Land Storm is Coming!!!

[proper-t]

I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.

Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.

Ringo33, you really know how to 'please' your 'fans'. Please carry on with your posts.

Since we are on the subject, can you please clarify on your post below:

new citizen or not, they are all included in the household income report and saying new citizen are all rich and dumb can only be an assumption, not something that is worth discussing or debating unless you have numbers to show.

Please let readers know what assumption you are making about new citizens when you are calling for restrictions on them to buy landed property in the thread you started below?

If, in your view, they are not rich and dumb and landed market is going to crash, won't they stay away from buying landed? Why call for restrictions then?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

Should government impose restriction on ownership of landed property to prevent individual from land hogging and new citizens using citizenship to profiteer on landed property.

[Ringo33]

I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.

Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.

Obviously you are making a baseless assumption that new citizen are wealthy and they will buy regardless of price. do you have facts to support your statement that new citizens are all rushing to buy landed property instead of HDB or Condo?

As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side

[Ringo33]

Ringo, if its just recently, I believe you will be able to quickly quote the respective transactions that showed weakness. And since you mentioned `some', you MUST have seen at least 2 or even 3 transactions to prove the point. So besides your beloved charts, maybe you could quote those examples for us to analyze?

Thx!

Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.

So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.

[proper-t]

For a moment there, we thought you had abandoned your 'fans' here.

Isn't it very telling to all readers here that when called upon to back up your statements with substantive data, you rely on such 'mature' methods of rebuttal such as telling people to prove their statements instead or refer them to URA to check and draw their own conclusions.

Please do continue. You are doing an excellent job so far of growing your 'fan' base.

You are aware that I will always have the last word as you neither have the courage or intellect to counter me. This is proving to be very entertaining indeed.

[Jaykj]

Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.

So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.

C'mon Ringo, GPGT, NPNT. You are the master of copying & pasting the same charts. Why don't you back up your assertion this time with real, new/ fresh facts for readers here to analyse? The charts & income reports are stale and besides, actual current transactions that shows price weakness will indeed prove your point more than historical date and trying to predict the future with income reports vs price level of properties.

Since you have tred so hard to prove your point, wouldn't it be better to quote those recent transactions you noted and shut us up once and for all? You are strange right? Now that you have prove, you don't want to show .....

[Ringo33]

C'mon Ringo, GPGT, NPNT. You are the master of copying & pasting the same charts. Why don't you back up your assertion this time with real, new/ fresh facts for readers here to analyse? The charts & income reports are stale and besides, actual current transactions that shows price weakness will indeed prove your point more than historical date and trying to predict the future with income reports vs price level of properties.

Since you have tred so hard to prove your point, wouldn't it be better to quote those recent transactions you noted and shut us up once and for all? You are strange right? Now that you have prove, you don't want to show .....

If you wish to make your point, you should learn to dig up some hard facts to back up what you think instead of always expect others to spoon feed you with information. This will only make you look like an armchair critic who make alot of noise and no substance.

If you want facts, here are some for you to think about.

2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29

2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)

[Ringo33]

I have not indicate in my statement that new citizens are all rich and dumb . Why do you interpret as such? On the contrary I did state land price will not crash, which indirectly imply the new purchases could be a good idea.

Please do not twist words R33. I am new here but I sense you are not really interested in discussion. In that case, just leave it as that. Throwing in spicy comments to make yourself look noble is in your own words.. Dumb.

You have clearly argue that current landed property price is sustainable because of influx of rich new citizen, which as you say will take care of demand.

Again, I would like to ask you, do you have facts to show that new citizens are rushing to buy landed property in Singapore? Or is that just an assumption?

[iwantland]

You have clearly argue that current landed property price is sustainable because of influx of rich new citizen, which as you say will take care of demand.

Again, I would like to ask you, do you have facts to show that new citizens are rushing to buy landed property in Singapore? Or is that just an assumption?

