Ecopolitan EC

[kane]

are there a lot of first time buyers or single home upgraders in this market? $800psf is a little too much to pay for no?

[delirious]

With all the high and record ec land sales plus developers holding costs etc, we should be seeing even higher prices on all the recent ecs launching after 15 mths unless a real big turn in the market so it aint high especially if you like this location or unless the location that is upcoming is somewhere you are certain you want.

[propertybuyer073]

Is $800 psf ex?

One way of looking at is it is effectively about $770 psf after grants (for first timers who qualify for the full $30,000 grant).

For second timers/ HDB upgraders, they also save indirectly by not paying any resale levy. Should the HDB upgraders decide to buy a new HDB flat, they have to pay a resale levy (up to $55,000).

Looking at the upcoming ECs, they should hover about $800 psf or even more.

Sea Horizon's land cost is about $330 psf and they are expected to sell about $800 psf

The recently awarded ECs in Punggol are awarded at a land cost of more than $350 psf.

It is evident that land cost is increasing. Labour cost is increasing. Construction cost is increasing...

The end result is prices might go up unless there is a severe recession.

Even if prices go down further in the next 1 - 2 years, interest rates might go up and offset any savings from lower property price.

With ECs priced about 20% cheaper than private condos and the availability of grants to new EC buyers as well as no resale levy for HDB upgraders for new EC purchase, I think the demand for ECs will remain strong.

Those that are priced out of the private condo market (more than $1,000 psf)can only turn to the EC market if they want to upgrade.

In addition, EC buyers are not subjected to the new total debt servicing framework. This will also divert some pte condo potential buyers to the EC market.

[NO_7]

Which new sale PC in Punggol with 600m to MRT sold at $1k psf?

[onglai]

In addition, EC buyers are not subjected to the new total debt servicing framework. This will also divert some pte condo potential buyers to the EC market.

i think ec buyers are affected oso.

[propertybuyer073]

Which new sale PC in Punggol with 600m to MRT sold at $1k psf?

In general, ECs are priced about 20% cheaper than pte condo.

I stress the word, in general.

[B]There are some ECs that are priced less than 20% cheaper.

For Eco, one can compare with the Pte Condos (PC) in Punggol, SengKang and even Buangkok.

If we look at the more recent launches like La Fiesta or Jewels, they are priced at least $1,100 psf.

Thus, Eco is more than 30% cheaper but La Fiesta or Jewels are not a good benchmark as they are nearer to MRT.

We have to apply a discount factor to Eco given that Eco is farther from the MRT.

In general, one cannot disagree that ECs are cheaper (especially after incorporating the grants which will lower the psf by about $30 psf).

$800 psf is effectively $770 psf for an EC vs $1,000 - $1,200 psf nowadays for a mass market condo

Ignoring interest, the savings are quite significant - $230,000 to $430,000 (excluding the ABSD that one may has to pay for a PC).

[NO_7]

Not a fair comparison, only see the price r jack up very high.

[rymccondo77]

i think ec buyers are affected oso.

Upgraders (i.e. currently owning a HDB flat and still paying the loan for the HDB flat) who buy ECs from the developers are exempted from the new TDS framework as they must sell their existing HDB flats within 6 months of the TOP of the EC.

For more details, see the Pdf file (go to page 35) found on this URL:

http://sgpropertyagent.com.sg/Impact...0Framework.pdf

[propertybuyer073]

Not a fair comparison, only see the price r jack up very high.

It is sometimes very challenging to find a perfect benchmark.

I can't speak for all EC buyers.

However, I believe they must have reasons to buy ECs like

1. They are concerned that they are/ could priced out of the PC market. Mass market condo nowadays are mostly above $1,000 psf. Most are $1,100 - $1,200 psf.

2. In contrast, EC costs $800 psf or $770 psf after grants. Ex but still more affordable than a PC.

3. For upgraders, they have to cough up the 7% ABSD for a PC, bit not EC.

4. The new TDSR applies to PC, but not EC

In addition, EC has deferred payment scheme.

