new project around. So how many per cent below new project and how many per cent below last yeat transaction? Or rather offer same as last year's transaction?

very few transactions. hard to be rational about it. go with your feelings esp since own stay.

[Xan]

Back in 2005, we were coming out of a base in the property cycle on the back of depressed prices in 2002-2004.

Now, in my opinion, and I might be wrong, we're on the other side of the cycle.

Are you saying that one should just buy without any consideration? And do you think that now is a good time to buy when there is a very real possibility that prices will fall in the coming months?

But in 2005, not many knows we were out from the baseline of property cycle and many continue to believe price will correct further. That's y there are so many vacant units despite TOP at that time.
Was with my uncle to view the quartz in 2006. He was quoted 550k for a 3 bedder. He show the agent ya ya attitude and tell the agent to call him only if the price is below 500k. Now, see what happens.
Can't deny now situation are much more complex given the current CMs.
If u hv waited for years, it doesn't really matter if u wait for another few more months.
Of cos must buy with considerations. I believe u should hv done your due diligence in comparing projects to projects.

[eng81157]

It's a 5 year old project. Own stay.

Don't know real reason why they are selling. Agent says to move to bigger place.

Last transaction was end last year and a unit almost twice its size. Similar sized unit was sold mid last year.

There's a new project around. So how many per cent below new project and how many per cent below last yeat transaction? Or rather offer same as last year's transaction?

try using transactions in nearby developments that have similar sized/age units and use

[leftfield]

very few transactions. hard to be rational about it. go with your feelings esp since own stay.

I agree. For own stay, it's a lot harder to rationalize. If this is the only property u have, buy cheap, buy expensive also like that since u need a roof over your head anyway.

Pay what you can afford and if you really like the place, you will be willing to pay that premium more.

Buying a place for own stay is a more emotional decision rather than a rational one...

[pool100]

But in 2005, not many knows we were out from the baseline of property cycle and many continue to believe price will correct further. That's y there are so many vacant units despite TOP at that time.
Was with my uncle to view the quartz in 2006. He was quoted 550k for a 3 bedder. He show the agent ya ya attitude and tell the agent to call him only if the price is below 500k. Now, see what happens.
Can't deny now situation are much more complex given the current CMs.
If u hv waited for years, it doesn't really matter if u wait for another few more months.
Of cos must buy with considerations. I believe u should hv done your due diligence in comparing projects to projects.

The situation is indeed complex. The days of big capital gains over short periods are probably over. Will need to have long horizon timeframe of 10 years at least IMO.

[Xan]

The situation is indeed complex. The days of big capital gains over short periods are probably over. Will need to have long horizon timeframe of 10 years at least IMO.

Absolutely right!
Some will be out of the game if they feel insecurity in their job prospect or without strong financial backing. Buying PC becomes a long term timeframe projection and consideration.
For the next few months, we will be in a game: tug of war.
Buyers don't want to buy and seller don't want to sell. Resale stagnant.
See who buay dong then one party gotta give in.
New launch continue to see healthy sign as long as its at affordable quantum and near amenities. Buyers will continue to buy thru proxy to avoid absd.
Developer not inclined to reduce price, but will be cautious in their bidding.
I also hope there's a slight correction, hope to get a 2 bedder with some price correction.

[TravieJackie]

Yes. Own stay for seller and own stay for us. But we think fair value is about 10% below asking.