As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark

R33, my exact words are as such above. I said affordability not substainability. If you choose not to read or worse do not know how to read , then don't try to rebuttal using phantom assumptions and ' I know it all' mentality. Also my earlier statement was directed at you terming new citizens ' rich and dumb'. First I did not state they are rich nor did I use the demeaning word dumb. I just state that they are of a higher wealth bracket which you and I know is the truth. You ask me prove it with stats. Sorry , I don't think you can prove how smart or dumb a person is.

Again R33, you decide to rebuttal base on assumptions and refusal to acknowledge what is written. I am not here for that purpose. Since this is a forum, information are meant to be shared with others and not you exclusively. So kindly ignore this if you have nothing better to say. ( which I guess you most probably would not and decide to pluck something from the air just for the sake of argument)

Anyways, I do hope you brush up your reading skills. If you can't do that , I am really doubting your ability to analyse.

[iwantland]

__________________
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

By the way R33, I don't disagree with you on all points.
I do agree with you ( surprise surprise) on the above statement. As such this will be my last comment to you ( at least on this topic)

[MLP]

Well said iwanland, this Ringo guy is really stubborn fellow who has eaten plenty of sour grapes.

__________________
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

By the way R33, I don't disagree with you on all points.
I do agree with you ( surprise surprise) on the above statement. As such this will be my last comment to you ( at least on this topic)

Haha, Ringo....Ringo....Don't talk about rubbish crash using insubstantial data below. This data does not show that the property prices have crashed! You can do better than this....

2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29

2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)

[Jaykj]

If you wish to make your point, you should learn to dig up some hard facts to back up what you think instead of always expect others to spoon feed you with information. This will only make you look like an armchair critic who make alot of noise and no substance.

If you want facts, here are some for you to think about.

2012 District 10,11 and 12
Average psf of landed property sold : $1405psf
Average transaction per month : 29

2013 (Jan to Apr)
Average psf of landed property sold : $1273 psf
Average transaction per month : 19 (Jan to Mar)

Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"

From the above....I can rest well . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.

My take is the same, if landed crash, all segments will crash. And secondly, you are a mini Mr B who thinks prices will crash...in this case, Landed

Alright, I will now ignore your posts as I have concluded you are just another MTB who try to present baseless evidence to try to spook ppty investors.

[Rysk]

Information are easily available on URA website, both in terms of transaction volume as well as quantum and size.

So please analyze the information before making cheap remarks like this.

Wow! For one moment.. I tot MR B is back

Cos your style is like MR B..

MR B used to talk BIG BIG saying from this source from that source.. So when ppl asked him to prove it.. TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION MR B tell them go search for themselves.. is everywhere

As at today, I finally know who is the 'real' FOOL

tons in strait times classified & propertyguru....go & ask for it, you will get, 10-20%...
I sold what I need to...only fools still keep now....in next 1-2 yrs, you will know....

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=12285

[iwantland]

Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"

From the above....I can rest well . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.

By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.

[Rysk]

By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.

In this particular topic, I suppose we are referring to "Landed pty" (exclude those strata titled)... no?

[iwantland]

In this particular topic, I suppose we are referring to "Landed pty" (exclude those strata titled)... no?

We are Rysk, except for selected few who like to pick and choose whatever they can to support their argument.

[Ringo33]

As for affordability, with new citizens of a higher wealth bracket , they could very well cover the demand side ( especially when similar size condo cost far more in the same area for most cases) substainability is the question mark

R33, my exact words are as such above. I said affordability not substainability. If you choose not to read or worse do not know how to read , then don't try to rebuttal using phantom assumptions and ' I know it all' mentality. Also my earlier statement was directed at you terming new citizens ' rich and dumb'. First I did not state they are rich nor did I use the demeaning word dumb. I just state that they are of a higher wealth bracket which you and I know is the truth. You ask me prove it with stats. Sorry , I don't think you can prove how smart or dumb a person is.

Again R33, you decide to rebuttal base on assumptions and refusal to acknowledge what is written. I am not here for that purpose. Since this is a forum, information are meant to be shared with others and not you exclusively. So kindly ignore this if you have nothing better to say. ( which I guess you most probably would not and decide to pluck something from the air just for the sake of argument)

Anyways, I do hope you brush up your reading skills. If you can't do that , I am really doubting your ability to analyse.

Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.

And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.

[Ringo33]

Finally, you bare your sources to show us how you arrived at your conclusion that only Landed will crash and not other segments. I waited and waited, enduring sleepless nights wondering "Does Ringo knows something that landed owners do not know? Is landed really going to crash and burn while only non-landed will survive?"

From the above....I can rest well . Boys and girls, the show has ended. Ringo, you can go on and dream your dreams.

My take is the same, if landed crash, all segments will crash. And secondly, you are a mini Mr B who thinks prices will crash...in this case, Landed

Alright, I will now ignore your posts as I have concluded you are just another MTB who try to present baseless evidence to try to spook ppty investors.

Please do not try to summarize what I have written in this thread when you dont even understand the true meaning of asset bubble.

The above transaction numbers are only just to show you sign of landed property market softening, and you are most welcome to dispute that will your own findings.

The more concerning point I have made in this thread is actually the price level of landed property vs household income.

And please do try to associate me with Mr. B because it doesnt prove anything. If you disagree with what I said, please make a case for yourself by giving us some numbers. Mr B doesnt mean anything in this thread.

[proper-t]

Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.

And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.

Can you please enlighten readers here what was your assumption when you started this thread below on restricting new citizens from buying landed and posted the statement below?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...t=16809&page=2

For wealthy new citizens holding on to Singapore citizenship, they can easily go back to their home country and live as an expat, while at the same time continue to use Singapore as a safe heaven to park their wealth and bring up their children through our school system.

Should we allow these new citizens to own multiple landed property while they are not even living in Singapore?

[proper-t]

First TS says correction

Dont need to assume, the URA transaction volume of landed property are open information. Recently I am starting to see some sign of correction

Definition of market correction- http://www.investinganswers.com/fina...orrection-2491

A market correction refers to a price decline of at least 10% of any security or market index following a temporary upswing in market prices

Now he says softening....

Please do not try to summarize what I have written in this thread when you dont even understand the true meaning of asset bubble.

The above transaction numbers are only just to show you sign of landed property market softening, and you are most welcome to dispute that will your own findings.

The more concerning point I have made in this thread is actually the price level of landed property vs household income.

And please do try to associate me with Mr. B because it doesnt prove anything. If you disagree with what I said, please make a case for yourself by giving us some numbers. Mr B doesnt mean anything in this thread.

Rysk, you are spot on !

Wow! For one moment.. I tot MR B is back

Cos your style is like MR B..

MR B used to talk BIG BIG saying from this source from that source.. So when ppl asked him to prove it..TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION MR B tell them go search for themselves.. is everywhere

As at today, I finally know who is the 'real' FOOL

[Ringo33]

By the way Jayki, the data for 2013 has 50% transacted for strata titled.Strip them off and the average price is about 1787
As for 2012, landed ex strata title ave price is at 1709. 33 % transacted for the period are strata titled.
So land price actually increase 4.5%.
I choose not to put strata alongside with landed as they belong to a different classification.
Again, critical details are ignored and for some reason choose not to be disclose.

Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M

When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed

4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.

[iwantland]

Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.

And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.

Still can't read. Sigh. Next please...

[Ringo33]

Still can't read. Sigh. Next please...

might want to consider a different forum.

[proper-t]

might want to consider a different forum.

Not everyone runs to the type of forum you frequent to overcome your disappointment.

I was hoping for some sammyboy type of information. so disappointed

[proper-t]

Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M

When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed

4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.

Hilarious! Not too long ago, TS was trying to insinuate that strata cluster housing is akin to a condo.

So, when taking a swipe at cluster housing owners, its ok to differentiate but when faced with facts that he can't dispute, its not?

actually if you havent notice, even propertyguru doesnt classified cluster house under landed property. They actually put it as condo.