5. The massive savings from buying EC instead of PC. We are not talking about $100,000 or $200,000 but $500,000 - $600,000.

What can we do with $500,000 - $600,000?


6. Will EC prices come down in the near time? Highly unlikely. This is because land costs are getting even higher - $350 psf to about $420 psf in the recent EC sites. These sites can be launched only 15 months later upon award of tender.

7. In other words, there will likely be no new EC launches for quite some time till end 2014 or early 2015 (after the upcoming EC launches).

I think EC developers can take their time to sell the leftover units as there will still be buyers given that there are likely no new EC launches in the first 9 months next year.

The $$$ question - continue waiting for prices to come down or commit now on concerns that EC prices may go up further?

Another $$$ question - Will there be changes to the EC scheme given that EC buyers enjoy quite a number of perks like grants, no resale levy, no ABSD, no need to be subjected to TDSR framework, deferred payment etc compared to buying a PC?

[star]

New EC above $800psf will be a norm from now on.

[NO_7]

Price are relative to distance from MRT, an EC with 600m to MRT should compare with a PC in the same attribute and not compare with a only 200m to MRT Parc Centros condo.
Parc Centros are sold on average price of $990psf and if its 20% cheaper then an EC of same distance should be selling at $792psf, with an extra 400m distance further away to MRT maybe a 10% premium off the price will be reasonable for an EC like Eco and that is just $693psf on average.

Project ------------PSF
RiverParc ---------678
Prive --------------686
Austville ----------705
Twin Waterfalls --716
Topiary -----------730
Heron Bay --------734
WaterBay ---------740
Esparina ----------750
River Isles --------831
Parc Vera ---------837
Flo Res ------------841
Riversound --------864
Riversail -----------867
A Treasure Trove -909
Boathouse --------917
Parc Centros ------990

[NO_7]

Speaking of land price Eco is not the most expensive EC in SK and Punggol.

Project ------------PPR
RiverParc ---------237
Prive --------------308
Austville ----------320
Twin Waterfalls --270
Topiary -----------295
Heron Bay --------303
WaterBay ---------320
Esparina ----------315
Ecopolitan --------314

[2824]

Lush acres can compare with h2o.
Anyway I guess now is the "golden age" for ECs until the next policy change at least. Which is who knows when aug 18

Is $800 psf ex?

One way of looking at is it is effectively about $770 psf after grants (for first timers who qualify for the full $30,000 grant).

For second timers/ HDB upgraders, they also save indirectly by not paying any resale levy. Should the HDB upgraders decide to buy a new HDB flat, they have to pay a resale levy (up to $55,000).

Looking at the upcoming ECs, they should hover about $800 psf or even more.

Sea Horizon's land cost is about $330 psf and they are expected to sell about $800 psf

The recently awarded ECs in Punggol are awarded at a land cost of more than $350 psf.

It is evident that land cost is increasing. Labour cost is increasing. Construction cost is increasing...

The end result is prices might go up unless there is a severe recession.

Even if prices go down further in the next 1 - 2 years, interest rates might go up and offset any savings from lower property price.

With ECs priced about 20% cheaper than private condos and the availability of grants to new EC buyers as well as no resale levy for HDB upgraders for new EC purchase, I think the demand for ECs will remain strong.

Those that are priced out of the private condo market (more than $1,000 psf)can only turn to the EC market if they want to upgrade.

In addition, EC buyers are not subjected to the new total debt servicing framework. This will also divert some pte condo potential buyers to the EC market.

[yesnomaybe]

Have to factor in time that each EC was launched ... Construction costs have increased.

[NO_7]

Lush acres can compare with h2o.
Anyway I guess now is the "golden age" for ECs until the next policy change at least. Which is who knows when aug 18

H2O take ages to sell due to their high pricing since launch in 2011, but it's by the river with LRT at the door step which is their selling points, after Seletar Mall was announced their sale started picking up again. Their average price is less than $1k Psf which was higher than many other projects at that time. While other later launched projects like RiverIsles, Flo, ATT, Parc Centros, WT, Luxuries, Boathouse r selling very well this project was still moving very slow.