[iwantland]

Another classic example of selective reading. and this just remind me of this video from 90.5FM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M

When comparing landed property rental, people here like to use strata landed housing to justify yield. When comparing psf, they choose to ignore strata landed

4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.

I laugh when I see this. Selective reading indeed quoted from the Master of one. By the way strata titled is not the same as landed.Landed is price on psf of land. Strata is price on psf of buildup. ( I guess most already know that here with the exception of one) If using your logic, then land is indeed underprice as most buildup ( discounting GCB ) are higher than land psf stated in Ura. Thanks for unlocking this hidden gem!

By the way 4.5% increase does not equate to a decrease in price like what you earlier wrote. So great job on shooting your own foot and for being so willing to show us how you did it.

After reading past pages, i see we have a joker here. Hilarious. Don't stop, keep the jokes coming R, you are doing a good job.

[Rysk]

4.5% appreciation? That is barely enough to even hedge against inflation.
Perhaps you could try to compare the price appreciation of 2011 to 2012 since you are at it.

Again sound very much like MR B to me.. Oh I mean TWIST & TURN cum DIVERT ATTENTION EXPERT MR B..

Last time trying very hard to prove that "(S'pore) Pty price is coming down fast" by posting a few transaction at a loss to show ppl that the pty mkt is indeed crashing..
Worst still.. divert attention by posting US pty mtk..China pty mkt..HK..Greece..Spain..London.. all the bad news around the world.. till go MIA

...

[lajia]

wa wa wa....these few thread really keep the forum alive...

So,
1) OCR at 1300-1500psf affordable, or even higher now for some? If it is not afforable, then it will not be sustainable too...why just landed??

2) how can your household income keep up with your property? Your EC from 2008 - 2013 doubled or more, did your salary doubled?? So, condo market going to crash soon? not just landed right??

3) why u keep linking rental to landed? many here already say they mostly buy for own stay. Of course, there are ppl with different needs and they rented out even though the rate might not be good. So? how many of these actually depends on the rental? how many % of 70K + unit rented out?? 7%....so if rental crash, landed market also crash? So one day landed rental of a terrace (OCR) will be less than a 2bed room condo (OCR). right? wouldn't the market adjust it self as some might think it is more worthwhile to rent terrace now? The market will adjust itself as supply and demand changes....

Your nonsense still holds?

Please dont not divert this discussion into comparing the english meaning of affordability and sustainability. In order for any property market to be sustainable it will have to be affordable, or else it will risk becoming a bubble. Please do read up the explaination about asset bubble, it will help you to connect affordability and sustainability.

And like I said again, using rich new citizen buying landed property regardless of price level to support your case is just an assumption unless you have some numbers to show us.

[Rysk]

Even though the Stubborn Head TS just CANNOT MAKE IT..

But I just hope that he will stick on to his arguement.. so that we will have a new MR B to keep this forum alive..

Maybe I missed MR B too much..

[star]

One of my colleagues is still waiting for property to crash. He says people buying now are crazy later interest rate go up all die. Bah bah bah etc.
btw he is 55yrs old. Another 10years if market crash but also can't buy because he will be 65yrs old. Bank not lending.
Btw people still wait for crash but how long will it come maybe 10 or 20 yrs nobody knows. If always think of crash then buy then no need to buy already because always scare of this and that u can never buy a property. It might not be even crash maybe correction only.
Every year of wait shorten your loan period.

[stl67]

Even though the Stubborn Head TS just CANNOT MAKE IT..

But I just hope that he will stick on to his arguement.. so that we will have a new MR B to keep this forum alive..

Maybe I missed MR B too much..

Actually, if TS has his way, also good for some of us. I really want to buy some more. Onli if bank wants to lend me money. I love landed. I am thinking of buying a big plot and then artificially divide it into 2 parts. The main part of the house is me and my wife. The minor part with maybe a side gate or small parking area for my children. Next time they can stay with us and they have their own privacy/corners like kitchen. So price drop also good lah.

If price continues to go up, next time can sell mah. Both way also can lah. . Most important all the forumers huat. But, I dont think landed price will drop much lah.