[NO_7]

Have to factor in time that each EC was launched ... Construction costs have increased.

Any info. on the cost?

[propertybuyer073]

There is one factor which you could have overlooked - current market condition/ sentiment.

All the prices which you have indicated are past prices and almost all the units have been sold.

It is just like a share.

If we always compare to the past prices, we will miss many good investment opportunities.

For example, the share price of say Co A was $1 last year. Now it is trading at $1.50. There is no point looking back at the past $1 price.

In accounting, this is called sunk cost.

What is more relevant is the current price and the future prices going forward.

We have to accept the current market price of most mass market condos is at least $1,000 psf.

n

[propertybuyer073]

There is one factor which you could have overlooked - current market condition/ sentiment.

All the prices which you have indicated are past prices and almost all the units have been sold.

It is just like a share.

If we always compare to the past prices, we will miss many good investment opportunities.

For example, the share price of say Co A was $1 last year. Now it is trading at $1.50. There is no point looking back at the past $1 price.

In accounting, this is called sunk cost.

What is more relevant is the current price and the future prices going forward.

We have to accept the current market price of most mass market condos is at least $1,000 psf.

n

[NO_7]

Estimate breakeven PSF PPR ($)
Twin Waterfalls ------536
Waterbay ------------592
Ecopolitan -----------585

[beepbeep]

Estimate breakeven PSF PPR ($)
Twin Waterfalls ------536
Waterbay ------------592
Ecopolitan -----------585

How do you or which formula you use to derive the breakeven figure?

[slackerkoh]

Just a question. Why is this plot of land ( Ecopolitan) only received 3 bids? It is near to MRT and Expressway compare to Lush and H20. More idea in term of convenient.
And also seems like the local developer (CDL, Far east, MCL) seems to favor fernvale plot of land more.

[propertybuyer073]

Just a question. Why is this plot of land ( Ecopolitan) only received 3 bids? It is near to MRT and Expressway compare to Lush and H20. More idea in term of convenient.
And also seems like the local developer (CDL, Far east, MCL) seems to favor fernvale plot of land more.

The no of bids is an indication of interest.

However, we must recognize when the plot of land was open for sale, it was a couple of years back.

The market conditions then could be very different from the market conditions now.

There were quite a number of plots especially ECs available for tender. This may explain why we are seeing a number of upcoming ECs like Lush Acres, Sea Horizon, Sembawang EC, Waterwoods EC (before we can have new ECs later next year/ early 2015).

The demand for EC is expected to be hot (unless there are changes to EC scheme). This explains why we are seeing more and more developers vying for EC sites. This can be seen in several developers vying for a EC plot, whether in Yuan Chin or Punggol and the recent sites being sold at $350 - almost $420 psf.

I think what is more important is the new norm.
As reported in today's Straits Times (Pg 3), new mass market condos will likely be about $1,200 psf and may even hit $1,500 psf.

It is not surprising that subsequent ECs will be likely be sold at $800 psf and more.

Notwithstanding this, ECs are still a good buy considering the many perks of EC such as grants, no resale levy, no ABSD, no need to be subjected to TDSR, about 20% cheaper than current mass market condos, progressive payment ....

This can be seen in the robust sales of ECO. It is about 60% sold on its first day with an average price of less than $800 psf.

I think ECO is still a good deal considering that it is 20% cheaper than most current mass market condos which are more than $1,000 psf (about $1,200 psf for subsequent mass market condos).

[Steff]

Ecopolitan EC remaining units

http://eco-politan-ec.com/ecopolitan-response/

[propertybuyer073]

Thanks for the update.

How about % sold as of today?

It is reasonable to expect the leftover units (after 1st day) will take some time to "move"

[yesnomaybe]

318 sold so far...prices increased by 1% since booking day

www.ecopolitan-EC.name

[yesnomaybe]

Interested buyers call 91087536 for updates

Steff is non-SLP agent who's not core team there

[yesnomaybe]

318 sold so far...prices increased by 1% since booking day

www.ecopolitan-EC.name

323 units sold so far

Call 91087536 for update

[propertybuyer073]

Thanks for the update. Quite commendable results.

I believe more will buy after the launch of Lush Acres as some prospective buyers are adopting a "wait-and-see" attitude preferring to decide after they see the price of Lush Acres and/or their choice Lush Acres units are taken up.

[Carrothead]

Hiya, saw this thread and tot share the decision process for considering Eco and finally making the decision to buy.

1) 2nd Timer status - Given income restrictions, we may not be eligible for ECs in a year or so. Not qualified for BTOs, only PCs may be consideration in future.

2) Loan Financing - To finance new PC as 2nd timer, need to sell flat now and rent 3 yrs to qualify for 80% loan or pay ABSD of 7% upfront or fully repay 1st mortgage, then sell before TOP. TOP units generally >5% higher than launch. Either way, that is 80K to 200K gone. New PC, for 2nd timers, loan limit is 50%, unless you sell your flat to qualify for 80%. TDSR means that for 2nd timers, if you are still servicing existing loan, your max loan will be hit hard.

3) ECO pull - Love the water features and numerous pools. We got an avg number, but managed to avoid the expressway facing units, got a pool facing 3BR Cospace. 2 balconies facing pool, make up for the 10 min leisure walk to MRT. The expressway facing units are not selling well for obvious reasons, which is understandable. Punggol upside is high, as compared to woodlands and Pasir Ris, given the new developments planned. Downside is that PG is getting crowded, though ECO, 2 turns and you are on expressway, and 10 mins you are on a MRT.

4) PC market - Despite cooling measures, PC market is still hot, with prices on upward trend. >$950 PSF is the norm compared with >$800 PSF in the past for sub urban area. We probably can get a PC at the same price, but minus off 400 sq ft to get a 800+ sq ft unit. Of cos, PC can sell much earlier than EC after ABSD expires if market is right.

5) COVs falling - Currently own a resale unit just past our 5yr MOP in Punggol. Near school and LRT but given cooling measures and surplus of BTOs, we are concerned about the price it can fetch given locals less likely to consider resale. Committing to EC allows us to sell within 6mths of TOP to get max 80% loan. We should have a better window to gauge time to sell existing flat. Inflation of 3 to 4 % means valuation price should still hold firm under worst case scenario.

6) EC market - EC is hot. Too hot maybe. But DD > SS. Pissed that developer is launching at a higher than expected PSF. Ours is just under 800 psf, the mid-high range of the 760 to 830 range. However, after ECO, Sea Horizon launching above $800 psf, lush acres delayed launch and agents indicate price will be same if not higher than ECO, even though it is right beside petrol kiosk. After Sea Horizon, will be left with Waterwoods, which certainly wouldn't be cheaper given higher bid price. Then will be long break till end of next year as 15 month ruling kicks in for EC sales. So by then, considering plot bid prices rising rapidly, we may be looking at $850 min PSF range for suburban locations?

7) Garment - Of cos, having said all, Mr Khaw always can come in and throw us off the horse sometimes. Restrict income ceiling for ECs? Limit Plot bids for ECs? Scrap ECs? Anybody's guess. Only thing for sure, is they may cool more but not freeze.

8) Asset bubble burst - Touch wood, if bubble burst, economic crisis, market corrects, unemployment shoots up, loans default, then it could jolt the market and people into their senses. However, given past experiences, I think that would be a perfect storm situation .... though the ppl would be right to then say "I told u so" ...

So given the PSF price, we are probably Carrot-Heads now, but guess time will tell if we are in the future, but anyway we did get the units we loved.... Think Hard Whack Hard I guess ...

[yesnomaybe]

ST young writers harp a lot about over impending large supply of condo units. Yes, this is true.

However, they always fail to mention about the demand situation. As we all know, Singapore has a low birth rate situation and 100,000 people are let into Singapore every year till 2030 to counter our aging society problem. Given the objection of general Singapore public, the local press always downplay this.

So, any suggestion of property market drastic softening I think is overblown.